Anderson for Monroe ?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...ign-and-trade/

I've always liked Monroe I hope we pull this off somehow, not saying for Anderson specifically but I hope we get Monroe

I don't know if Dell/Monty thinks Babbit could fill the "stretch 4" spot if they trade Ryno, but this is interesting if true.

Stretch 4 is really a luxury to have, not a necessity. A big guy like Monroe at C is a necessity so that's why I'd do the trade.

Just saw this today it has been confirmed that we called and asked about Monroe, doesn't mention anything further. the article also says that Monroe wants a Max contract wherever he goes, so you can count me out of the Monroe to the Pels fan club. Here is the link to the article:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...medium=twitter

I believe I would make the trade I know Ryno is a fav around here but Monroe would be worth it plus he's a hometown guy .

What needs to be established before the debate is had is the one unknown: Monroe's price tag.

Max contract will be around 4 yrs/68 million.

If the trade means giving Monroe that, I would be against it. If he takes a discount, say 4/50-52, then we can talk. But the contract has to be known before we can have a legit debate about this.

This has been talked about for awhile, I just dont see it happening, but I wouldn't be upset if it did

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Originally Posted by jgman

This has been talked about for awhile, I just dont see it happening, but I wouldn't be upset if it did

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If Monroe is making 16+ mil a season, I would be. You can argue he is better than Ryno. You cant argue he is twice as good IMO.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

What needs to be established before the debate is had is the one unknown: Monroe's price tag.

Max contract will be around 4 yrs/68 million.

If the trade means giving Monroe that, I would be against it. If he takes a discount, say 4/50-52, then we can talk. But the contract has to be known before we can have a legit debate about this.

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do you think someone would actually give monroe would get 4yr/68mil? I would agree I wouldn't want that price tag

Why can't guys after watching SA just want to be apart of something bigger for us :(

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Why can't guys after watching SA just want to be apart of something bigger for us :(

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hey Morrow is thinking about opting in, that's something right?...right?

I'm all for it assuming that ItsRynosTime is part of the deal

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Originally Posted by jgman

do you think someone would actually give monroe would get 4yr/68mil? I would agree I wouldn't want that price tag

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He will ask for it, and you look at all the teams with cap room and the lack of quality FA's and I can definitely see it. He turned down a 4 yr/50 mil extension, so I just dont think he comes at what his true value is. This is the key to the whole debate - the price tag.

People cant just say that they would prefer Monroe over Ryno. It's - Monroe vs. Ryno and another 7-8 million dollar player.

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Originally Posted by jgman

hey Morrow is thinking about opting in, that's something right?...right?

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Ugh! lol

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Why can't guys after watching SA just want to be apart of something bigger for us :(

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They will once we get good.

Always been my argument with Dell's plan. You get the foundation set, get better quicker, and then guys want to be a part of it at a discount and/or your draft picks hit more often because they are asked to do less. 2-3 years from now, we will get discount guys, maybe even some of our own resigning at a discount just to play with AD

Serious question... Is Greg Monroe worth max money? I've only seen a few Detroit games and those were the ones they played against N.O.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Serious question... Is Greg Monroe worth max money? I've only seen a few Detroit games and those were the ones they played against N.O.

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Not really. But probably 3/4 of the guys with maxes don't deserve them.

I really like Monroe. But for a max deal? Uh uh. No thank you. Hopefully no one in the league is reckless enough to give him that much money so we can get him at market value.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He will ask for it, and you look at all the teams with cap room and the lack of quality FA's and I can definitely see it. He turned down a 4 yr/50 mil extension, so I just dont think he comes at what his true value is. This is the key to the whole debate - the price tag.

People cant just say that they would prefer Monroe over Ryno. It's - Monroe vs. Ryno and another 7-8 million dollar player.

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I didn't know he turned that down already, I honestly wouldn't go more than a couple mil more than 50mil/4yr so if he already turned that down I'm much more hesitant

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Not really. But probably 3/4 of the guys with maxes don't deserve them.

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+1

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

What needs to be established before the debate is had is the one unknown: Monroe's price tag.

Max contract will be around 4 yrs/68 million.

If the trade means giving Monroe that, I would be against it. If he takes a discount, say 4/50-52, then we can talk. But the contract has to be known before we can have a legit debate about this.

