Look I love what Asik brings for us but does anybody else besides me think we should invest in an athletic center to pair next to AD? A center who can jump for rebounds/blocks. A center who can actually catch the game ball when they pass it to him. Asik has been nothing but a negative for us on the offensive end. I don't care if he doesn't shoot a single shot all game, I don't want him screwing up our entire offense with wasted possessions because he can't catch the freaking ball.
Omer Asik: No Hands No Athleticism.
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11-25-2014, 08:36 PMMMEmbrenoOmer Asik: No Hands No Athleticism.
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11-25-2014, 08:38 PMMMEmbreno
Demarcus cousins is toying with him. The NBA has changed. Asiks game is not as effective as it used to be. AND he can't make free throws to save his life!!!!
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11-25-2014, 08:46 PMLOLLakers
Asik is the farthest thing from a problem for this team
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11-25-2014, 08:51 PMLOLLakers
And Cousins toys with everyone. If you can limit him to 18 points on 18 shooting possessions while having him committing 4 turnovers you have more than done your job.
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11-25-2014, 09:12 PMMMEmbreno
Ok defensively, sure, he's great. But if the team is actually going to include you in the offense then it is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. He even said he doesn't want to be a part of the offense yet every time he gets the ball or an offensive board he goes up for a shot and gets stuffed by a defender or worse, the Rim. I can't be the only one seeing this.
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11-25-2014, 09:12 PMMichaelMcNamara
How come these threads never pop up in the mid afternoon on an off day?
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11-25-2014, 09:15 PMMMEmbrenoIs Omer Asik athletic? Does he have hands? And is he included in our offense, and if so, if he effective? But more specifically than anything else, does he even catch the ball to even give himself a chance on the offensive end?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-25-2014, 09:16 PMMMEmbreno
Those are my original questions. If he is going to be included in our offense then it is a serious problem.
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11-25-2014, 09:38 PMDefensiveMindWork.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-25-2014, 09:49 PMUNO GraciasI like to review my answers right after I get a test back. See what I got wrong, and how I can improve next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
We just took the test, time to review. -
11-25-2014, 09:54 PMda ThRONeThis. I could make a strong case that Cousins is the best center(and IMO he his the best offensive 5) in the league. Getting worked by him isn't an insult and Asik won't face a center as offensively gifted as Demarcus every night.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLLakers
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11-25-2014, 09:58 PMDefensiveMind
I'll admit. I've held my tongue not wanting to be that guy..but no more. As far as I'm concerned Tyreke is Ricky Davis and AD is LeBron and we need to get that clown as far away from AD as possible. Ryan Anderson is Brad Sellers. While I'm not advocating that AD make Ryan cry in practice like MJ did Sellers, just make him uncomfortable enough that he'll okay a trade.
Jrue and Asik. The choice is yours. Horace Grant (2x), BJ Armstrong, Brian Shaw, Sam Cassell, Otis Thorpe, Tiago Splitter and many others want to welcome you to the club. Can you dig it? -
11-25-2014, 10:01 PMUNO Gracias
[QUOTE=DefensiveMind;1259989]I'll admit. I've held my tongue not wanting to be that guy..but no more. As far as I'm concerned Tyreke is Ricky Davis and AD is LeBron and we need to get that clown as far away from AD as possible. Ryan Anderson is Brad Sellers. While I'm not advocating that AD make Ryan cry in practice like MJ did Sellers, just make him uncomfortable enough that he'll okay a trade.
Jrue and Asik. The choice is yours. Horace Grant (2x), BJ Armstrong, Brian Shaw, Sam Cassell, Otis Thorpe, Tiago Splitter and many others want to welcome you to the club. Can you dig it?[/QUOTE
I forgot about half of those guys (Sellers, Davis, Armstrong).
I love it! -
11-25-2014, 10:06 PMDefensiveMind
While I'm at it.. Monty you can be Doug Collins in 88 or like your mentor. Get it together, bro. No way a Pop coached team let's them tune him out 14 games into the season.
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11-25-2014, 10:07 PMIamQuailmanJust sit back, pop open a brewskis, and watch the fireworks, Mikeypoo!Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-25-2014, 10:12 PMUNO GraciasIt's true. Monty isn't going to win you a title but he can coach up your talent for Phil, Doc, or a Van Gundy brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by DefensiveMind
Hell, the way Reke and Ryno like to toss it up, bring in some Nelly ball. Don Nelson should hold on to the reigns until we land that coach who can lead us there. -
11-25-2014, 10:31 PMPELICANSFAN
Asik is not athletic and can be frustrating to watch on offense. However, it was obvious that he was not close to 100% out there. He was hurting and moving even worse than usual.
