While nobody in their right mind can deny that the most obvious difference between the Pelican team that ran off 13 straight losses in November/December and today's version is Zion Williamson, it would be disingenuous to not, at least, acknowledge other factors in the team's turn around. Feel free to add to my list:
1. The coaching staff is no longer employing 13/14 man rotations.
2. Derrick Favors is healthy and playing again.
3. The team is playing their drafted rookies (other than Zion) a lot less.
4. 'Kenny Hustle' is no longer an integral piece in the mosaic.
5. The defensive genius of Jeff Bzdelik is 'starting' to translate to the basketball court.
6. Nikola Melli has been inserted into the game plan.
7. The schedule has softened.
Key Factors in Pelican Turnaround
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02-12-2020, 12:29 PMAs I See ItKey Factors in Pelican Turnaround
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02-12-2020, 12:45 PMTaker597
1. It's January and Gentry Pre-season ends on December 31st.
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02-12-2020, 12:57 PMUNO Gracias
I don’t want to sound like I am a fan boy here, but Frank stepping up has helped us off the bench. His play (specifically his defense) has been solid for the bench squad. It’s easy to forget that he is only 5 months older than NAW, so he still has a lot of room left to grow.
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02-12-2020, 01:06 PMPelicanidaeBasically this, to a huge extent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taker597
Gentry's early season rotations were, for lack of a better word, nonsensical. You can blame injuries for that, and there's no doubt that injuries played a significant part, but the fact remains that there were fans sat at home watching, scratching their heads, and thinking ''what on Earth is that man doing?'' multiple times a game. Much of this has stopped; while Gentry's rotations aren't flawless by any means (they're a bit too rigid in some ways; others have pointed out that he always subs Zion for Redick at about 6 minutes in the first quarter, regardless of whether Redick is the right person to match up) but they're much more stable, consistent, and limited in range.
Another aspect is that yes, while it's not exactly gotten to the soft bit quite yet, the schedule has eased up slightly compared to the pre-January gauntlet that we had to run.
There's also just a general state of better play from some people on the roster. Jrue's October and November were dreadful on offense, but through late December and January he's gotten it largely back together. This doesn't necessarily refer to box score stats (although his efficiency is slightly up) but it also refers to just how comfortable he looks on the floor and the decisions he's making.
The same is true for Lonzo, who was having an absolutely dismal season until about Christmas time, but who has since played much better. Up until December 18th (the end of the 13 game losing streak), Lonzo was averaging about 10/5/5 on 37/33/56 splits, which I think we can all agree isn't exactly great. Since the end of the losing streak, though, his statline has been far better; 13/7/8 on 41/38/56. Still not perfect but overall he's just been better.
As for Melli, I don't even think the thing about him is that he's been put into the game plan. Anyone who watched early knows he got opportunities; he played in 15 of the first 17 games and averaged close to 20 minutes a night in them.he issue was that he was not very good; he looked timid and refused to shoot a bunch of good looks, and he was getting roasted on defense by anyone with a hesi. The thing with Melli is that the game has finally slowed down for him. He's shooting more readily, and at a blistering pace over his last 15 games (49%!), and his defense has been way better.
Part of the reason for these improvements in guys like Jrue and Lonzo will simply be the fact that they've built more chemistry as the year has gone on. Part of it will be that Gentry's less erratic rotations will give them a bit more security and confidence in their role, and familiarity with the lineups they find themselves in. I wouldn't be surprised if part of it was just playing themselves into better shape; we all know that Lonzo spent much of the summer sidelined with injury.
Obviously the OP also points out; Favors is back and healthy, which is a hugely important factor especially on the defensive end, and the OP also points out that yes, Zion is back. Zion's importance can't really be overstated; he's been arguably the best player on the team since he's gotten back.
So yeah, I think if you boil it down, you get this:
1) Gentry's rotations have become less absurd and laughable
2) This has resulted in better chemistry developing
3) Guys have played themselves back into game shape
4) Injuries have largely cleared up, especially to bigs
5) Zion is basically a demi-god -
02-12-2020, 01:46 PMMrakar
1. Healthier roster
2. Easier schedule
*** We are still going nowhere with Gentry as HC. Still think that's only bad decision Griff made since coming here. -
02-12-2020, 01:50 PMml wave
Added to 'dae's list, and expanding on the OP, Kenny Hustle's role has basically gone to Hart who does all of the important hustle stuff but also adds the ability to occasionally make a shot.
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02-12-2020, 02:14 PMpelafanaticThis is just so nonsensical. The coaches hired this summer were John Beilein, Taylor Jenkins, Ryan Saunders, Luke Walton, Monty Williams, Frank Vogel. Other than maybe Taylor Jenkins, I mean, come on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrakar
The smart move is and has always been to wait until you pinpoint THE guy. Getting just another guy in here can only set us back.
I'm fairly convinced that Gentry knows he's an interim guy and he's fine with that. Nothing he's done has hurt this team's future.
The thing with the head coaching position is that normally, they don't really move the needle unless they're really bad or really good. We currently have what is more than likely to be one of the most sought after head coaching positions in the NBA. Prior to this season, we had no idea what we had in guys like Ingram, Ball, Hart, and also were adding Zion, Hayes, and NAW. Why would you hire a coach before you know what kind of talent you have? Now Griff is in a position to pick exactly which head coach he wants, and he can fit it to the strengths of this team. Hiring a new coach before the season was never an option and never should have been. I don't think its necessarily crucial that we make the hire this summer either; but I do think that if they know their guy, they need to go het him/her. -
02-12-2020, 02:30 PMAs I See ItIn the first 15 games, Melli played 20 minutes or more 5 times. The team's record in those five games was 3 - 2 (60%)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Further for the season Melli has played 20 or more minutes 13 times. The team's record in those 13 games is 9 - 4 (69%).
My conclusion is: More Melli is a good thing for this team (I could make a inverse argument about another player, but it serves no useful purpose at this point.) -
02-12-2020, 03:08 PMPelicanidaeSlight disagree; I think Frank Vogel has done a very good job in LA. And while it was 2 seasons ago, Nurse is still a relatively fresh hire in Toronto and he's arguably been the best coach in the league for the last 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelafanatic
The second part is what's most important to me. Gentry is not great. Everyone who was around when Griff got hired knows that I thought getting rid of Gentry then would have been a good idea, and I've reiterated constantly that I think Gentry needs to go. But he's not hurting the important thing, which is the young core. He's been totally happy to give Zion more and more minutes and some pretty heavy usage, even if the plays themselves aren't that optimal. He's played Jax a ton all year, which I think is good. His one real problem is that he seems allergic to NAW, but honestly I can kind of forgive that for the most part when we remember that Griff has basically asked for playoff priority.
He's not the coach who will be here in 3, 4, 5 years when we're winning and making deep playoff runs. That's for sure. But for right now? There's no need to fire him until at least after the season. -
02-12-2020, 03:42 PMnew city champ
For lack of a better word the teamed has gelled--gelled late--but gelled. That goes for the coaching staff, the players, the injury situation, the rotations, etc...It took a half-season, but it happened.
The rest of the year is for letting this group gel further and see how potent they can be. Holiday remains the "X" factor. If he plays well like the last two games, the Pels are tough to beat. If he shoots 25% from deep, misses late free throws and turns the ball over, Pels are very beatable.
Gentry and staff have been solid since Christmas. The only case for firing him in season would be if the team totally fell apart. That almost happened during the losing streak, but to the staff's credit they kept things together and turned the ship around. They deserve to finish out the season at least. -
02-12-2020, 05:09 PMmsusousaphone
Yay. We gave people who want to grill a coach for not having a team full of rookie, sophmore, and junior year players (and a ton of injuries) ready to win right out of the gates a platform.
Because these people needed more attention for their pessimistic and unrealistic views.
It is inconsistent and disingenuous to blame Gentry for the failures to start the season and not praise him for winning now (I'm more neutral on both).
But for real. If you're discounting the wins now because we're healthy, you can't blame Gentry for the losses when we were injured.
If you discount the wins because of the easy schedule (which hasn't started yet, ya noobs), you can't ignore how hard the schedule was to start.
