There’s no reason that as fans we can’t cause enough of an uproar on social media and with our dollars that we can’t get this coach and GM fired. I don’t even care if they don’t get better as a result but I’m tired of us trying to ram a square peg into a round hole. It’s crazy. I also don’t how any of you can watch any game not be pissed off the entire time you view it.
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12-31-2017, 09:47 AMNSFWPull a Tennessee and let’s get this coaching/GM tandem canned
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12-31-2017, 10:10 AMMythrol
Exactly what is the square peg in the round hole on this team?
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12-31-2017, 10:33 AMNSFW
It was a metaphor as we keeping doing the same ******** night after night and it doesn’t work.
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12-31-2017, 10:51 AMMythrolWe just had a 3 game win streak with Rondo breaking his all time assist record, the franchise all time assist record, and having the most assists in an NBA game in the past 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW
So, was it broke during the win streak too? -
12-31-2017, 10:56 AMPelicanidaeHey, I have a question. Not trying to be rude or sarcastic or anything like that, but is there anything you actually do blame on coaching? Every time I see a conversation on here about it, you seem to claim that it's an issue with the players effort or IQ or something, and not the coaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
So is our coaching fine, in your view, or is there actually a genuine issue you would concede there? -
12-31-2017, 12:39 PMNSFWWe just lost to two of the worst teams in the NBA on back to back nights. Yes the effort was lacking but your coaching staff builds that culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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12-31-2017, 01:18 PMMythrolMy point in this thread was before we start saying someone should be fired let's nail down exactly WHY they are being fired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
The generic, "same Old, same old doesn't change" is all just nonsense to me. We have won a good number of games this year too and are just coming off of a 3 game win streak before these last two games. So, should Gentry be hired for the 3 game win streak but fired for the 2 game losing streak? What exactly wasn't working when we were winning but no one talked about but sudden the generic "its not working" crops up after losses and we should fire specifically Gentry to fix it.
My issue is people are very quick to blame the head coach and scream he should be fired but without offering any solutions of what to do after said firing and without considering what effect that firing might have on the players we are trying to keep happy. Phoenix fired their head coach... They still suck. So did the firing during the season actually help anything? Has any team in the middle of a playoff hunt that fired its coach during the season actually had a huge turn around because of it? Ty Lue actually had a worse record after taking over when David Blatt was fired and they were already the No. 1 seed at the time of firing.
Blaming the players for on the court actions is a lot harder because it doesn't offer a clear solution as the magical "fire the head coach and everything will be better" stance that so many fans want to take. But, by and large the issues are with the players actions on the court.
Is it Gentry's fault that Cousins and now AD has developed the habit of complaining after driving to the basket and missing without hustling back on defense? Because that was what cost us the game at the end last night. Cousins and AD both did it with 3 or less minutes left and up easy points on the other end because of it. Is it Gentry's fault that AD has been absolutely terrible on switching defense and routinely gives wide open looks to stretch bigs? Is it Gentry's fault that our bench who had been playing lights out the last few games turned in two back to back ice cold performances? Is it Gentry's fault that on the same looks we've shot 3s all season the last two games we averaged 25 and 23% from deep?
See, I blame coaches when their philosophy doesn't work. If our overall had sucked this year, that I blame on Gentry. That would be entirely his fault and I would understand the calls to fire him. But our offense has been extremely good overall this season. The game to game swings that our ancillary players take is not Gentry's fault, it's on the players to keep consistent. Gentry can create the looks with his schemes, the players are responsible for converting. Even the game winning shot last night... Gentry created an open look... AD missed it. Taking wrong timeouts, player rotations, those I fault on Gentry as well but those are a lot harder to judge.
