Kuzma injured already! Thank U Griff. For taking Ingram over Kuzma

Looks like we dodged a bullet here.


https://deadspin.com/add-kyle-kuzmas...rab-1838530653

Hope AD likes playing with JaVale McGee

Lol, nobody wanted Kuzma in the first place. His name only ever came up as leverage, since everyone knew that the Lakers brass loved him.

He sucks, hard. As hard as I am on Ingram, Kuzma is twice as bad. And older.

Edit: also gotta note, obviously I'm not glad he's injured. I try not to celebrate injuries, the vast majority of the time. But I (and many others) did say that the Lakers had set themselves up poorly, with no depth, and were a couple of injuries away from big trouble. If this turns into a Thing, rather than just a thing, then there could be some problems for them out of the gate.

Confirmed by ESPN

https://es.pn/2n724LG

Looking forward to finding out if a Rondo-Bradley two man combo is enough to drag two players as talented as LeBron & AD to a negative net rating overall https://t.co/RlX3UG4AiF

— Mason Ginsberg (@MasonGinsberg) September 27, 2019

Some interesting info from the Lakers camp here.

If Kuzma is out to start the season, do we see Rondo/Bradley/Lebron/AD/Dwight start the year?

If so.... lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Looking forward to finding out if a Rondo-Bradley two man combo is enough to drag two players as talented as LeBron & AD to a negative net rating overall https://t.co/RlX3UG4AiF

— Mason Ginsberg (@MasonGinsberg) September 27, 2019

Some interesting info from the Lakers camp here.

If Kuzma is out to start the season, do we see Rondo/Bradley/Lebron/AD/Dwight start the year?

If so.... lol

---

There is no way AD stays next year. Team is awful for the future.

#DoitBig https://t.co/jjTNVfK3jK

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) September 27, 2019

LMAO!

In other news, Lakers are a garbage fire.

Now kind of upset Griff didn't get this year's pick. Although going forward just how awful are they going to be. Maybe Philly-like awful.

It’s funny how ESPN is spinning this as “No big deal”. Anthony Davis saying he can’t wait to play with Dwight and McGee. I spat my soda everywhere in laughter. If he wanted a clown show he certainly got it. Oh I can’t wait to see Rondo and Dwight sharing the ball. LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WildlifeAirGrp

Now kind of upset Griff didn't get this year's pick. Although going forward just how awful are they going to be. Maybe Philly-like awful.

---

Couldn't get this year's pick. Can't do consecutive years, so if they gave us the 2020 pick, we couldn't get the 2019 pick. Which is what we used to get off Solo's deal, pick up Hayes, NAW, and Didi, and acquire Favors (space created by moving Solo). So I'm pretty pleased by the way we did it.

A team with AD and Bron won't be garbage, even though the pieces may not appear to be complimentary.

I believe an argument can be made for AD as the best player in the league when healthy, Bron is still a top 5. That's enough for a team to at least be solid, even if the supporting cast is suspect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nichols

A team with AD and Bron won't be garbage, even though the pieces may not appear to be complimentary.

I believe an argument can be made for AD as the best player in the league when healthy, Bron is still a top 5. That's enough for a team to at least be solid, even if the supporting cast is suspect.

---

We had a team with AD, Jrue, Demarcus Cousins (pre-Achilles explosion), and a better supporting cast than the Lakers have now, and we still barely made the playoffs.

Is Lebron's value, in year 17, going to essentially equivalent to Jrue's + pre-Achilles Cousins, plus the extra necessary to make up for the terrible supporting cast?

I doubt it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

We had a team with AD, Jrue, Demarcus Cousins (pre-Achilles explosion), and a better supporting cast than the Lakers have now, and we still barely made the playoffs.

Is Lebron's value, in year 17, going to essentially equivalent to Jrue's + pre-Achilles Cousins, plus the extra necessary to make up for the terrible supporting cast?

I doubt it.

---

That's a valid argument.. maybe we just have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a garbage/awful team.

And yes I do think Bron who still put up exceptional numbers last season, with Green is a better supporting cast for AD than what the Pels had. I also don't think anyone considered the Pels an awful or garbage team. It always seemed to me that all that was needed was one more marquee player to team with AD. I will acknowledge I'm working with a limited sample size since I didn't catch a lot of the games. So I might be wrong about that.

I've been scratching my head on potential lineups for both the Lakers and Clippers. Javale pretty much came out the other day saying he expects to start, and gave the impression thats be disappointed if he doesnt.

