Details
https://pippenainteasy.com/2021/02/1...zo-ball-trade/
https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/02/...-lonzo-ball-2/
Thoughts?Quote:
Chicago Bulls Receive: G Lonzo Ball, C Nicolo Melli, CLE 2021 2nd Round Pick (via NOP), WAS 2021 2nd Round Pick (via NOP)
New Orleans Pelicans Receive: F Thaddeus Young, G Denzel Valentine, CHI 2023 1st Round Pick (Lottery-Protected)
Bulls confirm interest in Lonzo
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02-15-2021, 05:03 PM13 - 3Bulls confirm interest in Lonzo
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02-15-2021, 05:16 PMEman5805
Huh. Weird. All this time I coulda sworn Valentine was like 6'7" or 6'8" or something. Either way, we need to get a 3rd team in the mix.
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02-15-2021, 06:32 PMStalwart385
I don't hate it.
I like the idea of adding a forward to play significant minutes to spell Zion and Ingram. He looks like one of the better defenders on their team. He put's up some points too. Don't think the age fits well but whatever, you'd have him for this and next year to see how it works. It would be an interesting change of pace to see a legit forward off the bench.
Can't get too excited about Valentine. Feels like we have a ton of ok and potential guards already. He's not bad from 3 this year though. He shoots them at a fairly high clip. He also looks like a good defender for them.
Actually Young and Valentine are 1 and 2 in defensive rating for the Bulls.
I don't think we get better for this year or anything. We'd lose a starter and don't gain one. I wouldn't hate seeing some of our younger guards get more shots.
I think the main thing I like is adding some size off the bench just to change things up. Give our stars breathers without wringing our hands. Maybe it would help them figure out a way to create some semblance of a functioning defense as this year's end goal. I don't see Lonzo as a bad defender or anything, certainly has his bright moments, I'd just like to see what would happen if we put a defending forward out there that can put up some points.
I'm not really sure about the overall value. I guess a first from the Bulls make it worth it. I don't think the seconds mean much to us. I mainly just think this team could use a shakeup. I don't have anything against Ball, he's just who the Bulls want. -
02-15-2021, 07:18 PMPelicanidae
I like Thad Young, and have been in favour of the Pelicans acquiring him in the past, but I'm not quite sure how he'd fit into the rotation right now. We're obviously not going to give him a chunk of Zion's minutes, and it's not like Melli is getting minutes for him to take. He's not really a SF at this point of his career either, he's lost a fair bit of his speed to age and is really only fit for guarding PFs at this point so it's not like you can use him as a switch/tweener to spell for Ingram at the 3 either, or give him Hart's minutes there.
There's probably a very easy way to do it that I'm just not registering right now, but that would be something you'd have to have some kind of idea about before you acquired him.
Not interested in Valentine really at all. Hugely mediocre player that I wouldn't want taking up minutes over anyone, really; he'd be one of those guys you acquire just cause hes in the deal and then don't really play.
The concern for me is that pick: lottery protected? From the Bulls? Within only 2 years? So that's basically not a real pick, then. If you could finagle that down to top 8 protected we might have a conversation as to its value.
It's not a bad position for negotiations to start from though. If you can turn ''Thad Young, Denzel Valentine, lottery protected 1st'' into ''Thad Young, top 8 protected 1st'' then I'd pull the trigger, probably. -
02-15-2021, 07:25 PMAUSSIE_PELICANYeah they aint going into the lux tax for Young and Valentine.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
Outgoing salaries: 15.1M
In coming salaries : 18.1M -
02-15-2021, 07:32 PMPelicanidaeComes down to that for me. If this is the best the Bulls are willing to offer, there needs to be some talk elsewhere, maybe from someone who wants Young and is willing to add back value to us elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
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02-15-2021, 07:59 PMStalwart385I'm seeing his shot chart shrunk this year in particular. Few years ago it looks like BI's. Could be another indicator. What about him subbing Zion and Adams, instead of Zion and BI? Just a random thought. Not that he's a center but a "small" lineup, that isn't really that small.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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02-15-2021, 08:21 PMBrian
Just don't see how that trade benefits us.
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02-15-2021, 08:25 PMBigChris504Me neither, and no way in the world do I think this is the best we can get for Lonzo at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
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02-15-2021, 08:32 PMPelicanidaeAddition by subtraction and getting something rather than nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
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02-15-2021, 09:00 PMBrian
I guess to me Lonzo still shows some potential with his shot improving. What kind of a first are we talking about in terms of protection matters too.
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02-15-2021, 09:26 PMAs I See It
Unless I get a legitimate starter under 30 or see a legitimate possibility of a high lottery pick back in return, I hold my hand with regard to Ball if I'm the Pelicans. Like it or not, Ball, at 23, still can turn into something special; something that neither Young or Valentine or a non-lottery draft pick could ever be.