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11-25-2014, 10:33 PMMMEmbreno
Back to the topic here, Asik has gotten schooled and worked by more people than just cousins. If I can recal Marc gasol had a fantastic game. We also can't forget al Jefferson or vucevic who both toyed with Asik as well. I'm not a huge Asik hater. I just don't like the fact that he is included in any way in our offense, and if he is he shouldn't and he is a horrible option so I thought it was a decent topic of discussion. He drops and loses more balls than he takes shot attempts. Shot attempts, my other point. He's too unathletic to jump more than an inch off the floor to get a decent shot off nor can he jump to defend a jump shooter. Yes I get his "presence" is there but we're gonna need more than that crap.
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11-25-2014, 10:35 PMMMEmbrenoMy main concern is his inability to catch the ball. It's scary. If he's not included in our offense, fine, not a problem at all, but he is, and he kills us. Not just this game. The first game I was pulling my hair out bc of his inability to catch a basketball and hold it for longer than a second.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
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11-25-2014, 10:37 PMPELICANSFANHe does have bad hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMEmbreno
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11-25-2014, 10:38 PMPelsFan2313
Didn't we know both of these things going into the season?
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11-25-2014, 10:40 PMMythrol
It's a sad, sad day when DT has to bring reason to a thread. All of you should go take a long hard look in the mirror.
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11-25-2014, 10:45 PMEman5805
His hands are bad. He's not a great athlete.
And there's maybe three or four centers in the whole league who would do a better job overall. -
11-25-2014, 11:05 PMPerth_HornetGold.Quote:
Originally Posted by DefensiveMind
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11-26-2014, 12:21 AMjcamp5
Omer Asik isn't a great offensive player?!! OMG, you're kidding. This is insane. The guy comes back from injury, grabs 5 offensive boards, shoots five times, misses 1 free throw, and has no turnovers. What a ball-hogging, game killing offensive performance!!! Get a grip, man.
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11-26-2014, 04:33 AMaddictionary
You don't expect to find the egg of an ostrich under a chicken. What he offers is obvious. And he will always give his best to contribute. He will give the other 4 players a lot of space on both ends. You don't get that from every other center in the league.
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11-26-2014, 09:57 AMAD23nEG10
the guy was playing his first game back after injury, clearly wasn't 100%. if anything the last 4 games he was out made his value that much more clear to me.
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11-26-2014, 10:09 AMsterlrMeanwhile his counterparts (all so far) has ripped a new oneSome of you guys don't get it. We need everyone on this team to be able do it at both ends in some compacity. Lopez was more competent than this guy. Thank God we only have one year with him. However based off recent history Monty and Dell Demps sees him as key figure for a championship run while AD get pissed off and then leaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcamp5
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11-26-2014, 10:47 AMNOEngineer
So, Asik is not Marc Gasol. Surprise! He isn't Greg Stiemsma either.
Anderson is not Kevin Love. Surprise! Do you want Lance Thomas back?
Evans is not Lebron. Surprise! I can't even remember another small forward that we had.
Holliday is not CP3. Surprise! Would you rather have Grevis Vasquez?
Each of our guys has at least one elite skill, and the reason we get to watch 4 guys with elite skill on our team (with a salary cap and the world's best player) is that they have some real weaknesses to their game. If they all did everything really well we could only afford one of them. We have to hope they learn, grow, improve, whatever or that they can cover for each other.
Gordon is injured. Surprise! Sorry, I'm not sure what his elite skill is yet.... -
11-26-2014, 10:50 AMHornetGuruHe's really elite at getting hurt and being overpaidQuote:
Originally Posted by NOEngineer
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11-26-2014, 11:43 AMMythrolWtf is this? If this was true then Portland wouldn't have felt the need to bring in Kaman to back him up and actually play significant minutes. He was exposed in playoffs for what he is. A good, but boy amazing center. Lopez is top 15. Asik is top 10 overall and top 3 defensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlr
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11-26-2014, 11:55 AMN.O.BroncoQuote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
Here's the real question now. Robin Lopez is a FA next season, so is Asik. Asik will likely cost more then Lopez. Are you willing to pay Asik 10+ million a year while a guy like Lopez will probably go for millions less? -
11-26-2014, 12:22 PMUNO Gracias
Not bashing Asik (only speaking of the Portland RoLo deal), but Portland was smart to bring in Kaman. Centers play a physically demanding position, and as such, having another big to split time with (actually its more like Rolo gets 50%, Kaman 25%, with Freeland and Meyer getting the rest). Its not a bad idea, and we implement the same thing here.
