Should we keep Jrue on the team next season?

Should we keep Jrue on the team next year?

You are certain it will require a max contract to keep Holiday?

I'd resign him on anything south of 19mil per season. Shift him to SG, spend the offseason trying to find a point guard that is starting quality.

As much as I have been displeased with Holiday's play over the last two months, I still believe that we should re-sign him. Re-signing Jrue adds stability to our backcourt at both PG and SG. Most importantly, it keeps Anthony happy. Also, keeping him retains corporate knowledge of the playbook. Sure, he has had terrible performances since the All-Star break. But, there isn't anyone else that will be on the free agent market I will give top dollar to sign.

As Gentry stated in his postgame interview, this team needs a full offseason to learn the system and play together. I hope the front office looks to adding quality depth along the wings with guys who can the 3 consistently and be substantial guarding opponents on the perimeter. My free agent target list is the following:

SG Anthony Morrow
SG Justin Holiday
SG Jodie Meeks
SG Ben McLemore
SF Thabo Sefolosha
SF Omri Casspi

You should include in your poll how much his salary will count towards the cap which is something like 16mil right? If Benson is willing to overspend then we all should consider Jrue's max as 16mil and he is a steal at this contract.

his cap hold is 16,9

his max is around 33 millions

process it once

process it twice



s..t

There's no way in the world that Holiday should make more than Davis. $1 less a year and I'm happy.

Jrue missing the start of the season is one of the main reasons we missed the playoffs. The other was adding Cousins too late. It would be great if he gives the Pels a discount for sticking by him during his family situation. That is how San Antonio has kept their roll going all these years.

I want him to stay, and think that if we came back with the exact same team we have now we would be in the playoffs easily. We won't lose many games to weaker teams as long as AD and Cousins and Jrue are playing. If we can get replace Asik with another guard of the caliber of Moore, and get Pondexter back we can even challenge for a 4 seed.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

There's no way in the world that Holiday should make more than Davis. $1 less a year and I'm happy.

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in 15 months AD might be third highest paid player in this team

in his prime...

AD is owed 23,775 millions next year

This is fair starting price for Jrue

(in my head I have 4 year 100-105 millions for Jrue)

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Originally Posted by TPDG22

As much as I have been displeased with Holiday's play over the last two months, I still believe that we should re-sign him. Re-signing Jrue adds stability to our backcourt at both PG and SG. Most importantly, it keeps Anthony happy. Also, keeping him retains corporate knowledge of the playbook. Sure, he has had terrible performances since the All-Star break. But, there isn't anyone else that will be on the free agent market I will give top dollar to sign.

As Gentry stated in his postgame interview, this team needs a full offseason to learn the system and play together. I hope the front office looks to adding quality depth along the wings with guys who can the 3 consistently and be substantial guarding opponents on the perimeter. My free agent target list is the following:

SG Anthony Morrow
SG Justin Holiday
SG Jodie Meeks
SG Ben McLemore
SF Thabo Sefolosha
SF Omri Casspi

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With his style of play and the pieces we have on the post(cough) we will be one and done in the playoffs. It doesn't matter what shooters we get. Gentry needs to go.

This can't simply be a yes or no situation. Salary has to be factored into the result. Again anything south of a contract that averages 20mil per yes you keep Jrue anything North of 23 you move on. Anything in between you have to flip a coin.

I for one definitely think the time to decide whether you re-sign a player or not is in the heat of the moment after a loss. One should always let the last few plays of a game completely overwrite the other 46 minutes, because as everyone knows the game is won and lost in the final plays - the first 46 minutes are just there to buffer the time between advertisements.

my decision with 23/year was not made after his turnovers/violation

Jrue is not great as a ball handler. he is best suited with a real PG


maybe basketball gods will smile to us on draft lottery

Fultz-Holiday combo might be deadly :)

low probability, I know

If someone can present a realistic alternative to signing Jrue to whatever contract it takes to keep him then I'm all for letting him walk. I don't accept "future flexibility" though. Not with Cousins on his last year.

hard task

Sign Paty Mills and Darren Collison as a FA. Mills with cap space. Collison with MLE.
Stretch Asik.

1. Sign Mills for 10/year.
2. stretch Asik
3. re-sign Dante (operate above cap)
4. use MLE on Collison

not perfect but leaves options.

30 millions/year for Jrue will be hard to trade in future.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

If someone can present a realistic alternative to signing Jrue to whatever contract it takes to keep him then I'm all for letting him walk. I don't accept "future flexibility" though. Not with Cousins on his last year.

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Just like we had to give Asik his contract because we had Davis and he didn't want to play center! SMH at making the same mistakes.

