Pelicans underwhelmed by Lakers' initial offers for Anthony Davis

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...-anthony-davis

ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski is reporting that the Los Angeles Lakers' initial offers have been underwhelming, including the Lakers' first offer of Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Rajon Rondo, Michael Beasley and a first-round pick, league sources told ESPN. The Lakers have limited offers to two of the franchise's top young players in every proposal, and resisted including more than a single first-round pick in offers, league sources said.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

rondo and beasley lol....i see why demps sent them straight to voice mail...

For real, this offer is garbage. Also, you think Dell is gonna bring back Rondo after that "you have 5 min" b.s. I loved him while was here but would never want him back after that. Him leaving is part of the math that leads to AD's departure anyway.

Yeah, not surprised whatsoever. The problem for the Lakers is that this isn't being underwhelmed by ''initial'' offers. It's being underwhelmed by everything LA has. They can't make better offers. Sure, they could swap out Beasley for Ingram, and that does add youth, but it's kind of like shuffling trash around instead of shuffling garbage. Kind of a distinction without a difference.

The concerning thing about this however, if the Lakers don't make more competitive bids, that softens the market. Everyone is going to work off of the Lakers offers to set the market as he is AD's preferred destination. If this is all they are willing to put up, then why would someone else go all in? AD is leaving and he has to go somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sting

The concerning thing about this however, if the Lakers don't make more competitive bids, that softens the market. Everyone is going to work off of the Lakers offers to set the market as he is AD's preferred destination. If this is all they are willing to put up, then why would someone else go all in? AD is leaving and he has to go somewhere.

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Not true at all. Even if the Lakers made no offer whatsoever, the other teams have to bid against each other. If Boston wants him, they have to beat NY. If NY wants him, they have to beat Boston. Both of them can easily beat the best offer LA can make, so LA isn't even really a factor.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Not true at all. Even if the Lakers made no offer whatsoever, the other teams have to bid against each other. If Boston wants him, they have to beat NY. If NY wants him, they have to beat Boston. Both of them can easily beat the best offer LA can make, so LA isn't even really a factor.

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Nor has LA ever been rally. No assets.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sting

The concerning thing about this however, if the Lakers don't make more competitive bids, that softens the market. Everyone is going to work off of the Lakers offers to set the market as he is AD's preferred destination. If this is all they are willing to put up, then why would someone else go all in? AD is leaving and he has to go somewhere.

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soften the market...man we are talking about AD...teams know the smart thing to do is hold on to AD right now...some team is coming with that wow offer in the summer...we just have to wait 5 or 6 months for it...

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, not surprised whatsoever. The problem for the Lakers is that this isn't being underwhelmed by ''initial'' offers. It's being underwhelmed by everything LA has. They can't make better offers. Sure, they could swap out Beasley for Ingram, and that does add youth, but it's kind of like shuffling trash around instead of shuffling garbage. Kind of a distinction without a difference.

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Yeah,do you kinda get the feeling that the Lakers are somewhat realizing that Punk Paul & LBJ may have Jumped the Shark or Screwed the Pooch by their unethical approach? There BEST offer was a heaping pile & to combine that w/ the snake like tactics, I think that they know that they are 100% off the Pels Trade board. Loomis may Not be an NBA guy, but he is one tough SOB in negotiating. I don't know why the Lakers should be in anymore conversations.

This is all a game between Klutch, LBJ, Magic and the Pels.

This was the Pels taking some shots at Magic and LBJ. That's the inky reason they mentioned KCP like we care about him at all. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Yeah,do you kinda get the feeling that the Lakers are somewhat realizing that Punk Paul & LBJ may have Jumped the Shark or Screwed the Pooch by their unethical approach? There BEST offer was a heaping pile & to combine that w/ the snake like tactics, I think that they know that they are 100% off the Pels Trade board. Loomis may Not be an NBA guy, but he is one tough SOB in negotiating. I don't know why the Lakers should be in anymore conversations.

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I do get that feeling, yeah. I think that the Lakers have realised that really, they don't have a leg to stand on here. That's partially why we have so many nonsense rumours surrounding Boston and NY coming from LA sources. I'm pretty sure I saw Ramona Shelburne talking about NY and Kyrie the other day. She's never talking about NY, she lives in LA and she's an LA reporter. Just sounds like LA are trying to poison the well surrounding other offers because they realise they have nothing to work with.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

Yeah,do you kinda get the feeling that the Lakers are somewhat realizing that Punk Paul & LBJ may have Jumped the Shark or Screwed the Pooch by their unethical approach? There BEST offer was a heaping pile & to combine that w/ the snake like tactics, I think that they know that they are 100% off the Pels Trade board. Loomis may Not be an NBA guy, but he is one tough SOB in negotiating. I don't know why the Lakers should be in anymore conversations.

