Suppose to foul on 3pt play

Listening to Monty on the radio about the game and he states how we were suppose to foul and that shot should have never happened. Blame whatever you want on him why we didn't hold the lead but absolutely ridiculous your team knows the play and doesn't execute a simple foul. He said we had the same scenario in another game where we didn't foul like suppose to giving a chance to tie it up. He made the call to foul which was right and players simply ignored it.

AD was just saying the same, that they were supposed to foul.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hornets2013

AD was just saying the same, that they were supposed to foul.

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If Pop tells his team to foul there, his team fouls there.

If Carlisle tells his team to foul there, his team fouls there.

If Monty tells his team to foul there, they will fail to do so and bumble their way to the best 3 pt shooter in the West getting TWO chances and being fouled on the 2nd.

Were the assistant coaches supposed to sub Asik or Jrue in during that dreadful stretch where all of those offensive rebounds were given up?

22 offensive rebounds total

that's a lot.

Not going to blame Evans too much there. Of course you're supposed to foul UNLESS the player has a good chance of getting a shot off, and then it's the worst thing you could possibly do. Curry played it perfectly and probably could have fired off a shot for a 4 point play at any moment if he got fouled. Of course we ended up fouling him during his game tying 3 pointer but we got away with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by porculator

Not going to blame Evans too much there. Of course you're supposed to foul UNLESS the player has a good chance of getting a shot off, and then it's the worst thing you could possibly do. Curry played it perfectly and probably could have fired off a shot for a 4 point play at any moment if he got fouled. Of course we ended up fouling him during his game tying 3 pointer but we got away with it.

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You foul him inside the arc and he gets a shot off and makes it, ok, tough break he gets an And-1. But that is a much more statistically difficult feat to accomplish then being allowed to get off a set three point shot. One where we honestly did foul him and should of lost then and there on a four point play.

Well it was split second and Curry has the elusiveness and quick release to make a quick step back behind the arc and fire off a 3 pointer as he gets fouled. Any other player in the world, fouling him will win you the game. With Curry, he's so elusive you can't even foul him hard if you want to.

This team does not listen to what their coach is saying......folks that is a serious problem. He is too much like "one of the guys".

Come on now the opportunity was there to foul before they launched the first or second 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by porculator

Well it was split second and Curry has the elusiveness and quick release to make a quick step back behind the arc and fire off a 3 pointer as he gets fouled. Any other player in the world, fouling him will win you the game. With Curry, he's so elusive you can't even foul him hard if you want to.

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The sad part is Tyreke has been in the league how long? He had to look at Monty to see if he should foul.

Guy is not very smart.

You don't "quit" on your coach in the playoffs... that's something you do when your record is 15-60 with 7 games left in the season. Deciding NOT to foul was a decision made by a player... and Norris Cole knows who was supposed to commit the foul.

Quote:

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"I'm not going to call anybody out, but we definitely did not execute," point guard Norris Cole said. "We did not execute what we said we were going to do. And it cost us."

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That player needs to be held accountable. Not in the media... but to his team.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stormcenter

This team does not listen to what their coach is saying......folks that is a serious problem. He is too much like "one of the guys".

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I agree completely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dcoop

Were the assistant coaches supposed to sub Asik or Jrue in during that dreadful stretch where all of those offensive rebounds were given up?

22 offensive rebounds total

that's a lot.

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Seriously? Omer has been terrible this whole series and last night was no different. Monty's hand was forced and he had to bite the bullet and play small.

I find it funny how you agree with Tyreke's brother, but if you scroll down his tweets you can see him begging for Omer to get off the floor in game 2.


And Jrue has a minutes limit. That was said about a hundred times in each broadcast.

Could of fouled Speights on the rebound at least.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iNolaNightmare

Seriously? Omer has been terrible this whole series and last night was no different. Monty's hand was forced and he had to bite the bullet and play small.

I find it funny how you agree with Tyreke's brother, but if you scroll down his tweets you can see him begging for Omer to get off the floor in game 2.


And Jrue has a minutes limit. That was said about a hundred times in each broadcast.

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Its called situational adjustment. Clearly matching small on small when our guys were gassed wasn't going to cut it. So you have to adjust. Evans was making bad play after bad play from 6 minutes on down in the fourth and we kept riding that horse into botched possession after botched possession.

And if you say we had to bite the bullet and not play Asik to have a chance, then how do you justify Asik starting OT?

You kind of paint yourself into a corner on that one.

The sad part was we fouled him on the make. The refs should have given Curry a 4pt play.

