Lunch with a trainer

I had lunch today at Lüke with a buddy of mine who also works for the Pels and Saints training staff (well, he works for Oschner, and he is assigned those two teams as he is in sports medicine). We obviously talked about the game last night, and we talked about (among other things) Jrue's min. restriction. Obviously he isn't going to tell me all the ins and outs about a patient, and I didn't care to listen as I would have been lost as soon as he mentioned a medical term. But every player is different, and in short, they call it practicing medicine because it's not an exact science.

Anyway, I brought up our injury history, and I brought up the point a lot of people on this board make. That point is, we have all these injuries because of the medical staff not knowing what they are doing, and or, the medical staff isn't diagnosing and treating the right things, and it's keeping players out longer. He laughed (as did I while I was relaying this info to him), and he said point blank, "whoever says that is an idiot. Do people not understand how much different a typical pro athletes body is as opposed to a normal persons? That's why they are professional athletes. They are bigger, stronger and faster than 99% of the people on the Earth. Their bodies definetly aren't going to react the same to treatments as a normal persons. Do people honestly think we are jumping on players, or hitting them with bats or canes during treatment?"

We moved on from the subject as our burgers arrived, and that was that.

I just thought it was interesting insight from a familiar scapegoat.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I had lunch today at Lüke with a buddy of mine who also works for the Pels and Saints training staff (well, he works for Oschner, and he is assigned those two teams as he is in sports medicine). We obviously talked about the game last night, and we talked about (among other things) Jrue's min. restriction. Obviously he isn't going to tell me all the ins and outs about a patient, and I didn't care to listen as I would have been lost as soon as he mentioned a medical term. But every player is different, and in short, they call it practicing medicine because it's not an exact science.

Anyway, I brought up our injury history, and I brought up the point a lot of people on this board make. That point is, we have all these injuries because of the medical staff not knowing what they are doing, and or, the medical staff isn't diagnosing and treating the right things, and it's keeping players out longer. He laughed (as did I while I was relaying this info to him), and he said point blank, "whoever says that is an idiot. Do people not understand how much different a typical pro athletes body is as opposed to a normal persons? That's why they are professional athletes. They are bigger, stronger and faster than 99% of the people on the Earth. Their bodies definetly aren't going to react the same to treatments as a normal persons. Do people honestly think we are jumping on players, or hitting them with bats or canes during treatment?"

We moved on from the subject as our burgers arrived, and that was that.

I just thought it was interesting insight from a familiar scapegoat.

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Did you ask him to explain the massive discrepancy in players getting injured and time out as a result of that injury, that varies wildly from team to team?

I don't think that's an answer at all lol

No, why? Are you saying the medical staff is to blame for player injuries?

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

I don't think that's an answer at all lol

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No, it was a question

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

No, why? Are you saying the medical staff is to blame for player injuries?

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I'm asking for some semblance of an answer.

What answer do you want, that players should receive miracle drugs that prevent them from ever getting injured.

I would feel awkward going back to him and rehashing this topic (he's a friend and I'm not a reporter), but if you think player injuries are on the staff, you don't understand that medicine is a practice and not a guarantee. How many times do people have set backs in recoveries (not just athletes). Go and compound that because athletes bodies have received so much more wear and tear on them than yours or mine have. Neither of us are running for 30 or 40 minuets at work, or countless hours when we are practicing. The athletes body is much more complex than ours, and if your saying it's not then go and walk on to your favorite sports team and see how that goes for you. Player injuries aren't on the doctors or staff. Heck from previous conversations with him (not directed to the Pels or Saints) he said (and any medical expert here will back it up) they share information with some other doctors to getting the best results and understanding of the issue. These guys aren't going to hold on to an injured patient just to make the money. If the doctor is an ENT and his patient has a joint problem, he is going to refer him to a doctor that can help him. If we have a player who has a health issues our staff isn't equipped to handle they will recommend that player to that doctor.