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The Lakers are still in the conversation because you keep them there to ensure Boston and New York don't back off their offers. If they start trying to lessen their deals you start talking about Lakers.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

The Lakers are still in the conversation because you keep them there to ensure Boston and New York don't back off their offers. If they start trying to lessen their deals you start talking about Lakers.

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Well, OK.

This article by BSS is amazing.

http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...the-narrative/

Honestly, if you read anything today, read this. The Pelicans are controlling the hell out of the National narrative surrounding the AD trade.

If the Lakers offer Kuzma, Ingram, Zubac, Ball (who could be flipped to another team), two first rd picks, and take back Solomon Hill’s salary, then the Pelicans shouldn’t accept?

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Originally Posted by SonOfNOLA

If the Lakers offer Kuzma, Ingram, Zubac, Ball, two first rd picks, and take back Solomon Hill’s salary, then the Pelicans shouldn’t accept?

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Nope.

To give a better answer: not before the trade deadline. Wait until the Summer and see what Boston and NYC are willing to offer. Both of them can do better than that Lakers offer, no problem, so they should be our first priority. That Lakers offer will still be available then, and we'll be able to get competition going for the legitimate best offer.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Nope.

To give a better answer: not before the trade deadline. Wait until the Summer and see what Boston and NYC are willing to offer. Both of them can do better than that Lakers offer, no problem, so they should be our first priority. That Lakers offer will still be available then, and we'll be able to get competition going for the legitimate best offer.

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Boston and NY can both give the Pelicans better picks, and Tatum is better asset. How much better is Tatum and Jaylen Brown for the Pels over Kuzma and Ingram though. It’s kinda risky to wait if KD goes to NY and Kyrie decides to leave Boston and join KD. Boston would no longer be interested in trading for Davis

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Originally Posted by SonOfNOLA

Boston and NY can both give the Pelicans better picks, and Tatum is better asset. How much better is Tatum and Jaylen Brown for the Pels over Kuzma and Ingram though. It’s kinda risky to wait if KD goes to NY and Kyrie decides to leave Boston and join KD. Boston would no longer be interested in trading for Davis

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Free agency doesn't start until July, the Boston trade can be done as early as June 1st. The trade will be made before Kyrie or KD can go anywhere.

So the Pelicans are only talking to them because they need to do so to make sure that New York and Boston doesn't back off their offers, but it doesn't make a difference if the Lakers don't make any offer at all?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sting

So the Pelicans are only talking to them because they need to do so to make sure that New York and Boston doesn't back off their offers, but it doesn't make a difference if the Lakers don't make any offer at all?

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Lakers are always going to have an offer out because they want AD.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sting

So the Pelicans are only talking to them because they need to do so to make sure that New York and Boston doesn't back off their offers, but it doesn't make a difference if the Lakers don't make any offer at all?

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Not really. As long as there are two teams eager to make the trade, you can play them off against each other. The more teams there are involved, the better, because that means there's more pressure and more opportunities for your offer to be beaten, so having the Lakers offer helps provide a kind of base-line below which neither Boston nor NY can drop, but as long as there are at least two teams battling to make the trade, the leverage is still there.

This is Anthony freaking Davis. I want Tatum, Brown, Rozier, and a first

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

This is Anthony freaking Davis. I want Tatum, Brown, Rozier, and a first

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That's some pretty low expectations. Multiple firsts, at a minimum. They've got 4, they can cough up at least 2 or 3.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Free agency doesn't start until July, the Boston trade can be done as early as June 1st. The trade will be made before Kyrie or KD can go anywhere.

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I just hope Davis doesn’t ruin his market value to other teams by getting injured again before then or if he or his agent comes out and say he only wants to play in LAL. He would be basically viewed as a one year rental anywhere he goes. I seen his father text a reporter that he doesn’t want Davis to go to Boston cuz of how they treated Isaiah Thomas. If that narrative becomes louder, then Boston has no reason to give up assets

So.......I want Zion now. Give him to me. Now. NOW CONSARN IT!!

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Originally Posted by SonOfNOLA

I just hope Davis doesn’t ruin his market value to other teams by getting injured again before then or if he or his agent comes out and say he only wants to play in LAL. He would be basically viewed as a one year rental anywhere he goes. I seen his father text a reporter that he doesn’t want Davis to go to Boston cuz of how they treated Isaiah Thomas. If that narrative becomes louder, then Boston has no reason to give up assets

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Davis will very probably not play another game this season. There shouldn't be a worry about that.