Not sure how the team failed to foul in that situation. It was perfect the ball was inside the arc long enough to foul without fear of sending them to the line for 3FT's or a FT and the ball.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

The sad part was we fouled him on the make. The refs should have given Curry a 4pt play.

Not sure how the team failed to foul in that situation. It was perfect the ball was inside the arc long enough to foul without fear of sending them to the line for 3FT's or a FT and the ball.

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This.

How good is Curry to make that while getting fouled at that point in the game?

Kid is very, very special.

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/...dell_curry.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet

If Pop tells his team to foul there, his team fouls there.

If Carlisle tells his team to foul there, his team fouls there.

If Monty tells his team to foul there, they will fail to do so and bumble their way to the best 3 pt shooter in the West getting TWO chances and being fouled on the 2nd.

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This is crap. Monty hasn't had the depth or longevity to handle the situation the way either of those coaches would be allowed to. Carlisle just banished Rondo. Do you think Monty could do the same with any of his players? Or bench one of his top guys?

He neither has the gravitas or the depth to pull that off, and the players know it. When Jrue was healthy, there were games this year and last when Monty was able to bench Tyreke. Minutes are the only way to get through to some of these players in the league. Monty hasn't had the depth on the wing this season to allow him to "punish" guys for failing to execute. It's not like this team had a comfortable margin to play with in terms of getting into the post season; every game mattered and needed all hands on deck. There wasn't the flexibility to send a message that could've cost them a game for the greater good.

Players weren't given discretion to asses the situation and act as they saw fit. They were told to execute a call, and took it upon themselves to call an audible, or they're situational basketball comprehension is so low that they really didn't understand what they were being told to do and why.

The only way this is on Monty is if Monty doesn't recognize his players low IQ and puts them in a situation where they are required to make the right decision. It doesn't sound like this is the case at all. It sounds like Monty gave them a specific task and a player didn't do what he was told.


This is a young, flawed team. We're contemplating paying Asik over $10m a year, because of the value he brings as a rebounder, yet your team gets crushed on the boards in an epic 4th quarter collapse, partially because you can't play Asik at all. Same thing happened in game two, only to a lesser degree. Like Monty says, the guys have to be accountable and professional, and just be men. It's not the coaches fault we got killed on the boards, that's on the guys and on the makeup of the roster.

In game 2 AD was gassed down the stretch, so Monty gives him an extended breather while RA is hot and we've got a 20 point lead. The thought being AD, our MVP candidate, would come back fresh and be able to close out the 4th quarter with a double digit lead. That obviously didn't happen, and today I've heard folks bashing Monty for leaving AD on the bench too long in the 4th. Seriously? C'mon people.

Has anybody killed Kerr this morning for that off ball foul Klay Thompson committed? I mean seriously, that Steve Kerr is an itiot! That could have cost them the game had Monty not erred in getting AD matched up one on one with Bogut and forced AD to throw up a brick.

I know I'm coming off as a Monty apologist. Honestly, at this point with these players you either have to fire Monty or extend him. This hot seat on the bubble stuff doesn't allow him to utilize the tools an NBA coach needs to use to get through to players in the modern NBA.

I think if Monty threw a public tirade and threw his players under the bus for not rebounding, some of you would be happy. But that's not necessarily good coaching. Monty didn't allow Harrison Barnes to run down the court without being bumped or blocked out to get a put back dunk. That was AD and 4 other guys. Monty needs to correct this in the film room and in practice.

Hopefully whoever is running the Pelicans (Loomis, Dell, Benson) can differentiate between a coach that can't get his players to execute and therefore needs to be relieved, and players who can't or won't execute and therefore need to be moved. Regardless of which approach they decide to take, this off season is critical, and I'm OK with the decision as long as one or the other is changed. Status quo or blowing it all up seem to both be equally unappealing options.

And just to continue what has become a rant... If Tyreke's brothers are close to him and some of the other players, is the organization aware of how he's potentially poisoning the well with his public comments on social media? I remember teams not wanting anything to do with Doug Christie back in the day because of his wife. Can't imagine Tyreke's brother is a welcome addition to the Pelican's extended family.

The end.

You admit in your own post that Monty lacks the gravitas of a Carlisle or a Pop. Or a Thibs. Know who's available to coach the Pellies in 2 weeks? Um ahh... THIBS. The 3rd, 4th, or 5th best basketball coach on the entire planet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This is crap. Monty hasn't had the depth or longevity to handle the situation the way either of those coaches would be allowed to. Carlisle just banished Rondo. Do you think Monty could do the same with any of his players? Or bench one of his top guys?

