🚨 Breaking: The NBA is preparing for a massive story accusing #Suns owner Robert Sarver of racism, sexism and sexual harassment in a series of incidents, sources say. With enough evidence to support such claims, there?s a real chance the league would forcibly remove Sarver.
— Jordan Schultz (@Schultz_Report) October 22, 2021
Relatively little news so far, but thought I would start the thread for when/if this all turns into a mess.
League News: Accusations Against Sarver
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10-22-2021, 03:48 PMPelicanidaeLeague News: Accusations Against Sarver
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10-22-2021, 04:01 PMPELICANSFAN
Wow!
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10-22-2021, 04:42 PMPaKwAn
That's a very good news for suns fans!
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10-22-2021, 05:03 PMPelicanidae
Official statement from the Suns: pic.twitter.com/nXTmMwMJsr
— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) October 22, 2021
The fact that the organisation is coming out so staunchly against a story that isn't even released yet makes me feel even more so like whatever it is, is probably true. Or at least contains elements of truth to it.
Big ''thou dost protest too much'' energy from this. -
10-22-2021, 05:06 PMPelicanidae
When Tilman Fertitta traded Chris Paul away and called him the worst contract in sports, he was simply factoring in the risk of CP3 personally getting him banned from the NBA
— sreekar (@sreekyshooter) October 22, 2021 -
10-22-2021, 06:01 PMP_B_&_GWhile I agree that where there's smoke there's fire I generally like to err on the side of innocent until proven guilty...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Because due process and all -
10-23-2021, 02:56 AMPelicanidaeSure, I'm not saying that Sarver should be forced to sell the team on the back of this mildly suspicious PR move :hihi:Quote:
Originally Posted by P_B_&_G
I'm just saying if see smoke and then walk into a room covered in scorch marks and someone runs up to you and says ''I know you probably saw smoke but there is no way that I am associated with this, I swear this was not me, there's documentary evidence that I categorically had nothing to do with the smoke you saw billowing out of this room! Do not rush to judgement!'' you might think that they're being a little over-eager in their denials. -
11-04-2021, 11:42 AMPelicanidae
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...acism-misogyny
And boom goes the dynamite. From the article:
Sarver, of course, denies the accusations but does confess to using that language on at least one occasion:Quote:
Some said the longtime owner fostered an environment in which employees felt they were his property, even once asking one woman whether he "owned" her to determine whether she worked for the Suns.
"The level of misogyny and racism is beyond the pale," one Suns co-owner said about Sarver. "It's embarrassing as an owner."
Said a former Suns basketball executive: "There's literally nothing you could tell me about him from a misogynistic or race standpoint that would surprise me."
Love love love Sarver saying ''the N word has never been a part of my vocabulary'' in a story he is personally telling about a time that he used it. A strange way to ''never'' do something, I guess.Quote:
"On one occasion a player used the N-word to describe the importance of having each others' back," Sarver said through his attorneys. "I responded by saying, 'I wouldn't say n---a, I would say that we're in the foxhole together.' An assistant coach approached me a short time after and told me that I shouldn't say the word, even if I were quoting someone else. I immediately apologized and haven't said it ever again. The N-word has never been a part of my vocabulary."
Aside from Sarver himself, there have been a few other people to push back against these allegations - here's one example:
But the allegations seem to outweigh the defenses by a large margin.Quote:
NBA spokesperson Mike Bass said the league has not "received a complaint of misconduct at the Suns organization through any of our processes, including our confidential workplace misconduct hotline or other correspondence."
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At least a half-dozen Suns staffers recounted to ESPN instances of Sarver hearing a story from a Black player and then using the same language when retelling it, down to the usage of the N-word.
"You're like, 'Whoa! Robert, you can't do that,'" said one former basketball executive. Another former Suns head coach said such instances were commonplace. A Black basketball operations staffer told ESPN he has heard Sarver say the N-word multiple times.
Sarver once used the N-word when trying to explain to a staffer why he preferred hiring Lindsey Hunter over Dan Majerle as head coach in 2013, according to a high-level executive who heard the remark. Hunter was a first-year Suns player development coordinator while Majerle was in his fifth year as a Suns associate head coach.
"These [N-words] need a [N-word]," Sarver told the staffer of his largely Black team, according to the executive.