this is something I would love to dive in to with somebody 'on the inside' like your friend, I'm sure it is a little weird when it's somebody you know, and it's their job, but hopefully you get a not too weird chance to talk about it again. We all talk about how great the Phoenix staff must be - but it's not like the Phoenix staff keeps all their secrets locked away in a vault. These guys jobs are to help people get and/or stay as healthy and fit as possible, and in that line of work they all share information to help everybody get better at it, whether it is at other pro basketball teams, or at retirement community rehab centers. It's not like it's a football team's playbook that is kept under lock and key. The guy running the show in Phoenix I'm sure has shared everything he does with anybody that asks - but they continue to get better results. Meanwhile we've had several (3 I think, is that right?) head trainers since Katrina, and had terrible 'luck' with injuries under all of them. It feels like our bad injury luck has happened often enough that it is more than bad luck. While I might not understand a lot of the answers your friend might be able to give, I'd be very curious what Phoenix has that we don't - or to know that it really is just bad luck, or just a better job at PR by Phoenix, or whatever

I am going for snowballs with him and his family later, I will ask. Heck, if you ever feel down for a game of pickup basketball or dodgeball pm me, and you can come play with us (barring you suck).

So, we're just cursed?

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I am going for snowballs with him and his family later, I will ask. Heck, if you ever feel down for a game of pickup basketball or dodgeball pm me, and you can come play with us (barring you suck).

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Has there ever been a hornets/Pelicans report pickup tournament league?

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

Has there ever been a hornets/Pelicans report pickup tournament league?

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The dialog is on the table now.

You want to make it happen?

I'm in.

Either the question/comment was posed incorrectly or he misunderstood. I do not recall people comparing our players to normal everyday people who visit a physician. The complaints I have read compare our player's injuries to other team's players. All of them are athletes, so the answer is not applicable. I am sure he is not going to say that there is something wrong with our medical staff, but the perception at least is that ours fails in comparison to that of other teams (i.e. Phoenix).

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Either the question/comment was posed incorrectly or he misunderstood. I do not recall people comparing our players to normal everyday people who visit a physician. The complaints I have read compare our player's injuries to other team's players. All of them are athletes, so the answer is not applicable. I am sure he is not going to say that there is something wrong with our medical staff, but the perception at least is that ours fails in comparison to that of other teams (i.e. Phoenix).

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So Phx hires more qualified doctors? The trainers work for the team but use Oschner's facilities, so maybe our medical system is to blame.

If you're taking questions

1) Is what we're seeing with Jrue a normal part of recovery, ie breaking the leg back in for lack of a better term, or does it suggest that the leg hasn't properly healed? He can discuss this in generic terms based only on what we've seen on the court if he needs to.

2) How do they decide when to get outside opinions? These players are multimillion investments so it makes sense to have them see the top specialists available.

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Originally Posted by BP225

If you're taking questions

1) Is what we're seeing with Jrue a normal part of recovery, ie breaking the leg back in for lack of a better term, or does it suggest that the leg hasn't properly healed? He can discuss this in generic terms based only on what we've seen on the court if he needs to.

2) How do they decide when to get outside opinions? These players are multimillion investments so it makes sense to have them see the top specialists available.

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Many of these guys did fellowships prior to any of this. My buddy did his fellowship in another state and got tied to 2 pro teams, 2 local colleges, and a local catholic school. His coworker on the other hand worked with James Andrews. Most of these guys are the top of their fields for sports medicine, so it's not like they are McDonalds where they can do a lot of things, but nothing well. They know their ish.

I will ask him the Jrue question though.

Seriously, if you guys want to get together for ball, and you don't mind making the trip out to Metairie lets do it. We usually play Wednesday. A few years back we had Roman Harper come play (his brother was a regular, and an employee of a gym that one of the guys we play with owns). Pm me and let's do it.

Thank you for sharing

So we're basically not being lucky with our injuries? I mean, compared to other teams, in the last what, 5 years, we've been plagued with injuries pretty much every season. Do you think our medical staff has nothing to do with it? I'm not trying to attack you, just asking what is your take on it, because I honestly believe that we have some players that are injury prone, but in the case of Jrue or Ryno, for example, they've been pretty healthy before coming here, and Davis and Tyreke have been playing throught injuries since coming here as well. Do you think the coaching staff pushes them too hard? Or our athletic department isn't good enought to strenghten our players to hold up against the crazy NBA schedule?

I honestly believe our docs aren't good enough to get our guys back 100%, thus making it impossible for the rest of the staff to get them stronger or more prepared to go throught a full season healthy.

Anybody that has played a sport at somewhat high level hell even HS knows it's not the trainers fault on injuries. I have had multiple surgeries from being injured playing football and not one single injury of the 100s I have had were even 1% the fault of my trainer or staff.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Anybody that has played a sport at somewhat high level hell even HS knows it's not the trainers fault on injuries. I have had multiple surgeries from being injured playing football and not one single injury of the 100s I have had were even 1% the fault of my trainer or staff.