He neither has the gravitas or the depth to pull that off, and the players know it. When Jrue was healthy, there were games this year and last when Monty was able to bench Tyreke. Minutes are the only way to get through to some of these players in the league. Monty hasn't had the depth on the wing this season to allow him to "punish" guys for failing to execute. It's not like this team had a comfortable margin to play with in terms of getting into the post season; every game mattered and needed all hands on deck. There wasn't the flexibility to send a message that could've cost them a game for the greater good.

Players weren't given discretion to asses the situation and act as they saw fit. They were told to execute a call, and took it upon themselves to call an audible, or they're situational basketball comprehension is so low that they really didn't understand what they were being told to do and why.

The only way this is on Monty is if Monty doesn't recognize his players low IQ and puts them in a situation where they are required to make the right decision. It doesn't sound like this is the case at all. It sounds like Monty gave them a specific task and a player didn't do what he was told.


This is a young, flawed team. We're contemplating paying Asik over $10m a year, because of the value he brings as a rebounder, yet your team gets crushed on the boards in an epic 4th quarter collapse, partially because you can't play Asik at all. Same thing happened in game two, only to a lesser degree. Like Monty says, the guys have to be accountable and professional, and just be men. It's not the coaches fault we got killed on the boards, that's on the guys and on the makeup of the roster.

In game 2 AD was gassed down the stretch, so Monty gives him an extended breather while RA is hot and we've got a 20 point lead. The thought being AD, our MVP candidate, would come back fresh and be able to close out the 4th quarter with a double digit lead. That obviously didn't happen, and today I've heard folks bashing Monty for leaving AD on the bench too long in the 4th. Seriously? C'mon people.

Has anybody killed Kerr this morning for that off ball foul Klay Thompson committed? I mean seriously, that Steve Kerr is an itiot! That could have cost them the game had Monty not erred in getting AD matched up one on one with Bogut and forced AD to throw up a brick.

I know I'm coming off as a Monty apologist. Honestly, at this point with these players you either have to fire Monty or extend him. This hot seat on the bubble stuff doesn't allow him to utilize the tools an NBA coach needs to use to get through to players in the modern NBA.

I think if Monty threw a public tirade and threw his players under the bus for not rebounding, some of you would be happy. But that's not necessarily good coaching. Monty didn't allow Harrison Barnes to run down the court without being bumped or blocked out to get a put back dunk. That was AD and 4 other guys. Monty needs to correct this in the film room and in practice.

Hopefully whoever is running the Pelicans (Loomis, Dell, Benson) can differentiate between a coach that can't get his players to execute and therefore needs to be relieved, and players who can't or won't execute and therefore need to be moved. Regardless of which approach they decide to take, this off season is critical, and I'm OK with the decision as long as one or the other is changed. Status quo or blowing it all up seem to both be equally unappealing options.

And just to continue what has become a rant... If Tyreke's brothers are close to him and some of the other players, is the organization aware of how he's potentially poisoning the well with his public comments on social media? I remember teams not wanting anything to do with Doug Christie back in the day because of his wife. Can't imagine Tyreke's brother is a welcome addition to the Pelican's extended family.

The end.

---

Between the 6 minute mark and the 1 minute mark Evans botched or put no effort on every single offensive possession he was the facilitator. We also gave up basket after basket by giving up the paint or not getting rebounds. We also had Ryno on his hottest night this year. Yet he didn't get a single shot created for him, just one he created himself, and then didn't get a look for the last 4 minutes.

I'm sorry but a couple times you let them play through, after half a dozen times you need to adjust. Re-focus the team. It took til the 3:30 mark for Monty to call a TO and out of that timeout we end up in an Evans iso for a miss and a bucket the other way. No attempt to correct the points in the paint and rebounding issue or get the offense flowing so we can match bucket for bucket again. Evans isolation and shot selection are the problem and you double down on that?

Jrue is back in and we still let Evans botch possessions until by luck at the 1:00 minute mark the only pass Davis can make out of rebound is to Jrue who creates a wide open look for Gordon. The first genuinely created shot in 5 minutes. Who not unsurprisingly misses because the flow of the offense has been garbage for the last real-time 20 minutes.

Monty gets blame here. He sat idle and did nothing to get the team to adjust. Didn't try and correct the issue Evans was creating with offensive flow and didn't address the bleeding on the other end.

If I had witnessed him draw up a Ryno shot out of the timeout - heck even a Ryno post up - or yelled at Evans to let Jrue run the offense, I could of been more forgiving. But he just stood baffled and pouting as things didn't miraculously cure themselves like he seemingly had hoped.