We have to stop being the league's farm team of choice. -
02-15-2021, 10:01 PMragincaucasian
TRASH OFFER. HELL NO.
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02-16-2021, 03:10 AMImpose
Lonzo is worth more than this offer. We're going to go towards a Kira/Lonzo/BI/Zion core. The only way that doesn't happen is if Lonzo demands he wants to play PG exclusively but I think he realizes his role is best being 3&D with great passing.
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02-16-2021, 03:18 AMAusPel
Put Markannen up and you get my interest
Deadline day is March 25 -
02-16-2021, 04:57 AMPelicanidaeWonder how much he realises that when he finds out that it cuts his payday in half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Impose
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02-16-2021, 10:05 AMPELICANSFANIt doesn't at all. We are giving up 2 high 2nds i next year's draft for a lottery protected 1st in 2 years (that likely we don't touch for a while, if at all). Valentine is a deep bench player for us. Young is a decent role player who turns 33 in a few months. Heavy pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
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02-16-2021, 10:11 AMSilver NailTHIS!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
And nothing less -
02-16-2021, 10:12 AMPELICANSFANThe article is ridiculous. The assume that by Shams reporting a rumor, it is a "confirmation" of the Bulls interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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02-16-2021, 11:13 AM13 - 3It’s in my title. Interest! We have end of March to discussQuote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-with-pelicans -
02-16-2021, 11:39 AMPELICANSFAN"Confirm" is the key word. There is nothing confirmed by the Bulls, only rumors.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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02-16-2021, 12:42 PM13 - 3Shams is a credible source. Much like WoJQuote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
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02-16-2021, 12:45 PMAusPelShams also clearly states there's been no dialogue between the teamsQuote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
There's probably a 2% chance this eventuates in anything -
02-16-2021, 01:00 PM13 - 3But if it happened. I would tag it rumor but I don’t know how to add it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
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02-16-2021, 10:18 PM13 - 3
I’m beginning to believe we should keep Lonzo
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02-17-2021, 09:44 AMPELICANSFANAll depends on contract demands. He is not someone I think we should invest $20+ million in.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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02-17-2021, 09:53 AMAusPel
I'd priortise Hart before Lonzo 10/10 times
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02-17-2021, 10:22 AMDroopyDawg
No Lavine no deal.
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02-17-2021, 10:39 AMAusPelhttps://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScaredPalatableGar-small.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
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02-17-2021, 11:58 AMDroopyDawgLet a brotha dream :ezbill::ezbill:Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
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02-17-2021, 12:04 PMAusPelDream away my good manQuote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
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02-18-2021, 10:55 AM13 - 3http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybsd5nx4Quote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
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02-18-2021, 10:57 AM13 - 3
Wait I just noticed Valentine is on his last year according to the machine. Why we want that unless we know he returns?
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02-18-2021, 05:30 PMImpose
Heya guys, just wanted to point out how damn good Lonzo has been this month.
https://www.espn.com/nba/player/game...421/lonzo-ball
Check his Feb %'s -
02-18-2021, 05:38 PMMichaelMcNamaraHas he been good or has his stats been good?Quote:
Originally Posted by Impose
People often see those things as two in the same, but they are not. the ball goes in sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. That doesnt mean you played well on the nights it happened to go in and poorly the nights it missed by 4 inches -
02-18-2021, 05:56 PMImposeWhat I'm seeing on the court with Lonzo is enough for me to think he's worth matching, I mean if some team maxes him maybe I'd balk, but I'm ok giving him a Bledsoe level contract or Julius Randle type contract, totally fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
I get your point but at the end of the day efficiency counts towards winning and Lonzo showing he can be efficient scoring the ball (which has been the major flaw to his game) is a very healthy sign. -
02-19-2021, 12:06 AMAusPelJust using the eye test, I'd say the vast amount of his scoring and efficiency has come very early (1st half). In the same vein, Ingram has been terrible in the clutch too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Impose
The only game I remember him being great in the clutch is the Indy game -
02-19-2021, 03:11 AMImposeNot sure what your point is? He's probably 4th option on offense of the starting 5. He hit the 3 that kept us in the Portland game, didn't he?Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
Question is if a team throws a 20mil per year offer sheet at him would you match or let him walk? And why? -
02-19-2021, 10:28 AMPelicanidae
If you can pull Duncan Robinson from the Heat, you gotta do it. He's in a different class of shooter than all but 3- 4 people in the league. https://t.co/6ezmW3wEzR
— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) February 19, 2021
If there is any truth in this whatsoever, it must be pursued.
