So I wanted to look into our salary cap situation for next year.
We were on the books for 58.6 million next year, then upon not picking up austin rivers' option, dropped us down to 55.3 million. The estimated salary cap for next year is between 63-66 million.
This gives us roughly 10 million in free agency to spend. All this would really allow us to do is resign Asik.
OR if we were to use the stretch provision on eric gordon it would free up another 7.75 million by cutting his 15.5 million in half. Now we are only on the books for 47.55 million. Now we would have 18-19 million to play with.
Give Omer Asik and draymond green both 9 million dollar contracts.
Who's with me?
Some Salary Cap #'s
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11-20-2014, 04:45 PMHornetGuruSome Salary Cap #'s
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11-20-2014, 04:53 PMneitzelbaby12
Can you explain the stretch provision?
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11-20-2014, 04:55 PMHornetGuruI believe you can take a players remaining years on a contract and stretch them onto additional years. For example, Gordon has 1 more year with us for 15.5 million. Use the stretch provision and then it becomes only 7.75 million that counts against our cap next year, and another 7.75 against our cap the following year even when he isn't on the team. It's an emergency way of clearing cap space.Quote:
Originally Posted by neitzelbaby12
Someone correct me if i'm wrong, i'm no expert. -
11-20-2014, 05:15 PMMichaelMcNamara
1. You wouldn't have 10 million to spend, because you would have cap holds - including Asik's, unless you renounce his Bird Rights (which we won't). And even if we do, you have holds of about 500K for every empty roster spot. So, the likelihood is that we have zero cap space and use the MLE and the biannual
2. The stretch provision is length of contract times 2, plus one. So, Gordon's 15.5 million would count for 5.16 million each of the next three years.
If someone wants to know more, I have done extensive articles on it
http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...g-eric-gordon/
http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...beasley-model/ -
11-20-2014, 05:16 PMHornetGuruI knew u'd chime in, thanks! Do you think its possible we use it on him this year or no?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
Also would u mind explaining what u mean by a cap hold? I thought Asik was an UFA?
Thanks. -
11-20-2014, 05:21 PMgreeweWe have Asik's Bird rights, meaning we can exceed the cap to re-sign him. So that teams don't take advantage of this, there exists a "cap hold" based on the player's last contract. If we renounce Asik's Bird rights, we get rid of the cap hold, but then we can't exceed the cap to retain him.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
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11-20-2014, 05:21 PMMichaelMcNamaraNo, I don't think we will use the stretch, because I doubt we want dead money on our books when the salary cap spikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
A cap hold is what allows you to use Bird Rights on a player. You can't, for instance, use up all your cap space on free agents and then go over the cap by signing Asik. In order to go over the cap with his salary, his cap hold must stay on the books. Asik's cap hold is 12.5 million. Meaning, effectively we will enter free agency next summer over the cap - which is a good thing because it allows us to use the MLE.
Bottom line, we won't have cap room unless Gordon is gone one way or the other by next summer. -
11-20-2014, 05:24 PMBallSoHard
Stetch Provision
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+the+stretch+provision+ -
11-20-2014, 05:25 PMBallSoHard
I don't see why we'd use the stretch provision after waiting all this time; We can just wait for one more seaosn and have the whole thing off the books. Pass on that.
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11-20-2014, 05:37 PMHornetGuruSo is there any way we have a shot at signing draymond or unlikely?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
Also thanks for the response. -
11-20-2014, 05:45 PMMichaelMcNamaraIf Gordon is off the roster, it is possible. If not, look for cheaper options like Damarre Carroll. Or a one year rental while you wait for the class of 2016 and/or a trade that summer where you can just take on salary without giving any back.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
This is why, even though it might hurt us this season, I would trade Eric Gordon for an expiring contract that can't contribute (think Steve Nash). I would be willing to miss the playoffs this year to land Butler or a Green. The 2015 small forward market is decent. Won't be that way in 2016 unless we can lure Durant or Batum. -
11-20-2014, 05:46 PMAUSSIE_PELICANWhat if D. Green accepts MLE (which I think is in the 6-7M range).Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
He will get more than that in FA....I would think though.
What I want to know can GS offer more than 6-7M to retain him without going into lux territory? -
11-20-2014, 05:47 PMHornetGuruThats not a bad idea but I wonder why anyone would do that trade with us, why trade an already expiring for a player they will have to wait a year for to expire, unless they think he is good or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
Also draymond and jimmy butler are 2 players I love. Jimmy Butler would be a dream come true, I just thought we could never ever afford him. -
11-20-2014, 06:12 PMMichaelMcNamara
I don't think we can trade Gordon for an expiring. I was just saying - if we could - I would do it. Even if it meant finishing 9th in the West this year as opposed to 7th or 8th
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11-20-2014, 06:28 PMAUSSIE_PELICANWhat if D. Green accepts MLE (which I think is in the 6-7M range).Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
He will get more than that in FA....I would think though.