Defensively, Gentry has absolutely nothing to do with it. Firing him would be irrelevant because he has already said Erman is in complete control of the defense. That is why he was brought in. That is his job. Has our defense sucked this year? Absolutely! Should Erman be fired? Maybe, but then who replaces his defensive philosophy mid-season? See I'm not opposed to firing coaches. I'm opposed to firing coaches with the idea that that will magically fix the team mid-season without any idea of who replaces them and no way of knowing what that will do to the team. Now if this were during the summer and not mid-season then sure, go ahead and fire whoever you want. Gentry has certainly not proven he is unfireable.
People love to shout, "Gentry doesn't make the players better. All we need to do is hire a Pop or a Rick or a XXXX and this team would be a contender." great, that's a beautiful idea but those coaches are a lot harder to find and they are only a handful of them in the entire league. Maybe what - 5? So Gentry is a push who relies on talented players to make himself better. Yeah, no joke, probably 90% of all coaches who ever coached in the league is the same way. Even more important, how are we supposed to find that Pop coach in the middle of the season?
Like it or not we are still in the midst of a playoff run. The 1st of Cousins career ever. Has it at times been extremely disappointing? Hell yes. Has the team absolutely thrown away some perfect opportunities to solidify their playoff chances? Hell yes. The difference between me and most fans who emotionally respond to losses with calling for the coach to be fired is, I'm not sure firing Gentry would have that big of an impact.
I see a lot more issues with players not being focused and lacking energy and defensive determination. Can Gentry have an impact on that? Yeah probably, but the players by no means deserve a pass and I think the players have a far larger part in making sure they are prepared. Cousins and AD are supposed to be two top 15 players. They are both deep in their NBA career. They shouldn't need another grown man to tell them, "Hey I know it's the holidays but you really need to hammer down and not lose track of the next game." The player's are the ones who make dumb passes, the players are the ones who take bad shots, the players are the ones who lose the dribble and turn the ball over. This is just a much harder problem to evaluate and fix, so fans revert back to" Let's fire Gentry and all will be better". -
12-31-2017, 01:25 PMNSFW
The “where are the comments during the 3 game win streak” argument is rediculuous. There are games you should win and games you hope to win and games you shouldn’t lose. We lose too many of the games you shouldn’t lose.
Lack of motivation and effort are a direct reflection of the culture your front office/coaching staff provide.
How often do the spurs come out with lack of effort, or the warriors, or the Celtics, or even the freaking 76ers? -
12-31-2017, 01:56 PMMythrolYou clearly didn't read my post if you think that is what I said. This is my exact quote:Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW
"What exactly wasn't working when we were winning but no one talked about but sudden the generic "its not working" crops up after losses and we should fire specifically Gentry to fix it."
Again, if you believe your generic fire Gentry and everything will be better rhetoric is a convincing argument, it isn't. If you want to levee statements like his firing will make the team better, I want specifics of where Gentry is failing and what firing him mid-season would do to fix that. I disagree that lack of motivation and effort is all on coaching or that firing Gentry mid-season will result in more focused players magically. The statement "lack of motivation and effort" is generic to begin with. That's not really saying anything specific. Where are they not giving effort and how is Gentry at fault for it? Why should Gentry even NEED to motivation grown men who are veterans in this league? How do we know Gentry is not trying to motivate them but they are who they are as players and cannot sustain it? Who are we supposed to replace Gentry with that will have any major impact on our playoff run mid-season?
Or is your only solution to fire the head coach and then figure everything else out afterwards? That is again, not a very convincing argument to me. -
12-31-2017, 02:02 PMRheem654Knicks came in 17-18, just one loss more than Pels, 9th in the East. Not one of the worst teams in the NBA. Mavs beat very good Pacers and Raptors teams earlier this week before beating Pels. They beat Pistons and Spurs this month. They've been a better team lately. Still disappointing, but no need to over-state how bad these teams were.Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW
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01-01-2018, 07:03 PMP_B_&_G
I would like to ponder in this thread a bit...
If we get the eighth seed and a first round sweep from the Warriors, will Gentry be sent packing like Monty was? It only took Gentry 3 years to get back to where Monty had the team. The team also improved each year under Monty. I suppose the team has also improved from Gentry's first year as well but we basically fell off of a cliff when he took over. And now we are back to square one it seems.
