Pretty grim evaluation of the Pels offseason moves. Makes the case that organization is stuck trying to work around past mismanagement of the cap in order to keep Cousins and, by extension, Davis. This allowed Holiday to hold them up for an outsized deal (thereby worsening an already bad cap situation) and limited the team to picking over the remainder bin for free agents. Thoughts?
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/09/14/...or-themselves/
NBC Sports: Pelicans Stuck In Triage Mode
Printable View
-
09-14-2017, 04:38 PMnew city champNBC Sports: Pelicans Stuck In Triage Mode
-
09-14-2017, 04:56 PMDarkhorse985
Somewhat melodramatic, but nothing he said is false. We overpaid Holiday, wasted money on Asik and Ajinca, and have questionable depth at the wing positions. All that being said, this is the best roster that the Pelicans have fielded since the Chris Paul/David West years.
-
09-14-2017, 06:08 PMRheem654
On the flip side, this CBS article was great and very optimistic
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/f...a-vs-warriors/ -
09-14-2017, 10:39 PMMythrol
I wouldn't call signing Rondo as picking over the remainder bin.
But as has been stated before. Our offseason move was trading for Cousins. We just did it early. -
09-15-2017, 03:27 AMpawel
this is the problem with all the grades.
We made our offseason move in February.
We should get at least B if DMC had signed in June.
don't expect any change until the season
even preseason 'success' won't help there -
09-15-2017, 03:35 AMpawel
If Pels won't signed Jrue - the narrative would have been - they are dumb. when they signed him - there is an overpay
AD-DMC combo is seen as a failure, cause nobody wathed Pels games. Only Matt Moore recently wrote the positive article.
If Clippers would have signed Allen and Clark for the minimum - there would have been praise everywhere.
Pels needed shooter. signed Clark. And now Duncan - the Warriors' lover calls him worse than Galloway, and liability on defense.
Rondo and DMC are washed. Have character issues.
Pels construction of team makes no sense. Jrue is a PG.
Dell overpaid for dumping QPon, risking high second rounder.
So on and so on.
Nobody noticed that apart from Jrue's overpay Pels made really really good moves. Without commiting long-term salary. Apart from Jrue.
Going from 40th to 31st in a draft with an additional cost of 800k to select a rookie - should have been praised.
I am not advocating Dell, but this offseason was good.
Frick all the media.
Let the season begin... -
09-15-2017, 03:50 AMmsusousaphone
Most players are no name bargain bins before they start winning. Like Golden State. Or New England in football. A bunch of nothings and then BAM no one will forget them.
-
09-15-2017, 04:00 AMJabberwalkerWho were the no-name bargain bin pickups in Golden State?Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU-Sousaphone
-
09-15-2017, 05:54 AMNOEngineerBargainsAndre Iguidala, David West, Javale McGee, Shaun Livingston and Kevin Durant all signed with Golden State for lower than they would have for teams like the Pelicans. Much lower in several cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwalker
-
09-15-2017, 06:32 AMluckyman
The Pelicans didn't overpay for Holiday. Especially when the contract is incentive laden. And if he does reach those incentives, then the team is winning and he's worth every penny. The end.
-
09-15-2017, 07:02 AMdurun
[QUOTE=pawel;1430951]If Pels won't signed Jrue - the narrative would have been - they are dumb. when they signed him - there is an overpay
AD-DMC combo is seen as a failure, cause nobody wathed Pels games. Only Matt Moore recently wrote the positive article.
If Clippers would have signed Allen and Clark for the minimum - there would have been praise everywhere.
Pels needed shooter. signed Clark. And now Duncan - the Warriors' lover calls him worse than Galloway, and liability on defense.
Rondo and DMC are washed. Have character issues.
Pels construction of team makes no sense. Jrue is a PG.
Dell overpaid for dumping QPon, risking high second rounder.
So on and so on.
Nobody noticed that apart from Jrue's overpay Pels made really really good moves. Without commiting long-term salary. Apart from Jrue.
Going from 40th to 31st in a draft with an additional cost of 800k to select a rookie - should have been praised.
I am not advocating Dell, but this offseason was good.
Frick all the media.
The salary cap limited any offseason moves because signed overpaid role players with long term contracts. The Pels are cap strapped the next two offseasons.
Holiday is ball dominant and too offensively inefficient to be a shooting guard in today's NBA. Allen brings veteran leadership but Rondo was signed for his leadership qualities.
This is deja vu or Perkins revisited.
Signing Rondo makes sense but not after investing longterm in Holiday.