Giving Holiday the max is more likely to be the reason Cousins leave then it is to make him stay.

We should keep him, but he is not worth the max.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

If someone can present a realistic alternative to signing Jrue to whatever contract it takes to keep him then I'm all for letting him walk. I don't accept "future flexibility" though. Not with Cousins on his last year.

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The problem with this proposition is that you frequently discount the possibilities by saying they're not realistic, or dismissing the talent of the players that could be acquired.

A team with AD, Cousins, and average NBA talent should make the playoffs because those two are great. Watch how frustrated Boogie will be if Jrue Holiday is getting paid more than him and can't get him the ball in the post and turns the ball over in the clutch. Boogie might kill Jrue. Boogie doesn't know Jrue. Whether Boogie resigns with us has nothing to do with whether we keep Jrue, it has to do with whether we stay healthy and make the playoffs next year. Whether we make the playoffs is 100% dependent on AD and Boogie, and the competency of the players around them. If they can't get into the playoffs, the national media will rightly point the finger at Anthony Davis and Demarcus Cousins.

If you lose Jrue, you can sign a guy like Patty Mills (your response will be that he's not leaving San Antonnio because you dismiss all the alternatives and I assume must know Patty Mills personally).

If you lose Jrue you can sign Shaun Livingston or Darren Collison and look for a SG (your response will be that we need to know specifically who that SG is and that Shaun Livingston is terrible).

If you lose Jrue you trade a fake 2nd round pick to the Suns and take Brandon Knight off their hands (Your response will be that Jrue is better than Knight, but he's also paid significantly less which gives us future flexibility, knows AD/DC well, and is 2 years removed from a great season).

If you lose Jrue you can trade a protected 1st round pick for Bledsoe or Rubio (Your response will be that we could use that 1st round pick to fill another hole, but we don't actually have a huge hole at that point, have future cap flexibility, and are likely giving up a pick in the 20s coming off a playoff run).

I could keep listing alternatives to signing Jrue if you like... But you dismiss the importance of future flexibility outright as if it doesn't matter when it's why we've been in the position we've been in over the last 5 years starting with the resigning of Eric Gordon and taking on Jrue, Tryreke, and Asik at above market acquisition cost either in terms of cap or draft picks. If Jrue was a legitimate 3rd All NBA caliber player in a real Big 3, I'd have no problem losing that flexibility. But Jrue is a huge question mark without a clear position, with a history of missing significant time due to injury, and questionable drive/fortitude to improve his game or deliver in the clutch.

If Jrue was Kyle Lowry, Lillard, Isiah Thomas, John Wall, Kyrie Irving... sure, that's your third member of a Big 3, and you can kill future flexibility. But Jrue isn't even Mike Conley. Jrue isn't Tony Parker.
Jrue isn't even Kemba Walker or George-Mutha-Chuckin-Hill!

My limit on Jrue would be close to 25 mil. A year. At that price he's simply overpaid. Anything more and he's so disastrously overpaid that injuries or even a slight decline in ability could easily turn him into a contender for worst contract in the league.

Can Boogie and AD make the playoffs without Jrue? Yes.

Would AD and Jrue be playoff contenders without Boogie? Probably not

Would Boogie and Jrue be playoff contenders without AD? Not even close

Does Jrue elevate AD and Boogie to a Championship level team? Don't think so, unless Jrue drastically improves.

So if your goal is to win a championship, what's the argument for locking Jrue into a long term contract that kills future flexibility?

Cannot make a decision in a vacuum. It all depends on the alternatives. If he presses us for the max, I think we have to move on. He is not worth anything close to the max. We have to look at what we can get to put around him, Boogie and AD and compare it to what our options without him would be.

Not only will they keep Holiday, they are going to add another one. We will have double Holidays.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

We should keep him, but he is not worth the max.

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this

One thing is for sure.... we will find out in July. Three months from now.

Guys Jrue doesn't possess the Skill Set to be a top player in this league.
You have seen it all season long. When he is matched up against the top players he get his ****** handed to him.
We need a young Point Guard not a combo bench guy like Jrue.
He showed again last night why he is average

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Just like we had to give Asik his contract because we had Davis and he didn't want to play center! SMH at making the same mistakes.

Giving Holiday the max is more likely to be the reason Cousins leave then it is to make him stay.

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They didn't "have" to give Asik that contract. They wanted to. I know it's a hard thing to fathom in this moment today, but a few years ago, Asik gave you 12 and 12 per night with a strong presence in the middle and sometimes more.

Things change. With time players can get better, stagnate, or get worse. Asik is the latter but at that time, the contract was justifiable.