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Agree. Looking at how the Spurs won, they first won on the contract end of things. Not a single core player made more than $10.3 mil a season. While we don't have the luxury of a winning culture like the Spurs do, we do have a few nice pieces on amazing contracts (Jrue, Ryno, AD). % wise, I wouldn't want Monroe taking more than Jrue or Ryno, but I doubt that is possible, so the next best thing we could ask for is for him to take a contract comparable to what players of his caliber are getting, and not a cent more. He isn't a max player, so we shouldn't have to pay him like one.

I would give him $10-$10.5 mil, but that's about it.

He is a limited offensive player than really doesnt improve the defense when you compare him to Ryno. I still have not heard a decent argument as to how he makes this team better than Ryno would. But even if I said that he was a 10% upgrade, you dont do a 10% upgrade for 190% the salary.

I mean, he would be making 5 million more than Jrue and Tyreke, who would be the 2nd and 3rd options in that core 4. Monroe would be our 4th best player, making 5 mil more than Jrue and Tyreke and 10 mil more than AD. No thanks. If he wants to take a hometown discount, then I could go along with it. But I cant possibly see the argument if it takes a max contract or something close to get him.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

They will once we get good.

Always been my argument with Dell's plan. You get the foundation set, get better quicker, and then guys want to be a part of it at a discount and/or your draft picks hit more often because they are asked to do less. 2-3 years from now, we will get discount guys, maybe even some of our own resigning at a discount just to play with AD

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Where's is the history for this plan? This has been my issue with the concept that player X will just attract other players at a discount to boot. What history has shown us is that player X is far more likely to go somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I would give him $10-$10.5 mil, but that's about it.

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Bingo. I would be happy to get him if:

1) He signs a deal no greater than 11 mill/yr

or...

2) We can somehow flip Gordon's junky contract for GM, and keep Ryno.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Agree. Looking at how the Spurs won, they first won on the contract end of things. Not a single core player made more than $10.3 mil a season. While we don't have the luxury of a winning culture like the Spurs do, we do have a few nice pieces on amazing contracts (Jrue, Ryno, AD). % wise, I wouldn't want Monroe taking more than Jrue or Ryno, but I doubt that is possible, so the next best thing we could ask for is for him to take a contract comparable to what players of his caliber are getting, and not a cent more. He isn't a max player, so we shouldn't have to pay him like one.

I would give him $10-$10.5 mil, but that's about it.

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I think looking at the Spurs model and trying to copy the way they do things is a fools game. Cant duplicate it until you have built up a core and a reputation for 10 years. Not like they had Duncan on a discount in his prime. When the guys are in their prime and havent won a title yet, you arent getting them to take discounts - especially for a franchise with no championship pedigree.

Gonna have to pay now, and the discounts will come down the line

My max for Monroe would be in the 12.5-13 range. That's an acceptable amount of over compensation given where I have him currently rated.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Where's is the history for this plan? This has been my issue with the concept that player X will just attract other players at a discount to boot. What history has shown us is that player X is far more likely to go somewhere else.

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Year after year, you look at the players who sign for below market value in free agency and it is with contending teams. You dont see Milwaukee getting someone on a bargain. Contenders get guys on discounts and/or they get buyout guys, etc. Contenders also resign their own players on a discount. I mean, what would Ibaka be getting on the open market?

You show the league you can win and you get guys at below market prices. You never have guys refusing to go to your team in a trade, so that avenue is always open. Get to that level and things open up to you that are not open when you are a non contender

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Agree. Looking at how the Spurs won, they first won on the contract end of things. Not a single core player made more than $10.3 mil a season. While we don't have the luxury of a winning culture like the Spurs do, we do have a few nice pieces on amazing contracts (Jrue, Ryno, AD). % wise, I wouldn't want Monroe taking more than Jrue or Ryno, but I doubt that is possible, so the next best thing we could ask for is for him to take a contract comparable to what players of his caliber are getting, and not a cent more. He isn't a max player, so we shouldn't have to pay him like one.

I would give him $10-$10.5 mil, but that's about it.

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I agree, but he already turned down 4yr/50mil so I don't think he takes that

I'm with MM if he takes a discount I'm all for it but I like. Detroit will move him, he and Drummond are awful defensively together. Drummond and Josh Smith would pair much better and why would they want Anderson when they would still have a problem with Smith at the 3. He was not just bad offensively at 3 but horrible defensively and the 3 so having him run around chasing SF's wold take away their paint protection.

