Ingram vs Tatum Highlight Video

Somebody made a versus highlight video. Cool concept. Who ya got?

If you say Ingram you are not being objective and suffer from optimism bias. Telling you now. :hihi:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1koF...MaxaMillion711

This isn't Ingram v Tatum. False advertising

*sigh* *facepalm*

I really wish this board would grow and gain new members.

Tatum is already a top 10-15 player. Ingram top 30ish?

I think Ingram has taken a huge leap from where he was in LA and he is now a clear top 40 player imo.

Tatum is better than him everyday and twice on Sundays. It's not a debate.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think Ingram has taken a huge leap from where he was in LA and he is now a clear top 40 player imo.

Tatum is better than him everyday and twice on Sundays. It's not a debate.

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Color me surprised this would be your highly ridiculous take. No, I am frankly shocked. Flabbergasted honestly.

However, the good news is you do not suffer from optimism bias.

But for those still at the back, this thread was mainly about the video itself. Who had the better highlights from last year. This shouldn't have been this hard.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Color me surprised this would be your highly ridiculous take. No, I am frankly shocked. Flabbergasted honestly.

However, the good news is you do not suffer from optimism bias.

But for those still at the back, this thread was mainly about the video itself. Who had the better highlights from last year. This shouldn't have been this hard.

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How is it a ridiculous take? lmao

Ingram good, Tatum better is not ridiculous anymore than KAT good, AD better is.

Actually if u look at their game and their stats Tatum is not much better than Ingram offensively, if at all...
Where Tatum makes a big gap is defense. Ingram is bad/awful on that side of the ball and Tatum is elite level defender..

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Originally Posted by Mrakar

Actually if u look at their game and their stats Tatum is not much better than Ingram offensively, if at all...
Where Tatum makes a big gap is defense. Ingram is bad/awful on that side of the ball and Tatum is elite level defender..

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Statistically on offense, Ingram is better. Had a better TS%, gets to the line more often, and is a superior playmaker.

Defensively, I don't think the gap is wide there either. Especially when Tatum is flanked by Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart. And especially since Ingram still has a good bit of upside still filling out his body. Ingram was asked to deal with legit 4s last year. Tatum did not.

So yeah to suggest there is some wide gap between them is not only highly debatable, but ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Statistically on offense, Ingram is better. Had a better TS%, gets to the line more often, and is a superior playmaker.

Defensively, I don't think the gap is wide there either. Especially when Tatum is flanked by Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart. And especially since Ingram still has a good bit of upside still filling out his body. Ingram was asked to deal with legit 4s last year. Tatum did not.

So yeah to suggest there is some wide gap between them is not only highly debatable, but ridiculous.

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Yeah completely disagree.

Ingram took a huge leap as a shooter, but entirely on the catch and shoot: he was a sub 30% pullup shooter. Anyone who watches modern NBA basketball can tell you that pull-up shooting is vastly more impactful when it comes to warping defenses and beating coverages than just being a C&S guy, and Tatum was a near 40% pullup threat last year.

Secondly, if you don't think the gap is that wide defensively then I just don't think it's worth us talking any longer. Tatum had an argument for all-Defense last season, whereas Ingram is still a clear net-negative on that end of the floor. Tatum is probably the best nail defender in the league right now: if not, he's clearly top 3.

So yeah, if you just stare at raw box score numbers you might think they're actually very close, but in reality Tatum is the far superior defender and pull up shooting > being a spot up guy.

Ingram does get the edge on playmaking, that is absolutely true, and he was also a slightly better finisher at the rim (65% vs 61% iirc) but yeah, it's not really that close looking at the big picture.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah completely disagree.

Ingram took a huge leap as a shooter, but entirely on the catch and shoot: he was a sub 30% pullup shooter. Anyone who watches modern NBA basketball can tell you that pull-up shooting is vastly more impactful when it comes to warping defenses and beating coverages than just being a C&S guy, and Tatum was a near 40% pullup threat last year.

Secondly, if you don't think the gap is that wide defensively then I just don't think it's worth us talking any longer. Tatum had an argument for all-Defense last season, whereas Ingram is still a clear net-negative on that end of the floor. Tatum is probably the best nail defender in the league right now: if not, he's clearly top 3.

So yeah, if you just stare at raw box score numbers you might think they're actually very close, but in reality Tatum is the far superior defender and pull up shooting > being a spot up guy.

Ingram does get the edge on playmaking, that is absolutely true, and he was also a slightly better finisher at the rim (65% vs 61% iirc) but yeah, it's not really that close looking at the big picture.

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Ah must be my optimism bias again.

So pull up shooting trumps playmaking by a wide margin. Gotcha. Big picture...except some big picture stuff to ignore.