So for the Lakers is it:

Rondo/Green/Lebron/AD/McGee
Lebron/Green/Kuzma/AD/McGee
Rondo/Green/Kuzma/Lebron/AD
Replace Rondo with Bradley in above lineups

People talk about the Pelicans spacing problems, yet in any of those lineups you have two possible reliable shooters and only if Kuzma starts. Bench not very deep.

Clippers
Beverly/Leonard/George/Harrell/Zubac
Beverly/Leonard/George/Harkless/Harrell
Beverly/Williams/Leonard/George/Harrell
Beverly/Leonard/Harkless/Harrell/Zubac* (George expected to miss early part of the season)
Beverly/Williams/Leonard/Harrell/Zubac* (George expected to miss early part of the season)

No matter how you slice it, the Clippers look punishable inside with limited floor spacing or holes on defense while George is out..

People dont want to talk about them, but the best 1 - 5 lineup I've seen is definitely Utah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

I've been scratching my head on potential lineups for both the Lakers and Clippers. Javale pretty much came out the other day saying he expects to start, and gave the impression thats be disappointed if he doesnt.

So for the Lakers is it:

Rondo/Green/Lebron/AD/McGee
Lebron/Green/Kuzma/AD/McGee
Rondo/Green/Kuzma/Lebron/AD
Replace Rondo with Bradley in above lineups

People talk about the Pelicans spacing problems, yet in any of those lineups you have two possible reliable shooters and only if Kuzma starts. Bench not very deep.

Clippers
Beverly/Leonard/George/Harrell/Zubac
Beverly/Leonard/George/Harkless/Harrell
Beverly/Williams/Leonard/George/Harrell
Beverly/Leonard/Harkless/Harrell/Zubac* (George expected to miss early part of the season)
Beverly/Williams/Leonard/Harrell/Zubac* (George expected to miss early part of the season)

No matter how you slice it, the Clippers look punishable inside with limited floor spacing or holes on defense while George is out..

---

I'm not entirely sure what you mean when it comes to the Clippers.

All of those Clippers lineups have at least 2 players who are strong perimeter threats (Leonard/George, Leonard/Beverley, Beverley/George, etc) and then you've completely neglected to incorporate JaMychal Green, who the Clips resigned and who is also a capable shooter (shot 40% last year on 3+ attempts per game with Clips), who will probably get more run than Zubac and who graded out as a reasonable defender, even if he's not elite.

I'm not sure how a lineup like the Clips, which features Beverley (39% from 3 last year), Leonard (37% from 3 last year), PG13 (38.6% from 3 last year), Green (40% from 3 last year), Landry Shamet (42% from 3 last year) etc, is a team that has ''limited floor spacing''.

Especially when you consider that team also contains PatBec, Kawhi, PG13, Mo Harkless, and Harrell, I'm not sure how it's a team with big holes on defense either. Like, maybe when you mention they'll be punishable inside, there's some truth to that because neither Harrell nor Green are elite rim protectors, but it's not like they're sieves either: Harrell in particular held opponents to 6.7% worse than their averages at the rim last year.

Also, Kuzma isn't a reliable shooter whatsoever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm not entirely sure what you mean when it comes to the Clippers.

All of those Clippers lineups have at least 2 players who are strong perimeter threats (Leonard/George, Leonard/Beverley, Beverley/George, etc) and then you've completely neglected to incorporate JaMychal Green, who the Clips resigned and who is also a capable shooter (shot 40% last year on 3+ attempts per game with Clips), who will probably get more run than Zubac and who graded out as a reasonable defender, even if he's not elite.

I'm not sure how a lineup like the Clips, which features Beverley (39% from 3 last year), Leonard (37% from 3 last year), PG13 (38.6% from 3 last year), Green (40% from 3 last year), Landry Shamet (42% from 3 last year) etc, is a team that has ''limited floor spacing''.

Especially when you consider that team also contains PatBec, Kawhi, PG13, Mo Harkless, and Harrell, I'm not sure how it's a team with big holes on defense either. Like, maybe when you mention they'll be punishable inside, there's some truth to that because neither Harrell nor Green are elite rim protectors, but it's not like they're sieves either: Harrell in particular held opponents to 6.7% worse than their averages at the rim last year.

Also, Kuzma isn't a reliable shooter whatsoever.

---

Beverly/Leonard/Green/George/Shamet will never be a Clippers lineup any more than NAW/Jackson/Redick/Moore/Melli will be for the Pelicans. You just threw together all their best shooters as if that would ever be feasible to put on the floor together. Thats wierd and makes no sense whatsoever but ok.

Two, you include Green who has played in 24 and 41 games in the last two years, averaged only ~20 mins per game, and has not averaged more than 3 three point shot per game (only 2.3 last year), yet you rail on Ingram because his attemps are around 2 per game? Thats also wierd and makes no sense whatsoever but ok again.

For three, I said there are exploitable holes on their defense. This is true. Zubac, again, has only averaged around 17 minutes per game and has only played in 26 and 33 games in the last two years. Nothing jumps off the charts for him defensively. Harrell is not particularly explosive at 6'8" and in the most minutes he's played in his career last year, averaged 3 fouls per game. He plays hard and wont give up anything easy, but can be exploited against decent bigs.

You can run to the stat page further if you like, but against a team with good bigs, a front court of Zubac/Harrell is highly exploitable and only goes downhill from there.

I also didnt say every of their lineups has limited floor spacing. The key word is OR punishable inside.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Beverly/Leonard/Green/George/Shamet will never be a Clippers lineup any more than NAW/Jackson/Redick/Moore/Melli will be for the Pelicans. You just threw together all their best shooters as if that would ever be feasible to put on the floor together. Thats wierd and makes no sense whatsoever but ok.

Two, you include Green who has played in 24 and 41 games in the last two years, averaged only ~20 mins per game, and has not averaged more than 3 three point shot per game (only 2.3 last year), yet you rail on Ingram because his attemps are around 2 per game? Thats also wierd and makes no sense whatsoever but ok again.

For three, I said there are exploitable holes on their defense. This is true. Zubac, again, has only averaged around 17 minutes per game and has only played in 26 and 33 games in the last two years. Nothing jumps off the charts for him defensively. Harrell is not particularly explosive at 6'8" and in the most minutes he's played in his career last year, averaged 3 fouls per game. He plays hard and wont give up anything easy, but can be exploited against decent bigs.

You can run to the stat page further if you like, but against a team with good bigs, a front court of Zubac/Harrell is highly exploitable and only goes downhill from there.

I also didnt say every of their lineups has limited floor spacing. The key word is OR punishable inside.

---

I wasn't listing them as in ''these people will all play together at the same time''. The point wasn't ''the Clips will run THIS lineup!'', the point was that if a team has 5 or 6 players who are all VERY high calibre shooters, then they will always be able to have 2 or 3 or those individuals on the floor at any given time. Teams generally only run rotations 8 to 10 men deep. If you have 5 above average shooters across all 5 positions, then any 5 man group you create out of a 10 man group can easily contain at least 2 of them.

That's all you really need to space a floor adequately for a modern NBA offense. Obviously they're an extreme example, but look at Golden State. They've been able to spend years running lineups that contain multiple absolute non-factors from deep like Iguodala and Green because the other few players like Curry and Klay have been so good that you only need a few at a time. That's an extreme, and obviously LAC has nobody of the Curry/Klay calibre, but it's demonstrative of the point.

With JaMychal Green, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. He played in 65 games last year alone, not ''24 and 41 games in the last 2 years''. He got traded mid-way through last season. I think what you've done is look at his one season on Basketball Reference that's divided into two columns (one for each team he played with) and taken that as separate years, when they aren't. They're the same year. 65 games. You made the same mistake with Zubac: he hasn't played in ''26 and 33 games in the last two years''. He played in 59 games last year. That's one year, where he got traded, and you've misread the columns.

And Green shot 2.7 threes per game in that year, at 40%. Not sure why you're bringing up Ingram, because the requirements for a stretch 5 are different from the requirements for a ball-dominant forward, but even so, call me when Ingram hits takes 2.7 threes a game and hits 40% of them: I will be very pleased about it. For Ingram, that would mean shooting at a career best in efficiency, at the same time as shooting at a career high in volume. I'll take that, very gladly.

As for Zubac and Harrell's defense, I don't disagree that neither of them are all-League defenders. But at the same time, neither of them (particularly Harrell) are scrubs. Yes, it's true that neither of them can handle, say, Joel Embiid or Nikola Jokic with any facility, but how many centres can? Very few. The fact is that Harrell is a capable defender who can do a perfectly respectable job on most centres in the league. Is that ''exploitable''? Maybe against 4 teams in the NBA. Unless you're Philadelphia, Denver, Milwaukee, or the Lakers, I wouldn't count on that being too soft a spot for you.

If you're rolling out a 5 man starting lineup where Montrezl Harrell is your absolute worst defender, you're in a very good place there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nichols

A team with AD and Bron won't be garbage, even though the pieces may not appear to be complimentary.

I believe an argument can be made for AD as the best player in the league when healthy, Bron is still a top 5. That's enough for a team to at least be solid, even if the supporting cast is suspect.