He's the head coach.............end of story and nothing else to say. i don't care how many years or weeks he's been HC in the league. What he says should be taken as the gospel by his players and coaches. I don't think that's ever been the case on this team because he wants to be more like a teammate and not a head coach. It can't be that way. He looked as scared and his players did in the 4th quarter. It's all on coaching.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This is crap. Monty hasn't had the depth or longevity to handle the situation the way either of those coaches would be allowed to. Carlisle just banished Rondo. Do you think Monty could do the same with any of his players? Or bench one of his top guys?

He neither has the gravitas or the depth to pull that off, and the players know it. When Jrue was healthy, there were games this year and last when Monty was able to bench Tyreke. Minutes are the only way to get through to some of these players in the league. Monty hasn't had the depth on the wing this season to allow him to "punish" guys for failing to execute. It's not like this team had a comfortable margin to play with in terms of getting into the post season; every game mattered and needed all hands on deck. There wasn't the flexibility to send a message that could've cost them a game for the greater good.

Players weren't given discretion to asses the situation and act as they saw fit. They were told to execute a call, and took it upon themselves to call an audible, or they're situational basketball comprehension is so low that they really didn't understand what they were being told to do and why.

The only way this is on Monty is if Monty doesn't recognize his players low IQ and puts them in a situation where they are required to make the right decision. It doesn't sound like this is the case at all. It sounds like Monty gave them a specific task and a player didn't do what he was told.


This is a young, flawed team. We're contemplating paying Asik over $10m a year, because of the value he brings as a rebounder, yet your team gets crushed on the boards in an epic 4th quarter collapse, partially because you can't play Asik at all. Same thing happened in game two, only to a lesser degree. Like Monty says, the guys have to be accountable and professional, and just be men. It's not the coaches fault we got killed on the boards, that's on the guys and on the makeup of the roster.

In game 2 AD was gassed down the stretch, so Monty gives him an extended breather while RA is hot and we've got a 20 point lead. The thought being AD, our MVP candidate, would come back fresh and be able to close out the 4th quarter with a double digit lead. That obviously didn't happen, and today I've heard folks bashing Monty for leaving AD on the bench too long in the 4th. Seriously? C'mon people.

Has anybody killed Kerr this morning for that off ball foul Klay Thompson committed? I mean seriously, that Steve Kerr is an itiot! That could have cost them the game had Monty not erred in getting AD matched up one on one with Bogut and forced AD to throw up a brick.

I know I'm coming off as a Monty apologist. Honestly, at this point with these players you either have to fire Monty or extend him. This hot seat on the bubble stuff doesn't allow him to utilize the tools an NBA coach needs to use to get through to players in the modern NBA.

I think if Monty threw a public tirade and threw his players under the bus for not rebounding, some of you would be happy. But that's not necessarily good coaching. Monty didn't allow Harrison Barnes to run down the court without being bumped or blocked out to get a put back dunk. That was AD and 4 other guys. Monty needs to correct this in the film room and in practice.

Hopefully whoever is running the Pelicans (Loomis, Dell, Benson) can differentiate between a coach that can't get his players to execute and therefore needs to be relieved, and players who can't or won't execute and therefore need to be moved. Regardless of which approach they decide to take, this off season is critical, and I'm OK with the decision as long as one or the other is changed. Status quo or blowing it all up seem to both be equally unappealing options.

And just to continue what has become a rant... If Tyreke's brothers are close to him and some of the other players, is the organization aware of how he's potentially poisoning the well with his public comments on social media? I remember teams not wanting anything to do with Doug Christie back in the day because of his wife. Can't imagine Tyreke's brother is a welcome addition to the Pelican's extended family.

The end.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet

You admit in your own post that Monty lacks the gravitas of a Carlisle or a Pop. Or a Thibs. Know who's available to coach the Pellies in 2 weeks? Um ahh... THIBS. The 3rd, 4th, or 5th best basketball coach on the entire planet.

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This was a test. And you failed.

i said to myself, I bet WisconsinHornet would pull this one line out and comment on it. I didn't say at all that Monty lacks the gravitas of "a Carlisle or a Pop." He specifically lacks the gravitas of CARLISLE and POP. Two individuals. That have won championships and have the 120% backing of ownership. The deification of Thibs has to stop. What has he won? How many eastern conf finals has played in? How many has he won? He's in the f'kn Easter Conference, for christ's sake!

Thibs would have run this brittle team into the ground. And Thibs (or any other NBA coach for that matter), if placed on the hotseat by ownership, wouldn't have had any better success getting a back court with the IQ of Tyreke Evans and Eric Gordon to be the NBA version of the Hart Foundation (The Excellence of Execution)!