And who in their right minds regards Ingram as a C&S guy? Why even bring up that red herring? I can tell you a pull up shooter does indeed NOT warp defenses better than a player that can attack and finish at the rim, attack and play make for others, or attack and get to the line and shoot a higher FT%.

And Tatum is awesome at help and recover. Gotcha. Which means he is leaps and bounds better than Ingram as a total player.

You really should just really avoid BI threads altogether. My advice. It didn't go very well last off season. Probably wont again this offseason. I swear. :hihi:

Only thing that really matters is they?re close enough to even compare.

No ones making Jordan Vs Steve Smith versus if you catch the drift.

Ingram is where he needs to be and I?m happy to cheer him as a Pelican.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

You really should just really avoid BI threads altogether. My advice. It didn't go very well last off season. Probably wont again this offseason. I swear. :hihi:

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Yep, I was right again: not worth the conversation. :rolleyes: Call me back when you want to have a discussion instead of just dirt-slinging. Everyone has been wrong at some point: I imagine that's something you're intimately familiar with. Either have the conversation at hand or don't bother.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Statistically on offense, Ingram is better. Had a better TS%, gets to the line more often, and is a superior playmaker.

Defensively, I don't think the gap is wide there either. Especially when Tatum is flanked by Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart. And especially since Ingram still has a good bit of upside still filling out his body. Ingram was asked to deal with legit 4s last year. Tatum did not.

So yeah to suggest there is some wide gap between them is not only highly debatable, but ridiculous.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xeJ...fILC/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yep, I was right again: not worth the conversation. :rolleyes: Call me back when you want to have a discussion instead of just dirt-slinging. Everyone has been wrong at some point: I imagine that's something you're intimately familiar with. Either have the conversation at hand or don't bother.

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This is the conversation at hand very much. Thats not "dirt slinging". It's pointing out a serious negative BI bias you can't seem to let go. But if you want to concentrate on those quotes, and disregard the other 90% I posted there, that tells me all I need to know.

I could say a lot about the rest of that nonsense, but I'll just ignore as I usually have to do on here. :rolleyes:

I'd expect Ingram to make a major leap in pull up shooting from 3 this season based on everything I've heard. This is his first offseason in two seasons, and his dribble J was one of his main points of improvement.

Tatum and BI are miles away from each other defensively.

If I needed one bucket, I'd choose BI. If I needed a stop, I'd choose Ingram. But the gap between Ingram and Tatum offensively is much smaller than the gap between Ingram and Tatum defensively, at the moment.

This is why when people say stuff, you have to go check yourself. Overall on pull ups on eFG%, Ingram was 40%. Tatum was 51%.

The difference was on 3 point pull ups. Ingram there was 28% and Tatum was 40%.

But Ingram hardly took any pull up 3 pointers. Ingram was only 19 - 68. Tatum was 124 - 307, which is a whopping 4.5 times Ingram's attempts.

Otherwise, Ingram shot 39% on 360 pull ups and Tatum 40% on 557 pull ups.

And again, playmaking and shooting at the rim trumps iso 3 point shots. One has much more optionality and the other has basically very little. So I wont let this whole debate boil down to pull up shooting. But it's just me being wrong again. :hihi:

Ingram has to become at least average on defense.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Ingram has to become at least average on defense.

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Hopefully we will see some progression this year. The way the Pelicans played/emphasized defense was not on the same wavelength as the Celtics. So, it is tough to compare. Overall, I would still take Tatum over Ingram at this point in their career, but I do not think it is a done deal.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Ingram has to become at least average on defense.

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Ingram actually defended more often near the rim and defended slightly better than Tatum near the rim.

Which is somewhat surprising given his weight, but not so much given his wingspan.

Why is Ingram getting compared to Tatum anyways? Wouldn't want to compare him to Jaylen Brown?

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Why is Ingram getting compared to Tatum anyways? Wouldn't want to compare him to Jaylen Brown?

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Seems he typically is compared to Tatum. Also, the fact that Tatum was rumored to be the target if the Pels were to trade AD to Boston compared to BI being the target with the Lakers. Seems like a reasonable comparison.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Why is Ingram getting compared to Tatum anyways? Wouldn't want to compare him to Jaylen Brown?

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It's because of profile and both being potential AD trade targets.

Ingram's clearly better than Brown.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Why is Ingram getting compared to Tatum anyways? Wouldn't want to compare him to Jaylen Brown?

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Because Ingram and Tatum are closer in talent

I'd take Tatum over Ingram based on current careers, but I believe Ingram has a higher ceiling

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Originally Posted by Impose

I'd take Tatum over Ingram based on current careers, but I believe Ingram has a higher ceiling

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Why?

I’d take Tatum over Ingram right now. Younger and already has a 10/10 bag of offensive moves. He has every move in the book ala Kyrie. But at 6?8 he has the athletic gifts and focus to be a plus defender.

But Ingram is without a doubt a better playmaker (although Tatum has made progress on that in the bubble).