---

Can Davis stay healthy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Can Davis stay healthy?

---

I think so.. I just think you guys are overstating the Lakers shortcomings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nichols

I think so.. I just think you guys are overstating the Lakers shortcomings.

---

Out of the 5 names in the LA projected starting five listed above, Rajon Rondo is their best shooter.

Only one of the five (Davis) was a plus on both sides of the floor.

They have a grand total of 2 two way players (Danny Green, AD), and only three players on the entire roster who can create for themselves on anything like a consistent basis (Lebron, AD, Kuzma). One of those three names is one of the worst big-minute players in the NBA.

The Lakers have issues. Big ones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Out of the 5 names in the LA projected starting five listed above, Rajon Rondo is their best shooter.

Only one of the five (Davis) was a plus on both sides of the floor.

They have a grand total of 2 two way players (Danny Green, AD), and only three players on the entire roster who can create for themselves on anything like a consistent basis (Lebron, AD, Kuzma). One of those three names is one of the worst big-minute players in the NBA.

The Lakers have issues. Big ones.

---

Think you missed my point. What I said.. "I just think you guys are overstating the Lakers shortcomings".. You said.. "In other news, Lakers are a garbage fire."

I've acknowledged the roster has issues. Saying they're awful, or suggesting they're garbage is a bit hyperbolic in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nichols

Think you missed my point. What I said.. "I just think you guys are overstating the Lakers shortcomings".. You said.. "In other news, Lakers are a garbage fire."

I've acknowledged the roster has issues. Saying they're awful, or suggesting they're garbage is a bit hyperbolic in my opinion.

---

I think a roster that has 2 two-way players in total, and only 3 people who can create their own shot, one of whom is Kyle Kuzma, is a garbage roster.

If any other team outside of maybe Boston had constructed a roster like this, there is no way anyone would consider it a sure fire playoff team, let alone a finals contender, like they do with the Lakers. If this exact same team was in Orlando, or Minnesota, or hell, New Orleans, people would be saying that either AD or Lebron would be demanding a trade by mid-season because the front office had failed to give them support. But cause it's LA, we're supposed to pretend that it's not a complete trash heap? Nah.

Yea.. definitely hyperbolic in my opinion. You have two of the top five players in the league on the same squad, with a soso supporting cast. No, that is not what I'd call a trash heap. I think sometimes we talk past each other. You stated.. "no way anyone would consider it a sure fire playoff team, let alone a finals contender, like they do with the Lakers."

That has nothing to do with my very simple rebut, that characterizing the Lakers as garbage is a bit much. Objectively speaking.. As constructed I have no idea what they will or won't achieve, but I do know they aren't a trash, or awful team. One can believe this while not being impressed with the roster construction. We don't have to be on the far end of the spectrum either way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I wasn't listing them as in ''these people will all play together at the same time''. The point wasn't ''the Clips will run THIS lineup!'', the point was that if a team has 5 or 6 players who are all VERY high calibre shooters, then they will always be able to have 2 or 3 or those individuals on the floor at any given time. Teams generally only run rotations 8 to 10 men deep. If you have 5 above average shooters across all 5 positions, then any 5 man group you create out of a 10 man group can easily contain at least 2 of them.

That's all you really need to space a floor adequately for a modern NBA offense. Obviously they're an extreme example, but look at Golden State. They've been able to spend years running lineups that contain multiple absolute non-factors from deep like Iguodala and Green because the other few players like Curry and Klay have been so good that you only need a few at a time. That's an extreme, and obviously LAC has nobody of the Curry/Klay calibre, but it's demonstrative of the point.

With JaMychal Green, I'm not really sure what you're talking about. He played in 65 games last year alone, not ''24 and 41 games in the last 2 years''. He got traded mid-way through last season. I think what you've done is look at his one season on Basketball Reference that's divided into two columns (one for each team he played with) and taken that as separate years, when they aren't. They're the same year. 65 games. You made the same mistake with Zubac: he hasn't played in ''26 and 33 games in the last two years''. He played in 59 games last year. That's one year, where he got traded, and you've misread the columns.

And Green shot 2.7 threes per game in that year, at 40%. Not sure why you're bringing up Ingram, because the requirements for a stretch 5 are different from the requirements for a ball-dominant forward, but even so, call me when Ingram hits takes 2.7 threes a game and hits 40% of them: I will be very pleased about it. For Ingram, that would mean shooting at a career best in efficiency, at the same time as shooting at a career high in volume. I'll take that, very gladly.