Just for the record I don't want Gentry fired right now. He needs to finish out the year and we need to see if he can get through to these guys to make them bring it consistently. Coaching is absolutely to blame for consistency problems. If they can find a rhythm, get in sync, and most importantly find the necessary passion night in and night out we will be in good shape. I have my doubts that Gentry is the man for the job just as I did when Dell hired him. I want him to prove me wrong sooooo bad though... -
01-01-2018, 07:11 PMMythrol
My guess would be Gentry is probably fired unless they make it out of the 1st round or take it a full series.
The only thing that might change that is if AD and Cousins speak out to keep Gentry. My bet is we don't have to worry about that happening.
If Cousins is willing to commit to the team, you probably owe it to everyone to bring in a new coach with a better philosophy for managing bigs. I would love Mike Malone because he's a good defensive coach that Cousins really likes but that's a pipe dream. -
01-01-2018, 10:44 PMstormcenter
Time to clean house COMPLETELY.....including the cheerleaders. This team is an underachieving embarrassment. To lose to the Mavs and Knicks on back to back nights at home is INEXCUSABLE.
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01-02-2018, 10:31 AMPELICANSFANKnicks and Mavs combined had 5 road wins on the year before visiting. There is NO excuse for losing both games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rheem654
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01-02-2018, 10:49 AMDroopyDawgIts just more convenient to blame the head coach. I've always been a "players play" guy.. especially in the NBA. A coach's philosophy can lose games, but we have had stretches of good ball, and we've had stretches of horrible ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
Its crazy how schizophrenic this team is. -
01-02-2018, 03:48 PMDroopyDawgPretty much what I said.Quote:
42 mins ago – via Twitter ScottDKushner
Scott Kushner: DeMarcus Cousins today said the #Pelicans have struggled with “a lot” with consistency. “We play the right way three games and play the wrong way for four games. We need to find that consistency and be OK with being a boring team who plays the right way every night.”
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01-02-2018, 04:12 PMPolishFan
This team has so much potential and it is really frustrating when they loose to Dallas or the Knicks. I just hope we make the playoffs but not as the 8th seed. I think we can beat all of them but the Warriors.
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01-02-2018, 04:53 PMnew city champ
DeMarcus--heal thine self! Playing the "right way" would start with you being on the block 90% of our possessions, hustling back on defense instead of jaw boning the refs over the calls you don't get and cutting out the hero-ball turnovers.
As for mid-season turnarounds after firing the head coach, I recall the Nets firing Byron Scott one January then immediately going on a 12-game winning streak, so sometimes it works... -
01-02-2018, 05:35 PMneitzelbaby12
Reminder: Gentry has a team option after this season
Alvin Gentry, New Orleans agree to a four-year, $13.75M deal, including a $4M team option in final season, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) May 31, 2015 -
01-02-2018, 05:36 PMRheem654Fa real. As of now, it looks like Cousins won't be traded at the deadline and is likely to re-sign here (unless Lakers entice him). But if given the chance, I would trade him for Otto Porter (46% from 3, good defender, high bball IQ and mature, team-first attitude) and embrace the new space and pace NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by new city champ
Cousins and Hill for Porter and Gortat
then follow up with a trade for Rubio, a younger, better defensive version of Rondo.
Asik, Ajinca, protected 1st for Rubio
Gortat
Davis
Porter
Holiday
Rubio
-----
Moore
Miller
Rondo
-----
Allen
Clark
Frank Jackson
Diallo
Go into off-season looking to upgrade starting C, add depth with MLE and vet min. contracts, Rondo can re-sign for min. as player-coach mentor role or go somewhere else.