AD's agent has pretty strongly pushed the idea that he will only play in LA already. Ainge doesn't care, and on the radio just the other day he said he would be willing to trade for a player with no guarantee of them resigning, if it was the right player. That's AD.

What Davis' dad says has absolutely no bearing. We can trade him wherever we want, and his dad doesn't get a say in it. Boston wants him, and as I just said, they are willing to trade for him without a guarantee that he will extend. If they're willing to do it, then what his dad says doesn't matter, and they are willing, so his dad doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Free agency doesn't start until July, the Boston trade can be done as early as June 1st. The trade will be made before Kyrie or KD can go anywhere.

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BOS can’t trade for AD until Kyrie opts out, which isn’t June 1. They won’t even publicly agree to anything until their season is over, which could be well into June.

A lot can change. Any of Kyrie/AD/Tatum/ could get hurt. Kyrie could express interest in going to NYK. AD or his dad or Klutch could be more explicit and convincing that AD would be a rental for BOS. NYK pick could be 6th, which really takes pressure off LA/BOS to give best offers. BOS could make/win finals. Would BOS really trade Tatum it he’s a key contributor to NBA title, or finals MVP? Horford could opt out - meaning he couldn’t be included for salary. Hayward could continue to suck meaning you wouldn’t really want him. The MEM pick could convey this year, meaning none of BOS draft assets are really elite.

To wait, you have to know the basic outline of BOS deal before deadline. If you know it, you can use it as leverage now. There are so many variables that COULD break in your favor if you wait, but also so many that could break against you. Use the best possible BOS offer as leverage to get the best possible deal from NYK/LAL or surprise team NOW. Don’t actually double down on your risk by waiting. That’s not a really a responsible gamble with the franchise future on the line. Again, the possibility of the BOS offer is probably greater leverage than what the actual BOS offer will be in 5 months, so use it to your advantage now.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

BOS can’t trade for AD until Kyrie opts out, which isn’t June 1. They won’t even publicly agree to anything until their season is over, which could be well into June.

A lot can change. Any of Kyrie/AD/Tatum/ could get hurt. Kyrie could express interest in going to NYK. AD or his dad or Klutch could be more explicit and convincing that AD would be a rental for BOS. NYK pick could be 6th, which really takes pressure off LA/BOS to give best offers. BOS could make/win finals. Would BOS really trade Tatum it he’s a key contributor to NBA title, or finals MVP? Horford could opt out - meaning he couldn’t be included for salary. Hayward could continue to suck meaning you wouldn’t really want him. The MEM pick could convey this year, meaning none of BOS draft assets are really elite.

To wait, you have to know the basic outline of BOS deal before deadline. If you know it, you can use it as leverage now. There are so many variables that COULD break in your favor if you wait, but also so many that could break against you. Use the best possible BOS offer as leverage to get the best possible deal from NYK/LAL or surprise team NOW. Don’t actually double down on your risk by waiting. That’s not a really a responsible gamble with the franchise future on the line. Again, the possibility of the BOS offer is probably greater leverage than what the actual BOS offer will be in 5 months, so use it to your advantage now.

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A trade can be agreed upon and executed at different times. A lot of the draft day trades don't become official until later.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

This is Anthony freaking Davis. I want Tatum, Brown, Rozier, and a first

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Rozier is a FA after the season. They should demand Tatum, Brown, Smart and 3-4 1sts. The only thing the Knick have that beat that is Knox, Ntilikina, filler, the #1 pick (Zion) and 2-3 future 1sts.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Rozier is a FA after the season. They should demand Tatum, Brown, Smart and 3-4 1sts. The only thing the Knick have that beat that is Knox, Ntilikina, filler, the #1 pick (Zion) and 2-3 future 1sts.

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I love the Boston narrative. Those 3 players & hopefully 4 picks. I hope Clips pick is in play. If we have Tatum, Brown & Smart along with Memphis pick(by far the most important), Sac & Clip picks, Pels can do all kinds of wheeling and dealing. That Memphis pick + Sac pick or our own pick packaged can certainly accrue IMPACT.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

BOS can’t trade for AD until Kyrie opts out, which isn’t June 1. They won’t even publicly agree to anything until their season is over, which could be well into June.

A lot can change. Any of Kyrie/AD/Tatum/ could get hurt. Kyrie could express interest in going to NYK. AD or his dad or Klutch could be more explicit and convincing that AD would be a rental for BOS. NYK pick could be 6th, which really takes pressure off LA/BOS to give best offers. BOS could make/win finals. Would BOS really trade Tatum it he’s a key contributor to NBA title, or finals MVP? Horford could opt out - meaning he couldn’t be included for salary. Hayward could continue to suck meaning you wouldn’t really want him. The MEM pick could convey this year, meaning none of BOS draft assets are really elite.