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11-26-2014, 12:28 PMMythrolWill Rolo get less? If so by how much?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco
I'd gladly pay Asik 10m/yr for what he gives us. Defense isn't pretty but it's just as important as the other half. -
11-26-2014, 12:43 PMN.O.BroncoI'd say given the glut of centers in FA coming up Lopez is likely going to get lowballed again. Heck Asik may come cheaper then we expect given the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
My point though was more one of opportunity costs. Is Asik worth the 5 million difference he currently is from Lopez? I would say absolutely not. Is he worth 2-3 million more then Lopez? Maybe. That's what I'm struggling with.
If the offseason was tomorrow and Asik's market value is 11 million a year and Lopez is 8 million would I still want Asik? I don't know. Asik is better defensively and rebounding but Lopez doesn't look like he is handling butter when he gets drop offs near the rim(which is a big part of Evans game) and is a 75% FT shooter and has been rock solid health wise for 2 years. Lopez also has a bit better mobility but Asik is a elite screen setter. A cheaper Lopez could free up money to bring in a 3 million a year role player or put toward a better SF. -
11-26-2014, 12:43 PMCaffeinedisastrHe's more like a Turkey.Quote:
Originally Posted by addictionary
......I'll see myself to the door now. -
11-26-2014, 12:45 PMaddictionaryLolQuote:
Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr
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11-26-2014, 01:18 PMMythrolIt's kind of hard to really know anything until we see what each one gets on the market. But you are still focused on the offensive end. Asik gives you top 3 production on the other side. Rolo is possibly a top 10 offensive center but only top half overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco
This is a typical over reaction to one game. Cousins is a beast of a center and Asik was coming back from a back injury.
3 million difference between Asik and Rolo is nothing when you take into account the huge spike in cap.
Just look at their stats this year. Even the complaint of stone hands Asik he has a near 50% LOWER TO rate than Rolo. He has double the FT rate, their TS % is within 2% of each other, and Asik has a 33% higher total rebounding %. The grass is always greener until you actually look at the numbers. -
11-26-2014, 06:28 PMsterlrExactly what I saidAsik is ONLY good for playing normal bigs in the leagues(not many). Against more mobile centers(alot). he' s too slow... causes breakdowns in the D once he gets beat by his man. I like him when we play the Lopez's and Hibberts of the NBA but more likely in the west he gets used big time by more mobile 5s'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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11-26-2014, 06:52 PMbillfromfinance
I am glad you guys aren't coach or GM, every single game would see a giant knee jerk reaction and a new lineup.
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11-26-2014, 07:37 PMMythrolSo wait, you honestly want to argue the angle that Asik is not a good defensive center? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by sterlr
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11-26-2014, 08:04 PMMMEmbrenoThe reason why I started this thread was to complain about his offensive production(only bc they keep giving him the ball) and his inability to guard athletic centers who can jump higher than him for rebounds/blocks. Asik can't jump at all, so on defense he struggles to get rebounds against centers who can jump higher than him. Same for blocks/contested shots. Yes, Asik is a presence and forces other centers into bad shots but he is literally the most unathletic center in the NBA. If you can show me a center who is less athletic please let me know. He struggles to block shots and when he is stuck on the perimeter with a quicker big(most bigs) or a mismatch then he is screwed. Like I keep saying, I'm not gonna complain about his D even though it frustrates me more than anything else, but I will complain about his offense or lack there of. If he's not included, great, if he is, IT IS A PROBLEM and that's why I wanted to address it. Does anybody not see Asik go up for a shot after a rebound and not be able to get off the ground and bc of that gets stuffed by the rim or a defender? Happens several times a night, several. On D it's the same thing, centers his size or smaller can simply jump hire than him to put shots over him, dude can not jump, period. I didn't mean to direct this reaponse at you haha I'm just ranting and that's how I feel based on what I see, not what I just make up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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11-26-2014, 08:17 PMMythrolWould you consider Rolo a good offensive center?Quote:
Originally Posted by MMEmbreno
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11-26-2014, 08:23 PMMMEmbrenoBetter than Asik... Better free throws, he got a jump hook (where he actually gets off the ground so the rim or opposing defenses can't stuff him). He also has a reliable midrange baseline jumper which Asik has not shown. Short answer to your question. Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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11-26-2014, 08:38 PMMythrolYet their TS% is only 2% different and Asik actually has a 50% lower TO%. Asik might not be pretty on offense but you can't argue that he hasn't been effective this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMEmbreno
So is your complaint he doesn't do it pretty enough?
