Looks like just the mention of a player and the Pels can cause problems now. Did we dodge a bullet here?
Brandon Ingram has a DVT - a blood clot that forms in the leg (usually when immobile, like on a flight). A DVT can become a pulmonary embolism. That's what Chris Bosh had. It can kill you. He'll need to take a blood-thinning med for a few months. You can't play while on that med.
— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) March 9, 2019
If Brandon Ingram gets 2nd DVT, he'd need to be on a blood-thinning med long-term to prevent a possibly lethal clot. You can't play while on that med because you're at risk of a bleeding episode. Hopefully this is a one-time thing. Otherwise, he may be in same boat as Chris Bosh.
— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) March 9, 2019
Correction: Ingram's DVT is in his arm, not his leg. When I had my DVT, it was in my arm too (it became a pulmonary embolism). Again, this should only become concerning if he develops a second DVT. Going forward, he'll need to stretch on planes, wear compression sleeves, etc.
— Alex Kennedy (@AlexKennedyNBA) March 9, 2019
Brandon Ingram - Blood Clot
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03-09-2019, 03:04 PMRobertM320Brandon Ingram - Blood Clot
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03-09-2019, 03:19 PMPelicans78
If he has a genetic predisposition to blood clots, he'll need blood thinners for the rest of his life.
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03-09-2019, 03:28 PMTinmanIf it is the case, his career will end. I hope this young fella has a 1 off. This would be horrible for that young man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicans78
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03-09-2019, 03:55 PMPelicanidae
Hopefully it's just a one time thing. I don't know what the odds of recurrence are on something like this, but nobody wants to see anyone get their career taken away from them, especially when they're so young. It was sad enough for Bosh, and he had all-star appearances, rings, and over a decade of league experience. Would be tragic beyond tragic to see it happen to someone so young, before they've even had a chance to play for anything other than a bottom feeder.
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03-09-2019, 04:59 PM6warddude
i guess it depends on who you ask....i dont think we dodge a bullet because i didnt believe we was going to trade AD to the lakers before the dead line......now i do think this may have put a dent in the lakers future offer for AD if the new GM look at ingram as a liability..... i think ingram status take the lakers out of a AD trade completely as of now...
i hope him can recover and live his dream... -
03-09-2019, 05:30 PMMythrol
Sucks for him. The risk is high and I'd hate for his career to end like this. Hopefully he makes a recovery and it doesn't affect him going forward.
I wonder how this affects his value? Like Bosh the team that gives him a big contract can always have his money removed from the cap if he's unable to play again, but I wonder if that makes teams apprehensive of trading for him. -
03-09-2019, 05:35 PMPelicanidaeProbably. And as much as it's a cold and kind of callous thing to say, doesn't this re-affirm how waiting until after the deadline was the right move? Imagine if we had taken the final Lakers offer, only for Ingram to come over, have half a dozen good games and then possibly be out of the league. Would have been an unbelievable mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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03-09-2019, 05:48 PM6warddudeQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
its business...you are not suppose to have feelings about others when doing whats best for you.......the way AD and his crew handle this was bad and things are backfiring on the lakers......
it looks like the basketball gods maybe giving us another star in zion by sending AD out,if everything fall right for the knicks....
my question is do the ingram thing low ball us in a boston trade....the lakers dont have anything to offer now so will boston still throw tatum in a deal to bid against themselves if another team dont come with something good?... -
03-09-2019, 05:52 PMPelicanidaeWell, in a world where no other team offers stuff and it's just Boston and LA, then yeah Boston probably pull Tatum now.Quote:
Originally Posted by 6warddude
But considering there's still NY and the Nets, and the potential offers from any other teams like Chicago or Phoenix, they won't really be able to pull Tatum if they want the deal. -
03-09-2019, 06:06 PMMythrol
If Boston pulled Tatum I'd rather take a flyer on Ingram. Tatum is that key to the deal.
Brown + smart and picks ain't cutting it. -
03-09-2019, 06:10 PMPelicanidaeYou'd take Lonzo + Kuzma + the 10th pick over something like Brown + Smart + 14th + 19th + 22nd?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
Edit: Note, I left Ingram out because the risk is that his career is effectively over. Also remember that Lonzo played 52 games in his rookie year, and 47 games this year. -
03-09-2019, 06:18 PMTinmanUh, No!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
But, Tatums off the board, I want Memphis pick also. -
03-09-2019, 06:38 PMMythrolThe idea is flip Lonzo and Ingram, Kuzma, three 1st. You can probably get another first out of the Lakers now due to his injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Yes I'd do that over a Boston package without Tatum. Tatum is non negotiable in any deal. -
03-09-2019, 06:42 PMPelicanidaeFlip them for what? Ingram might not be able to play, Lonzo barely plays as it is, Kuzma is a one way player, and the Laker's picks aren't super high quality. Sure, 10th is good, but it's not exactly stunning, even for two of them. Whereas Boston could easily throw in the Memphis pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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03-09-2019, 06:58 PMMythrolClearly you don't make the deal if Ingram isn't good to go. I mean other players have had the same issue once and never again. A risk yes but one that is treatable and may never come up again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
If we get 3 future picks who knows what that will be. Lebron will be gone by the last one.