To wait, you have to know the basic outline of BOS deal before deadline. If you know it, you can use it as leverage now. There are so many variables that COULD break in your favor if you wait, but also so many that could break against you. Use the best possible BOS offer as leverage to get the best possible deal from NYK/LAL or surprise team NOW. Don’t actually double down on your risk by waiting. That’s not a really a responsible gamble with the franchise future on the line. Again, the possibility of the BOS offer is probably greater leverage than what the actual BOS offer will be in 5 months, so use it to your advantage now.

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Highlighted all the wild speculation based on little to nothing for you there, just to think about.

AD will very likely not play another game this season. So he's not going to get hurt.

Kyrie could express interest in going to NYK, like he just did the other day in his interview where he said he admired them as an organisation, which actually just increases the Celtics desire to keep him because it pretty much ensures that getting AD turns into a package deal for Kyrie.

What AD's dad says makes no difference, don't let yourself be fooled by it. Klutch have already been pretty much as explicit as possible without just coming out and saying ''AD will sit for any team that isn't LA, if you trade him to Boston he'll retire''. Ainge is still willing, so why should we care if he's making a bad choice in that?

Boston isn't winning the finals.

You tell me where else a 33 year old Al Horford is getting $30 million, then we can talk about him opting out.

I already don't want Hayward.

The Memphis pick could convey this year, but another top 8 pick in this years draft is still a good asset. Maybe not elite, but it's not like it becomes worthless out of nowhere.

I'll repeat everything I've said about 30 times already: any number of things COULD happen tomorrow. Tomorrow, AD could spontaneously combust, leaving a pile of ashes that reads ''I hope the entire Boston Celtics franchise turns into pudding''. Tomorrow, Orlando could pull off a series of ridiculous trades that lands them the first, second, third, and fourth overall picks that they're all willing to give up for AD, and suddenly they're the front runner. Making panic moves now because of a series of half a dozen hypotheticals is the definition of leaping before you look. It is hasty, it is irrational, and it isn't worth the risk.

We wait, because waiting gives us the best chance. It has been repeated by me, Mythrol, Tinman, and others, but I'll say it again: Anything LA can offer today, they can offer in June. That offer never goes away. Trading for trash today doesn't become a good trade just because the trash is guaranteed. It just removes the potential for anything good. Be patient.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Highlighted all the wild speculation based on little to nothing for you there, just to think about.

AD will very likely not play another game this season. So he's not going to get hurt.

Kyrie could express interest in going to NYK, like he just did the other day in his interview where he said he admired them as an organisation, which actually just increases the Celtics desire to keep him because it pretty much ensures that getting AD turns into a package deal for Kyrie.

What AD's dad says makes no difference, don't let yourself be fooled by it. Klutch have already been pretty much as explicit as possible without just coming out and saying ''AD will sit for any team that isn't LA, if you trade him to Boston he'll retire''. Ainge is still willing, so why should we care if he's making a bad choice in that?

Boston isn't winning the finals.

You tell me where else a 33 year old Al Horford is getting $30 million, then we can talk about him opting out.

I already don't want Hayward.

The Memphis pick could convey this year, but another top 8 pick in this years draft is still a good asset. Maybe not elite, but it's not like it becomes worthless out of nowhere.

I'll repeat everything I've said about 30 times already: any number of things COULD happen tomorrow. Tomorrow, AD could spontaneously combust, leaving a pile of ashes that reads ''I hope the entire Boston Celtics franchise turns into pudding''. Tomorrow, Orlando could pull off a series of ridiculous trades that lands them the first, second, third, and fourth overall picks that they're all willing to give up for AD, and suddenly they're the front runner. Making panic moves now because of a series of half a dozen hypotheticals is the definition of leaping before you look. It is hasty, it is irrational, and it isn't worth the risk.

We wait, because waiting gives us the best chance. It has been repeated by me, Mythrol, Tinman, and others, but I'll say it again: Anything LA can offer today, they can offer in June. That offer never goes away. Trading for trash today doesn't become a good trade just because the trash is guaranteed. It just removes the potential for anything good. Be patient.

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MVP needs some scrumpy!

The Laker LowBall is TopTrending on Twitter. Awesome Job by Pels Brass. Make Lakers & Klutch Sports look like mid-level pushers.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

A trade can be agreed upon and executed at different times. A lot of the draft day trades don't become official until later.