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Originally Posted by Buckwheat

Guys Jrue doesn't possess the Skill Set to be a top player in this league.
You have seen it all season long. When he is matched up against the top players he get his ****** handed to him.
We need a young Point Guard not a combo bench guy like Jrue.
He showed again last night why he is average

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This is the most disappointing aspect of his game. Wall, Westbrook, and Curry come here and not only ball out, but get demonstrative and flex about it.

Holiday not only doesn't respond but goes into a shell. Doesn't challenge them and will gladly switch off and hand them to AD, who was most likely playing the 5 at those times.

This is the main reason they've got to seriously consider their offer on the conservative side.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

They didn't "have" to give Asik that contract. They wanted to. I know it's a hard thing to fathom in this moment today, but a few years ago, Asik gave you 12 and 12 per night with a strong presence in the middle and sometimes more.

Things change. With time players can get better, stagnate, or get worse. Asik is the latter but at that time, the contract was justifiable.

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NO. no. no. NO!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Asik has never ever ever been a 12/12 guy. He came close (10/11) his first year in Houston running system that created more opportunities for both rebounds and points, but that's it. Other than that he's not close. The Asik contract was never, ever, ever justifiable. Period. He didn't fit the GSW system Gentry was installing, his body had already started to breakdown, and there were cheaper ways to go about getting 6 fouls and 6 rebounds from the center position.

Matching the Gordon offer from Phoenix was wrong, but understandable. Asik was idiotic and the worst move Demps has made as GM. Worse than trading two 1st for Holidays. Worse than not trading Ryan Anderson at the deadline. Worse than all the moves made to bring in Tyreke.

ASIK IS INDEFENSIBLE!

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

NO. no. no. NO!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Asik has never ever ever been a 12/12 guy. He came close (10/11) his first year in Houston running system that created more opportunities for both rebounds and points, but that's it. Other than that he's not close. The Asik contract was never, ever, ever justifiable. Period. He didn't fit the GSW system Gentry was installing, his body had already started to breakdown, and there were cheaper ways to go about getting 6 fouls and 6 rebounds from the center position.

Matching the Gordon offer from Phoenix was wrong, but understandable. Asik was idiotic and the worst move Demps has made as GM. Worse than trading two 1st for Holidays. Worse than not trading Ryan Anderson at the deadline. Worse than all the moves made to bring in Tyreke.

ASIK IS INDEFENSIBLE!

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Glad you said it. It was a terrible deal made because of the investment made to get Asik here. You can make a case to justify trading for Asik the following contract was as you said "indefensible".

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

NO. no. no. NO!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Asik has never ever ever been a 12/12 guy. He came close (10/11) his first year in Houston running system that created more opportunities for both rebounds and points, but that's it. Other than that he's not close. The Asik contract was never, ever, ever justifiable. Period. He didn't fit the GSW system Gentry was installing, his body had already started to breakdown, and there were cheaper ways to go about getting 6 fouls and 6 rebounds from the center position.

Matching the Gordon offer from Phoenix was wrong, but understandable. Asik was idiotic and the worst move Demps has made as GM. Worse than trading two 1st for Holidays. Worse than not trading Ryan Anderson at the deadline. Worse than all the moves made to bring in Tyreke.

ASIK IS INDEFENSIBLE!

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Agree

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

NO. no. no. NO!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Asik has never ever ever been a 12/12 guy. He came close (10/11) his first year in Houston running system that created more opportunities for both rebounds and points, but that's it. Other than that he's not close. The Asik contract was never, ever, ever justifiable. Period. He didn't fit the GSW system Gentry was installing, his body had already started to breakdown, and there were cheaper ways to go about getting 6 fouls and 6 rebounds from the center position.

Matching the Gordon offer from Phoenix was wrong, but understandable. Asik was idiotic and the worst move Demps has made as GM. Worse than trading two 1st for Holidays. Worse than not trading Ryan Anderson at the deadline. Worse than all the moves made to bring in Tyreke.

ASIK IS INDEFENSIBLE!

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This is called revisionist history at its finest. Find me where you said it was an "indefensible" contract at the time it was signed, instead of 2 years later? The whole idea, at that time, was to keep continuity on a team thought to be on the rise. And 90% of this board was on board with that. Plus the fact that his best year came on a very Gentry like high paced Rocket team. Then similar results his first year here. Hel his first game here was 14 and 17. So he has indeed ever ever ever been a 12/12 guy. He had back and calf issues cropping up, but when healthy, that is what you got back then.