As for Zubac and Harrell's defense, I don't disagree that neither of them are all-League defenders. But at the same time, neither of them (particularly Harrell) are scrubs. Yes, it's true that neither of them can handle, say, Joel Embiid or Nikola Jokic with any facility, but how many centres can? Very few. The fact is that Harrell is a capable defender who can do a perfectly respectable job on most centres in the league. Is that ''exploitable''? Maybe against 4 teams in the NBA. Unless you're Philadelphia, Denver, Milwaukee, or the Lakers, I wouldn't count on that being too soft a spot for you.

If you're rolling out a 5 man starting lineup where Montrezl Harrell is your absolute worst defender, you're in a very good place there.

---

My mistake on Green and Zubac, but my point still stands that on far as shooters, you cant count Green but disregard Ingram. Green is a stretch 4 who can shoot as many 3s as a shooting forward. But he has long stretches of a season where he might shoot no more than 1, 2 or 3 per game. While he and Beverly's stats might say they are making 3s at an above average rate, neither of their games are centered around shooting, or just scoring a lot of points period.

So imo I just don't count those guys as "floor stretchers" like a JJ Redick or Etwaun who's games are built around that. Or even Ingram who will be expected to score and expected to put up many more 3s in Gentry's system. I'd put Shamet in that category before either Green or Beverly.

And the Lakers have some question marks about their roster, but I sure as hell wouldnt call it garbage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luckyman

My mistake on Green and Zubac, but my point still stands that on far as shooters, you cant count Green but disregard Ingram. Green is a stretch 4 who can shoot as many 3s as a shooting forward. But he has long stretches of a season where he might shoot no more than 1, 2 or 3 per game. While he and Beverly's stats might say they are making 3s at an above average rate, neither of their games are centered around shooting, or just scoring a lot of points period.

So imo I just don't count those guys as "floor stretchers" like a JJ Redick or Etwaun who's games are built around that. Or even Ingram who will be expected to score and expected to put up many more 3s in Gentry's system. I'd put Shamet in that category before either Green or Beverly.

And the Lakers have some question marks about their roster, but I sure as hell wouldnt call it garbage.

---

I can't count the guy who, last season, shot more threes than Ingram ever has in a season at higher efficiency than Ingram ever has in a season? Weird.

Beverley takes more than 50% of his FG attempts from 3. His offensive game is, very much, centred around being a threat from outside. It's true that he's not called upon to score a lot of points, but neither is Kyle Korver, and I think we'd all agree that this fact doesn't prevent Korver's shooting from stretching the floor.

It's true, of course, that someone like Patrick Beverley is not counted on as a floor stretcher in the same way that Redick is, because he doesn't provide the same manipulation of offense via running off screens and off-ball movement that Redick does, but that doesn't change the fact that he IS a shooter, who WILL hit threes, regularly, and who CANNOT be ignored on the 3 point line. The Lakers have precisely one player with that level of shooting on their entire roster in Danny Green. As a side note, I wouldn't count Moore as a floor stretcher in the same way as Redick either: his volume is much lower, and much like Beverley his off-ball movement is on a much lower level.

I did list Shamet as well, so... yeah.

I'm gonna list all of the actually good players on the LA roster. You ready?

- Lebron James
- Anthony Davis
- Danny Green.


Done. 55 wins and a ring sound realistic to you?

I mean this with all due respect but it seems like you sometimes intentionally muddle the argument.

"55 wins and a ring sound realistic to you?"

Absolutely no one in here communicated this as an outcome.. You likened the Lakers to garbage, that's the point of contention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I can't count the guy who, last season, shot more threes than Ingram ever has in a season at higher efficiency than Ingram ever has in a season? Weird.

Beverley takes more than 50% of his FG attempts from 3. His offensive game is, very much, centred around being a threat from outside.

---

Again, you continually miss the point of Ingram in Gentry's system.

And as far as Beverly, how many absolute FG attempts we talking?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nichols

I mean this with all due respect but it seems like you sometimes intentionally muddle the argument.

"55 wins and a ring sound realistic to you?"

Absolutely no one in here communicated this as an outcome.. You likened the Lakers to garbage, that's the point of contention.

---

Davis sign that extension yet? Is Dwight Howard’s contract with Lakers a guaranteed contract? Yep Lakers can cut him loose and pay him nothing if he becomes a pain. :) Everything fine and dandy? Yeah I think Clippers are more of a threat than the Lakers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Davis sign that extension yet? Is Dwight Howard’s contract with Lakers a guaranteed contract? Yep Lakers can cut him loose and pay him nothing if he becomes a pain. :) Everything fine and dandy? Yeah I think Clippers are more of a threat than the Lakers.