Thibs. Get out of here.

Thibs got outcoached by the video guy for the Miami Heat (Eric Spoelstra) and Randy Wittman.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet

If Pop tells his team to foul there, his team fouls there.

If Carlisle tells his team to foul there, his team fouls there.

If Monty tells his team to foul there, they will fail to do so and bumble their way to the best 3 pt shooter in the West getting TWO chances and being fouled on the 2nd.

---

:help:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stormcenter

He's the head coach.............end of story and nothing else to say. i don't care how many years or weeks he's been HC in the league. What he says should be taken as the gospel by his players and coaches. I don't think that's ever been the case on this team because he wants to be more like a teammate and not a head coach. It can't be that way. He looked as scared and his players did in the 4th quarter. It's all on coaching.

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Where does this idea that Monty wants to be more like a teammate and not a head coach come from? I keep seeing folks repeat it as if it's gospel, but have no idea why people accept it as truth. How is Monty's relationship with his players different than that of Steve Kerr with his players?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Where does this idea that Monty wants to be more like a teammate and not a head coach come from? I keep seeing folks repeat it as if it's gospel, but have no idea why people accept it as truth. How is Monty's relationship with his players different than that of Steve Kerr with his players?

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He seems wayyyyyyyyyyy too nice to me to be a disciplined head coach.

I honestly think he should be the team's Chaplain.

Father Williams he should be, not head coach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This was a test. And you failed.

i said to myself, I bet WisconsinHornet would pull this one line out and comment on it. I didn't say at all that Monty lacks the gravitas of "a Carlisle or a Pop." He specifically lacks the gravitas of CARLISLE and POP. Two individuals. That have won championships and have the 120% backing of ownership. The deification of Thibs has to stop. What has he won? How many eastern conf finals has played in? How many has he won? He's in the f'kn Easter Conference, for christ's sake!

Thibs would have run this brittle team into the ground. And Thibs (or any other NBA coach for that matter), if placed on the hotseat by ownership, wouldn't have had any better success getting a back court with the IQ of Tyreke Evans and Eric Gordon to be the NBA version of the Hart Foundation (The Excellence of Execution)!

Thibs. Get out of here.

Thibs got outcoached by the video guy for the Miami Heat (Eric Spoelstra) and Randy Wittman.

---

So Thibs, who took his first year team to the Eastern Conference finals and then, despite losing Rose every season, has made the playoffs and never fell below 45 wins hasn't proven anything, but Monty gets a pass on that metric?

As for his backcourt success, he actually has a damn good track record. Has revitalized several careers, or at least got them to produce in his system effectively.

Not sure the Thibs hate. The only true knock people have on him are outside of his X's and O's and his system. Of which a lot is speculation. But probably a good bit of truth to it. What you are talking about is pretty hyperbolic and speculative.

For one where is this evidence that Monty doesnt have the ability to bench players?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Between the 6 minute mark and the 1 minute mark Evans botched or put no effort on every single offensive possession he was the facilitator. We also gave up basket after basket by giving up the paint or not getting rebounds. We also had Ryno on his hottest night this year. Yet he didn't get a single shot created for him, just one he created himself, and then didn't get a look for the last 4 minutes.

I'm sorry but a couple times you let them play through, after half a dozen times you need to adjust. Re-focus the team. It took til the 3:30 mark for Monty to call a TO and out of that timeout we end up in an Evans iso for a miss and a bucket the other way. No attempt to correct the points in the paint and rebounding issue or get the offense flowing so we can match bucket for bucket again. Evans isolation and shot selection are the problem and you double down on that?

Jrue is back in and we still let Evans botch possessions until by luck at the 1:00 minute mark the only pass Davis can make out of rebound is to Jrue who creates a wide open look for Gordon. The first genuinely created shot in 5 minutes. Who not unsurprisingly misses because the flow of the offense has been garbage for the last real-time 20 minutes.

Monty gets blame here. He sat idle and did nothing to get the team to adjust. Didn't try and correct the issue Evans was creating with offensive flow and didn't address the bleeding on the other end.

If I had witnessed him draw up a Ryno shot out of the timeout - heck even a Ryno post up - or yelled at Evans to let Jrue run the offense, I could of been more forgiving. But he just stood baffled and pouting as things didn't miraculously cure themselves like he seemingly had hoped.

---

I'm not an usher at the arena, I promise you, but are your seats next to, or directly behind the bench? Just curious.

