What happens to guard rotation when Jrue returns ?

I would bring Reke off the bench and put Douglas next to him to guard the ball. You would kill two birds with one stone. A ball defender and someone who can hit a open shot........

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Originally Posted by SaintPelican225

I would bring Reke off the bench and put Douglas next to him to guard the ball. You would kill two birds with one stone. A ball defender and someone who can hit a open shot........

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I agree. Evans starting only really works if he is a facilitator and in that respect he needs to completely eliminate performances like last night before I would support doing that.

I also think that Qpon should be given a spot in the starting lineup while Jrue is out.

As it stands our current lineup with Jrue out has only 1 legit three point shooter. Q-pon can give us another threat and produce relatively the same defense as Cunningham.

I'd like to see Q-Pon start when Jrue returns....Dante and Douglas could be your top defenders on the second unit....

Monty shifts to an 8 man rotation on most nights that features the Big 6 plus DC and Q-Pon. Occasionally, but not often Ajinca gets some run as well.

Jrue-Gordon-DC-AD-Asik start

Reke comes in for Gordon early, then Anderson comes in a little later for Asik. Gordon comes back in for Jrue either at the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd.

Minutes go something like this:

Jrue - 35
Reke - 34
Gordon - 32
DC - 25
Q-Pon - 22
AD - 37
Anderson - 29
Asik -26

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Monty shifts to an 8 man rotation on most nights that features the Big 6 plus DC and Q-Pon. Occasionally, but not often Ajinca gets some run as well.

Jrue-Gordon-DC-AD-Asik start

Reke comes in for Gordon early, then Anderson comes in a little later for Asik. Gordon comes back in for Jrue either at the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd.

Minutes go something like this:

Jrue - 35
Reke - 34
Gordon - 32
DC - 25
Q-Pon - 22
AD - 37
Anderson - 29
Asik -26

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You're probably right, but how can they avoid Gordon getting exposed by opposing teams point guards ? Thus, Douglas or someone else via trade will be in the rotation as we push toward the playoffs after the AS break.....IMO

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Monty shifts to an 8 man rotation on most nights that features the Big 6 plus DC and Q-Pon. Occasionally, but not often Ajinca gets some run as well.

Jrue-Gordon-DC-AD-Asik start

Reke comes in for Gordon early, then Anderson comes in a little later for Asik. Gordon comes back in for Jrue either at the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd.

Minutes go something like this:

Jrue - 35
Reke - 34
Gordon - 32
DC - 25
Q-Pon - 22
AD - 37
Anderson - 29
Asik -26

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No way does DC and QPons minutes drop that far.

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Originally Posted by Noggy

No way does DC and QPons minutes drop that far.

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Agreed....the forth guard, that will be determined later will get a least 8-10 minutes from Jrue, Reke, Gordon....can't see Jrue getting that many minutes coming off that kind of injury.....IMO

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Originally Posted by SaintPelican225

Agreed....the forth guard, that will be determined later will get a least 8-10 minutes from Jrue, Reke, Gordon....can't see Jrue getting that many minutes coming off that kind of injury.....IMO

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Are we talking about the day Jrue comes back or in general - once he gets rolling?

Game 1, yes we will limit his mins a bit, but by late Feb, early March we aren't going to still be monitoring him.

I put my mins predictions out there, and all I have seen is 'That aint right." Ok, that's fine. Let me see others predictions for the 240 mins.

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Originally Posted by Noggy

No way does DC and QPons minutes drop that far.

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They are averaging 51.6 mins since coming here. A drop to 47 isn't 'that far'

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Are we talking about the day Jrue comes back or in general - once he gets rolling?

Game 1, yes we will limit his mins a bit, but by late Feb, early March we aren't going to still be monitoring him.

I put my mins predictions out there, and all I have seen is 'That aint right." Ok, that's fine. Let me see others predictions for the 240 mins.

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I just think the Pels view Jrue the same as AD....again, IMO they don't play him more than 30 min per, even once he gets rolling....a forth defensive guard has to be in the mix even when Jrue returns....IMO

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Originally Posted by SaintPelican225

I just think the Pels view Jrue the same as AD....again, IMO they don't play him more than 30 min per, even once he gets rolling....a forth defensive guard has to be in the mix even when Jrue returns....IMO

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We are going with 3 guards now. I can't imagine we go to 4 when we get Jrue back unless you consider Q-Pon a guard in some lineups (which he could) be. The drop off from our top 3 guards to the 4th is major.