The best offseason news by far is DMC. The guy is in great shape and can carry a team along with Davis. It shows a committment and more importantly it displays maturity and professionalism. -
09-15-2017, 07:34 AMPelicanidae
I think that our history is hanging over us. Obviously we've not been a very successful franchise for a few years, so everyone is looking at moves that appear good in context: the context as they see it is that we are a team which historically incapable of making good moves. Therefore any move we make that looks good must have some underlying degree of stupidity, because the Pelicans just don't make good moves.
I don't expect this sort of downplaying, speculation, denigration, and circulation of trade rumours to stop until we're comfortably in playoff spots at All Star break. -
09-15-2017, 07:51 AMAusPelHe's earning more than AD. It's an overpayQuote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
-
09-15-2017, 09:07 AMPELICANSFANThey overpaid even before considering the incentives. However, as someone pointed out, they were in a no-win situation with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
-
09-15-2017, 10:42 AMMythrolHe absolutely is NOT making more than AD. The 4 remaining years on AD's contract averages out to 26,263,641. Jrue's contract averages out to 25,626,000 because only 128M is guaranteed and the rest is all unlikely incentive.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
That is the whole point, it was reported well before free agency started that Dell's line was always AD. He refused to offer Jrue more money than AD was playing for. -
09-15-2017, 11:16 AMDarkhorse985
Paying Jrue what we paid him when nobody else would cap-strapped our team from making anything other than minimum player moves for the next few years. Cousins is a deserving max player. Jrue is a $20 million player at best. That extra 5-6 million this year would have been like having an extra MLE to work with. So yeah, Jrue is overpaid because no one else would have given him the contract we gave him.
-
09-15-2017, 12:03 PMN.O.BroncoQuote:
Originally Posted by new city champ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rheem654
I think both of these articles hit the nail on the head in their own rights.
The NBC reporter is right about the organizational dysfunction handicapping our present and future moves. The CBS reporter is pointing out where the potential lies in the roster we have constructed. Both good reads. -
09-15-2017, 12:47 PMHoustonPelicans
I can't wait til Jrue breaks out and has an all-star type season at the SG position this year. So all of this overpay talk can be put to rest.
-
09-15-2017, 02:03 PMPELICANSFANI think his contract is $131.8 million with the likely incentives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
-
09-15-2017, 04:49 PMMythrolNBC Sports: Pelicans Stuck In Triage ModePossibly. That's not guaranteed money though. Guaranteed money he is making less than AD.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
-
09-15-2017, 04:59 PMdurun
This season Holiday is being paid about $2M more than Davis. It makes no sense to make him as the team highest paix player then move hiim to another position.
-
09-15-2017, 05:04 PMMythrolThey were signed under two different CBA's and Jrue with a much higher cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by durun
Over the life of AD's current contract AD is making more than Jrue even including likely incentives and that's assuming he doesn't sign an extension or opt out of his last year. -
09-16-2017, 04:39 AMluckymanQuote:
Originally Posted by AusPel
Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by durun
Do none of you understand different CBAs or how to evaluate contracts signed in different years? Do you realize Holiday has been in the league 4 years longer than Davis? And Davis is still only 24 and only on his 2nd contract (an extension)?
I swear. Say what you want about Saintsreport, but there are many more folks over there 1,000xs more knowledgeable about that game. This board is severely behind the 8 ball with all the chicken little posts. -
09-16-2017, 10:18 AMDarkhorse985I just think there are a lot more pompous and arrogant routine posters who can't take people disagreeing with them on this site vs SR which can manage a respectful discussion every now and then. There are more than a handful of people who think Jrue was overpaid. Was it necessary? That is arguable. Name any other players around his skill level who make as much or more than he does. And, whether you disagree or not, Jrue's contract severely limits our flexibility in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
-
09-16-2017, 11:58 AMluckymanWhat even semi-credible source claims Jrue is overpaid? I was told by the usual "sources" he was about to be paid near max. He got nothing near that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
Yes, it was highly necessary. Given the amount of ridiculousness of comparing Jrue's fresh 2 month old contract to something AD signed (extended) in 2015. Thats just dumb. -
09-16-2017, 01:18 PMP_B_&_G
So what do Jrue's numbers need to look like for him to earn his contract? I'll start.
If he plays the way he did leading up to the Allstar break last year or close too it he will have earned every penny amd might even be a good deal. -
09-16-2017, 05:30 PMPelsFan2313Absolutely true. And honestly those posters are the truly ignorant ones. They know who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
-
09-17-2017, 02:49 AMpelicanchamp
Dell gets a B+ in my opinion. Jrue will earn his money. If he had left the PELS we would be in not so great shape. This team is going to prove to the league that they are here to do what no other team can do, dethrone the warriors. We have a great team and we have the right combination of talent to be incredible. Demps is very very good. I think if we are doing well and we had the chance to get better he would trade the pick before the deadline to add more necessary talent.