What I want to know can GS offer more than 6-7M to retain him without going into lux territory? -
11-20-2014, 06:36 PMLOLLakers
Draymond Green is worth way more than the MLE. There is no chance he takes that contract especially since he is a restricted free agent.
Also re: Asik look at what Vucevic signed for and start your negotiation right there because that is what his agent will ask for. 9 mil a year for him is going to be insulting.
If we could somehow get DeMarre Carroll though I would be thrilled. -
11-20-2014, 07:47 PMHornetGuruWould it be possible to sign draymond to like a 4 year 40 million deal and just backload his contract? like 5 mil in year 1, 15 in year 2 and 10 in year 3 and 4?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-20-2014, 08:08 PMbillfromfinance
it is probably possible in theory, but why on earth would he do that? he seems to be very happy with the warriors, they are very happy with him, and it's only 1 year in the tax if they match and keep him yeah?
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11-20-2014, 08:22 PMMichaelMcNamaraNo. Can't do raises like that. Backend contracts is a football thing. Can't do it in NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
Even Asik and Lin's deals didn't count like that against the cap. You can only have up to 4.5% raises or declines each year if you sign another teams player. -
11-20-2014, 08:57 PMSaintPelican225I think this will be the likely scenario. I have come to terms with the fact EG will be here next season. But, if we can keep Asik and sign Carroll I would be happy with that...I would like Dell to bring in a veteran PG to run the second unit next year as well......Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-20-2014, 09:02 PMPerth_Hornet
The more I read about NBA contractual rules the more I am confuse
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11-20-2014, 09:07 PMMichaelMcNamaraCould theoretically do that with the bi-annual exception next year. Guy like CJ Watson would be fine with me if Russ isn't ready yetQuote:
Originally Posted by SaintPelican225
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11-20-2014, 09:14 PMAUSSIE_PELICANSo you think the Pel's will be able to sign a player like Carrol or Crowder or Middleton using some of MLE and have enough for a veteran PG like Watson also?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
BTW what is the MLE next year (6M??) -
11-20-2014, 09:15 PMMichaelMcNamaraNo - if you are over the cap, you have the MLE (which would start around 5.4 next year) and the bi-annual (2.1 mil)Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
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11-20-2014, 09:19 PMAUSSIE_PELICANOk thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
So a guy like Carrol or Crowder or Middleton could be had for the MLE and a guy like Watson for the Bi-annual.
That would a nice team next season....especially with the core having another year under their belt:
Holiday/Watson/Smith
Gordon
Evans/Carrol or Crowder or Middleton
Davis/Anderson/Young
Asik/ -
11-20-2014, 09:29 PMMichaelMcNamaraOr imagine if you could unload Gordon, get an even better SF, bring Rivers back as backup SG, and get another physical 4th big. If Dell could somehow unload that contract, they could contend as soon as next yearQuote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
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11-20-2014, 09:35 PMAUSSIE_PELICANCan't see it happening....but I didn't see the Asik deal happening either so who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
It's a shame that more than likely River's won't be here next year.
If River's doesn't improve greatly from last year....do you think anyone will pay him more than what the Pel's declined?
That way instead of paying Watson 2.1M we could sign River's instead.
Can you split the MLE between two players? -
11-20-2014, 09:39 PMMichaelMcNamaraYou can sign Rivers with Bird Rights. Wouldn't effect either exception. Can sign all our own players and use MLE and bi-annual.Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
My question is if we can move Gordon next summer if we attach a 1st round pick to him. That's all it took to move Lin, who was also owed 15 mil for 1 year. If we keep our pick, I would gladly give it up to dump Gordon and free that space. Or if we gave up the Houston pick, I would gladly trade a future pick to dump his salary. Do that, and you can easily land a huge upgrade at SF, re-sign Asik, and fill out your bench. -
11-20-2014, 09:44 PMHornetGurugotcha thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-20-2014, 10:22 PMMythrolDon't play with my emotions that way! I'd do it in a heartbeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-20-2014, 10:42 PMLOLLakers
Who exactly is a huge upgrade at SF
I don't see anyone better than Carroll being available especially taking fit into account
I would much rather just go for him at the MLE -
11-20-2014, 11:35 PMMichaelMcNamaraAny of the Greens and Jimmy Butler. Also, don't forget Dell usually adds pieces via trade. You clear Gordon from the books, and that brings pretty much any SF into play because then you can do uneven trades.Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLLakers
Getting rid of Gordon gives you flexibility. Any time you give Dell flexibility, he works his magic. So, I don't care to speculate who it could be. All I know is that is if it gives Dell flexibility, and if that happens we will get a great piece that will fit much better than Gordon -
11-21-2014, 01:35 AMPerth_Hornet
Casspi with 14 points again today.