Now, if we get a legit 4th guard via a trade, I would agree. But if our options are Jimmer and Douglas, then I don't think a 4th guard plays

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

We are going with 3 guards now. I can't imagine we go to 4 when we get Jrue back unless you consider Q-Pon a guard in some lineups (which he could) be. The drop off from our top 3 guards to the 4th is major.

Now, if we get a legit 4th guard via a trade, I would agree. But if our options are Jimmer and Douglas, then I don't think a 4th guard plays

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I agree. With those three, a capable primary ball handler will be on the floor pretty much all of the time. Plus the defensive versatility will remain.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

We are going with 3 guards now. I can't imagine we go to 4 when we get Jrue back unless you consider Q-Pon a guard in some lineups (which he could) be. The drop off from our top 3 guards to the 4th is major.

Now, if we get a legit 4th guard via a trade, I would agree. But if our options are Jimmer and Douglas, then I don't think a 4th guard plays

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Agreed....Can't wait to see what Dell does before the deadline. You got to believe Monty isn't happy with EG's lack of on the ball defense...I think he'll be a target defensively, which will probably hurt him offensively.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

They are averaging 51.6 mins since coming here. A drop to 47 isn't 'that far'

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I think DC will continue to put up 28-34 minutes a game. Qpon is a bit more iffy, but he has really been coming on too. I love them both.

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Originally Posted by SaintPelican225

Agreed....Can't wait to see what Dell does before the deadline. You got to believe Monty isn't happy with EG's lack of on the ball defense...I think he'll be a target defensively, which will probably hurt him offensively.

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Gordons D has been passable until he was asked to guard two of the quickest and best PG's in the game. He wasn't out of position much if at all. Read most screens right. But you can't expect a not exactly speedy 2 guard to stick to two of the fastest players in the league.

What does it say about Evans when Monty doesnt have confidence in the guy to guard the position he is playing? If we are talking D Evans is by far our worst guard defender. He can't guard 3's, struggles against 2's and Monty doesnt even have confidence in him matching up consistently against most starting 1's.

None of our guards have been great defensively but Gordon has been our most consistent defender. Jrue has the potential to be our best and at times played like just that. Evans is Evans. Below average defensively.

It whats you said MM, Jrue will take his minutes back, but almost all of Jimmers minutes will go to Qpon. Qpon will see around 27 minutes a game and DC will always be above that.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

We are going with 3 guards now. I can't imagine we go to 4 when we get Jrue back unless you consider Q-Pon a guard in some lineups (which he could) be. The drop off from our top 3 guards to the 4th is major.

Now, if we get a legit 4th guard via a trade, I would agree. But if our options are Jimmer and Douglas, then I don't think a 4th guard plays

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It is a major drop off but prior to the injury Monty was regularly shuffling a fourth guard into the mix. He very well and probably should tighten up that rotation and stagger his guards more but I kind of think he will put either Jimmer or Douglas out there for a couple stretches in the second and late third/early fourth.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

It is a major drop off but prior to the injury Monty was regularly shuffling a fourth guard into the mix. He very well and probably should tighten up that rotation and stagger his guards more but I kind of think he will put either Jimmer or Douglas out there for a couple stretches in the second and late third/early fourth.

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But we have Qpon now, and I think he sees minutes at guard. Especially with the 2nd unit.

Oh man, oh man. I would love to see Jimmer fall off the face of the earth and see Reke run the point with the bench unit, and Qpon and Babbit and Anderson and Ajinca fill it out. Though I'd have AD in when Babbit was in, and Asik in when Anderson was in, when the bench units are playing.

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Originally Posted by Noggy

But we have Qpon now, and I think he sees minutes at guard. Especially with the 2nd unit.

Oh man, oh man. I would love to see Jimmer fall off the face of the earth and see Reke run the point with the bench unit, and Qpon and Babbit and Anderson and Ajinca fill it out. Though I'd have AD in when Babbit was in, and Asik in when Anderson was in, when the bench units are playing.

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I know, but just call it a hunch. I don't think Monty is comfortable only playing one true PG all game. He seems to force another PG into the lineup regardless of health and situation at some point in every game. Be it Rivers, Jimmer, Mekel, Wolters or soon to be Douglas.

But like I said, its just a hunch. I don't stand behind my hunch dogmatically. I could very well be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

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Originally Posted by Noggy

It whats you said MM, Jrue will take his minutes back, but almost all of Jimmers minutes will go to Qpon. Qpon will see around 27 minutes a game and DC will always be above that.

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OK - so show me your 240 minutes

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

It is a major drop off but prior to the injury Monty was regularly shuffling a fourth guard into the mix. He very well and probably should tighten up that rotation and stagger his guards more but I kind of think he will put either Jimmer or Douglas out there for a couple stretches in the second and late third/early fourth.

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I think we saw Monty's playoff rotation in the OKC game, and if the goal is the playoffs, I highly suspect that Monty will shorten the rotation post AS break. Monty has only had one team that was gunning for the playoffs. As the Hornets pushed for the playoffs that year, they basically went 8 deep down the stretch and those guys were much older.

Just my hunch. We shall see.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

OK - so show me your 240 minutes

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Jrue - 30
Gordon - 30
Reke - 35
AD - 38
Ryno - 28
Asik - 25
DC - 30
Qpon - 24

Of course, breathers can happen. Look for AD, Gordon, Asik, DC, and Qpons minutes will fluctuate game to game, and their averages might be lower. But this is the rotation I see in the early games of a playoff series vs Random team (not counting matchups). Of course when its crunch time, you might see Jrue and Gordon and Anderson get more minutes and guys like DC and Asik lose minutes.

And, this is really kind of what I'm hoping for more than we will probably see... You take a minute from each of them and like 5 from Tyreke and you have your Jimmer/Ajinca minutes.

IF DC gets as many minutes as Jrue and Gordon, this board will eat itself after a loss. I don't agree, but we shall see.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I think we saw Monty's playoff rotation in the OKC game, and if the goal is the playoffs, I highly suspect that Monty will shorten the rotation post AS break. Monty has only had one team that was gunning for the playoffs. As the Hornets pushed for the playoffs that year, they basically went 8 deep down the stretch and those guys were much older.

Just my hunch. We shall see.

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Good point. I didn't think to look at our playoff run post allstar rotation.

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Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco

Good point. I didn't think to look at our playoff run post allstar rotation.

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Monty basically played 8 guys and gave two others 4-7 minutes. He would play a ten man rotation in the first half and go to 8 in the second half.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Monty basically played 8 guys and gave two others 4-7 minutes. He would play a ten man rotation in the first half and go to 8 in the second half.

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Interesting. My hunch now mirrors yours.

Jrue - 33
Gordon - 32
Reke - 35
AD - 38
Ryno - 28
Asik - 26
DC - 24
Qpon - 24

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Monty shifts to an 8 man rotation on most nights that features the Big 6 plus DC and Q-Pon. Occasionally, but not often Ajinca gets some run as well.

Jrue-Gordon-DC-AD-Asik start

Reke comes in for Gordon early, then Anderson comes in a little later for Asik. Gordon comes back in for Jrue either at the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd.

Minutes go something like this:

Jrue - 35
Reke - 34
Gordon - 32
DC - 25
Q-Pon - 22
AD - 37
Anderson - 29
Asik -26

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Do you think QPon will start to see more minutes than DC?

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Originally Posted by jgman

Do you think QPon will start to see more minutes than DC?

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I'm no insider, but I'm going to go with no.

But, I wouldn't be super dissapointed if he did. I love both their game. Too bad we just don't have the spots to play both of them! I guess its a good thing!

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Originally Posted by jgman

Do you think QPon will start to see more minutes than DC?

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It would make more sense if Q-Pon started IMO because of the fact that the starting lineup needs more spacing and offense. But Monty hasn't switched yet, so I don't know what will make him

trade him.. telling you people, the three guard rotation is the problem.. you gotta have balance in life, not overkill

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

trade him.. telling you people, the three guard rotation is the problem.. you gotta have balance in life, not overkill

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Why in the world we you trade Jrue when Gordon will not be with the team in 2016-17?
We wont be competing for Finals until at least 2019 or 2020 anyway.
This roster is still incomplete.

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

trade him.. telling you people, the three guard rotation is the problem.. you gotta have balance in life, not overkill

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Question is for who ? Keep in mind he's the second best player on this team and best perimeter defender...

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

trade him.. telling you people, the three guard rotation is the problem.. you gotta have balance in life, not overkill

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So we will have no true defender at the point of attack and allow fast guards to have career nights on us? Thanks, but no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

trade him.. telling you people, the three guard rotation is the problem.. you gotta have balance in life, not overkill

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DURR LETS TRADE OUR 2nd BEST PLAYER BECAUSE OF THE ****TIER PLAYERS WE HAVE THAT WONT BE HERE IN 2 YEARS

gj

lol this guy just got railed on.

The better question IMO (since most people agree on the 8 man rotation) is who will finish the games?
Would you go with the 3 guard lineup or keep Quincy (or Dante) to have a less flawed defense in order to get stops.

IMO, Quincy (if not in a slump) is a better bet than either Tyreke/EG. He should keep whichever one seems to have the most confidence (well to be honest Tyreke has been so abysmal in crunch time that I may go for EG above him in general though).

Okay.. please explain why we have been playing better without.. you can't have JRUE and TYREKE together, they don't work.. how much more evidence do you need.... with jrue and tyreke we have lost more games than we have won.. and with gordon on the floor we have won 5 more than we have lost

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

Okay.. please explain why we have been playing better without.. you can't have JRUE and TYREKE together, they don't work.. how much more evidence do you need.... with jrue and tyreke we have lost more games than we have won.. and with gordon on the floor we have won 5 more than we have lost

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Explanation #1 - defensive upgrade at the SF position.
Explanation #2 - decreased strength of schedule allowing Gordon's defensive liabilities to be less of a factor
Explanation #3 - improved play from AD
Explanation #4 - small sample size

Gordon's improved play is fools gold. He can beast against inferior competition for short stretches, but can't be relied upon. He withers against physical defenses and aggressive speedy point guards. Jrue relishes the tough defensive assignment. Jrue is above average over the long run, Gordon and Tyreke are both below average.

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Originally Posted by NOEngineer

Explanation #1 - defensive upgrade at the SF position.
Explanation #2 - decreased strength of schedule allowing Gordon's defensive liabilities to be less of a factor
Explanation #3 - improved play from AD
Explanation #4 - small sample size

Gordon's improved play is fools gold. He can beast against inferior competition for short stretches, but can't be relied upon. He withers against physical defenses and aggressive speedy point guards. Jrue relishes the tough defensive assignment. Jrue is above average over the long run, Gordon and Tyreke are both below average.

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decrease strength of scheldue.. we lost to teams like NYK, sixers and celtics along with denver, we only started winning when it came against the tougher teams.

Look at teams with success, tell me one of them that has two slashers and lack of offense from the 3 that succeed? non
And the only reason why AD has been playing well, is because reke doesn't have to ball dominant as much now that he is primary ball handler, allowing AD shots to go up to 20 per game, telling you getting rid of one for a SF or bench production is 100% key.. don't know how you guys see otherwise, and Gordon is the worst option, simply because jrue and tyreke are way to streaky at shooting to be reliable

Plus Jrue holiday play making ability is severely overrated
the fact that he only averages around 7 assists a game with gordon, reke ryno and AD on your team makes 0 sense, if vasuqez can average 10 assists per game under monty with the squad he had, an "allstar pg" should be able to average atleast over 8.5 on this team, and the fact that reke has been averaging over 10 assists during this stretch and pg is his secondary position then that also highlights how poor holidays play making ability is.

yes he is an above average defender, but we are still one of the worst defensive teams in the league so he can't be that good

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

Plus Jrue holiday play making ability is severely overrated
the fact that he only averages around 7 assists a game with gordon, reke ryno and AD on your team makes 0 sense, if vasuqez can average 10 assists per game under monty with the squad he had, an "allstar pg" should be able to average atleast over 8.5 on this team, and the fact that reke has been averaging over 10 assists during this stretch and pg is his secondary position then that also highlights how poor holidays play making ability is.

yes he is an above average defender, but we are still one of the worst defensive teams in the league so he can't be that good

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Keep in mind he splits ball handling with Reke. If he ran the offense 100% of the time he'd have higher Assist numbers.

The same is true of Reke. He wasn't averaging 10+ assists when Jrue was playing. But now that there's just one guy he will no doubt get more assists.

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Originally Posted by Pantazis76

Plus Jrue holiday play making ability is severely overrated
the fact that he only averages around 7 assists a game with gordon, reke ryno and AD on your team makes 0 sense, if vasuqez can average 10 assists per game under monty with the squad he had, an "allstar pg" should be able to average atleast over 8.5 on this team, and the fact that reke has been averaging over 10 assists during this stretch and pg is his secondary position then that also highlights how poor holidays play making ability is.

yes he is an above average defender, but we are still one of the worst defensive teams in the league so he can't be that good

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You know that plays both ways right? He "only" averages 7 assists a game because Tyreke is in the line-up with him and gets about 40% of the plays. Give Jrue 100% of the possessions and his numbers would inflate too. And also Jrue avgs "only" 7 assists while Tyreke is at 6 with them being inflated as of late.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Keep in mind he splits ball handling with Reke. If he ran the offense 100% of the time he'd have higher Assist numbers.

The same is true of Reke. He wasn't averaging 10+ assists when Jrue was playing. But now that there's just one guy he will no doubt get more assists.

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LOL good post +1

The issue is not how you split up minutes, or at least in my mind.