Show me these "indefensible" cries from back then. If not then take those 40 no's someplace else. Stop with the hindsight nonsense or just admit this is what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

This is called revisionist history at its finest. Find me where you said it was an "indefensible" contract at the time it was signed, instead of 2 years later? The whole idea, at that time, was to keep continuity on a team thought to be on the rise. And 90% of this board was on board with that. Plus the fact that his best year came on a very Gentry like high paced Rocket team. Then similar results his first year here. Hel his first game here was 14 and 17. So he has indeed ever ever ever been a 12/12 guy. He had back and calf issues cropping up, but when healthy, that is what you got back then.

Show me these "indefensible" cries from back then. If not then take those 40 no's someplace else. Stop with the hindsight nonsense or just admit this is what you're doing.

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i agree with what you are saying about the posters who are killing asik now but i am on record saying that i dont understand how we are going to make the playoffs again that year by giving gentry, monty team....management sold that crap to the fans real good base on coming off that playoff year.....

our first priority should be to add healthy players
we can't take a chance to sing injured players to play with 2 top10 players
George Hill played 47 games this season - don't sign him
we have Jrue Holiday now 4 seasons in NO
he played 63% of the games
he's getting payed to play 100% of all games
his stats aren't awesome
he’s a good role player, but a player who played only 63% of all games in the last 4 seasons
hes only 26y and should be normally in his prime, but Derrick Rose a former MVP compared to Holiday a former Allstar player, is 28y and should be in his prime too
ik other options aren't the best
best case is still bringing back CP3
also Asik for Knight works
if Holiday is resigned, nearly 40% of the time Frazier is our starting PG
its not even clear, if he misses the PO or not
thats a huge gamble

Anything north of 18 mil per is an overpay IMO. I think we should go after Eric Bledsoe. He checks so many boxes as a point guard. If Jrue walks I would go after Bledsoe and pair him with Ian Clark/MLE.

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Originally Posted by SaintPelican225

Anything north of 18 mil per is an overpay IMO. I think we should go after Eric Bledsoe. He checks so many boxes as a point guard. If Jrue walks I would go after Bledsoe and pair him with Ian Clark/MLE.

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If he doesn't sign with the Pels, then they would be under the cap after clearing Holiday's ~16mil cap hold.Then would they still be able to use the MLE? I read that only over the cap teams can get the MLE. Or maybe we could go back over the cap with the trade for Bledsoe and then qualify for the MLE at a certain date. Wonder how that works

OT, On the leaked Magic offseason board, it was good to see a few Pels players are actually considered by other teams, lol.

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/orlando-m...ans-picture/2/

Attachment 6275

Attachment 6274

Pretty much he's a great 4th best player, part time 3rd best.

So if Pels could secure that position, they could just focus on 3rd best player playing the role of consistent/aggressive scorer who can make the right decisions down the stretch. And he can even be decent/not great defensively since Holiday/Hill specialize in perimeter D but lack in go-to scoring/turnovers.

J.Lin keeps coming to mind as a player who could fill that role and round out the roster well.

Lin
for
Ajinca + Pondexter + 2018 1st

works in trade checker, and makes sense for both sides. They might want to include Frazier, but would be nice to keep him.

Then sign a 3-point/scoring SF with the MLE. CJ Miles would be ideal, but he could get a contract higher than the MLE. Would we be able to keep Cunningham then? Hmm...

Cousins/ anyone
Davis / Cunningham/ Diallo
Hill / CJ Miles
Holiday/ Moore/ Crawford
Lin / Frazier

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Originally Posted by luckyman

This is called revisionist history at its finest. Find me where you said it was an "indefensible" contract at the time it was signed, instead of 2 years later? The whole idea, at that time, was to keep continuity on a team thought to be on the rise. And 90% of this board was on board with that. Plus the fact that his best year came on a very Gentry like high paced Rocket team. Then similar results his first year here. Hel his first game here was 14 and 17. So he has indeed ever ever ever been a 12/12 guy. He had back and calf issues cropping up, but when healthy, that is what you got back then.

Show me these "indefensible" cries from back then. If not then take those 40 no's someplace else. Stop with the hindsight nonsense or just admit this is what you're doing.

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If 90% of this board was on board with it, I was in the 10% that ABSODAMNLUTELY was not on board with signing Asik. LOL, Don't assume I was dumb as 90% of ya'll. Do I look like Michael McNamara to you? He's the one who was preaching continuity and percentage of cap being the more relevant metric for evaluating Asik's contract. I was the one saying smart things like Asik isn't good at basketball.