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Those trades are usually announced/leaked publicly. BOS aint doing that while they're still competing for a championship. So the earliest you're getting a deal with BOS is when their season ends, which could be into June. As I outlined, there is a lot that can happen between now and then. It's risky and it could pay off for the Pelicans. What I wish people would acknowledge is that there is just as much stuff that could go wrong and it could blow up in the Pelican's face. Right now, unless you're all in on the Celtics deal and only the Celtics deal, the threat of the Celtics deal and what it could be, is the most leverage you'll ever have to get the best deal you can get out of the LAL/NYK. The hypothetical/possible Celtics deal has a decent chance to be better than the actual Celtics deal for any number of reasons outside of everyone's control. You go to NYK/LAL and everyone else and ask for their best and final offers now, because of what the Celtics could potentially offer if everything breaks right. If you get all the available assets - picks and young players - you can squeeze out of those teams, you decide which one you want and make the deal. Once the BOS offer becomes real and actionable, it will set the market. Right now the possibilities will probably set a higher market than the actual offer. There a number of ways this can play out where the Celtics offer isn't as good as we want it or need it to be.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

The Laker LowBall is TopTrending on Twitter. Awesome Job by Pels Brass. Make Lakers & Klutch Sports look like mid-level pushers.

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its a insult to us i think lol...i mean, you have to think real low of dell to offer rondo and beasley smdh.......everyone know that in order to get a convo you have to have kuzma in any deal but rondo and beasley?......maybe the lakers were thinking this is the cp3 trade lol....

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Highlighted all the wild speculation based on little to nothing for you there, just to think about.

AD will very likely not play another game this season. So he's not going to get hurt.

Kyrie could express interest in going to NYK, like he just did the other day in his interview where he said he admired them as an organisation, which actually just increases the Celtics desire to keep him because it pretty much ensures that getting AD turns into a package deal for Kyrie.

What AD's dad says makes no difference, don't let yourself be fooled by it. Klutch have already been pretty much as explicit as possible without just coming out and saying ''AD will sit for any team that isn't LA, if you trade him to Boston he'll retire''. Ainge is still willing, so why should we care if he's making a bad choice in that?

Boston isn't winning the finals.

You tell me where else a 33 year old Al Horford is getting $30 million, then we can talk about him opting out.

I already don't want Hayward.

The Memphis pick could convey this year, but another top 8 pick in this years draft is still a good asset. Maybe not elite, but it's not like it becomes worthless out of nowhere.

I'll repeat everything I've said about 30 times already: any number of things COULD happen tomorrow. Tomorrow, AD could spontaneously combust, leaving a pile of ashes that reads ''I hope the entire Boston Celtics franchise turns into pudding''. Tomorrow, Orlando could pull off a series of ridiculous trades that lands them the first, second, third, and fourth overall picks that they're all willing to give up for AD, and suddenly they're the front runner. Making panic moves now because of a series of half a dozen hypotheticals is the definition of leaping before you look. It is hasty, it is irrational, and it isn't worth the risk.

We wait, because waiting gives us the best chance. It has been repeated by me, Mythrol, Tinman, and others, but I'll say it again: Anything LA can offer today, they can offer in June. That offer never goes away. Trading for trash today doesn't become a good trade just because the trash is guaranteed. It just removes the potential for anything good. Be patient.

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I wish I had your confidence that everything would work out exactly the way I want it to in my favor, and that none of the possibilities for it to work out otherwise would actually happen. Dismissing anything other than best case scenario as wild speculation, and not having to calculate risk and things that could go wrong, must be some kind of privilege...

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Those trades are usually announced/leaked publicly. BOS aint doing that while they're still competing for a championship. So the earliest you're getting a deal with BOS is when their season ends, which could be into June. As I outlined, there is a lot that can happen between now and then. It's risky and it could pay off for the Pelicans. What I wish people would acknowledge is that there is just as much stuff that could go wrong and it could blow up in the Pelican's face. Right now, unless you're all in on the Celtics deal and only the Celtics deal, the threat of the Celtics deal and what it could be, is the most leverage you'll ever have to get the best deal you can get out of the LAL/NYK. The hypothetical/possible Celtics deal has a decent chance to be better than the actual Celtics deal for any number of reasons outside of everyone's control. You go to NYK/LAL and everyone else and ask for their best and final offers now, because of what the Celtics could potentially offer if everything breaks right. If you get all the available assets - picks and young players - you can squeeze out of those teams, you decide which one you want and make the deal. Once the BOS offer becomes real and actionable, it will set the market. Right now the possibilities will probably set a higher market than the actual offer. There a number of ways this can play out where the Celtics offer isn't as good as we want it or need it to be.