---

What do contracts have to do with the "Garbage" takes? We're discussing win expectations.. I'm saying they aren't an awful team, nothing more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nichols

I mean this with all due respect but it seems like you sometimes intentionally muddle the argument.

"55 wins and a ring sound realistic to you?"

Absolutely no one in here communicated this as an outcome.. You likened the Lakers to garbage, that's the point of contention.

---

Weird, I could swear that the Lakers had communicated a championship as an outcome. So I'm judging them by their own prediction.

If you think that the Lakers are 40, maybe 45 win team that might make it in as the 5th seed if they have a good year, or something similar to that, then I agree with you.

I've said it multiple times.

The Lakers have THREE total above average players. If this roster had been put around AD and Lebron ANYWHERE outside of LA, except maybe Boston, that front office would be getting crucified on the daily. That roster, men 4 through 15, is BAD. Just bad. Terrible. They are extremely lucky they have arguably the GOAT plus a top 5 guy, because if they had even just two regular all-stars, they'd be a lottery team guaranteed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Again, you continually miss the point of Ingram in Gentry's system.

And as far as Beverly, how many absolute FG attempts we talking?

---

Last season, Beverley shot 282 threes at 39.7%, making a total of 112. Which is pretty respectable for a guy who is not an offensive lynchpin.

For comparison, Ingram made 31 threes last year, Curry made 354, and Jrue made 118. Just a couple of guys from throughout the spectrum to compare to, there.

I don't miss the point at all. I would not be surprised if Ingram took a bunch more threes in Gentry's system. I hope he does, and I hope he figures it out and starts making them at a high clip: it would help us, and his future, a lot. I'm just not into trying to make my player judgements through a crystal ball.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Last season, Beverley shot 282 threes at 39.7%, making a total of 112. Which is pretty respectable for a guy who is not an offensive lynchpin.

---

Nah playa lol. Thats not what I asked. I asked how many FG attempts did Beverly average per game? Or just FG attempts total? He's a floor stretcher right?

And if you're not trying to judge future performance than what is the point? You dont buy a company's stock based on what happened last year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Nah playa lol. Thats not what I asked. I asked how many FG attempts did Beverly average per game? Or just FG attempts total? He's a floor stretcher right?

And if you're not trying to judge future performance than what is the point? You dont buy a company's stock based on what happened last year.

---

Like, you're aware that you can check this? You don't need me to tell you. The information is out there for free.

Patrick Beverley, in the year 2018-19, shot a grand total of 6.1 FGAs per game, with 3.6 of them being 3pt shots.

That's 477 total shots, with 282 of them being 3s. 194 made total, with 112 of those makes being 3s. The vast majority of his offense was from behind the three point line. His 3pAr was 59.1%, which is pretty significant. He's a floor stretcher, in the sense that you have to defend him at the three point line and you cannot just walk away from him or fail to close out on him or whatever because he will make them. He's not a floor stretcher in the JJ Redick/Klay Thompson sense, because his game doesn't involve the whole screen manipulation that theirs does. Not all floor stretches come equally, as Pelicans fans should well know given how we've been watching E'twaun Moore for multiple seasons now.

Also, please do not give investment advice if your investment advice includes the recommendation to not check the past performance of the company. That's horrible advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Like, you're aware that you can check this? You don't need me to tell you. The information is out there for free.

Patrick Beverley, in the year 2018-19, shot a grand total of 6.1 FGAs per game, with 3.6 of them being 3pt shots.

That's 477 total shots, with 282 of them being 3s. 194 made total, with 112 of those makes being 3s. The vast majority of his offense was from behind the three point line. His 3pAr was 59.1%, which is pretty significant. He's a floor stretcher, in the sense that you have to defend him at the three point line and you cannot just walk away from him or fail to close out on him or whatever because he will make them. He's not a floor stretcher in the JJ Redick/Klay Thompson sense, because his game doesn't involve the whole screen manipulation that theirs does. Not all floor stretches come equally, as Pelicans fans should well know given how we've been watching E'twaun Moore for multiple seasons now.

Also, please do not give investment advice if your investment advice includes the recommendation to not check the past performance of the company. That's horrible advice.

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Last comment first, your reading skills are.... I said, and you can read it again, you don't BUY a company's stock based on what happened last year.

And so he attempts 6 FG per game on average. He has some games wehre he blows up, but shooting 3s, or shooting the ball period, is not what his game is centered around...just like I said.

You leave him open whats he going to burn you for? Two 3s or 6 points? His volume just isnt enough for me to consider him a floor stretcher and thats looking FORWARD, especially sharing the court with high volume shooters like George and Leonard.