Ultra-ball 3-n-D line-up:
Davis
Porter
Miller
Moore
Holiday -
01-02-2018, 05:38 PMRheem654Ahhh good catch, I was wondering about that. So yea, either way his contract will essentially be done after this season. He should be gone however this season goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by neitzelbaby12
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01-02-2018, 07:37 PMMythrolYes. I certainly think Gentry has some blame in all of this. Well, Erman I think is probably more to blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
But here's the thing. We've seen Erman run very good defenses, heck last year we were a top 10 defense. Gentry has run some very good offenses too. Finch turned Denver around last year.
Are they the best coaches? Probably not. Could they do things better? Yeah probably so.
But what is different about this year and this team than Erman's last year? The players.
I don't think anyone could have imagined just how much of an impact not having Solomon Hill would have on our defense. Then the guy we brought in to be the defensive stopper in his place, Tony Allen, is out too.
We are literally running a 3 guard lineup where Jrue who is at best an average sized SG is asked to guard a SF. Instead of being able to put two top tier wing defenders on the court we are now using our only Positive defender out of position often.
Its easy to blame the coaches and pretend that firing them will have a big impact, but a healthy Solomon Hill would have a far bigger one.
Getting players to play with consistent effort defensively and continuing to run the offense late in games would also be a big help.
That's why Cousins comments trouble me So much. He calls playing the right way "boring". That's a player mentality issue where they somehow view defensive effort and running the offense as boring. I don't think it's a huge shock our offense has increased and our defense has absolutely tanked. -
01-02-2018, 08:13 PMmsw2024Pull a Tennessee and let’s get this coaching/GM tandem canned
If we miss the playoffs...The coaching staff and GM need to go. That is plain and simple. I do not like mid year firings so I will give them a chance.
P.S. Anyone think is far fetched Gentry gets fired and Rondo becomes head coach?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
01-02-2018, 08:54 PMMythrolYes. Benson would never take that risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by msw2024
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01-02-2018, 08:58 PMmsw2024You really think Benson makes this decision or did you mean Mickey Loomis?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
01-02-2018, 10:04 PMEman5805
So who do people want to be coach and GM after Demps? Can we start that discussion in earnest, please?
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01-02-2018, 11:42 PMMythrolBenson has final say, yes. Nor do I think Loomis would risk it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by msw2024
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01-03-2018, 12:48 AMbillfromfinance
Unless the team completely fell apart and players hung gentry out, odds would be in Gentrys favour. He has a team option on the final year of his contract doesn't he? So surely season will just play out and fans can continue to stay silent during the winning periods and then facemelt when we drop a few.
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01-03-2018, 01:24 AMBricklayerThat's the system, sorry. Well, except for the jawing with officials, which is Boogie 101.Quote:
Originally Posted by new city champ
These are the highlights of Boogie's 55pt beatdown of the Blazers last season with Dave Joerger/Sac. Watch where the catches come. That's the difference between a Dave Joerger system, a coach who knows and has coached great bigs, and a Gentry/Finch "modern NBA" pace and space system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZB-v4WKkso
But as I have mentioned multiple times before, complaining about the Pels OFFENSE...is amateurish I guess I'd call it. It's not my preferred offense, but it's gotten so prolific that it looks, and notice I said "looks" because I do not fully trust it, but it looks right now like one of the most prolific offenses the NBA has seen. It's really gotten spectacular. And Boogie, as one of the truly unique big man talents the league has seen, is right at the heart of it. A 6'11" 270lb guy that you can play like a guard, play inside out, outside in, use him to run big-big pick and rolls with his fellow Tower, etc. Complaining about the Pels offense, or Boogie's offense this year, doesn't show much historical perspective.