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Originally Posted by jgman

I agree, but he already turned down 4yr/50mil so I don't think he takes that

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The let him turn us down. No way he warrants that kind of cash. I would pay top Dollar for Marc Gasol, but not for Monroe.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Year after year, you look at the players who sign for below market value in free agency and it is with contending teams. You dont see Milwaukee getting someone on a bargain. Contenders get guys on discounts and/or they get buyout guys, etc. Contenders also resign their own players on a discount. I mean, what would Ibaka be getting on the open market?

You show the league you can win and you get guys at below market prices. You never have guys refusing to go to your team in a trade, so that avenue is always open. Get to that level and things open up to you that are not open when you are a non contender

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Again Cleveland and Toronto were winning with Superstars and nobody took less to go there. Lets see if players line up to go to Charlotte, Indiana, or Toronto at below market value this offseason.

my take is lets actually wait till Davis becomes an mvp caliber player and until we actually become title contender to talk about players taking pay cuts to come here

Cleveland got Shaq to come there. Amare was willing to come there but Cleveland did not want to part with JJ Hickson. Those guys don't go to a regular Cleveland team.

I don't see Charlotte or Toronto as contenders. Indy either, really. I am talking about the level Miami, OKC, SA, and LAC were perceived to be on this year before the season started. You get to that level and more avenues are open to you. AD will have to get to the Lebron and KD level for this to happen, but I think he will get there. When he does, things will open up a bit more. And its not just FA's. Again, it is getting other players to tell their team that they want to be traded to your team or signing your own guys at a bit of a discount because they want to play with one of the best players in the league.

Would they take EG?

do you think there would be any shot at further compensation from detroit? even as bad gordon's contract is, Ryno & Gordon for Monroe still seems like we should get somethin else back like a future pick or something

True story about players taking pay cuts. We havent proven anything for a player to take a pay cut to come here. The Spurs, and the Pistons got lucky in that players they won titles weren't as desired as the player who we will need to win a title. Even if AD becomes an all world talent we will still need a solid sf and a solid center, and those positions will command top dollar, so yeah...we will have to start drafting better, and we will have to start winning more to get those players to come here on a discount.

I think the Spurs showed how valuable it is to have shooters and you really cant have too many. I would pass on this

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Originally Posted by All Metro

I think the Spurs showed how valuable it is to have shooters and you really cant have too many. I would pass on this

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Thats true. They had mediocre- avg. centers (if you are calling Duncan a 4, and if you consider Duncan a 5 they had mediocre 4's), but they always had shooters. More reason to pass on Monroe.

Well he rebounds better than Ryno. Enough to justify paying him almost twice the salary?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Cleveland got Shaq to come there. Amare was willing to come there but Cleveland did not want to part with JJ Hickson. Those guys don't go to a regular Cleveland team.

I don't see Charlotte or Toronto as contenders. Indy either, really. I am talking about the level Miami, OKC, SA, and LAC were perceived to be on this year before the season started. You get to that level and more avenues are open to you. AD will have to get to the Lebron and KD level for this to happen, but I think he will get there. When he does, things will open up a bit more. And its not just FA's. Again, it is getting other players to tell their team that they want to be traded to your team or signing your own guys at a bit of a discount because they want to play with one of the best players in the league.

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Shaq really. Over the hill out of shape Shaq is that really the best you could do. LOL

The Amar'e trade was speculation. We don't know if Amar'e wanted to be traded to Cleveland. What we do know is when he was a FA he went to the Knicks.

Lets not be prisoners of the moment. Spurs lost to Heat last year and the Thunder the year before. Not like their way is the only way to do it. And its not like their style is just as easy to reproduce as just throwing good shooters and willing passers on the court. Gotta build the best team you can fitting your superstar. If Duncan was in his prime, they wouldn't have built this way. The Spurs of the early-mid 2000s looked nothing like the 2014 Spurs.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Shaq really. Over the hill out of shape Shaq is that really the best you could do. LOL

The Amar'e trade was speculation. We don't know if Amar'e wanted to be traded to Cleveland. What we do know is when he was a FA he went to the Knicks.

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And what big names got traded to Cleveland or almost traded to Cleveland in the interim?