Against the Pelicans last year he scored 12, 8, and 3 points while attempting 2, 3, and 3 three point attempts making about 1 each game. Thats about what he does, and I'm sure he was left open from distance more than those numbers indicate.

His job on the floor is to be a dog and do the dirty work, not kill you from the 3 point line.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Weird, I could swear that the Lakers had communicated a championship as an outcome. So I'm judging them by their own prediction.

If you think that the Lakers are 40, maybe 45 win team that might make it in as the 5th seed if they have a good year, or something similar to that, then I agree with you.

I've said it multiple times.

The Lakers have THREE total above average players. If this roster had been put around AD and Lebron ANYWHERE outside of LA, except maybe Boston, that front office would be getting crucified on the daily. That roster, men 4 through 15, is BAD. Just bad. Terrible. They are extremely lucky they have arguably the GOAT plus a top 5 guy, because if they had even just two regular all-stars, they'd be a lottery team guaranteed.

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I agree with about 90% of what you just said.. With that being said I only took issue with you saying they were a garbage team.. They aren't for two obvious reasons. I take issue with nothing other than that specific statement.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

And so he attempts 6 FG per game on average. He has some games wehre he blows up, but shooting 3s, or shooting the ball period, is not what his game is centered around...just like I said.

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Tell me where I said his game was based around ''shooting the ball period''. I said his offensive game is based around his perimeter shooting. Which is obviously is. Everyone knows that he's considered a defense first player, but when it comes to evaluating his ability and output on offense it's his 3 point shooting which is most important and it's silly to act like his shooting threat has zero impact on a defense.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

You leave him open whats he going to burn you for? Two 3s or 6 points? His volume just isnt enough for me to consider him a floor stretcher and thats looking FORWARD, especially sharing the court with high volume shooters like George and Leonard.

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You're right, 6 points never matters. Games are never won or lost by margins of less than 6 points. Letting a 39.7% three point shooter get open threes on you is fine, and definitely the kind of thing that you don't bother defending. Thank you for the help, you've been very insightful.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Tell me where I said his game was based around ''shooting the ball period''. I said his offensive game is based around his perimeter shooting. Which is obviously is. Everyone knows that he's considered a defense first player, but when it comes to evaluating his ability and output on offense it's his 3 point shooting which is most important and it's silly to act like his shooting threat has zero impact on a defense.

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Is this you misreading "buy" for "check" again? Never said his shooting has zero impact on a defense. I am clearly saying it doesn't have nearly the impact as you make it out to be, because he simply does not shoot very much at all.

Done going back and forth on this, which seems to be your forte. Nighty night.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Is this you misreading "buy" for "check" again? Never said his shooting has zero impact on a defense. I am clearly saying it doesn't have nearly the impact as you make it out to be, because he simply does not shoot very much at all.

Done going back and forth on this, which seems to be your forte. Nighty night.

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If you shoot 39.7% from 3 and take around 4 a game, you're shooting enough that an opposing defense has to take account of you.

Sorry if you struggle with that concept. Good night.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If you shoot 39.7% from 3 and take around 4 a game, you're shooting enough that an opposing defense has to take account of you.

Sorry if you struggle with that concept. Good night.

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Since you dont want to be precise, he makes around 1 per game. Thats what stats tend to do on low volumes. Later.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Since you dont want to be precise, he makes around 1 per game. Thats what stats tend to do on low volumes. Later.

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You should hit up Bzdelik for this season :)

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Originally Posted by Nichols

What do contracts have to do with the "Garbage" takes? We're discussing win expectations.. I'm saying they aren't an awful team, nothing more.

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But is it what Davis originally signed up for? Is it really any different what he had here?

#DoitBig https://t.co/jjTNVfK3jK

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) September 27, 2019

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Originally Posted by Nichols

What do contracts have to do with the "Garbage" takes? We're discussing win expectations.. I'm saying they aren't an awful team, nothing more.

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Contracts have a whole lot to do. Dwight goes knucklehead that can cut ties completely on that non-guaranteed contract. That relationship with Rondo is something to watch. Secondly Davis has not signed that long term contract yet which pretty much means he can bolt if the Lakers flatline again. Remember he signed with the Lakers expecting Leonard. On that note

Your supporting arguments make sense to me.. They just have nothing to do with what my point of contention was.

Again.. We were discussing how well the team might fair once the season starts. We're talking about on court play boss. Within that context, I don't believe they are a garbage squad.. That is all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Your supporting arguments make sense to me.. They just have nothing to do with what my point of contention was.