The issue is going to be how to finish the game. Unfortunately Jrue, before he got hurt, and Tyreke go into Westbrook mode at the end of ballgames and start to believe they're out there to be MJ and score instead of creating and passing....the offense comes to a grinding halt and we lose.

With Jrue out, Tyreke has had his good games where he keeps moving the ball, but some where it just kills the chemistry and won't share.

I personally believe some of the teams know this...so they tighten up on all players and want Tyreke to keep the ball and try to beat them...and if they don't have this mentality, they are missing the boat. Especially if you give him space in 3pt land.....and don't press him...he will def jack up that jumper with time running out.

During the rest of the game, they usually perform well and follow the game plan, so however the minutes fall I think really doesn't matter. Most of the games we lose aren't the blow out nature, it's what our guards do in the 4th.

And having them both out on the court in the 4th will really get ugly when that time comes again, because Monty will not have one of them on the bench...which I think he should. More times rather than not, I think Tyreke should be on the bench if he's not in a good passing zone. Give him 35 minutes, but the last 7, I want him out of the game.

But hey, that's just me. "I've seen enough. I've seen enough."

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Originally Posted by james_k_p

The issue is not how you split up minutes, or at least in my mind.

The issue is going to be how to finish the game. Unfortunately Jrue, before he got hurt, and Tyreke go into Westbrook mode at the end of ballgames and start to believe they're out there to be MJ and score instead of creating and passing....the offense comes to a grinding halt and we lose.

With Jrue out, Tyreke has had his good games where he keeps moving the ball, but some where it just kills the chemistry and won't share.

I personally believe some of the teams know this...so they tighten up on all players and want Tyreke to keep the ball and try to beat them...and if they don't have this mentality, they are missing the boat. Especially if you give him space in 3pt land.....and don't press him...he will def jack up that jumper with time running out.

During the rest of the game, they usually perform well and follow the game plan, so however the minutes fall I think really doesn't matter. Most of the games we lose aren't the blow out nature, it's what our guards do in the 4th.

And having them both out on the court in the 4th will really get ugly when that time comes again, because Monty will not have one of them on the bench...which I think he should. More times rather than not, I think Tyreke should be on the bench if he's not in a good passing zone. Give him 35 minutes, but the last 7, I want him out of the game.

But hey, that's just me. "I've seen enough. I've seen enough."

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I think the question is who closes, QPon or Gordon? Probably will differ game to game based on whose hot and matchups

Tyreke is going to be on the floor most likely, he is our best playmaker. Him and Jrue need to figure out how to play together, Jrue needs to be a better version of what Gordon has been doing with Tyreke handling the ball more

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Originally Posted by speedyG

I think the question is who closes, QPon or Gordon? Probably will differ game to game based on whose hot

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For me, it's not even close. QPon everyday and on Sunday and Christmas. EG has been hitting some spot J's, but his overall IQ goes WAY down in the 4th. His nerves...IQ...whatever goes out the window and he starts doing that shimmy shimmy step back J garbage....which are all bricks....no one is in position to rebound and bam..another ugly offensive possession.

EG I see is like Tyreke and Jrue, great players all game, but at the end.....bonehead comes out. QPon had a bonehead foul that we survived the other night, so yes, all players can do that, but he's a pro's pro, mature, doesn't appear to freak out under pressure and to my memory, has not attempted a shimmy step back jack garbage shot with under 7 minutes left that left AD and everyone else on the team shaking their head.

If anything QPon is the one reminding the guys when he's on the court to keep sharing and do what it takes to win, don't go one on one and he leads.

the question is... Jrue will return?

Everyone seems to think DC will get more minutes than QPon? I don't really understand why since QPon is an overall better player.


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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Monty shifts to an 8 man rotation on most nights that features the Big 6 plus DC and Q-Pon. Occasionally, but not often Ajinca gets some run as well.

Jrue-Gordon-DC-AD-Asik start

Reke comes in for Gordon early, then Anderson comes in a little later for Asik. Gordon comes back in for Jrue either at the end of the first or beginning of the 2nd.

Minutes go something like this:

Jrue - 35
Reke - 34
Gordon - 32
DC - 25
Q-Pon - 22
AD - 37
Anderson - 29
Asik -26

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I could see if we go to a 4 man guard lineup would look like this...

Jrue- 33
Reke - 32
Gordon - 30
QPon- 25-28
DC - 22
AD- 35
Anderson- 29
Asik - 26
Douglas/Jimmer - 6-9 depending on if QPon gets some minutes as a guard.

Honestly...I would not give Douglas and Jimmer more than 5 minutes a game.

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