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If someone's tells me that I can go to the City Landfill & pick out any off the trash I want. Well, I'm probably gonna say no, I'm gonna try and find fulfill my needs elsewhere . I can always come back to the Landfill 6 months later. It's still gonna look and smell the same.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Those trades are usually announced/leaked publicly. BOS aint doing that while they're still competing for a championship. So the earliest you're getting a deal with BOS is when their season ends, which could be into June. As I outlined, there is a lot that can happen between now and then. It's risky and it could pay off for the Pelicans. What I wish people would acknowledge is that there is just as much stuff that could go wrong and it could blow up in the Pelican's face. Right now, unless you're all in on the Celtics deal and only the Celtics deal, the threat of the Celtics deal and what it could be, is the most leverage you'll ever have to get the best deal you can get out of the LAL/NYK. The hypothetical/possible Celtics deal has a decent chance to be better than the actual Celtics deal for any number of reasons outside of everyone's control. You go to NYK/LAL and everyone else and ask for their best and final offers now, because of what the Celtics could potentially offer if everything breaks right. If you get all the available assets - picks and young players - you can squeeze out of those teams, you decide which one you want and make the deal. Once the BOS offer becomes real and actionable, it will set the market. Right now the possibilities will probably set a higher market than the actual offer. There a number of ways this can play out where the Celtics offer isn't as good as we want it or need it to be.

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You do know there is a period of time between the end of the season, the draft, and free agency right?

No one is saying in the middle of the season Boston will announce the trade. But after their season ends, after the draft picks are known, and before free agency starts a deal can be agreed to and even announced with the paperwork being filed at the start of the new NBA year.

My point is you are 100% wrong when you SAY Boston cannot agree to a trade until Kyrie opts out. They can agree to a trade at any point and execute it later.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I wish I had your confidence that everything would work out exactly the way I want it to in my favor, and that none of the possibilities for it to work out otherwise would actually happen. Dismissing anything other than best case scenario as speculation, and not having to calculate risk and things that could go wrong, must be some kind of privilege...

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That's not what I'm doing at all :hihi:

I'm basing my judgement off information we have available to us. Sure, things could go wrong, they always could. I didn't say ''we should just wait until the summer because we'll get the best deal possible, for sure''. I said we should wait until the summer because the LA offer will still be there and it gives us the maximum number of offers. I said trading right now ''removes the potential'' for genuinely good offers, not that it erases all the 100% guaranteed amazing offers we will definitely get.

My entire reason for wanting to wait is that I'm not entirely confident in my perspective. I want to wait until we have more options, more information, more time to discuss and consider and weigh things up. That's different from the kneejerk perspective that basically just panics at the idea of possibility and scrambles to take the first offer that's given to us, even if it's bad.

My thoughts are based on actual information we know, actual offers that have been made, actual quotes from Danny Ainge/Kyrie Irving, and actual trades that have been made in the past in similar scenarios. Your thoughts are based on a worst-case scenario doomsday panic.

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

its a insult to us i think lol...i mean, you have to think real low of dell to offer rondo and beasley smdh.......everyone know that in order to get a convo you have to have kuzma in any deal but rondo and beasley?......maybe the lakers were thinking this is the cp3 trade lol....

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Lakers are dealing with a NFL GM. Loomis is gonna take Magics lunch Money!

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Rozier is a FA after the season. They should demand Tatum, Brown, Smart and 3-4 1sts. The only thing the Knick have that beat that is Knox, Ntilikina, filler, the #1 pick (Zion) and 2-3 future 1sts.

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What if BOS says no to Tatum? And only 2 1st.

Are you still getting the best offers possible out NYK/LAL when the BOS offer becomes a real offer instead of the hypothetical offer that's out their now?
If the NYK don't get #1, or if their pick falls to 5th, why would BOS still offer you their premier package when the offer from their chief competitor is worse?
Don't the Lakers also lose incentive to go all in with multiple first and all their young guys, as soon as BOS says no Tatum? or NYK don't have Zion to offer?

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

What if BOS says no to Tatum? And only 2 1st.

Are you still getting the best offers possible out NYK/LAL when the BOS offer becomes a real offer instead of the hypothetical offer that's out their now?
If the NYK don't get #1, or if their pick falls to 5th, why would BOS still offer you their premier package when the offer from their chief competitor is worse?
Don't the Lakers also lose incentive to go all in with multiple first and all their young guys, as soon as BOS says no Tatum? or NYK don't have Zion to offer?

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Going forward, you shall be known as the "What If Man"

Here's something no one else is even talking about. There is a moratorium from July 1st to July 6th making it literally impossible for Kyrie to sign as a free agent anywhere.

So even Kyrie announced on the 1sr he didn't intend to resign before he even had a chance to sign paperwork with the Knicks AD could be traded and on the Celtics.

People keep saying what if Kyrie leaves... It is literally impossible for him to leave sooner than a trade could be made.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

What if BOS says no to Tatum? And only 2 1st.

Are you still getting the best offers possible out NYK/LAL when the BOS offer becomes a real offer instead of the hypothetical offer that's out their now?
If the NYK don't get #1, or if their pick falls to 5th, why would BOS still offer you their premier package when the offer from their chief competitor is worse?
Don't the Lakers also lose incentive to go all in with multiple first and all their young guys, as soon as BOS says no Tatum? or NYK don't have Zion to offer?

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This assume all these teams are talking with each other AND believe what the other team is telling them. How are the Knicks supposed to know if Tatum is included in a deal or not? We ain't leaking it. They really going to believe Boston if they call each other and Boston says, "You can lower your deal, we are taking Tatum off the table"?? They gonna believe a Boston Report who "leaks" that Tatum wasn't included.

Nah that ain't happening. They can't risk that the other team is lying just to win the trade waiting for the other to try and cheap out.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Those trades are usually announced/leaked publicly. BOS aint doing that while they're still competing for a championship. So the earliest you're getting a deal with BOS is when their season ends, which could be into June. As I outlined, there is a lot that can happen between now and then. It's risky and it could pay off for the Pelicans. What I wish people would acknowledge is that there is just as much stuff that could go wrong and it could blow up in the Pelican's face. Right now, unless you're all in on the Celtics deal and only the Celtics deal, the threat of the Celtics deal and what it could be, is the most leverage you'll ever have to get the best deal you can get out of the LAL/NYK. The hypothetical/possible Celtics deal has a decent chance to be better than the actual Celtics deal for any number of reasons outside of everyone's control. You go to NYK/LAL and everyone else and ask for their best and final offers now, because of what the Celtics could potentially offer if everything breaks right. If you get all the available assets - picks and young players - you can squeeze out of those teams, you decide which one you want and make the deal. Once the BOS offer becomes real and actionable, it will set the market. Right now the possibilities will probably set a higher market than the actual offer. There a number of ways this can play out where the Celtics offer isn't as good as we want it or need it to be.

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i agree with everything you say about boston and things can change....i also said that danny can say what he want now but come summer the stakes will be different and deals may be high or low....

now after saying that,,we still have to wait for that wow us team to show up in the mix and they are coming...we just have to wait it out..some team is going to want AD and offer something to wow us.....

we know what we can get from the lakers,,boston and the knicks but we dont know what we can get from the surprise team....

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

That's not what I'm doing at all :hihi:

I'm basing my judgement off information we have available to us. Sure, things could go wrong, they always could. I didn't say ''we should just wait until the summer because we'll get the best deal possible, for sure''. I said we should wait until the summer because the LA offer will still be there and it gives us the maximum number of offers. I said trading right now ''removes the potential'' for genuinely good offers, not that it erases all the 100% guaranteed amazing offers we will definitely get.

My entire reason for wanting to wait is that I'm not entirely confident in my perspective. I want to wait until we have more options, more information, more time to discuss and consider and weigh things up. That's different from the kneejerk perspective that basically just panics at the idea of possibility and scrambles to take the first offer that's given to us, even if it's bad.

My thoughts are based on actual information we know, actual offers that have been made, actual quotes from Danny Ainge/Kyrie Irving, and actual trades that have been made in the past in similar scenarios. Your thoughts are based on a worst-case scenario doomsday panic.

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Once more information is known, it's known to everyone. IF NYK don't get first pick, they're less of a threat. It they're less of a threat, BOS/LAL don't have to all in. IF BOS doesn't want to include all their draft capital and Tatum, or Tatum at all, they're less of a threat and NYK/LAL don't have to go all in.

All offers being on the table and having more information cuts both ways. Right now the possibilities of those offers - Zion from NYK, Tatum from BOS - are guaranteed to be the maximum amount of leverage you'll have. Use the maximum possibility to elicit the best deal now. Only way BOS gives you the dream package is if NYK's land Zion. You're gambling the future of this team on a 14% chance that you will actually get to chose between Zion and Tatum, and the Lakers offer remains the same. The most likely outcome by far is that the NYK pick isn't Zion, the Celtics don't have to give you the best package they can, and if the Celtics offer isn't everything they've got, the Lakers offer doesn't have to be eveything they've got.

