This is the person we need to go get
https://thespun.com/nba/portland-tra...ract-offseason
https://www.blazersedge.com/2021/6/3...ayoffs-nuggets
Someone wants out of Portland?
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This is the person we need to go get
https://thespun.com/nba/portland-tra...ract-offseason
https://www.blazersedge.com/2021/6/3...ayoffs-nuggets
Someone wants out of Portland?
It takes two to tango though. Curious if Dame would even consider us (he is locked in his contract though, so maybe it doesn’t matter).
Yeah it's one of those situations where, on paper, it doesn't matter what he thinks. He's under contract for another 4 seasons.
That contract though is massive. Like, $54m in the final year.
You have to think that you have the direct route to a contender by adding him because the cost of that acquisition is every bit of cap flexibility for the next half decade.
I guess I was kind of thinking that he may down tools if he doesn’t get his destination, but I think he is too good to really throw a tantrum like that. Considering his age and the money he is on, we’d have to be a contender right away or it’s a failure. Def a risk to throw the farm at him
I love Dame’s loyalty. His willingness to stay in Portland & play is admirable. Still, if he stays there he won’t win a ring. The Trailblazers might wanna tear this down & start over. Is Dame gonna be okay playing through that?
— Ryan Clark (@Realrclark25) June 4, 2021
Our chances of getting him go up precipitously if we literally hit the lottery.
I think one of the funniest things about Lillard is how the media perception of him is this ultra-loyal mega-leader, mainly just because he's stuck around in Portland so long, but in reality he's constantly whining and complaining as much as any other superstar in the media.
There's an old saying that if you give a man a reputation as an early riser, he can sleep 'til noon. Dame's press reflects that effect a lot.
I’ll still give Dame props as I think it’s good for the league that he was willing to stay with Portland for so long, but yeah- this romantic notion that these players are “undyingly loyal” is quite frankly bollox. Doesn’t mean I can’t respect it to some degree and wish there was more of it and talent would quit jumping ship.
It's not even about the loyalty, I actually respect that. It's all the stuff about him being this stoic leader who never gets rattled and is the ultimate champion for his team, when he's actually just as whiny as all the other big stars. He's constantly complaining about something. That doesn't make him worse than anyone else because, like I say, everyone else does it as well, but the idea that he's this particularly tough, unbothered Ultra-Leader who rolls with the punches and never says a bad word is pretty bizarre.
He certainly isn’t unshakeable and I agree. There is a reason he is a regular season dynamo and a postseason flop. Maybe in the right side he would get over the hump, but I’m still worried about whether someone like him would fit our timeline or not. If Zion and BI were in their late 20’s, sure. Get that vet squad together and go for the ring. Neither of our guys have postseason experience which is a big reason why I’m hesitant to throw the house at him.
I'm not too worried about the timeline. Zion showed last year that while there is definitely room to improve in a few areas, he's good enough now at the game to make a real top 25 player impact and win. Dame being 30 is less of an issue if they are trying to win next season, which we really should be (though, as you said, you have to be careful at how much you throw at what, because that window isn't infinite and you don't want to bankrupt yourself of assets for the next decade for two years of playoff contention).
My issue is just whether we'd be able to field a roster around them that was capable of supporting that talent.
Zion and Lillard, between them, are enough that with even just mediocre roleplayers around them I'm confident in a good offense. Both of them are astronomical scorers, and having to choose between triple teaming Zion in the paint and trapping Dame at 30 feet is a nightmare scenario. Their individual gravity is so immense that trying to defend both at once would drive defenses into the dirt; there's only so far you can stretch a defense before it just tears in half. The concern for me is
A) Could we assemble that group of good roleplayers and
B) What about the defense?
Zion improved on defense throughout the year such that, by the end, he was just a slight negative, and we hope that he improves to being actually solid next year (or good, in a perfect world) but that's a gamble. We don't know it for certain yet. And Lillard is one of the worst defenders who gets major minutes in the NBA, he's really awful. Could we supply the requisite defense and shooting around them to make that pair actually work?
