The whole point in staying competitive this season is that it would allow Zion to grow in a winning environment. Now that he's out until mid-December and the team has started 1-6, at what point to we begin to focus on the draft. It's undeniable at this point that another top 5 pick paired with the already loaded Pels youth would be huge for the future of the franchise, and David Griffin's FO team has about as long of a leash as any FO in basketball.
Question being, what moves would you make and when? Or would you let this team grow together throughout the season and see if you can become competitive once Zion returns?
Personally, I would not tank or trade major assets, as I think allowing Zion, Ingram, Jrue, and the rest of the core grow is important to our success next season, but I could easily be convinced to move JJ, Favors, Moore, etc if the Pels are something like 10 games under .500 by mid to late December. A second half run and the #10 pick could arguably be more valuable than a full-on tank and the #4 pick.
Tanking v. Staying Competitive
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11-05-2019, 09:36 AMpelafanaticTanking v. Staying Competitive
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11-05-2019, 10:03 AMDarkHornet
I'm not at all worried about draft position at this point. We've got plenty of young talent, we've got to start learning how to play with that talent. I expect to see continued growth throughout the season, and do not want to see any artificial "holding back" of the team for the sake of draft position. In my opinion, that would be way more damaging to the long-term health of the team than getting one more good young player would be a benefit.
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11-05-2019, 10:16 AMJJackisangry
So far, it’s looking like a super “meh” draft, which means a lot of gems will probably fall to mid-late lottery. I’m not really concerned. I’d like us to win regardless. I just hope playoffs don’t mean that we retain Gentry. Do whatever we can to win and if we don’t, oh well
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11-05-2019, 10:37 AMSnarly
Cannot tank. The Pelicans have enough young players and draft capital. They need to phase out the old guys and start developing the kids at some point. There’s enough talent now.
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11-05-2019, 11:52 AMdonato
The focus should be developing young talent and chemistry. Let the wins and losses fall where they may. But yeah- we aren't making the playoffs with this team. Favors hasn't done much and JJ hasn't been fantastic. I'd like us to seriously consider moving Jrue at the deadline for the right offer (I realize this isn't super popular here). He certainly isn't contributing on the court. Unfortunately his value was higher before the start of the season, but I imagine he can't get worse than he is now (only could get hurt).
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11-05-2019, 11:55 AMFedupfanQuote:
Originally Posted by donato
I think anyone over 25 should be trade bait. Jrue is about to play the Pels out of compensation for him.
I mean if you were a GM, what would you be willing to trade to acquire Jrue? -
11-05-2019, 12:10 PMPelicanidaeI mean, I guess that depends on what you mean by 'meh'. Obviously where you pick determines value.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJackisangry
IMO, this draft has a pretty strong top 3, a kind of 'good-but-not-incredible'' 4-10, and then from like, 11-25, it's all pretty flat with guys who don't really have star upside, but who are highly probable to be at least okay NBA players.
So if you're picking with, say, the #7 pick, then it's a very ''meh'' draft because you probably suck as a team and it's unlikely that you get a guaranteed star with that unless you're lucky. But if you're picking with the #20 pick, for example, you're probably loving this draft because #20 is usually slim pickings for starter-upside players, and this draft has a bunch of guys around that spot who project to be actual NBA players. -
11-05-2019, 12:12 PMluckyman
1-6 in an 82 game schedule is not a deep hole nor a time to panic. The season is literally 2 weeks old.
Plus you have one bonafide all star caliber dog, plus another one joining the team in 4 - 6 weeks.
Gentry would have to do a monumentally horrid job for this to continue to be an awful team. Way too much talent on the roster for that. -
11-05-2019, 01:04 PMJJackisangryI predict we will go on a run, but whether it will be enough remains to be seen. We haven’t seen the side without Zion yet, and that is a yuge missing piece. I don’t think it’s doom and gloom and no chance of playoffs like some, but we have to be like the Jazz when they hit on Mitchell. That is a tough ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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11-05-2019, 01:30 PMHoustonPelicans
Defensive possessions like this just screams chemistry issues. They'll get it together. Hart didnt need to stunt as Ingram had Harris contained. These plays will be cleaned up 30 games into the season
https://twitter.com/stevejones20/sta...102734850?s=19 -
11-05-2019, 01:37 PMAUSSIE_PELICANAnd Gentry was too dumb to answer the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans
The teams defence didn't just stink against the Nets but against all the teams they have played.
Gentry just ignored the fact. -
11-05-2019, 01:40 PMSnarly
These type of breakdown due to over helping literally happens to every player on the team. Even Holiday. This defensive scheme either requires an elite rim protector who is extremely mobile or expect the players to read minds. It’s overly complicated and puts your players out of position regularly.