Why can’t they both be great players? Even if one is ranked slightly above the other in projecting them out to their prime, I’m still glad we got at least one of these 6’8 new age wings that are becoming almost necessary in the 2020’s to win games in the Conference Finals/Finals.

BI is incredibly talented. I think he’s also going into this year the most confident and settled he’s ever been. I’m expecting a big jump that should be fun to watch with Zion.

What will really end up separating BI from Tatum historically will be who can perform like a star in the Conference Finals/Finals and actually be clutch. Neither has shown that yet so I will still wait to make a final verdict.

BI has some dog in him. I’m hopeful that when BI gets a chance to be in the CF/Finals that he will be a clutch player which imo is the most important attribute when evaluating players.

BI ultimately I think will settle into a highly efficient 25 ppg, triple double threat every night. With Zion being a 27+ppg animal that the entire team constantly feeds

That’s why we need a third All-Star level player in the mold of Bradley Beal or Jamal Murray to complement BI/Zion perfectly and would love it if we’re monitoring both of those players closely.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Ah must be my optimism bias again.

So pull up shooting trumps playmaking by a wide margin. Gotcha. Big picture...except some big picture stuff to ignore.

And who in their right minds regards Ingram as a C&S guy? Why even bring up that red herring? I can tell you a pull up shooter does indeed NOT warp defenses better than a player that can attack and finish at the rim, attack and play make for others, or attack and get to the line and shoot a higher FT%.

And Tatum is awesome at help and recover. Gotcha. Which means he is leaps and bounds better than Ingram as a total player.

You really should just really avoid BI threads altogether. My advice. It didn't go very well last off season. Probably wont again this offseason. I swear. :hihi:

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I can tell you're one of those posters that having a intellectually honest conversation with is impossible

As much as I like Ingram, this is pretty unequivocally Tatum right now. Yeah Ingram's a better passer, and a better finisher, but it's not enough to offset the advantage Tatum has as a pull up shooter and defender, the latter of which is pretty significant. Wouldn't even say Ingram's the better playmaker, because playmaking is a combination of on-ball scoring & creation, and Tatum is a tier up as a scorer.

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

As much as I like Ingram, this is pretty unequivocally Tatum right now. Yeah Ingram's a better passer, and a better finisher, but it's not enough to offset the advantage Tatum has as a pull up shooter and defender, the latter of which is pretty significant. Wouldn't even say Ingram's the better playmaker, because playmaking is a combination of on-ball scoring & creation, and Tatum is a tier up as a scorer.

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He has an irrational love boner for Ingram, there's little hope for him.

It's clear to 99% of people that Tatum is pretty superior at this point.

Tatum is destined for All NBA 1st team for a lot of his career

If all goes well, Zion can be there too

2025 1st team

Doncic, That upcoming French 16yo, Tatum, Cunningam, Zion

Tatum has the behind the scenes branding of wannabe Kobe but he has a lot of poor decision making basketball moments like Paul George...right now.

At times I see what people see in Tatum, and then there are equal amount of times I don?t. That?s how I feel about him...right now.

You can't be a "tier up" as a scorer while being a worse finisher at the rim.

You can't be a "tier up" as a scorer while drawing less fouls and being a worse FT shooter.

You can't be a "tier up" as a scorer when your mid range pull up game is no better than the person you're being compared to.

This suddenly paramount pull up game between Ingram and Tatum is not the gap it is made out to be.

There is no difference in their mid range pull up game % wise. Three point pull ups is something Ingram just didn't do in Gentry's system. A system that led the league in passes and player movement miles. As talked about in a film study session on Zion:

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The Pelicans rank first in player movement (12.2 miles traveled per 24 minutes of possession, second in ball movement (383 passes per 24 minutes of possession) and sixth in assist percentage (having recorded assists on 63.3% of their buckets).

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Ingram played in an offense where 3 point pull ups were simply not part of the offense. Movement and relocating was. Especially for a player more effective attacking the paint.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

2025 1st team

Doncic, That upcoming French 16yo, Tatum, Cunningam, Zion

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Victor Wenmbanyama

Biggest difference between Ingram and Tatum....

Boston vs. New Orleans

Swap teams and BI instantly becomes better than Tatum.

I have no problem with people saying Tatum is better than Ingram right now. Haven't said anything to the contrary. That was never the debate to begin with.

Trying to put them on separate planes of basketball skill I call absolutely ridiculous.

But longer term absolutely. Ingram has the higher upside still and will be the better player.

Ingram will never see the court due to his heart condition....so the whole thread is moot.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Ingram will never see the court due to his heart condition....so the whole thread is moot.

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Ingram actually moved to Papua New Guinea in 2016, and since then we've been seeing the world's most uncanny body double.

That's saying something....since you live in England and I will automatically assume you hang out with Paul McCartney, regularly.