This is really getting my goat. He was right in our lap. -
11-21-2014, 02:13 AMAUSSIE_PELICANGet over it my brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perth_Hornet
He didn't want to be here.
He hasn't got a 3 point shot and is another slasher.
We have plenty of those. -
11-21-2014, 03:00 AMpawel
Michael (and other guys)
Right know we are on 20th place in tankhaton http://www.tankathon.com/ - which means we will stay with the pick in 2015 draft. Let's assume that we will stay on this place.
When can we use pick as a piece of a trade (f.e. in Gordon trade, whatever). Having in mind that our future pick is owed to Houston.
Before the draft/after/or we can't do it?
Or do we have to use the pick and than trade it like in Noel case (I think that it is the answer).
Expiring contract and sweetener might be better for other teams to take Gordon, as You mentioned above. -
11-21-2014, 04:11 AMPerth_HornetDid he ever say he didn't want to be here publicly?Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN
Would have meant no Salmons on the roster too. -
11-21-2014, 05:11 AMdurunSo you are willing to miss the playoffs. That's very generous of you. Hope you told Benson to keep Dell and Monty too.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-21-2014, 05:20 AMdurun
[QUOTE=MichaelMcNamara;1258136]Or imagine if you could unload Gordon, get an even better SF, bring Rivers back as backup SG, and get another physical 4th big. If Dell could somehow unload that contract, they could contend as soon as next year[/QUOTE
Who is an even better SF than Evans? You stated swings are interchangeable on the offense so what are you implying about Evans? -
11-21-2014, 05:20 AMdurun
[QUOTE=MichaelMcNamara;1258136]Or imagine if you could unload Gordon, get an even better SF, bring Rivers back as backup SG, and get another physical 4th big. If Dell could somehow unload that contract, they could contend as soon as next year[/QUOTE
Who is an even better SF than Evans? You stated swings are interchangeable on the offense so what are you implying about Evans? -
11-21-2014, 05:26 AMjcamp5
Would anyone trade Ryno if it meant packaging Gordon?
Ryno and EJ for Amare's expiring?
Ryno and EJ for Rondo's expiring and Jeff Green?
I might do it. That's $23m ($14m and Jeff Green) off the books at the end of the year. I love Ryno, but I think we could do more with the money. -
11-21-2014, 05:54 AMAUSSIE_PELICANDavid 'Dubi' Pick: "This is a big season for my career, it's important that I play," Omri Casspi said upon arrival in Israel. New Orleans isn't the best situation for me. We'll finalize terms of split," Omri Casspi added.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perth_Hornet
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11-21-2014, 06:42 AMMichaelMcNamara
[QUOTE=durun;1258156]
They are interchangeable on offense, not defense. Fact is that you want Evans guarding Ben McLemore, not Rudy Gay if you had the choice. Plus, I imagine that Evans layups will start going in more when he has less length covering him on the defensive end. You move Evans to SG and get a guy like Butler, one of the Green's, or heck, Demarre Carroll to defend SF's, and this team is much better IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-21-2014, 07:48 AMPelsFan2313
[QUOTE=MichaelMcNamara;1258161]
Interesting thought. That could be a contributing factor to his declining finishing ability at the rim for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by durun
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11-21-2014, 08:03 AMMichaelMcNamara
[QUOTE=PelsFan2313;1258169]
My theory is that it is a combination of:Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
Having more length on him than usual when he played guard in the past (30%)
Him knowing he has bigs to clean up his mess even if he misses, so he takes lower percentage shots (25%)
Inability to palm a basketball (20%)
Mental - misses get in his head, he tries harder, misses more (15%)
Early season and still getting into basketball shape after offseason surgery (10%) -
11-21-2014, 08:08 AMBP225The fact that they didn't pick up Rivers option when as you've pointed out that's kind of pointless if you don't move Gordon makes me hopeful. Although it wouldn't be the first time Dell was wrong about his ability to move Gordon.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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11-21-2014, 08:18 AMMichaelMcNamaraI think his "in case of emergency, break bottle" plan is to ship Gordon with a future 1st or two next summer. The hope is that he will play well enough that he won't have to include picks for some team to take Gordon or that Gordon plays well enough in his own mind for him to be delusional enough to opt out.Quote:
Originally Posted by BP225
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11-21-2014, 08:39 AMRaisingTheBar
I'm curious as to see how many people just want Gordon's salary off the books by any means necessary or if they would just rather let it expire? Personally I think if we get him off the books it gives our GM more room to do his job but curious as to what the majority thinks.