It is undeniable that they had more options with Lebron than without him. They happened to target the wrong guys in my opinion, but they had options that they haven't had since.

If gives you more options, but more options don't guarantee that you are going to get it right. Don't confuse one argument for the other.

Yeah I wouldn't give Monroe a max deal. I don't think he's worth that much not mention he will really be a gloried role player next to AD. I would maybe give him a deal similar to Ryno's. But I can't fathom giving a player a max deal when he's really only going to average 14 points 8 rebounds and maybe a little over one block a game next to AD.

There is no prisoner of the moment vibe here. You honestly don't need a dominant center to win a title. You need shooters, and you need guys who can create. You also need a franchise player. Lucky for us we have 1 of those 3.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2014.html mediocre - avg. 5, shooters all over
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html mediocre 5, shooters all over.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2005.html mediocre 5, shooters all over.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html David Robinson and Kevin Willis at the 5, amazing talent everywhere.

For all intents and purposes, they are the model to follow..until AD starts befriending other Super Stars and has them come join him down here. The Spurs model requires skill in scouting, and skill in coaching. I am not saying we don't have those things, but we need to get better at both.

Question: when do we actually start seeing moves being made? (is there is a date for when free agency begins or what)

If you do Monroe (at a max) for Gordon and Ryno, you are about 14 mil under the cap. Could get to about 20 mil under next year. If you can land a Parsons or a Butler or a Leonard, it makes it well worth overpaying him, but then Benson would have to be willing to go into the tax in 2016. Cant avoid it with AD's monster raise coming.

If it don't bother him, it don't bother me, but giving Monroe a deal like that means you are paying him and AD close to 37 mil in 2016-17 and 2017-18

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

There is no prisoner of the moment vibe here. You honestly don't need a dominant center to win a title. You need shooters, and you need guys who can create. You also need a franchise player. Lucky for us we have 1 of those 3.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2014.html mediocre - avg. 5, shooters all over
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html mediocre 5, shooters all over.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2005.html mediocre 5, shooters all over.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html David Robinson and Kevin Willis at the 5, amazing talent everywhere.

For all intents and purposes, they are the model to follow..until AD starts befriending other Super Stars and has them come join him down here. The Spurs model requires skill in scouting, and skill in coaching. I am not saying we don't have those things, but we need to get better at both.

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LAC had two franchise players (arguably) and a ton of shooters. Its not that simple. Rockets, same thing.

Spurs were a team that had a chemistry and cohesion you can only get with time. Trying to copy them (the 2014 version) would be foolish IMO, unless you are willing to wait 8-10 years for it all to gel just right.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He is a limited offensive player than really doesnt improve the defense when you compare him to Ryno. I still have not heard a decent argument as to how he makes this team better than Ryno would. But even if I said that he was a 10% upgrade, you dont do a 10% upgrade for 190% the salary.

I mean, he would be making 5 million more than Jrue and Tyreke, who would be the 2nd and 3rd options in that core 4. Monroe would be our 4th best player, making 5 mil more than Jrue and Tyreke and 10 mil more than AD. No thanks. If he wants to take a hometown discount, then I could go along with it. But I cant possibly see the argument if it takes a max contract or something close to get him.

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I agree. He is not that much better. I question how good a fit he is if we do intend to become a more uptempo team. His P&R defense is not that good either. I don't think he improves us enough to warrant a max contract and a player like Anderson who is on a very good contract.

LAC have a franchise pg who chokes up in big games, and a franchise dunker. Not what the Spurs have in Parker and Duncan. Moving forward over the next 3 years I would actually take Parker and Duncan over what LA has...and I bet LA would too.

Look at those Spurs teams that won titles, most of the guys outside of the big 3 were guns for hire brought in that season or the season prior. Our goal right now is to get AD to be a franchise player, get Jrue and and Reke getting to that Parker Manu level, and decking out team out with more Morrows and Andersons and fewer Gordons and Rivers. Heck pick up more of your PJ Tuckers types I suppose, just get stable players as opposed to caliber we have masquerading as NBA players here.

We also would need an effective system. Monty should have experience, and an understanding of this as he was working under Pops. You don't need amazing talent across the board, you need to know how to best use your talent.

We both agree, Monroe at such a high price is unnecessary as paying that much for a center of his caliber is just outrageous in today's game.