I fault Monty for not being able to coach Tyreke. There is obviously a Tyreke/Monty problem in terms of being on the same bball wavelength. Tyreke is not an extension of the coach on the floor. But the solution is either you move Tyreke or you replace Monty, and I'm not convinced Coach K or Phil Jackson would be able to minimize the negative of Tyreke's game and increase his abilities/willingness to execute within the offense.

How would you have addressed the issues last night in the 4th? You're blaming Monty for sitting idly by, but I don't understand specifically what you would have had him do? From my perspective, and my seats may not be as good as yours if you're sitting next to or behind the bench, Monty repeatedly told players what needed to be done and the players didn't or couldn't do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I'm not an usher at the arena, I promise you, but are your seats next to, or directly behind the bench? Just curious.

I fault Monty for not being able to coach Tyreke. There is obviously a Tyreke/Monty problem in terms of being on the same bball wavelength. Tyreke is not an extension of the coach on the floor. But the solution is either you move Tyreke or you replace Monty, and I'm not convinced Coach K or Phil Jackson would be able to minimize the negative of Tyreke's game and increase his abilities/willingness to execute within the offense.

How would you have addressed the issues last night in the 4th? You're blaming Monty for sitting idly by, but I don't understand specifically what you would have had him do? From my perspective, and my seats may not be as good as yours if you're sitting next to or behind the bench, Monty repeatedly told players what needed to be done and the players didn't or couldn't do it.

---

This has been a season long issue.

Truth is, contending teams don't have boneheads as their number 2 guy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

So Thibs, who took his first year team to the Eastern Conference finals and then, despite losing Rose every season, has made the playoffs and never fell below 45 wins hasn't proven anything, but Monty gets a pass on that metric?

As for his backcourt success, he actually has a damn good track record. Has revitalized several careers, or at least got them to produce in his system effectively.

Not sure the Thibs hate. The only true knock people have on him are outside of his X's and O's and his system. Of which a lot is speculation. But probably a good bit of truth to it. What you are talking about is pretty hyperbolic and speculative.

For one where is this evidence that Monty doesnt have the ability to bench players?

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It's the E A S T E R N ...C O N F E R E N C E.

You know who else gets their team in the playoffs in that conference? Jason Kidd, Lionel Hollins, Randy Whitmann, Dwayne Casey. It's not exactly a murderers row over the last few years like the west. My hyperbolic response to Thibs is in direct proportion to the hyperbole that surrounds him as supposedly one of the league's top 5 coaches.

And his offenses will frequently look downright brutal.

I in no way meant to imply that Monty does not have the authority to bench players. I'm sure he does. Monty also has the mandate to win games and make the playoffs THIS season. He started the season with no legitimate small forward and no backup PG, making minutes for Tyreke a necessity. When we finally get QPon and Cole, we don't have Jrue. Again, making minutes for Tyreke a necessity.

Coaches that don't have a mandate placed on them, like Brad Stevens, or coaches that have depth, have the ability to bench players. When you're fighting for your job and the 8th seed, you're backed into a corner if you're trying to send a message to player that may cost you a game or two, that you HAVE TO win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet

You admit in your own post that Monty lacks the gravitas of a Carlisle or a Pop. Or a Thibs. Know who's available to coach the Pellies in 2 weeks? Um ahh... THIBS. The 3rd, 4th, or 5th best basketball coach on the entire planet.

---

You mean the basketball coach who's NEVER won a championship at ANY level in his entire life? In fact, he's never even made it to the NBA Finals in the six seasons he's been the head coach in Chicago? That's the coach you're calling one of the top five basketball coaches on the entire planet? You lose any credibility at all with that statement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Perth_Hornet

This has been a season long issue.

Truth is, contending teams don't have boneheads as their number 2 guy.

---

My point exactly. As long as Tyreke is that guy, Auerbach couldn't coach this team into contention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I'm not an usher at the arena, I promise you, but are your seats next to, or directly behind the bench? Just curious.

I fault Monty for not being able to coach Tyreke. There is obviously a Tyreke/Monty problem in terms of being on the same bball wavelength. Tyreke is not an extension of the coach on the floor. But the solution is either you move Tyreke or you replace Monty, and I'm not convinced Coach K or Phil Jackson would be able to minimize the negative of Tyreke's game and increase his abilities/willingness to execute within the offense.

How would you have addressed the issues last night in the 4th? You're blaming Monty for sitting idly by, but I don't understand specifically what you would have had him do? From my perspective, and my seats may not be as good as yours if you're sitting next to or behind the bench, Monty repeatedly told players what needed to be done and the players didn't or couldn't do it.

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Well I have said in several posts now what was pretty obvious to me in hindsight and a lot that was obvious in game. Evans was botching possessions and killing offensive flow. We were getting torched in the paint and on the offensive glass.

To me you have a few options but at least one of those issues has to be addressed in some capacity. You can try and slow the bleeding on defense to hold onto the lead by putting in another rebounder like Cunningham or maybe even Asik at certain points and put your defensive guard unit in to see if that can slow things down. Sacrificing Ryno or Gordon to just situational use if need be. Or what I wanted was to call a timeout much sooner then 3:30 since it was clear as day problems were happening and then you draw up a play to get the ball moving again and get someone like Ryno an open shot. Heck even the timeout Monty did call was a frustration one that forced us to inbound in the back court thus limiting what we could draw up.

The moment Jrue came back in the ball should of went into his hands and he should of been given the reigns of facilitation. I probably would of sat Evans too. He wasn't defending, scoring or getting boards so he became a albatross IMO.

My problem isn't that Monty did it wrong, it is he basically did nothing til it was to late and then started making mistakes to start OT.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

My point exactly. As long as Tyreke is that guy, Auerbach couldn't coach this team into contention.

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Evans needs to be used in an up tempo, player movement heavy offense if he is going to start IMO. Having him walk the ball up, taking precious time off the clock and then allowing the defense to set and then asking him to create the offense on a shortened clock against a set D puts him in a suboptimal position IMO.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Well I have said in several posts now what was pretty obvious to me in hindsight and a lot that was obvious in game. Evans was botching possessions and killing offensive flow. We were getting torched in the paint and on the offensive glass.

To me you have a few options but at least one of those issues has to be addressed in some capacity. You can try and slow the bleeding on defense to hold onto the lead by putting in another rebounder like Cunningham or maybe even Asik at certain points and put your defensive guard unit in to see if that can slow things down. Sacrificing Ryno or Gordon to just situational use if need be. Or what I wanted was to call a timeout much sooner then 3:30 since it was clear as day problems were happening and then you draw up a play to get the ball moving again and get someone like Ryno an open shot. Heck even the timeout Monty did call was a frustration one that forced us to inbound in the back court thus limiting what we could draw up.

The moment Jrue came back in the ball should of went into his hands and he should of been given the reigns of facilitation. I probably would of sat Evans too. He wasn't defending, scoring or getting boards so he became a albatross IMO.

My problem isn't that Monty did it wrong, it is he basically did nothing til it was to late and then started making mistakes to start OT.

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I don't dismiss this. But I do think it's kind of hindsight and retrospective.

The most likely thing he "coulda woulda shoulda" done is bringing Cunningham or Asik in, and if he does that and sits Anderson, he's probably going to get killed for sitting the hot guy. He gets paid to make the tough decisions, but I'm not sure in the moment, with a lead, anyone is thinking "bring in Asik and Cunningham". If you were thinking that at the 6 minute mark, props to you.

I guess what gnaws me, is that this team lost because they got out hustled and rebounded in the 4th quarter. I think that's indicative of being a young team that hasn't learned how to close. But instead, I see the vast majority of the blame being thrown at the coach. In my years playing ball, I can't conceive of a time when our coach was at fault because we got out rebounded and didn't execute. I think players know who should be held accountable for a 4th quarter like that, and it's the guys on the court. But fans always want to blame the coach.

It would be great it we had a local media that invested in the Pelicans coverage enough to ask Monty really good questions about was drawn up and what wasn't, and whether he considered certain substitutions and/or benching certain players.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Evans needs to be used in an up tempo, player movement heavy offense if he is going to start IMO. Having him walk the ball up, taking precious time off the clock and then allowing the defense to set and then asking him to create the offense on a shortened clock against a set D puts him in a suboptimal position IMO.

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I agree, but this is not a midseason adjustment you can easily make. How they approach this offseason from a personnel and scheme perspective will be interesting. If we keep status quo personnel wise, do they adjust the offense more towards Tyreke's style, or keep an offensive scheme more suited for Jrue Holiday?

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Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet

You admit in your own post that Monty lacks the gravitas of a Carlisle or a Pop. Or a Thibs. Know who's available to coach the Pellies in 2 weeks? Um ahh... THIBS. The 3rd, 4th, or 5th best basketball coach on the entire planet that hasn't won anything in the East but will miraculously be the Pels savior in the West..