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I had surgery on my left ankle when I was 15, and had to go back to the table because the post surgery physiotherapy wasn't quite what I needed it be in order to play at a high level (for 15 year olds standards) again. That's why I doubt the medical staff has nothing to do with those injuries. The doc told me I was screwed by the physician, and he told me the operation was sloppy, have no ideia who's lying.

he being the physician, might not have been clear.

I think it has to do with the training staff and heres why,
I follow two teams passionately in the world of sport, the Pelicans and a rugby league team in Australia.
MY rugby league team constantly gained injuries left right and centre, it was worse than the pels believe it or not.
This season we gained new medical and training staff, and remarkably out of a 20 man squad during the first quarter of the season, we only had 1 injury and it was minor!

I am sure your friend is good at his trade. I guess the thing that is curious to me is that we stay at the bottom of the league in injuries. Which says to me we are not doing something right.

What that is? Hell, I don't know. I wonder what we aren't doing more so than what we are. I read something on phx that suggested they really break down the mechanics of the body. Work on imbalances and systematically strengthen, way beyond the normal, every aspect of your mechanics. Muscle balance, strength ratios, etc. Also, how progressive are we in comparison to other staffs at the same level?

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Originally Posted by Rafa Brazil

I had surgery on my left ankle when I was 15, and had to go back to the table because the post surgery physiotherapy wasn't quite what I needed it be in order to play at a high level (for 15 year olds standards) again. That's why I doubt the medical staff has nothing to do with those injuries. The doc told me I was screwed by the physician, and he told me the operation was sloppy, have no ideia who's lying.

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I had surgery on the same shoulder 3xs by James Andrews who is considered the best in the world. I don't think my injuries had anything to do with his staff or the physical therapy I was given by him. Most of our injuries are not a result of bad rehabbing but a case of bad luck and just straight up getting injured. Curry for example had glass ankles at one point and people thought he wouldn't last a couple of years in the league and now he doesn't miss a game. Holiday having a stress fracture wasn't a result of poor rehab but because he has been on a restriction people tend to blame the staff. I had a stress fracture and was told I needed 3 months of rest. I didn't miss a single workout and fought through the pain for a month for it to just disappear and never have the problem again. Everybody is different and so are the injuries. These guys are getting surgeries by the best doctors across the country and physical therapy workouts most likely from the doctor who did it with our PT staff following why is given to them. The PT you did at 15 was not to be at the level of a pro and was probably not exactly what you needed. I had 3 shoulder surgeries and PT by the best with constant problems. Also had knee surgery by Andrews and a torn Achilles in my foot repaired by him and his foot specialist to only have it stronger than it ever was with no problems.

Do I think the staff could possibly do a better job on rehabs? Sure but most of these guys injuries are not a result of that but having new fluke injuries they are dealing with. DWade trained in the off season and rehabbed with one of the best ever in Tim Grover but it didn't matter because that trainer isn't a miracle worker that can just take away an injury to never be a problem again.

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

I think it has to do with the training staff and heres why,
I follow two teams passionately in the world of sport, the Pelicans and a rugby league team in Australia.
MY rugby league team constantly gained injuries left right and centre, it was worse than the pels believe it or not.
This season we gained new medical and training staff, and remarkably out of a 20 man squad during the first quarter of the season, we only had 1 injury and it was minor!

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I played on teams with the same staff in football having 10 guys injured while the next season having very little problems along with guys coming back form surgeries playing at a high level. Training staffs can help in preventing injuries but I doubt that was the result in Rugby where one wrong hit ruins your knee. Trainers can't protect that or be miracle workers healing you with a touch of their hand.

We have bad injury luck. That much is obvious. Do we have one of the best medical staffs in the NBA, though? I'd love to know if your friend could venture to say that.

Those teams' medical staffs that are good and excellent, mainly Phoenix, is because they are innovative and non-stop. We never hear anything good about our staff. That's all I'm saying.

Our players don't always trust our staff and always seem to rehab out of state. I don't see Phoenix guys doing that. Just my thoughts. Although I'm ignorant of the situation, our staff just isn't very noteworthy whatsoever.

This is the NBA! I don't see why every team doesn't have a staff like Phoenix!