You can disagree that's fine but if I'm talking to Boston and they pull Tatum I stop talks. They need AD to keep Kyrie. I'm not playing games with them. Tatum and the Memphis pick 100% locked or I don't continue with them -
03-09-2019, 07:04 PMTinmanI was kinda thinking if we're gonna go the flip route, we'd get more for Smart & Brown than for Kuzma & Ball? No?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-09-2019, 07:06 PMPelicanidae
I understand that, especially from the perspective of a front office, because you try and force them to give up as much as possible. But if it was a vacuum, and you had two options
1) Ingram with the risk of further clots, Lonzo with his injury history, Kuzma + 2 Laker's 1sts
of
2) Brown + Smart + Memphis pick + 16th pick + 19th pick
Do you actually go LA? -
03-09-2019, 07:38 PMMythrolI think you keep missing that I'm saying 3 Laker 1st with the last one being when Lebron is gone. All of these picks would be unprotected. So let's say their pick this year hits at 10. Next year hits at 22. Then once LBJ is gone I think it's a crap shoot. I could so that unprotected pick being high. So Ingram, Lonzo, Kuzma, 10th, 20th, and another mid lottery pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
Compared to Brown, Smart, Memphis 1st, 16th, and 19th.
Yeah I'd probably bank on Ingram and that 10th pick being the best players in that deal. -
03-09-2019, 07:45 PMPelicanidae
I'm not missing it, I just don't think it happens. I don't believe the Laker's give up more than 2 firsts.
I think you're slightly underrating the risk with regards to Ingram. You say that you'd take a flier on him. Well what if there's no flier to take. Ingram isn't involved. He's gone. That's the question I'm asking. If Ingram is gone: not ''if there's Ingram with a 20% chance of there being health issues'', but instead, ''if you get Ingram at all, there's a 50% chance he's gone from the league forever in a year.'' -
03-09-2019, 07:52 PMMythrol
Where are you getting the 50% chance he's out of the league from? Like I said I'd only do the deal if Ingram is medically cleared. I also don't do the trade if they don't add a 3rd 1st.
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03-09-2019, 08:09 PMPelicanidaeI'm making it up. I'm not saying that there's any good reason yet to suspect that. I'm asking a ''what if'' scenario. I do not claim that that's a probability, or even a possibility, I'm not a doctor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
But that's part of my question. You said you don't do the LA deal if they don't add a third first, and you also said you don't do the Boston deal if they don't add Tatum and the Memphis pick. Cool, and I agree that those should be what our FO should be wanting as a minimum. But if neither, do either, then which of the two minimised offers is better?
Edit: I do also acknowledge that this is assuming a binary choice between the two. Obviously other teams could get involved which changes everything. I'm asking of the two diminished offers, between LA and Boston, which is best? -
03-09-2019, 08:31 PMMythrol
Oh. That wasn't my original premise when I said I'd do a trade with the Lakers for Ingram if Boston took Tatum out. And my real answer would be I'd probably do a Knicks deal or a 3rd teams deal over a Boston deal without Tatum, assuming they have a top 3 pick.
However, in the scenario you laid out where Ingram has a 50% chance of never playing again and the Lakers only include 2 picks and I have to pick between Boston and the Lakers I'd do a Boston package without Tatum. -
03-09-2019, 08:38 PMPelicanidaeThat's fair enough, it's totally possible I wasn't clear enough in my question at first. Sorry if that's the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
I think agree that in that scenario, the Boston package would be best, but that if it came to that kind of thing then a third party like the Knicks would be the overwhelming favourite. -
03-09-2019, 08:49 PMRobertM320If a BOS deal has no Tatum and a LAL deal has no Ingram, there's going to be SOME team out there that will take a shot on AD and offer a better package than either of those do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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03-09-2019, 09:00 PMGuardianAngel25
Damn this sucks! That’s alright as long as he can come back 100% doesn’t change anything for me. Would like to see him finish the season but this also doesn’t allow them to increase Ingram’s value if he continued to play at a post all star break to finish out the season. Will not concentrate on a few other. Young teams and packages they will have to offer. That Lakers pick with Lebron and now Ingram our is looking pretty good. They will have trouble winning another game if Lebrons minutes and games are slashed as much as they say it will be.
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03-09-2019, 09:43 PMRobertM320He's definitely out for the season. They're talking a couple of months at least. And it could be just a one off and never happen again. BUT, it could happen again, and his career could be over. Is it worth that risk when there are other options available?Quote:
Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25
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03-09-2019, 09:45 PMPelicanidaeNo. I'd be saying the same if it was Tatum.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertM320
There's a reason Chris Bosh got medically cleared to play but his own doctors, and still nobody has signed him. This is dangerous. -
03-09-2019, 10:22 PMdonato
It’s hurtful from a trade point of view. But you still need to approach it from a point of strength. If the Celtics want Davis they have to pay. We can still keep him and they will never get him. And you need to bargain from that.