I would trade Lonzo for Robinson in a heartbeat. -
02-19-2021, 10:28 AMPelicanidaeLet him walk away, cause he's not worth $20m a year. Pretty simple answer to a simple question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Impose
That's why you trade him now, so you never have to get to that point. -
02-19-2021, 10:43 AMPELICANSFANI think he has played well lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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02-19-2021, 11:13 AMJJackisangryHe’s been perfectly fine. Not 20 mil fine, but if he shows some consistency for the rest of the year you can at least make an argument. I have many doubts personallyQuote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
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02-19-2021, 11:19 AMPelicanidaeHe's played in 25 games for us so far this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJackisangry
In about 15 he's been bad-to-awful. In about 10, most of them very recently, he's been pretty good. That's just looking at box scores.
In reality, some of those ''good'' games have actually been games filled with poor decision making and baffling shot selection, they've just happened to go in on those nights. Similarly, some of those ''bad'' games were actually good games where the shot just didn't fall.
But overall I think it's fairly safe to say that Lonzo has been about 50/50 terrible/good so far this season. It's 25 games. This comes after he was bad for the hefty majority of last year.
I think he would have to be extremely good for the rest of the season to warrant anything approaching $20m, because he's been so up-and-down in his career so far that I have basically zero faith in him to be consistent until I've seen it happen for an extended period of time: he gets no good-faith belief from me, I need hard proof. And of course, then you run that risk of him not doing it and you losing him for nothing cause you passed up the deadline waiting to see if he worked it out. -
02-19-2021, 11:31 AMPolishFanI would too. I think he would be a really perfect fit with ZionQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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02-19-2021, 11:32 AMJJackisangryOur backcourt is a HUGE wart on our starting 5 that is certain. I do believe Lonzo could work if his 3pt keeps falling and we get somebody that can run a game, but is it really worth even banking on him? I don’t think so honestly. He hasn’t shown enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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02-19-2021, 06:34 PMKoMikaera
In my opinion Lonzo is and should be part of the core. Zion is the generational megastar, BI's strength is on the offensive side and Lonzo can balance that with the defensive excellence he has proven capable of as well as being a highly efficient shooter (I think his much improved stats across the board, and improved form are both legit) with a superb passing game.
Before we consider ditching Lonzo I would rather we shift him to shooting guard where his skills fit best with what the team needs, and trade for a capable point guard who can run the offence without being a ball hog. I'm thinking of a vet who doesn't need to prove anything, say, for example George Hill. He can run the point guard capably, he has decent height 6'4", can defend and is a legit sharpshooter. (trade example Meli and Jax to OKC for Hill, we could add a pick if needed) Hill/Lonzo/BI/Zion/Adams would be extremely efficient scoring and potentially decent on defence.
The next thing is to continue to improve the bench so it doesn't suck the life out of the starters, helping them to maintain energy and effort all game. We've already upgraded with HGZ and Kira both of who show effort and consistency and a positive net rating. Bledsoe is an instant upgrade over current Redick and might get his defensive mojo back as a 6th man. If we can trade Redick for a solid wing backup we should do it. And three cheers to Josh Hart, demanding accountability on and off court.
I've missed a few games, looking forward to watching today's match. Let's go ! :rolleyes: -
02-19-2021, 07:05 PMPelicanidaeI think that what a lot of people aren't realising (or are realising, and just choosing to avoid) is the fact that the question isn't really whether a player might be good or not, what's more important is whether or not they'll be good enough to warrant the pay they'll demand.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJackisangry
Like, if Lonzo and Klutch came to us and said ''Lonzo is willing to resign, and he'll do it for $5m a year, three years with a team option'' then of course you take that. That's almost no price at all, it's not that long, and it gives the team max flexibility: he's clearly worth that price.
Alternatively, if they come to you and they say ''Lonzo is willing to resign, but he'll only do it if you max him'' then I think even his supporters would generally agree that would be an absurd overpay.
So you can't just decide in the abstract whether Lonzo is worth keeping, you have to decide what price you're willing to pay to keep him. Everything we're hearing is that his asking price is relatively high, at least high enough to give the FO pause for thought. Now, this is pure speculation here with no evidence to back it up, but that says to me that he's probably not taking any less than other high draft pick second contracts which, if you look at guys who went behind him in his own draft class like Jayson Tatum, Bam Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell, and OG Anunoby, is probably at least $19m (OG's contract's yearly value).
That's a lot of money for a gamble. -
02-21-2021, 04:01 PMPELICANSFANI would suspect you are right in that, if I were Ball, I would be looking at the Anunoby contract. 4 years/$72 million, or $18 million a year. Kennard got 4 years/$56 million, so he will certainly get more than that. So, the Pels would probably like to get him for something closer to 4 years/$64-$68 million, or $16-$17 million a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae