Norris Cole, Quincy Pondexter, and Dante Cunningham. ..

Dell Demps should win executive of the year for these three moves alone. They are so important to this current win streak. Doing all of the dirty work and allowing our stars to be super at what they do. Eric shooting his amazing shot, tyreke slashing with confidence, and asik just feeding off of misses and playing stout d. I am really enjoying our team as presently constructed.

esp. since they were all "under the radar" moves

Demps earned the "trade ninja" nickname this season

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Originally Posted by tthier2

Dell Demps should win executive of the year for these three moves alone. They are so important to this current win streak. Doing all of the dirty work and allowing our stars to be super at what they do. Eric shooting his amazing shot, tyreke slashing with confidence, and asik just feeding off of misses and playing stout d. I am really enjoying our team as presently constructed.

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That is the head coach who has brought the team together. Monty deserves coach of the year as well.

Oh goodness people. Relax.

At a minimum, Jimmy Smith should apologize for his article about the Cole trade. At this point, it looks better than a yawner to me.

"Pelicans' yawning trade for Norris Cole lacks excitement or playoff promise" - Jimmy Smith

"Sorry, folks, trading for Norris Cole isn't going to elevate the Pelicans to postseason challenger." - Jimmy Smith

"There's absolutely nothing about which to be excited with this transaction." - Jimmy Smith

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.s...e_deadlin.html

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Originally Posted by Tip-Off

At a minimum, Jimmy Smith should apologize for his article about the Cole trade. At this point, it looks better than a yawner to me.

"Pelicans' yawning trade for Norris Cole lacks excitement or playoff promise" - Jimmy Smith

"Sorry, folks, trading for Norris Cole isn't going to elevate the Pelicans to postseason challenger." - Jimmy Smith

"There's absolutely nothing about which to be excited with this transaction." - Jimmy Smith

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.s...e_deadlin.html

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That's terrible. New Orleans area deserves better.

And let's not forget the TV media. Bipolar, king of the hot take Fletcher Mackel and driver of the original Jimmer Fredette to NOLA fan club is not far off. I had to unfollow him on twitter a while ago, I couldn't take him anymore.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Oh goodness people. Relax.

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Cmon man you can't seriously say that those trades haven't benefited us significantly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4Real

That is the head coach who has brought the team together. Monty deserves coach of the year as well.

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Monty has been doing better I must admit.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Oh goodness people. Relax.

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Thank you lol...it is never even keel around here. Either exec, coach of the year or they need to be. Fired NOW!!!! Anyways Id love to just add AD back to the mix right now and see how this team flows.

norris cole finds people along the 3pt line, and him and Ajinca work like a charm, can't wait to see how him and davis will go together

Watch the fire Dell and Monty posts tomorrow!

The hard-on for Jimmy Smith hate is ridiculous here (and on Twitter, if you follow some other unofficial team media outlets). Yea the dude sucks, but y'all act like a bitter ole girlfriend when it comes to him

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Originally Posted by tthier2

Cmon man you can't seriously say that those trades haven't benefited us significantly.

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Benefitted us? Of course they did. Executive of the year? Let's just slow our roll here a bit...

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Originally Posted by DarkHornet

Benefitted us? Of course they did. Executive of the year? Let's just slow our roll here a bit...

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Yeah the Cavs would laugh us out the building if demps showed up to the hypothetical ceremony thinking he had a chance for that award. Heck if we are just talking finding guys to plug holes miami has a much stronger case: Dragic and Whiteside are a hell of a get and for pennies.

The thunder as well. Bolstering an already deep roster with some smart moves in the face of a disgruntled player.

And as much as I like Cuningham and Qpon give me Robert Covington on a 4 year 1 million dollar a year contract any day. Outside of whiteside Covington is the steal of the year, and arguably more so because philly was smart and locked him up at a near league minimum rate. A legitimate starting small forward who is young and growing and on what may end up being the best contract in the league in a couple years.

Seems like as good a place as any to mention that the TP comments drive me up the wall as well. While I don't like their coverage either, the stuff coming from some of the people that run this place about the TP I think discredits this site more than it points out the shortcomings of the TP. Once upon a time it would have been weird to say 'it's unprofessional' about a website, and sites could get away with juvenile antics because it was the web and 'edgy' or whatever, but even then this site has never been about click-bait and hot takes. We seem to treat some of our crazy posters with more respect than credentialed professional reporters, and even if they may not deserve it, there is a more professional way of pointing out the mistakes in the TP.

I like jimmy,he gives us a lot of recruiting updates.

The moves were good, but nothing spectacular. What I think we all like us that they are players who play hard.

I want to keep Demps around (I believe most of us do) because it looks like he knows how to build a roster. It's never a dull moment with Dell.

I don't want to keep Minty around because he hasn't shown to be the coach that can lead you anywhere. I see it as a Mark Jackson/ Steve Kerr, PJ Carlisimo/ Whoever have been his replacements deal. Monty can get you to a certain point and that's about it. The next guy is the one that will eventually get you where you want to go. He is a set up guy. Nothing wrong with that. He will always have a job in the NBA, but he won't ever get you a title.

So, I have a question....

I remember the BSS Article about Cole and pondexter and how the numbers don't tell the whole story. We all also have seen the dramatic improvement with these guys. But are there any stats out there that help quantify the actual impact these guys make?

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Originally Posted by Pelicantoo

So, I have a question....

I remember the BSS Article about Cole and pondexter and how the numbers don't tell the whole story. We all also have seen the dramatic improvement with these guys. But are there any stats out there that help quantify the actual impact these guys make?

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Individually? Not really. According to their individual stats, they are still replacement level players. Not even league average.

Best stats you got is the W-L record, plus-minus, and Net Rating, which are obviously all going to be good if you are winning all your games (Cole)

But the experts wouldn't be impressed by our acquisitions based on numbers. Cole has a PER of 11.3. Q-Pon is 10.6. Combined VORP of 0.0

According to the numbers, they have made no impact.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Individually? Not really. According to their individual stats, they are still replacement level players. Not even league average.

Best stats you got is the W-L record, plus-minus, and Net Rating, which are obviously all going to be good if you are winning all your games (Cole)

But the experts wouldn't be impressed by our acquisitions based on numbers. Cole has a PER of 11.3. Q-Pon is 10.6. Combined VORP of 0.0

According to the numbers, they have made no impact.

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Correct but the eye test tells a different story

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Individually? Not really. According to their individual stats, they are still replacement level players. Not even league average.

Best stats you got is the W-L record, plus-minus, and Net Rating, which are obviously all going to be good if you are winning all your games (Cole)

But the experts wouldn't be impressed by our acquisitions based on numbers. Cole has a PER of 11.3. Q-Pon is 10.6. Combined VORP of 0.0

According to the numbers, they have made no impact.

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I guess when youve had the negatives we have had among our role players, its easier for us to see their importance to this surge. I dont see good players, but I dont see glaring holes like aminu, rivers etc...

There are no numbers to define what they have done.

We should file it under "intangibles" and "chemistry".

Without these 2 things however, a team will go nowhere.

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Originally Posted by jinishima

I guess when youve had the negatives we have had among our role players, its easier for us to see their importance to this surge. I dont see good players, but I dont see glaring holes like aminu, rivers etc...

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I see people who hustle and we needed that more than anything. We had people who scored already. We needed people who get after it, hustle hard, and pressured offenses. These three do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Individually? Not really. According to their individual stats, they are still replacement level players. Not even league average.

Best stats you got is the W-L record, plus-minus, and Net Rating, which are obviously all going to be good if you are winning all your games (Cole)

But the experts wouldn't be impressed by our acquisitions based on numbers. Cole has a PER of 11.3. Q-Pon is 10.6. Combined VORP of 0.0

According to the numbers, they have made no impact.

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This is a sad reality to me, and evidence of a lot of empty space that statistics have yet to fill. Then again, I wouldn't know where to start in trying to come up with a concept to quantify it.

I went to the Philly game with a buddy of mine who's not a pels fan, he fairly called them really hard to watch.

Just went with the same friend to watch the Heat game and he was blown away by how they looked like a quality basketball team when not too long ago they looked like a bad college team with very few changes.

I just wished I had a way to explain it without sounding like a weird idealist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinishima

I guess when youve had the negatives we have had among our role players, its easier for us to see their importance to this surge. I dont see good players, but I dont see glaring holes like aminu, rivers etc...

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Right. Replacement Level would be an improvement over what we were getting from Rivers and Salmons.

personally i think Dante is the reason we won/pulled ahead late last night

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hugeaux II

Seems like as good a place as any to mention that the TP comments drive me up the wall as well. While I don't like their coverage either, the stuff coming from some of the people that run this place about the TP I think discredits this site more than it points out the shortcomings of the TP. Once upon a time it would have been weird to say 'it's unprofessional' about a website, and sites could get away with juvenile antics because it was the web and 'edgy' or whatever, but even then this site has never been about click-bait and hot takes. We seem to treat some of our crazy posters with more respect than credentialed professional reporters, and even if they may not deserve it, there is a more professional way of pointing out the mistakes in the TP.

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:) Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way!

I think one of the big reasons they look just league average is because we don't have good defensive measurement stats. Both of them are better on that side of the court and are average offensively.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I think one of the big reasons they look just league average is because we don't have good defensive measurement stats. Both of them are better on that side of the court and are average offensively.

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Not to mention, people don't consider role when looking at stats. What is a player being asked to do for that team? Norris Cole is not being asked to do the same thing here as he was in Miami, and it will be even more different when Jrue returns.

Like I said in my piece, if the guy is gonna be on the court for 40 possessions, and he shoots 4 times, why such a heavy emphasis on those 4 possessions over the other 36? And the reason is that the other 36 are so hard to measure, so we don't bother.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Not to mention, people don't consider role when looking at stats. What is a player being asked to do for that team? Norris Cole is not being asked to do the same thing here as he was in Miami, and it will be even more different when Jrue returns.

Like I said in my piece, if the guy is gonna be on the court for 40 possessions, and he shoots 4 times, why such a heavy emphasis on those 4 possessions over the other 36? And the reason is that the other 36 are so hard to measure, so we don't bother.

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I don't have any metrics to back it up either, but these guys appear to be great "glue" guys. It's still a small sample size, but our team just looks a lot more composed late game with these guys on board. I also love when I see Cole come in for defensive possessions late in the game when we need stops. I can't say I ever got particularly excited to see either Rivers or Salmons come on the court. At this point, the only person I groan when he hits the floor is Ferdette.

I don't think we can undersell how much value there is in having Pondexter and Cole come over from teams that KNOW how to win. Anyone who doesn't believe that leadership intangibles aren't terribly important would have to look no further than the mess of the 2014 New Orleans Saints. They were a team that should have been improved on paper, but gave up way too much in veteran leadership all at one time.

Quailman and Heuxgeaux ... it wasn't out of place for the OP to point out what Jimmy Smith said in his Cole article. Jimmy deserves to be called out for this one, considering what he said. Furthermore, it's not like Jimmy Smith gets attacked on the daily, so I think that you both overstate the severity of some of our posters complaints.

Actually, it was Tipoff who mentioned the article, and I think that it was appropriate to do so

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkHornet

I don't have any metrics to back it up either, but these guys appear to be great "glue" guys. It's still a small sample size, but our team just looks a lot more composed late game with these guys on board. I also love when I see Cole come in for defensive possessions late in the game when we need stops. I can't say I ever got particularly excited to see either Rivers or Salmons come on the court. At this point, the only person I groan when he hits the floor is Ferdette.

I don't think we can undersell how much value there is in having Pondexter and Cole come over from teams that KNOW how to win. Anyone who doesn't believe that leadership intangibles aren't terribly important would have to look no further than the mess of the 2014 New Orleans Saints. They were a team that should have been improved on paper, but gave up way too much in veteran leadership all at one time.

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Devils Advocate would ask if these guys can be relied upon when the game goes to another level in the playoffs. Cole and Q-Pon both had one good playoff run, but there is no doubt that they would be overmatched talent wise against the top teams. Of the top 10 teams in the West, Q-Pon would probably be the worst starting SF if asked to play that role. Cole, an average backup PG at best.

The question is: Are these two solid to good or were the previous guys just so awful that below average looks good and puts us over the top against bad teams? I don't know. Personally, I want one more SF so Pondexter can be a 18-20 min bench guy, not a 26 mpg starter. Cole, I am fine with as a 12-15 min backup. DC is tough for me. I go back and forth on him all the time with regards to whether he can be a rotation guy on a high level playoff team.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4Real

That is the head coach who has brought the team together. Monty deserves coach of the year as well.

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LMAO

Personally, I think that all 3 would be solid bench contributors in a playoff run. All 3 don't seem to get fazed when something isn't working for them. If any of them are struggling on offense, you can rely on a great defensive effort, which is important.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luigi modelo

Personally, I think that all 3 would be solid bench contributors in a playoff run. All 3 don't seem to get fazed when something isn't working for them. If any of them are struggling on offense, you can rely on a great defensive effort, which is important.

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But great teams have guys who give 100% effort and have high levels of talent. Rotations get shortened in the playoffs. We are talking about the best of the best here. You aren't playing Denver or a team like Miami, Brooklyn, etc. if you are the Pels. You are gonna play 4 elite teams if you wanna win it all from the Western Conference. A team like GS will shorten its bench and probably just play Iggy, Davis Lee, and Livingston. Maybe Speights who has been great. Maybe.

Again, I love the guys. Just playing Devils Advocate. The playoffs is a whole new level and you will be going against the best of the best night in and night out. Playing harder than the other guy isn't as likely any more. Comes down to skill at that point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

But great teams have guys who give 100% effort and have high levels of talent. Rotations get shortened in the playoffs. We are talking about the best of the best here. You aren't playing Denver or a team like Miami, Brooklyn, etc. if you are the Pels. You are gonna play 4 elite teams if you wanna win it all from the Western Conference. A team like GS will shorten its bench and probably just play Iggy, Davis Lee, and Livingston. Maybe Speights who has been great. Maybe.

Again, I love the guys. Just playing Devils Advocate. The playoffs is a whole new level and you will be going against the best of the best night in and night out. Playing harder than the other guy isn't as likely any more. Comes down to skill at that point.

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these three are arguably our top 3/4 on man defensive players. They allow the others to be who they are. I can argue they are just as important on defensive as Tyreke is on offense. in the playoffs, you don't advance without D. They don't hurt the team but only adds to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Devils Advocate would ask if these guys can be relied upon when the game goes to another level in the playoffs. Cole and Q-Pon both had one good playoff run, but there is no doubt that they would be overmatched talent wise against the top teams. Of the top 10 teams in the West, Q-Pon would probably be the worst starting SF if asked to play that role. Cole, an average backup PG at best.

The question is: Are these two solid to good or were the previous guys just so awful that below average looks good and puts us over the top against bad teams? I don't know. Personally, I want one more SF so Pondexter can be a 18-20 min bench guy, not a 26 mpg starter. Cole, I am fine with as a 12-15 min backup. DC is tough for me. I go back and forth on him all the time with regards to whether he can be a rotation guy on a high level playoff team.

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Oh, don't mistake me as saying "we're there; we're done." We certainly need more pieces. I'm just appreciating the incremental improvement, perhaps mixed with a bit too much optimism. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sterlr

these three are arguably our top 3/4 on man defensive players. They allow the others to be who they are. I can argue they are just as important on defensive as Tyreke is on offense. in the playoffs, you don't advance without D. They don't hurt the team but only adds to it.

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Pondexter got abused time and time again last night by multiple Nuggets wing players. He also is light and has been taken down to the post rather easily by 2's and 3's. If you try to play DC at the 4 against Memphis or GS with David Lee off the bench, he will get eaten alive.

I don't want to bash on these guys, because I really like them and I appreciate them. But the playoffs is a whole new level and we have been beating some terrible teams lately. All well below .500 except for Toronto, who has been playing terribly - lost 5 straight.

I love what is going on now, but I will not assume a carry over to the highest level.

I like what you are saying MM, and I think that is how we should be looking at it. Having said that, there is a comfort level that I have with these guys, that I think would translate to solid playoff performances. Obviously, we have to see it in action, but I do feel comfortable, at least.

We definitely need to address the starting 3 in the offseason, with future playoffs in mind.

I guess I'm short sighted, but I would be ecstatic if there was a sufficient carryover to tonight.....

With guys that have that 'intangibles' reputation like DC, Q, and Cole where we are clearly seeing it with the eye test, but nothing shows up in the stats, I'm sure part of it is that stats haven't captured defense as well as offense yet, and as posted above these guys even at replacement level are better than what was out there before - but shouldn't 'something' show up in the numbers of their teammates if not for them personally?The infectious hustle plays that are turning in to stops, rebounds, turnovers and buckets have to show up in somebody's stats right? Either other guys on our squad should see some kind of uptick, or we are holding the opposition in some way where they'd have a downtick? Maybe the numbers guys have t figured it out yet, but it should be in the numbers somewhere...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Pondexter got abused time and time again last night by multiple Nuggets wing players. He also is light and has been taken down to the post rather easily by 2's and 3's. If you try to play DC at the 4 against Memphis or GS with David Lee off the bench, he will get eaten alive.

I don't want to bash on these guys, because I really like them and I appreciate them. But the playoffs is a whole new level and we have been beating some terrible teams lately. All well below .500 except for Toronto, who has been playing terribly - lost 5 straight.

I love what is going on now, but I will not assume a carry over to the highest level.

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We go from 2% of making the playoffs to worried about how these 3 will play in deep runs? lol.

Come on, let's just be happy that we finally have at least league average backup players. I'm not expecting this year for us to make a deep run and the cap makes a huge jump after next year. If possible I'd like to keep the league average talent we have now and try to upgrade it as we move forward.

I'm not really worried how they will play in the WCF just yet. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

We go from 2% of making the playoffs to worried about how these 3 will play in deep runs? lol.

Come on, let's just be happy that we finally have at least league average backup players. I'm not expecting this year for us to make a deep run and the cap makes a huge jump after next year. If possible I'd like to keep the league average talent we have now and try to upgrade it as we move forward.

I'm not really worried how they will play in the WCF just yet. lol

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To be clear, I was not referring to this year at all. I am looking at it as a long term thing. As Dell heads to this summer, he has some decisions to make on at least two of these guys, and a third in a way because he has to decide whether to go after a SF who can replace Q-Pon in the starting lineup or roll with Q-Pon there

Most teams don't have a Evans and Holliday at PG and a Davis and Anderson at PF. This is where Dell needs to make moves and free up cash. To have a AA, DC, QP, And Cole off bench is decent depth.

I am not sure how GS can resign D Green, that would be a nice piece if EG opts out and we make some trades.