We need Hayes NBA ready to run this defense scheme effectively. That’s asking a lot. -
11-05-2019, 01:57 PMHoustonPelicansI agree. But the Rockets were able to run this scheme even with Capela off the court but they had incredibly smart defensive vets. They may have to tone it down a bit because the team is so young. But it could pay off for them to keep the system in place and continue to build chemistry/communication. All Ingram had to do was yell "I'm up" and maybe Hart wouldn't have stunted. Bzdelic has a history of success with this scheme, albeit with vets, so I'm willing to stay with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarly
Also let's note that we did simplify our defense in 2018 and it helped sweep the Blazers. But Draymond Green called it a gimmick defense and we got exposed the next round. -
11-05-2019, 02:43 PMUNO Gracias
I agree with the group that says you don’t tank. We can’t tank. We have so much young talent that at some point we either have to start winning with them, or accept the fact that we don’t know how to develop players to win with. Fight and win. Let’s the chips fall, but fight and win with all your might. If we tank, who knows what it will do to this fan base regardless of having Zion or not.
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11-05-2019, 02:44 PMPelicanidaeIt wasn't a gimmick defense lol, it was just a defense that worked VS the Blazers since their entire offense revolved around two elite scoring guards, and it didn't work against the Warriors because the Warriors offense revolved around two elite scoring guards, an all-time great elite SF, and a much more dynamic system of passing.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans
I'd also note that we didn't really get exposed: we got hosed by the refs who called the entire series in the Warriors favour one point, I think it was after game 3 but I can't remember, they had taken basically twice as many FTs as we had the entire series. And yet we still took a game off them, and very nearly took 2. -
11-05-2019, 02:54 PMHoustonPelicansThis is true also. But remember the Rockets in Bzdelic system defended that same Warriors team pretty well took them 7 games and possibly would've won if CP stayed healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Cant disagree with the refs hosing us, that seems to be a never ending issue. We never get foul calls despite players like Jrue living in the lane. If I remember correctly there were games where we nearly doubled the Warriors in points in the paint and still shot significantly less free throws -
11-05-2019, 03:22 PMPilot172000
No tanking please. I want us to fight it out and grow. We got plenty of talent and it feels like they just have to gel and grow to fit. Defense is the sticking point right now because its hard without the flow of knowing what your teammates are doing.
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11-05-2019, 03:25 PMEman5805
Losing on purpose is BS and I will never refer to it by name intentionally. I want our team to go out and strive to play better and better every game. The rest will take care of itself
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11-05-2019, 03:34 PM13 - 3
Too early to tank. If things don’t get better by January then we can discuss shutting players down.
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11-06-2019, 04:03 AMLtdee2019HELL NO!!! NO TANKING IF THEY LOSE LET THEM LOSE FIGHTING!!! I WANT TO SEE HOW ZION LOOK WIT THIS LINE UP!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pelafanatic
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11-06-2019, 04:04 AMLtdee2019BUT ALL THOSE GUYS ARE PLAYING FOR THERE NEXT CONTRACTQuote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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11-06-2019, 06:57 AMda ThRONe
With the current odds for the lottery being with they are now it makes sense to hold off on tanking. However I felt this entire season should have been about developing the young players to begin with. If we win with Ball, Walker, Haynes, Ingram, Okafor, Jackson, etc great if we lose maybe even better. Giving big mins to Holiday, Favors, Moore, Melli and Redick should not be the focus of this team.
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11-06-2019, 07:03 AMFedupfan100% agree. The vets should see their minutes reduced as the season goes along. I’m worried Alvin will do something like last game and put Moore in. Although Moore played well, I still would have rather seen NAW.Quote:
Originally Posted by da ThRONe
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11-06-2019, 07:35 AMPelicanidaeKinda agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by da ThRONe
That said, I do think there's a way to develop players and a way not to. And I don't think that playing a bunch of younger guys with no chemistry and no guidance, in a dysfunctional defensive system that they simply cannot execute (whether that's a result of experience, injury, innate defensive trouble, whatever), isn't actually that conducive to helping them develop. The veteran play should be there to provide a skeleton around which you can develop the youth, so that they have something stable and reliable to fall back on when things aren't quite working. You can't just throw them out there and say ''go fail for 82 games, that's development''.
Not saying you said they should, just elaborating on the idea. -
11-06-2019, 07:49 AMFedupfanWhat if the vets can’t execute either?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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11-06-2019, 09:34 AMPelicanidaeDepends why they can't execute, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedupfan
If it's cause you're a team with a roster of garbage vets, then there's really nothing you can do. You just suck: you're the Knicks for the last few years. Not a great environment for development so your young guys struggle, and your vets aren't good enough to keep you afloat.
If it's cause you're a team with good vets who are struggling, like us, you've got to ask why they're struggling. In this case, it's because of a multitude of factors: injuries, a defensive scheme that doesn't seem to fit the personnel we have, and standard early-season struggles. So the best recommendation seems to be: get healthy, modify your defensive scheme, and be patient. Which sounds like a cop out, but really what are you supposed to do?