Just acknowledge that waiting is extremely risky! I'm actually not risk averse, but the risk in this case isn't really worth it unless you believe Tatum is a future All Star. He's a solid starter, but you're going to have to pay him like a star in 2 years.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Here's something no one else is even talking about. There is a moratorium from July 1st to July 6th making it literally impossible for Kyrie to sign as a free agent anywhere.

So even Kyrie announced on the 1sr he didn't intend to resign before he even had a chance to sign paperwork with the Knicks AD could be traded and on the Celtics.

People keep saying what if Kyrie leaves... It is literally impossible for him to leave sooner than a trade could be made.

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Stop being silly. We always know where these players want to go before they can technically go. As soon as the Celtics season is over, Kyrie can let the world know what his intentions are. IF Kyrie is clear that he's going to NYK, the Celtics may still trade for AD, but the offer isn't going to be the offer we can hold over the other team's head's right now as the best offer out there. It will be Brown, Smart, and maybe 1 or 2 1st. Tatum and Kyrie actually have the same agent and are cool, so if they can hold on to Tatum, the Celtics will.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Stop being silly. We always know where these players want to go before they can technically go. As soon as the Celtics season is over, Kyrie can let the world know what his intentions are. IF Kyrie is clear that he's going to NYK, the Celtics may still trade for AD, but the offer isn't going to be the offer we can hold over the other team's head's right now as the best offer out there. It will be Brown, Smart, and maybe 1 or 2 1st. Tatum and Kyrie actually have the same agent and are cool, so if they can hold on to Tatum, the Celtics will.

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Exhausting.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Once more information is known, it's known to everyone. IF NYK don't get first pick, they're less of a threat. It they're less of a threat, BOS/LAL don't have to all in. IF BOS doesn't want to include all their draft capital and Tatum, or Tatum at all, they're less of a threat and NYK/LAL don't have to go all in.

All offers being on the table and having more information cuts both ways. Right now the possibilities of those offers - Zion from NYK, Tatum from BOS - are guaranteed to be the maximum amount of leverage you'll have. Use the maximum possibility to elicit the best deal now. Only way BOS gives you the dream package is if NYK's land Zion. You're gambling the future of this team on a 14% chance that you will actually get to chose between Zion and Tatum, and the Lakers offer remains the same. The most likely outcome by far is that the NYK pick isn't Zion, the Celtics don't have to give you the best package they can, and if the Celtics offer isn't everything they've got, the Lakers offer doesn't have to be eveything they've got.

Just acknowledge that waiting is extremely risky! I'm actually not risk averse, but the risk in this case isn't really worth it unless you believe Tatum is a future All Star. He's a solid starter, but you're going to have to pay him like a star in 2 years.

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That's just ridiculous, frankly.

''Once more information is known, it's known to everyone'' No it isn't. Like Mythrol just said, why would Boston call up New York and say ''oh yeah, by the way, we aren't offering Tatum anymore so feel free to drop your offer.'' We have no reason to think that will happen, and even if it does, the Pels front office will know before we do, and they'll make the trade required before the other team finds out. Your assumption also only works in a binary. ''If NYK don't get the first pick, they're less of a threat. If they're less of a threat, BOS/LAL don't have to all in.''

Uh... yes they do. Because they're still competing against each other. As long as there's more than one team in the running, there's someone you have to outbid.

''Use the maximum possibility to elicit the best deal now'' except what if the best deal is Boston? Who cannot make a deal now.

''Just acknowledge that waiting is extremely risky!'' Where have I said there isn't any risk to waiting? In the post you are responding to, I literally say '' Sure, things could go wrong, they always could.'' and ''I'm not entirely confident in my perspective. I want to wait until we have more options''. That is blatantly acknowledging that there is risk. I'm not going to start ever post with a bolded, underlined, italicised banner that reads ''THERE IS ALWAYS RISK INVOLVED WITH ANY DECISION, PLEASE CONSIDER THIS BEFORE READING MY POST.''

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

This assume all these teams are talking with each other AND believe what the other team is telling them. How are the Knicks supposed to know if Tatum is included in a deal or not? We ain't leaking it. They really going to believe Boston if they call each other and Boston says, "You can lower your deal, we are taking Tatum off the table"?? They gonna believe a Boston Report who "leaks" that Tatum wasn't included.

Nah that ain't happening. They can't risk that the other team is lying just to win the trade waiting for the other to try and cheap out.

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Everyone will know the value of the NYK's pick and whether Zion is in play. The dominoes fall from there. The chances of that working out in our favor are 14%. If Zion's not on the table, you're not getting that all in Celtics offer everyone is dreaming about.