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In Watson's first year leading the bench in Phoenix, Sarver asked about the state of the organization and where Watson thought it could improve. Watson told Sarver that it suffered from a lack of diversity.
"I don't like diversity," Sarver replied, according to Watson and a basketball operations staffer with knowledge of the interaction.
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Former employees said he asked players about their sex lives and the sexual prowess of their significant others.
"Women have very little value," one female former staffer said she felt. "Women are possessions. And I think we're nowhere close to where he thinks men are."
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When the Suns were recruiting free agent LaMarcus Aldridge in the summer of 2015, the team knew that Aldridge had young children in Texas and that playing near them was appealing. During the recruitment, Sarver remarked to two basketball operations staffers that the Suns needed to have local strippers impregnated by NBA players so those players would have children in the Phoenix area and feel obliged to be closer to them, giving the Suns a potential edge in free agency, the now-former staffers said.
"A lot of the stuff he says is to get a big reaction. And who's going to tell him that he can't?" said one of the former staffers. "He speaks in threats. He likes that awkwardness. He likes people to know that he's in charge. He wants control. He wants control of every situation and every person."
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Said another current staffer: "God no, that's the last place you go. Yeah, definitely don't go to HR with anything." The first former Suns HR rep confirms that this sentiment was common throughout the organization.
"You want to do right by the employee and make sure that they're not getting infringed upon," the first former HR rep said. "But ultimately, you're getting paid by the owner. So you're the police. And there were some times where I told people, 'You know, I'm not gonna tell you this on the record, and we need to go out to the parking lot or someplace, but I think you should sue.'"
When aggrieved workers said they had been considering legal action after being told that the organization would be parting ways with them, two former business operations employees said those people were often offered severance packages in exchange for signing nondisclosure agreements.
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Said one former Suns executive: "All of [the owners] in a different form or fashion would say Robert is a lucky charm in real estate. He's really good at what he does business-wise. ... So his discipline away from the game of basketball is what always pissed me off. Because he wasn't a f---ing dummy. Now, he's a misogynist and a racist, but he wasn't dumb. And he acted like a dummy around the game of basketball. And that was the thing that pissed me off so much because he was smart enough to know better."
"He's not clueless," said another member of the ownership group of Sarver's behavior. "He's doing it because of power."
Seventeen years in, after posting the NBA's second-best record last season at 51-21 and making the NBA Finals for the first time since 1993, Suns employees said Robert Sarver's behavior remains the same.
"It's bittersweet," a co-owner said of the team's resurgent success. "It just doesn't feel good to be involved with him."
The current executive discourages people from working at the Suns and knows others who do the same.
Said another current employee, "If I knew -- and I wish I knew what I was coming into -- I would have never taken the job here. Never."
And the reality is that despite all I've included here, there's tons more in the article that I left out. It's a pretty damning report. -
11-04-2021, 11:53 AMPelicanidae
Also, I shouldn't find it so funny but I do - Steve Kerr randomly being quoted like ''oh man i dunno, that's not the Sarver I knew'' in an article with tons of quotes from people of colour and women.
Wow Steve, you wealthy white man you, I wonder why you mightn't have had quite so many run ins with Sarver as these other people. It really is a mystery. -
11-04-2021, 12:00 PMPelicanidae
Mannnn listen.....Hands and feet would've been thrown pic.twitter.com/bciIay0WDm
— Will Guillory (@WillGuillory) November 4, 2021
Will here talking about one of several sections of the article I didn't quote above -
11-04-2021, 02:14 PMPELICANSFANJames Jones said the same thing though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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11-04-2021, 02:22 PMPelicanidaeYeah, and a handful of others as well - in general, I feel like coaches and high level NBA executives/owners will react in this way. Why? A number of reasons, including the fact that let's be honest, people who can be fired and replaced will oftennot openly speak out against the people employing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Owners will generally try and gloss over it as well because let's be honest again, there's more than one NBA team in the league with similar toxicity levels. Every time one of these ownership scandals happens you can almost sense the tension in the other owners from miles away, because they've all got skeletons. If Mark Cuban wasn't so pally with so much of the media, the Mavericks would be getting raked over the coals as well for the sort of stuff that comes out of there. -
11-04-2021, 04:38 PMPelicanidae
t.co/zDk8QpI927?amp=1
Another update:
Quote:
NBA launches investigation into Phoenix Suns owner Robert Sarver over racism, sexism claims
9:20 PM GMT
Baxter Holmes and Adrian Wojnarowski
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The league's announcement comes in the wake of ESPN publishing an investigative story based on interviews with more than 70 current and former Suns employees who described a sometimes toxic and hostile workplace of racism and sexism during Sarver's 17-year tenure in Phoenix.