Again.. We were discussing how well the team might fair once the season starts. We're talking about on court play boss. Within that context, I don't believe they are a garbage squad.. That is all I'm saying.

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a team with lebron and AD on it is not a garbage team....AD,,howard and mcgee will make it hard for teams to score inside or close around the paint and as a team they will make the playoffs.....now you have to remember where you are at and some posters on this board just cant be honest about the lakers and houston....

The reason I say that the Lakers team is garbage is simple, and people misrepresenting it doesn't actually make it incorrect.

If you were to take ANY other team in the NBA and place 2 all-stars on it, and then fill out the rest of the roster will players of the calibre that LA has, everyone would accept that that team was garbage.

I'm pretty confident that nobody would deny that a team with that supporting cast was woefully constructed, lacking talent, lacking depth, lacking quality pieces that fit together.

But because it's LA, and because those two allstars are Lebron and AD, people are acting like this supporting cast is actually just fine. It's not. It still sucks. This team, overall, is still trash. Now, it's trash that MIGHT make the playoffs as long as neither Lebron and AD get injured, because Lebron and AD are both incredible players, but that doesn't change the fact that it's trash. Lebron carried that CLE team to the finals a handful of seasons ago, and that CLE team was trash too. That's the power of a player of Lebron's calibre.

Remove the Lakers blinkers, and ask yourself: outside of Lebron and AD, what is the overall quality of this roster?

- Kyle Kuzma
- Danny Green
- Dwight Howard (2019)
- Javale McGee
- Rajon Rondo
- Quinn Cook
- Jared Dudley
- Talen Horton-Tucker
- Alex Caruso
- Troy Daniels
- Avery Bradley (2019)

If you're about to tell me that that team isn't awful, then you're gonna have to explain why, because I just don't see it.

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

a team with lebron and AD on it is not a garbage team....AD,,howard and mcgee will make it hard for teams to score inside or close around the paint and as a team they will make the playoffs.....now you have to remember where you are at and some posters on this board just cant be honest about the lakers and houston....

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You also need to factor Davis has been injury prone. This Lakers lineup he has is not better than Houston’s or the Clippers.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Your supporting arguments make sense to me.. They just have nothing to do with what my point of contention was.

Again.. We were discussing how well the team might fair once the season starts. We're talking about on court play boss. Within that context, I don't believe they are a garbage squad.. That is all I'm saying.

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Davis stays healthy for one month then gets injured. My Prediction. The Lakers are crab meat.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The reason I say that the Lakers team is garbage is simple, and people misrepresenting it doesn't actually make it incorrect.

If you were to take ANY other team in the NBA and place 2 all-stars on it, and then fill out the rest of the roster will players of the calibre that LA has, everyone would accept that that team was garbage.

I'm pretty confident that nobody would deny that a team with that supporting cast was woefully constructed, lacking talent, lacking depth, lacking quality pieces that fit together.

But because it's LA, and because those two allstars are Lebron and AD, people are acting like this supporting cast is actually just fine. It's not. It still sucks. This team, overall, is still trash. Now, it's trash that MIGHT make the playoffs as long as neither Lebron and AD get injured, because Lebron and AD are both incredible players, but that doesn't change the fact that it's trash. Lebron carried that CLE team to the finals a handful of seasons ago, and that CLE team was trash too. That's the power of a player of Lebron's calibre.

Remove the Lakers blinkers, and ask yourself: outside of Lebron and AD, what is the overall quality of this roster?

- Kyle Kuzma
- Danny Green
- Dwight Howard (2019)
- Javale McGee
- Rajon Rondo
- Quinn Cook
- Jared Dudley
- Talen Horton-Tucker
- Alex Caruso
- Troy Daniels
- Avery Bradley (2019)

If you're about to tell me that that team isn't awful, then you're gonna have to explain why, because I just don't see it.

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I'm going to keep this simple.. Collectively "trash" teams, are lottery bound, not playoff bound.

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

a team with lebron and AD on it is not a garbage team....AD,,howard and mcgee will make it hard for teams to score inside or close around the paint and as a team they will make the playoffs.....now you have to remember where you are at and some posters on this board just cant be honest about the lakers and houston....

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Good point, I was just expecting some objectivity.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Davis stays healthy for one month then gets injured. My Prediction. The Lakers are crab meat.

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If that happens absolutely.. I don't know enough about AD's injury history to weigh in on that matter with any confidence. But I do know its been an issue for him, to what degree I'll leave to you guys.

As currently constructed they might be able to tread water without AD in the line up due to injury. They'll definitely be in trouble without him. As would most teams in the NBA if they lost their best player.