That problem gets amplified if we still have Ingram (though in reality he'd probably be asked for in a Dame trade). Zion, Ingram, and Dame in your starting 5 is a recipe for a horrific defense unless Zion takes a giant leap very quickly, and the quality of defensive pieces you'd have to put around that in order to insulate them is hard to imagine us actually acquiring.
Lillard would be very tough to trade for. What would we have to give up to get him? Brandon Ingram, multiple draft picks, NAW, Hayes. I don?t think Portland would do it unless we win lotto.
I would love to get Lillard. I wish we could have a lineup like this:
Lillard, NAW, Hart, Zion, Hayes
Backups: ???
We need role players.
We could try sending Kira, Adams, Ingram and Bledsoe, with multiple picks.
Then re-sign Hart
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To say Zion's defense is now only a slight negative is like saying that AD's left groin is only slightly strained. In both cases, the players are hugely ineffective.
Like the MSM, just because you repeat some falsehood over and over again hoping to make it so DOESN'T MAKE IT SO. Zion's defense sucks.
Is saying Zion got marginally better on defense at the end of the season a falsehood?
Adding Dame is a championship move, but we are still a few more championship moves away from a championship team.
You look at the best team... They got 12 deep scoring options at 10+ ppg. If we are gonna be an all offense team... That's what we gotta have.
I'd be willing to work backwards from having Lillard and whomever we keep from the trade and build a team from there around him and Zion.
But again. Lillard would have to verbally go to managment and ask for a trade for the Blazers to not just move heaven and earth to make the team and staff around him more suitable.
I agree. We can easily 'bet the farm' because we literally have two farms. You could bet a farm and a half and still have Dame, Zion, half a farm, and as we've seen with every other superstar pairing in the NBA, people will take paycuts to play alongside Dame, Zion, and half a farm.
Terry Stotts officially out in Portland.
Damian Lillard’s top preference to become the next head coach of the Portland Trail Blazers is Los Angeles Lakers assistant Jason Kidd. “Jason Kidd is the guy I want,” Lillard told Yahoo Sports on Friday night. Lillard intends to have significant input on the next hire, sources said. – via Chris Haynes @ Yahoo! Sports
There I thought that Lillard was intelligent.
Lillard with the clown decision.
I cannot understand how Kidd keeps getting looks in at these jobs.
He was a mediocre coach at the absolute best, and is a terrible human being.
The NBA loves to try and crow its progressive nature because it's marginally less racist than the NFL, but there isn't a single team in basketball which hasn't rostered or otherwise supported a domestic abuser or sexual predator, at least not that I can remember.
The Bucks had Kidd as a coach, the Lakers supported Kobe, Terrence Jones kept getting NBA jobs including in New Orleans, Kendrick Nunn has been a media darling for the last two years, Porzingis has a (still open, I think) rape case going on that basically nobody discusses and goes back to his time at the Knicks, etc etc.
No team seems to have a problem paying and promoting total trash people, it's absurd.
Lakers assistant Jason Kidd has withdrawn his name from consideration for Portland’s head coaching vacancy, Kidd tells ESPN. “Portland’s a first-class organization and will have great candidates…but I’ve decided not to be one of them.” https://t.co/UQgZ0YNxv5
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 6, 2021
Wonder what's got Kidd deciding not to go for it after Dame named him specifically.
Unrest in Portland?
Lillard is a dream that doubt has a chance even though we have the assets. He would have to say he wants to play here and that’s not happening, same with Beal. That’s why I always focus on the draft or a third team in trades. Maybe when we are a steady playoff team we’ll have a chance at those guys but by then they’ll be old.
Beal pushing to go to Boston could be interesting. Maybe Zion could talk Tatum and Beal to come to NO. Hahahaha. That was funny
Doesn't really matter what Dame wants, honestly. Now, I'm not as big a fan as some other people of Dame (though I do like him, and obviously him and Zion would be an insane offensive core duo) but the reality is that if Portland decides to move him, they can move him wherever they want.
Dame has 4 years left on his deal: he is no threat to walk. He doesn't have a no trade clause. He has absolutely zero leverage other than just saying he will refuse to play, and I don't think he's the kind of person who would do that. Maybe I'm wrong there, but very few players actually do that regardless of where they end up so it feels like a fair assumption to make.