Referencing NBA commissioner Adam Silver, one current business operations employee told ESPN, "If the commissioner comes in and investigates to see what the f--- is going on in Phoenix, [he] would be appalled."
"The allegations contained in today's ESPN article are extremely serious, and we have directed the Wachtell Lipton law firm to commence a comprehensive investigation," NBA executive vice president of communications Mike Bass said in a statement. "The NBA and WNBA remain committed to providing a respectful and inclusive workplace for all employees. Once the investigation is completed, its findings will provide the basis for any league action."
Two current Suns employees said there is considerable internal support throughout the organization for an independent investigation into the franchise's culture and that many employees would, as one said, be "more than willing to talk" to investigators.
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Suns minority owner Jahm Najafi said in a statement that he would aid any NBA investigation.
"The conduct he is alleged to have committed has stunned and saddened me and is unacceptable," Najafi said of Sarver. "The well-being and safety of every Suns employee, player, coach and stakeholder is first and foremost our priority. My sincerest sympathy goes out to all whose lives and professions have been impacted ... Although today's revelations fall under the jurisdiction of the League which decides and takes any action based on its finding, I offer my support to ensure there is full accountability."
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11-04-2021, 05:26 PMUNO Gracias
Are we getting the names of these sources, or nah? I saw how the NFL handled the Raiders situation (the whistle blower wasn’t doing it for altruistic reasons), so I would love to see names before I believe this mess.
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11-04-2021, 06:12 PMPelicanidaeSome of the sources are named, most notably Earl Watson and one of Blake Griffin's brothers, but no the reporter isn't going to just name all 70 of his sources in the body of the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNO Gracias
For reasons that Watson himself points out in this statement:
Earl Watson releases a statement through the Toronto Raptors pic.twitter.com/ggYB219taw
— Chris Haynes (@ChrisBHaynes) November 4, 2021
''Basketball and 17 years in the NBA has allowed me the financial privilege to speak my truth, but we can't forget about those who must remain silent for fear of losing their jobs.''
I highly doubt we, the public, will ever find out who the majority of these people are. But the NBA is doing an investigation, so the legal firm doing that investigation will probably contact them and they'll know, which is fine with me. -
11-04-2021, 06:31 PMPelicanidae
There are two reactions to this clip:
— Greg (@gwiss) November 4, 2021
The first is “why didn’t he say what he saw????”
The second is the people who can see that this is basically saying “hey Adam Silver, call me, I know where the bodies are” https://t.co/UKZRtNE7nq -
11-04-2021, 07:00 PMUNO Gracias
If Sarver and the organization are found guilty then screw those guys, they get whatever they deserve. However I’m not ready to jump on the Sarvers just because eating the rich is in fashion. I want to see where this goes just as I wanted to see the NFL release every last detail (because more guys than Gruden, Allen, and Pash deserved to be brought to light).
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11-04-2021, 08:54 PMluigi modeloWhy do they ave to release "every detail" for you to believe it. In the case of Gruden, do you really think he would have immediately resigned had the story been bunk!? Gruden was caught up in Washington's mess, and he was collateral damage. There is nobody out there saying that the story is false. And for Sarver, if these stories are false, then why is he desperately trying to get ahead of the ESPN release? I think that Earl Watson's tweet says plenty enough to believe the story. IF it were a one off, it would be easier to question, but there are 70 sources for the story. You need to brush up on sourcing and how it works. The Duke lacrosse story is an extreme outlier, not the norm.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNO Gracias
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11-04-2021, 10:22 PMUNO GraciasI think the NFL helped a guy with a bad haircut get out of paying a mad man a ludicrous contract. There was nothing more to it than that. The league decided to bury the rest of the details (just like the did with the Saints a decade earlier). There is nothing altruistic to what the NFL did, and what’s the point in outing Gruden when you aren’t having a problem with owners who are just as bad (if not worse). Cool, they got Gruden out of the league, now bring me the scalps of Jim Irsey, Dan Snyder, and Woody Johnson. Those guys are on record for having done inappropriate things, and multiple witnesses have come forth to out them. Either get rid of them all, or don’t get rid of any of them. It’s not like by removing only Gruden these things will change.Quote:
Originally Posted by luigi modelo
Regarding Sarver, I would like for him to show his ****** like the men mentioned above before I call him one thing or another. Watson coming out and saying it is great, will others put there names behind him though, or is this everyone jumping onto the bus after it got into the wreck saying that they sustained injuries? I hope the investigation vindicates Watson/Sarver, and the other person is taken to the cleaners. I would love nothing more than watching another Donald Sterling happen, but you need real evidence first. -
11-04-2021, 10:42 PM13 - 3
Well if it makes you feel any better. Good thing nobody saw those emails.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/02/11/ga...sex-abuse-list
https://www.nola.com/news/article_a8...1e77bf42e.html -
11-04-2021, 10:51 PMUNO Gracias
And that’s just it, don’t stop at one, treat these clowns (owners, front office member, and player) like Pok?mon and catch them all.