This could go on forever. Bottomline, if you ingore the success of Gentry right now but hold him accountable for something that was reversed when we weren't doing well.....it's simply a flawed way to think. No way to defend it. -
02-12-2020, 06:26 PMbillfromfinanceAD was calling him out last night, specifically his adjustment to the NBA on the defensive end and how much better he is looking now compared to earlier on.Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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02-12-2020, 06:32 PMAs I See ItThere is certainly some truth to that assessment, but, even on day one, he was not the worst big defensively. What we saw in the paint through the 13 game losing streak proves it.Quote:
Originally Posted by billfromfinance
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02-12-2020, 06:55 PMWildlifeAirGrp
Team is having fun. It's apparent. Bench is engaged like I have never seen since the team has arrived here. Ingram is actually smiling and into the games (like last night). Josh Hart and Frank Jackson are so important to this team.
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02-12-2020, 08:31 PMP_B_&_G8. Brandon Ingram!Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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02-13-2020, 06:24 AMUNO GraciasI would argue that as important as Zion has been to the team, Josh has been just as important. He is sneaky Lou Williams/Manu good. He has been a glue guy like Teyshaun Prince or Ron Harper. He is going to leave it all out there on the floor in so many different ways where if someone else’s game isn’t working (during a game) he is going to pick up the slack. I hope we keep him long term.Quote:
Originally Posted by WildlifeAirGrp
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02-13-2020, 09:21 AMluigi modeloyupQuote:
Originally Posted by msusousaphone
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02-13-2020, 09:22 AMluigi modelo
"I would argue that as important as Zion has been to the team, Josh has been just as important. He is sneaky Lou Williams/Manu good. He has been a glue guy like Teyshaun Prince or Ron Harper. He is going to leave it all out there in the floor in so many different ways where if someone else’s fans isn’t showing (during a game) he is picking up slack. I hope we keep him long term."
good take and I think he is certain that we sign him long term -
02-13-2020, 09:52 AMDroopyDawgQuote:
Originally Posted by msusousaphone
Well said... wasted your time... but very well said. We can shoot 35% from the floor on wide open shots, and turn the ball over 30 times in a game, and its Gentry's fault. -
02-13-2020, 01:53 PMKPop1
Frank, on some nights has positive play on offense and defense. To say he is important to this team, I just don't agree with. His 5.9 pts. a game, and a 3P% 31.4 just isn't good. He is only making $1.6 million this year, so as an end of the bench guy, I get it.
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02-13-2020, 01:57 PMPelicanidaeI agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by KPop1
Frank has had some good games, a bunch of bad ones, and provides some value but I don't think it's value that's exclusive to him. I think the league has a bunch of these score first guards who can't really playmaker reliably who can occasionally go off. Frank is one, and that's cool, but he's very replaceable. -
02-13-2020, 02:01 PMUNO Gracias
I think as the season goes on, and you see Frank eating up more minutes you will understand why he is seeing the court more. It has little to do with him making $1.3M or anything like that, and more to do with the trust that the team has in him. His defense isn’t bad, and he can score. If he can ever put it all together watch out.
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02-13-2020, 03:27 PMAs I See ItQuote:
Originally Posted by UNO Gracias
I whole-heartily agree with you, UNO. Some folks get so engrossed in the Flash exhibited by some players that they refuse to, likewise, acknowledge when the same player Crashes. Frank (and Melli) are non-glamour assets that, when called upon, deliver more often than not. No analytical analysis will ever measure their value to the team.
The Lakers had Rambis and Cooper, the Bulls had Grant and Armstrong, the Pistons had Mahorn and Lambeer, and the Celtics had Carr and Silas. We have Melli and Jackson. -
02-13-2020, 03:42 PMluckymanI want to LOL at this but it also makes me sadQuote:
Originally Posted by Taker597
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02-13-2020, 04:43 PMP_B_&_GBecause we all know its trueQuote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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02-13-2020, 04:46 PMNichols
Love Zion but this team didn't stop being awful until Favors returned.. and I believe we'd still be bad half the time if he wasn't in the line-up.. In spite of Zion's play.
You're not winning many games with your defensive anchor out of the line-up.
Favors
Ingram
Ball
Hart
Have all been instrumental in this teams turnaround. With Favors being the most important. We started winning games before Zion returned.