If they decide to move him, and if we decide to go all in for it, only really OKC could beat us in terms of the haul available. If Portland wants him gone, and we want him in, we can make as good an offer as anyone else - and better than most - and Dame doesn't get a single say in it.
Sure but in the scenario where you're trading Ingram for Lillard, the replacement is pretty evidence. Both suck at defense, and Dame is a big offensive upgrade from Ingram. The replacement is the deal being made.
It's adding the 3rd guy that's still the challenge.
I rather gamble on Ingram than trying to find a 3rd guy. Can't always get a pitch perfect roster. If the compromise is betting on Ingram. I think that's still a conference finals team if we can sort out the rest of the roster with real. Nba players.
On top of that... Ingram got a matching salary for trade. He's always a valuable assest to keep if we go into the tax.
What Conference Finals team top 2 players were below average defenders. Heck, I will take a leap of faith and say Zion and Ingram can get to average. Same question remains.
Portland did it in the fluke year where everyone got hurt and they got an easy bracket. The other 4 years in the 5 year span, however, they were bounced in the first round.
Maybe you can argue CP3 wasnt great on D any more when Houston got there but he is such a brilliant team defender and pesky on ball guy
I just dont see conference Finals upside unless Zion or Ingram massively upgrade on D or Ingram is swapped or you add a 3rd amazing offensive player and you just go Nets route and kill teams with offense - but even then, KD is an impactful defender in the playoffs when he locks in
I would like to see an identity built around efficiency and defence rather than an individual player or players.
I agree with the idea we can't have two of the best players or worse three being terrible at defence. SO, I wouldn't trade for Dame (or Beal) for that reason.
I would rather give Ingram and Zion another season at least to show improvement on defence, and trade for two way players who can score efficiently and fortify the defence.
Dame? While you're at it:
Adams for Dame
Ingram for Beal
Bledsoe for Turner
Ball for Tatum
Dame
Beal
Tatum
Zion
Turner
I would like to add that it is much easier to play defense when you are motivated, and that was often noticeable when we played better teams. As Lucky pointed out a while ago Ingram tended to fare pretty decently against some of the better wings in the league and Zion often took a step in some big games. This reflected in our competitiveness against good teams.
I think having some better energy and defensive talent in the rotation (NAW and Naji really showed this) will be much more important than Zion and Ingram simply taking the leap. It will be important eventually, but I think both will be better served by just simply winning and not having teammates that throw games away at the drop of a hat. Dribbling off the foot, missing wide open shots, etc. Too much of that last year. We simply threw away games cheaply and it’s why a lesser team in Memphis makes it to the postseason as opposed to us.
Yeah, good point JJ.
Could it be happening?
Ingram & all our draft picks
Why not?
Annoying no one else is talking about this ScoopB is...ScoopB. Da well. It's fun to discuss.
Any trade for Dame would cripple us to the point where we'll be a mediocre playoff team at best. Ingram, NAW, and Kira plus 3 picks would be mandatory to make the trade happen. We would be missing so much depth. And we've seen winning teams have 7-8 players in constant rotation.
With Dame basically choosing his own head coach, will the trade speculation now stop?
*Double facepalm*
Depth. They have depth. As I said, we need more valuable role players and two way players. Dame and Zion ain't providing no defense. At best, were the next Trailblazers constantly getting put out the playoffs in the first round. While we leverage our future out at the same time. I don't see the positives besides from ticket sales.
Ingram is 23 and Lilard will be 31 next month. I think parting with Ingram and multiple firsts is a mistake for our long term future.
I would much rather play the competitive long game. Rather than the boogie cousins win now mode. (Which many of us on this board complained about so much btw) trading for Kat or Beal would be much simpler cause of their contracts and we wouldn't leverage our future too bad. But Dame is a SUPERSTAR so if we don't perform, were assed out for the next 5 to 7 years. Not saying this roster is good, however I think if we make 2-3 mediocre/good moves we can be up there this season then make some noise for the coming seasons. Signing or trading Ball for assets (Lauri hopefully), Buddy could be had for cheap, Jerami Grant, etc. My point being, there are many moves that can be made, I don't think we should jump wayyyy off the deep end just yet.
I'd rather Zag towards SGA. Gives you probably 70% of Dame at half the cost