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FIFY

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This was a test. And you failed.

i said to myself, I bet WisconsinHornet would pull this one line out and comment on it. I didn't say at all that Monty lacks the gravitas of "a Carlisle or a Pop." He specifically lacks the gravitas of CARLISLE and POP. Two individuals. That have won championships and have the 120% backing of ownership. The deification of Thibs has to stop. What has he won? How many eastern conf finals has played in? How many has he won? He's in the f'kn Easter Conference, for christ's sake!

Thibs would have run this brittle team into the ground. And Thibs (or any other NBA coach for that matter), if placed on the hotseat by ownership, wouldn't have had any better success getting a back court with the IQ of Tyreke Evans and Eric Gordon to be the NBA version of the Hart Foundation (The Excellence of Execution)!

Thibs. Get out of here.

Thibs got outcoached by the video guy for the Miami Heat (Eric Spoelstra) and Randy Wittman.

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I totally agree

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

It's the E A S T E R N ...C O N F E R E N C E.

You know who else gets their team in the playoffs in that conference? Jason Kidd, Lionel Hollins, Randy Whitmann, Dwayne Casey. It's not exactly a murderers row over the last few years like the west. My hyperbolic response to Thibs is in direct proportion to the hyperbole that surrounds him as supposedly one of the league's top 5 coaches.

And his offenses will frequently look downright brutal.

I in no way meant to imply that Monty does not have the authority to bench players. I'm sure he does. Monty also has the mandate to win games and make the playoffs THIS season. He started the season with no legitimate small forward and no backup PG, making minutes for Tyreke a necessity. When we finally get QPon and Cole, we don't have Jrue. Again, making minutes for Tyreke a necessity.

Coaches that don't have a mandate placed on them, like Brad Stevens, or coaches that have depth, have the ability to bench players. When you're fighting for your job and the 8th seed, you're backed into a corner if you're trying to send a message to player that may cost you a game or two, that you HAVE TO win.

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Exactly

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Originally Posted by RobertM320

You mean the basketball coach who's NEVER won a championship at ANY level in his entire life? In fact, he's never even made it to the NBA Finals in the six seasons he's been the head coach in Chicago? That's the coach you're calling one of the top five basketball coaches on the entire planet? You lose any credibility at all with that statement.

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People said that I was crazy for saying this same thing

Here's what I'm wondering and I maybe don't have the basketball IQ to know the answer. If you're Monty and you're putting a lineup on the floor not to play defense but to foul why would you stick Pondexter on Curry and Jrue on Thompson? That's basically assuming you may not be able to catch them and might have to defend the 3. Isn't there such a thing as your fouling matchup lineup? Why would we think Quincy would be able to grab Currys jersey before Jrue. He's quick for a SF but not as quick as Holiday off injury or not.

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Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet

If Pop tells his team to foul there, his team fouls there.

If Carlisle tells his team to foul there, his team fouls there.

If Monty tells his team to foul there, they will fail to do so and bumble their way to the best 3 pt shooter in the West getting TWO chances and being fouled on the 2nd.

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Pop also has three guys that have been playing together for over 700 games, have more total wins and have more playoff wins than any other trio in NBA history. I doubt our whole roster has a combined 700 games played.

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.s...licans_article

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Evans needs to be used in an up tempo, player movement heavy offense if he is going to start IMO. Having him walk the ball up, taking precious time off the clock and then allowing the defense to set and then asking him to create the offense on a shortened clock against a set D puts him in a suboptimal position IMO.

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Precisely. This is what many of us have been saying relative to Tyreke. He is a hell of a basketball player. He is NOT a point guard.

I applaud him for what he was able to do having been asked to perform in that capacity. There is some inherent risk to a player's reputation when said player agrees to play out of position. He accepted that challenge and didn't complain one bit. Many seem oblivious to that fact pattern.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

This was a test. And you failed.

i said to myself, I bet WisconsinHornet would pull this one line out and comment on it. I didn't say at all that Monty lacks the gravitas of "a Carlisle or a Pop." He specifically lacks the gravitas of CARLISLE and POP. Two individuals. That have won championships and have the 120% backing of ownership. The deification of Thibs has to stop. What has he won? How many eastern conf finals has played in? How many has he won? He's in the f'kn Easter Conference, for christ's sake!

Thibs would have run this brittle team into the ground. And Thibs (or any other NBA coach for that matter), if placed on the hotseat by ownership, wouldn't have had any better success getting a back court with the IQ of Tyreke Evans and Eric Gordon to be the NBA version of the Hart Foundation (The Excellence of Execution)!

Thibs. Get out of here.

Thibs got outcoached by the video guy for the Miami Heat (Eric Spoelstra) and Randy Wittman.

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You'll have to pardon the slow response to this... Most of our fans are still googling 'deification'.