Watch, Jrue is going to be the X factor for this team. He's going to be playing a lot of SG and PG. I'm not worried about it. He will probably have a higher 3 point percentage this season especially if he gets open shots.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
09-19-2017, 03:33 PMTaker597
They are absolutely right. This team is a mess and constructed terribly due to bad contracts. Wasting and overpaying is our motto. You guys want to be homers when all you have you do is look at the body of work. The Team has been terrible for two years. We have a Combo Guard( Who has a terrible 4 years and no way deserved his contract) , PF, and C... with a couple of decent role players. That is in this mess of roster. We have nothing to sustain success even if we did luck into the 8th seed this year. Sometimes you got to be real... This team is middle of pack and has no means to improve due to cap constants and mismanagement of talent and picks.
Next year... We have to extend Cousin. We can't sneak in a super star shooter and we don't have assets to trade for something worthwhile. We had our opportunity to get another super star before cap strapping us to Jrue with his bird rights. This roster is what we are gonna ride and die with the next 4 years. It's not pretty and it's not a contender. -
09-19-2017, 03:44 PMBricklayerYou wanted a superstar shooter on top of the Twin Towers??Quote:
Originally Posted by Taker597
Goodness. Perhaps trying to build a 50 win perennial playoff team before building a GOAT team contender might be in order.
It's really not a question of more star power now. It's just the right roleplayers rather than a random assemblage. Who was the 3rd best player on the early Twin Tower Spurs? What about the original Twin Tower Rockets? Maybe the ghost of Sean Elliot, who was a roleplayer by that time? Joined in the starting lineup Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro? And it was Rodney McCray -- handy all around swiss army knife -- in Houston. Then a drug addled wreck of a backcourt. Robert Reid, a SF playing PG. Jim Petersen as a 3rd big. Those teams didn't have, or need, 3rd stars in order to make runs all the way to the Finals. They just collected the right roleplayers and ran smart systems to maximize them.
The Rondo/Tony Allen twin acquisitions could be real key here. That's a duo who actually won a title playing together a decade ago. They weren't the main pieces then, and they aren't the main pieces now, but as the outside acquisitions they know how to play together and how to set a championship tone. The hope would be having them together produces synergy and more impact than either would provide alone. -
09-19-2017, 09:12 PMTaker597Do you not see the current landscape in the NBA with heavy emphasis on being good at shooting from the outside. In fact, it's the reason we was lotto team this year with Cousin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklayer
-
09-19-2017, 09:23 PMluckymanBoth Memphis and OKC were bottom half of the league is TS%. The Pelicans were even above Memphis. OKC was better than the Pelicans by 1/10 of a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taker597
Both OKC and Memphis were Western conference playoff teams. -
09-20-2017, 12:21 AMBricklayerEmphasis on "current landscape". I can only imagine somebody telling Mike D'Antoni a dozen years ago "do you not see the current landscape in the NBA emphasizing defense and big man play!?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Taker597
Times change in the NBA. And what you actually see are a bunch of weak kneed smallball wannanbe 3pt chucking teams trying to copycat the Warriors with no hope of ever being as good at it as they are. And of course a whole generation of fans that has grown up with no idea what big men can actually do and think some random semicircle painted out on the court, at varying distances in various leagues, and not even in existence at one time, is the be all and end all of basketball.
Its an entire ecosystem ripe for a fall. Warriors aside. And the Pels in particular are far better equipped with their personnel to stop what the chucking little ballerinas are doing than those teams are prepared to stop what the Pelicans will be doing.
P.S. Memphis, with (and in no small part because of) Tony Allen, has been the worst 3pt shooting team of the decade. And yet with a less explosive big man pairing they have made the playoffs every single year of the era. -
09-20-2017, 01:43 AMmsusousaphone
What people miss on the "current landscape" is that unless you have LBJ on your team, continuity is Kong to his king.
(pause for my word play)
But really. The Warriors didn't go out and get superstars before KD. It's a bit naive to look at their team now and say that it is all superstars but they weren't before they started winning. Winning made them superstars. It was a bunch of draftees with some talent that struggled elsewhere. The pieces didn't just fit together and they won right away. They had to have some continuity first.
Continuity is boring. Just look at the word. I almost fell asleep on the toilet typing it. No sports writer wants to write about continuity. It's boring. It doesn't sell. NOLA winning doesn't sell either. We are a small market. But don't be a sports writer. Be better. Know continuity. Bore people. It works.
Even the Heat needed some continuity to win.
So yeah. We didn't make the playoffs. But guys. Continuity. It's a thing. We have that know. Even Rondo is familiar with Boogie.
Say it.
Continuity.
I believe in you, Taker. You can do it. Make it your word of the day.