Here are the last dozen MVP seasons by big men in the NBA, all the big men MVPs since 1980:
Nowitzi '07 -- 36.2min 24.6pts (.605TS%) 8.9reb 3.4ast 0.7stl 0.8blk
Garnett '04 -- 39.4min 24.2pts (.547TS%) 13.9reb 5.0ast 1.5stl 2.2blk
Duncan '03 -- 39.3min 23.3pts (.564TS%) 12.9reb 3.9ast 0.7stl 2.9blk
Duncan '02 -- 40.6min 25.5pts (.576TS%) 12.7reb 3.7ast 0.7stl 2.5blk
O'Neal '00 --- 40.0min 29.7pts (.578TS%) 13.6reb 3.8ast 0.5stl 3.0blk
KMalone '99 -- 37.4min 23.8pts (.577TS%) 9.4reb 4.1ast 1.3stl 0.6blk
KMalone '97 -- 36.6min 27.4pts (.600TS%) 9.9reb 4.5ast 1.4stl 0.6blk
Robinson '95 - 38.0min 27.6pts (.602TS%) 10.8reb 2.9ast 1.7stl 3.2blk
Olajuwon '94 - 41.0min 27.3pts (.565TS%) 11.9reb 3.6ast 1.6stl 3.7blk
Barkley '93 --- 37.6min 25.6pts (.596TS%) 12.2reb 5.1ast 1.6stl 1.0blk
MMalone '83 -- 37.5min 24.5pts (.578TS%) 15.3reb 1.3ast 1.1stl 2.0blk
MMalone '82 -- 42.0min 31.1pts (.576TS%) 14.7reb 1.8ast 0.9stl 1.5blk
would this performance really look out of place on that list?:
Cousins '17 --- 35.5min 26.2pts (.587TS%) 12.5reb 5.2ast 1.5stl 1.5blk
And that's also why, while this is not the way you run a big man team, and it's not the way I would use Boogie, the "fire Gentry for the sake of the bigs" angle really doesn't hold water after you start to look at it. All Gentry's bigs are doing is putting up MVP caliber numbers (a testament to their modern versatility really -- needless to say this system wouldn't work if it was Moses Malone and Bob Lanier out there). Of all the issues, that isn't one of them. -
01-03-2018, 02:43 PMpr1840Need to add turnover numbers for each to see why Cousins is probably not on MVP level - not being used as efficiently as he should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklayer
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01-03-2018, 03:37 PMMythrolHave you not seen the last few seasons and who were MVP candidates? Cousins probably fits in even more with current mvps with his high rate. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by pr1840
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01-03-2018, 04:23 PMPELICANSFAN
Cousin's defense is very frustrating. Watching McDermott get 3-4 shots with Cousins standing right next to him and not even putting up a hand was infuriating. He does not want to use his energy on the defensive end.
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01-03-2018, 07:28 PMMythrolAD has had a big issue with this too.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
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01-03-2018, 08:40 PMBricklayer
Jazz announcers have been reading my stuff -- spent the second half of the quarter discussing whether Cousins was an MVP candidate, and bringing up historical comparisons. :p
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01-03-2018, 10:27 PMAusPel
Bricklayer? More like Truthlayer amirite
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01-04-2018, 10:26 AMPELICANSFANCousins has made comments before about today's NBA being more about offense than defense and I think his attitude is wearing off on AD. Not sure Cousins has been a positive influence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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01-04-2018, 11:33 AMPelicanidaeI'm not entirely sure about that. Obviously AD has been responsible for some boneheaded defensive plays this season, there's no doubt about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
But has his defense overall actually declined that much? He's on pace for more defensive win shares than last season. His defensive rating on the season is 104.6, which is of course not great but also far from disastrous. He's averaging the second best block/foul ratio of his career. In fact, Steve Shea (one of the pioneers of NBA analytics) has a new defensive metric which has AD as the second best defender in the league:
Perimeter, interior and total defensive ratings are back. Currently, Draymond is on top. https://t.co/1cZxvKE8zP pic.twitter.com/ulEymubo4g
— Steve Shea (@SteveShea33) January 1, 2018
The issue to me is his consistency. In the fourth quarter of the Knicks loss, his defensive rating was an astronomically poor 134.4. Yet, the two previous fourth quarters had a defensive rating of 88. Which is awesome. I'm too lazy to check and see if there's other common factors in place surrounding his poor performances, or certain lineups that unlock his defensive prowess, but hopefully the coaches are less lazy than I am and they can figure out how to produce that consistency.