Personally I don't care how it looks as long as it goes in the basket. We knew exactly what we were getting with Asik. We knew what he lacked on offense before he even came here. But let's not get silly and say "he's not athletic enough" on defense. Just last week I was reading where opposing teams were shooting like 36% around the rim with Asik in the game. Do you realize how low that is?
He doesn't get a ton of blocks but so what? He is an elite rebounder and rim protector and cleans up the glass on all those missed shots he creates on defense. Does he need to be athletic to be effective? Clearly not. So I don't see what the problem is. -
11-26-2014, 08:51 PMMMEmbrenoThe NBA is changing. Sure Asik is effective on D % wise, almost every post on this thread by myself has acknowledged that. He is great at positioning himself for rebounds. BUT. That doesn't work with the more athletic centers/PFs which is most of the NBA. Guys can jump out of the gym and big men can now take defenders off the dribble much easier than they did in the past. Plus, I am simply pointing out his defensive flaws and what he can't do, I don't like when people come back and tell me what he CAN do, bc I know what he can do. Do you see a ton of threads about the good things that players do every night? No, bc as fans we almost expect that(part optimistic part biased). So that being said, yes Asik is the best center we've had since Chandler, great. But my original point and the point I am still trying to prove is 1. His offense is not there, they don't count how many times they throw the ball to him and it just bounces off his hands and he loses it, why, bc it doesn't count as a TO bc he "didn't have possession" but it happens multiple times a night and he would average 3-4 TOs simply for not catching the ball. I pull my hair out every time it happens so I can't be the only one to notice it. 2nd point, yes he is Effective on D, sure stats stats all day, but I still use the eye test. When he gets burned by quicker bigs the basket is wide open or AD gets a bad foul. Also on defense, he can't jump at all so even if he is positioned perfectly, every big that is more athletic than him will cause him problems, and nobody has yet to tell me of a center who actually plays who is less athletic than Omer Asik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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11-26-2014, 08:52 PMMMEmbrenoThe NBA is changing. Sure Asik is effective on D % wise, almost every post on this thread by myself has acknowledged that. He is great at positioning himself for rebounds. BUT. That doesn't work with the more athletic centers/PFs which is most of the NBA. Guys can jump out of the gym and big men can now take defenders off the dribble much easier than they did in the past. Plus, I am simply pointing out his defensive flaws and what he can't do, I don't like when people come back and tell me what he CAN do, bc I know what he can do. Do you see a ton of threads about the good things that players do every night? No, bc as fans we almost expect that(part optimistic part biased). So that being said, yes Asik is the best center we've had since Chandler, great. But my original point and the point I am still trying to prove is 1. His offense is not there, they don't count how many times they throw the ball to him and it just bounces off his hands and he loses it, why, bc it doesn't count as a TO bc he "didn't have possession" but it happens multiple times a night and he would average 3-4 TOs simply for not catching the ball. I pull my hair out every time it happens so I can't be the only one to notice it. 2nd point, yes he is Effective on D, sure stats stats all day, but I still use the eye test. When he gets burned by quicker bigs the basket is wide open or AD gets a bad foul. Also on defense, he can't jump at all so even if he is positioned perfectly, every big that is more athletic than him will cause him problems, and nobody has yet to tell me of a center who actually plays who is less athletic than Omer Asik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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11-26-2014, 08:57 PMMMEmbreno
The NBA is alllllll about athletiscm these days. That's why point guards are dunking on people, are point guards today traditional point guards like they used to be? No, but the NBA is changing and Asik gets worked by soooo many players, outside of his rebounding and contesting shots, which are his BEST ATTRIBUTES, so im not here to argue about what he can do, I'm saying what he can't do. Put Deandre Jordan, Drummond, Magee, next to AD, any athletic center who can move just a little side to side off the dribble to defend and jump off the floor for blocked shots and rebounds that Asik will never be able to get, then we have a scary team.
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11-26-2014, 09:48 PModine
the missed tip ins are infuriating there is no denying that
the reason why need Asik is because the west are full of ticonderuga class of NBA Big Men: Marc Gazol, Zbo, Dwight howard, demarcus Cousins, Blake Griffin and Tim Duncan. Phoenix Suns have young athletic center in Mason Plumlee, look at where they are now.
Asik played against duncan and Gasol very well. I bet would have made Cousins miserable last night had he had not back problem. -
11-26-2014, 09:52 PModineWhy don't we just get Kevin Durant? imagine how good this team with him sharing the floor with AD and Asik, Pels will have the best offense and defense in the leagueQuote:
Originally Posted by MMEmbreno