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11-04-2021, 11:26 PM13 - 3
Looks like Mark Cuban got a free pass
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/02/21/da...cuban-response -
11-05-2021, 10:15 AMPelicanidaeThat was a while ago, but yeah its messed up. Cuban claims openly and publicly all the time that he's intimately involved in every aspect of the Mavericks organisation, but then when stuff like this comes out he takes zero heat. It's not right.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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11-05-2021, 10:31 AMPELICANSFANCuban has more money and power than Sarver. Sarver is a much easier target for the NBA and other owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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11-05-2021, 11:51 AMPelicanidaeHe's also much friendlier with media members and has a more positive and effective PR department.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
But the fact that we even have to consider those things is the problem - if you're a misogynistic racist who either actively harasses your staff or neglects to deal with it, it shouldn't matter how rich you are, how famous you are, how good your PR is, or who you know.
One of the many many many things wrong with the world right now. -
11-06-2021, 01:19 PMFuncrusherdon't take this the wrong way dae, but I find it hard to care about stuff like this and similarly the situation with Cuban. The world is so banally evil that, while I wouldn't mind if Sarver lost his job over this, it also wouldn't push my buttons too much if the NBA just forced him into "reforming" his public image or whatever. It's just hard to put a lot of weight into the ethical wrongdoings of a guy that's (as far as i know) not a criminal, but just colorfully ignorant and stupid, but with the power to (up until this point) do so. What bothers me far more is someone like Sterling who was just virulently, proudly evil, or more essential to my point Robert Kraft, who's been tied to everything from cheating in his sport, to having literal murderers on his team, to being directly tied to sex trafficking, but skating away scott free, because in this world 1) he has accumulated an immense amount of social and financial capital, and 2) he's considered "a winner," and obviously it's not as though these are mutually exclusive points either. It's not the lone example of institutional wrongdoing/shadiness in sports, not even close to the most extreme, but imo probably the best encapsulation of the hocus pocus that is "justice" in this country. And it's just sad manQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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11-06-2021, 03:26 PMPelicanidaeI understand what you're saying to some extent, but I find it entirely possible to be annoyed/upset/concerned about problems on multiple scales. Horribleness doesn't have to reach some kind of Significance Level on the Evil Scale before I find it to be a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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11-06-2021, 05:27 PMFuncrusherno no, you're right. i was just saying all that to explain my own tentative feelings of apathy towards this. Ultimately, regardless of it's grandiosity or lack thereof, it's still an issue, and it definitely merits attention and action by the NBA. And i do care about stuff like this, for sure. I guess it's more so i hesitate to work myself up about it because i feel like so many other things just go unseen or unpunished, to the point that the core foundation of things don't really change. And people stress over news like this and feel reasonably satiated when "justice" is dealt or the guilty parties are reprimanded, yet fail to understand that the framework that allows these men (from Sarver to Kraft to Sterling to Nasar to Sandusky) to have this kind of power remains fundamentally unchanged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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11-06-2021, 05:36 PMPelicanidaeI do agree with that. Even with something like this, the worst that will happen to Sarver is that he'll sell his ownership stake in the team. He'll still be a billionaire, he'll still run other businesses and have a ridiculous amount of social and political power. It's barely even a small victory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
To make a real difference would require severe social change. Of the kind that a lot of people don't even want to think about, let alone endorse or execute.