And if what you meant is that he had games where he got 12 rebounds and 12 points, I'll give you that. But if you say a guy is a double-double guy, that generally means he averaged a double double. If you're calling a guy a 12/12 guy because he had a few games where he put up those stats, but never quite averaged 12/12, that's silly.

Player A has a 5.4ppg, 7.3rpg career average.
Player B has a 7.8ppg, 5.0rpg career average.

Player A is Omer Asik.
Player B is frequently the butt of jokes on "Shaqtin A Fool".

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

This can't simply be a yes or no situation. Salary has to be factored into the result. Again anything south of a contract that averages 20mil per yes you keep Jrue anything North of 23 you move on. Anything in between you have to flip a coin.

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I agree with this 100% no one in their right kind should offer jrue a max contract because he is not a top 10 point guard. He is in the convo for top 15 though

I was firmly against resigning Asik, I thought it was a terrible contact the day it was announced. And I am in favor of bringing back Jrue

i want jrue back...i wont let those mistakes define him..he is 1 of our stars and a major contributor.

Didn't want Asik don't want Jrue at what he will command

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Is there some reason why Jrue wouldn't come out and publicly say that he wants to stay in New Orleans and hopes they can make the numbers work? What would be the downside?

...I mean, that is, if he wants to stay in New Orleans.

Holiday is going to be a Pelican next year. Your just going to have to get over it. Now the question is where does he fit and how much will he cost. Personally, I wouldn't sign him to the max no matter how much of a cap hold he has. It's still pretty stupid to do it. However, I would sign him at 20 mil a year (which is the going rate for guards his skill set). He's a solid player and would be a very guard 2 guard that can shot a solid 3 ball, defend your best guard, and be a secondary ball handler. I would still save more money to get a starting caliber PG whether it's via trade for a decent steal. All he has to do is play good defense, don't make silly mistakes, control the offense, and have a solid jump shot. He doesn't have be a big name player but just average maybe 10 ppg, 6-8 assist, and 38% for 3pt.

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

OT, On the leaked Magic offseason board, it was good to see a few Pels players are actually considered by other teams, lol.

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/orlando-m...ans-picture/2/

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Attachment 6274

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there are 59 names

two from them are Pelicans



there are 30 teams in the NBA. if only every team in the NBA will have 2 players with Magic interest...

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Originally Posted by pawel

there are 59 names

two from them are Pelicans



there are 30 teams in the NBA. if only every team in the NBA will have 2 players with Magic interest...

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Good one. Yea with the way some people on this and other NBA boards talk about what a tragedy Hill's contract is for his production, I thought it was interesting to see him on a list of potential trade targets for another team. Even if it is with so many other players. Was partly said sarcastically. Should have clarified further, I suppose.

How about this solution: You go to the Holiday brothers and offer them 30 mil a year. They can figure out how to split it.

— Michael McNamara (@SilverAndMac) April 7, 2017

Cousins / Diallo
Davis / Dante
Hill / Justin H.
Jrue / Moore / Crawford
____ / Frazier

Then find good PG via trade with Ajinca, Pondexter, 2018 1st, trade exeption, and possibly one or more of Frazier/Crawford/Moore

Lin, Bledsoe, Rubio would be ideal, might have to settle for a less talented player, though

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

If 90% of this board was on board with it, I was in the 10% that ABSODAMNLUTELY was not on board with signing Asik. LOL, Don't assume I was dumb as 90% of ya'll. Do I look like Michael McNamara to you? He's the one who was preaching continuity and percentage of cap being the more relevant metric for evaluating Asik's contract. I was the one saying smart things like Asik isn't good at basketball.

And if what you meant is that he had games where he got 12 rebounds and 12 points, I'll give you that. But if you say a guy is a double-double guy, that generally means he averaged a double double. If you're calling a guy a 12/12 guy because he had a few games where he put up those stats, but never quite averaged 12/12, that's silly.

Player A has a 5.4ppg, 7.3rpg career average.
Player B has a 7.8ppg, 5.0rpg career average.

Player A is Omer Asik.
Player B is frequently the butt of jokes on "Shaqtin A Fool".

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Well I'll just have to take your word for it, because at THAT time, a healthy Asik gave you what you wanted next to AD. That includes 12/12 games regularly. The whole point is its wrong to act as if Dell was a pure idiot for doing it back then. It's was no where near as obvious a bad move as it is now. That's life.

And I was defintlitely one of the few that was never on board with calling Asik an "elite" defender. Unlike some well know bloggers around here. I was always aware of the gaping holes in his game. And yet, I was not against that last contract. Especially compared to what Mozgov got in L.A. Nobody can sit there and say they saw this nose dive coming to the point where he doesn't even get minutes.