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Originally Posted by iNolaNightmare

We have bad injury luck. That much is obvious. Do we have one of the best medical staffs in the NBA, though? I'd love to know if your friend could venture to say that.

Those teams' medical staffs that are good and excellent, mainly Phoenix, is because they are innovative and non-stop. We never hear anything good about our staff. That's all I'm saying.

Our players don't always trust our staff and always seem to rehab out of state. I don't see Phoenix guys doing that. Just my thoughts. Although I'm ignorant of the situation, our staff just isn't very noteworthy whatsoever.

This is the NBA! I don't see why every team doesn't have a staff like Phoenix!

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So the same medical staff that basically gave the go ahead for Gordon to get the max basically forcing us to match and has gotten our medical staff blamed for not seeing his problems. I don't see the Suns having some world class medical staff because they have had luck with the injury bug. Stoudemires knees would have failed him there just like Nash's back which bothered him in PHX but just got too old to deal with it in LA. Like I said our staff gets bashed for giving the go ahead on Gordon when really it was the Suns staff that forced our hand.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

So the same medical staff that basically gave the go ahead for Gordon to get the max basically forcing us to match and has gotten our medical staff blamed for not seeing his problems. I don't see the Suns having some world class medical staff because they have had luck with the injury bug. Stoudemires knees would have failed him there just like Nash's back which bothered him in PHX but just got too old to deal with it in LA. Like I said our staff gets bashed for giving the go ahead on Gordon when really it was the Suns staff that forced our hand.

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I said nothing about Gordon. We didn't match because of health. We matched because he was the get in the CP3 trade and still widely believed to be a rising star. If he would have blown up elsewhere, Dell would have lost his job.

The Redskins have had horrible injury history the past couple of years and most notably are Orakpo and RG3. There team Doctor and staff they use is James Andrews who is considered the best in sports. Must be his fault RG3 can't stay healthy along with others guys on the team.

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Originally Posted by iNolaNightmare

I said nothing about Gordon. We didn't match because of health. We matched because he was the get in the CP3 trade and still widely believed to be a rising star. If he would have blown up elsewhere, Dell would have lost his job.

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I never said you did about Gordon. You left him out when our staff got ripped for clearing him to get that $ but not the Suns staff. I think Dell had to match also because he would have gotten the axe but would PHX staff take the same heat as ours did over Gordon? I highly doubt it and it would be pegged as he is just injury prone.

Well, we spoke. Discussions were had. You would be surprised by some of the things I learned.

But first, to GA's point, the PHX staff is so magnificent that they didn't tell the FO, "Hey, hold up, this guy is made of glass." It's not an exact science. Treatment for one guy won't take the same as it will for another guy. Maybe if the players were robots, but no, every person is different. Look no further than two people who go in for the same cancer treetment. One has the cancer completely removed, the other has it in remission and then it comes back. Stuff happens. Not everybody's body works the same.

As to Jrue. We are lucky we are seeing him at all. He SHOULD NOT be playing right now. The fact that he is playing (albeit limited minuets) gives credence to the rumor that it was playoffs of the door for this front office. One party wanted to shut him down for the year, the other didn't. In order to satisfy both sides they agreed to put him on a minuets restriction. His injury is more severe you know. The fact that he is playing, and at such a high level...that's a testament to how good he is, and how much more worried we should be about him getting more minuets in this series.

He told me that come draft combine, our medical staff is one of the most stringent in the business. During the last three combines he has worked in doing medical evaluations on players, and he has worked side by side (they shared a room) with multiple team doctors, and while we look to shy away from injured players, and players with a lot of tread, other teams will gladly grab them. So the info our docs feed back to the FO is what the FO wants to hear, so when the FO tells them "if a guy has problem x, let us know and we will knock him down our board." We aren't removing a guy because the doctors feel his injuries will hurt him moving forward, it's that our front office just doesn't want to take on those problems.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I am going for snowballs with him and his family later, I will ask. Heck, if you ever feel down for a game of pickup basketball or dodgeball pm me, and you can come play with us (barring you suck).

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I am always down to play basketball!


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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

I think it has to do with the training staff and heres why,
I follow two teams passionately in the world of sport, the Pelicans and a rugby league team in Australia.
MY rugby league team constantly gained injuries left right and centre, it was worse than the pels believe it or not.
This season we gained new medical and training staff, and remarkably out of a 20 man squad during the first quarter of the season, we only had 1 injury and it was minor!

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What medical experience do you have besides following teams ?


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