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03-09-2019, 11:29 PMtdcreator
It sucks in a couple ways. 1- we can’t flip injured player (Ingram and Ball) along with value their value going down. 2- Boston will see this lower value and drop their offering. Either way it looks like we may get a lot less than we were expecting.
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03-09-2019, 11:45 PMPelicanidaeI don't actually think that's true, by the way. I think the introduction of the Nets as a competitor (remember they reportedly make an offer before the deadline) sort of sits as a baseline below which nothing can drop, and something like Allen, Kurucs, and the Nets 1st is a solid enough deal to mean that Boston and NYC can't afford to try and rob us.Quote:
Originally Posted by tdcreator
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03-10-2019, 01:23 AM13 - 3
Good thing we got Randle instead of Ingram. Acquiring Randle was one of Demps better moves. It would have been really bad if we had traded AD for Ingram. As for Ingram man this is not good but I feel he still can make it. I think he returns next season.
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03-10-2019, 10:08 AMMythrolThis needs to be mentioned more. As much as the "trade AD before the deadline incase he gets injured" crowd balked at the idea of keeping him and the risk of it, we never really mentioned the possibility of traded players being injured or career threatening conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
This adds quite a bit more credence to waiting until the summer to trade AD. Now with the news of Lonzo being shut down for the remainder of the season we'd have been looking at a pretty bad trade package when the top two pieces of it aren't healthy. -
03-23-2019, 09:52 PMtacosman
[QUOTE=6warddude;1483697]
it looks like the basketball gods maybe giving us another star in zion by sending AD out,if everything fall right for the knicks....
[/QUOT
the people who think this(it's not a belief on the knicks forum btw) must not be keyed in on just what the zion factor or the zion level of excitement is right now.
Look at this ncaa tourney right now....there is *one* player everyone is talking about. Whoever wins that lottery...be it the knicks, hawks, us, whoever...all that excitement and buzz is just going to funnel to a more specific destination then. And then we'll see how silly the idea even is.
This is a bold statement, but it's true- there isn't a SINGLE player in the nba right now who would net the Zion Williamson pick in a trade. The greek freak is probably the closest. Anthony Davis, as great as he is, certainly isn't. And it's not really close. And it has a lot more to do with just Zion the basketball player and his overall value on the court in 2019-20, 2020-21, etc.......
Will Zion have a better PER or whatever than Leonard or AD or a bunch of other players in 2019-20? Unlikely.....
but you could ask 100 nba fans who they would be most excited to see play a game next year......Zion would win that poll over everyone. Even lebron and steph. And probably easily. Now not every team needs a star like that to the same degree(obviously the knicks and the garden is a lot different than our situation) from a narketing and entertainment perspective, but it certainly matters.
then you add in the rookie contract scale factor. And his age. And the rookie contract scale factor again. And his upside.
I think we have a shot with a knicks deal *maybe* if they get like the 3rd or 4th pick. I like mitchell robinson and morant. Would they give that for AD? I dunno.....they offered Kristaps earlier, and seeing what they ended up getting for him considering his situation morant/BArrett(who I am less high on) + robinson is a hell of a lot more than that.....so I think there is a good chance they wouldnt part with a non-1 top 3 pick. Maybe if KD were lined up(KD is a hell of a lot more important than Kyrie)
I think whoever the team is a good portion of this forum is going to be dissapointed. I'll be satisfied as long as we get at least one nice piece(Tatum or a good draft pick or something like that)......if it's tatum + filler I can live with that in the end. -
03-23-2019, 10:09 PMmsusousaphone
Meh.
The odds are still against us getting Zion, but if the Knicks get the number one pick (long shot) and Kyrie and KD want to go there, you can bet they would rather play with an AD in his prime than a rookie Zion. They might even tell the Knicks going to them is contingent upon them getting AD.
That's a lot of paragraphs and absolutes for holes to be so easily poked into it. -
03-24-2019, 12:53 PM13 - 3Quote:
Originally Posted by msusousaphone
Looks like Devin Booker is starting a pretty nice dream team in PHX. If they get Zion or Morant look out! -
03-24-2019, 08:14 PMGuardianAngel25This is something I don’t think anybody here can really answer. I’ll leave it up to the DR on something like this. He’s not the only package I want but this doesn’t change anything for me unless a DR says otherwise. I’m just hoping a the right team lands that 1st pick so we can get Zion!Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertM320
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03-24-2019, 08:18 PMGuardianAngel25I think they absolutely would want to trade for AD if they get that pick. I’m praying the Knicks get that pick because I fully believe KD and Kyrie will be Knicks next season. They have the chance to add AD they will do the same thing Lebron did for Kevin Love. People can say Zion is differen then Wiggins well AD is different then Love. Also Zions play style needing the ball in his hands creating for himself and others does not gel with Kyrie or KD. You don’t get a much better compliment then AD for those 2 who can impact a game without touching the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by msusousaphone