Hibbert

According to Chris Broussard on Mike&Mike this morning, Larry Bird will be actively trying to move Roy Hibbert this offseason if he continues to struggle this postseason.

So I ask you...Gordon for Hibbert? Who says no?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l5nq5tl

i still think they could get more than Gordon for Hibbert still besides how bad he's played since all star break but its definitely at least a discussion now if someone comes & swoops up Lance Stephenson, leaving Indiana with a hole at the 2

I'd give them Gordon but not much more. We don't need Hibbert to go off scoring every night, just rebound and defend.

I think we would undoubtedly say yes.

The question becomes whether they can get a better offer. If I were them, I would re-sign Stephenson, so I would be looking for a quicker 5 and/or a trade exception. A perfect trade, for instance, would be Brandan Wright for Hibbert. Gives Indy a guy they could go uptempo with and a 10 million dollar trade exception to get other pieces. Dallas, meanwhile, gets an anchor for their D.

I just dont see why Indy would want Gordon unless they couldnt get offers from anyone else, and I think they will get other offers

I don't know...hibbert would fill a need but what we need from a center is rebounding, defense and efficiency. Hibbert is not efficient and he's probably the 2nd worst rebounder of 7'0 or above, right after mr soft bargnani. And gordon would go away after 1 year with that player option i think...i suppose i would do it but meh...not a lot happy about it

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I'd give them Gordon but not much more. We don't need Hibbert to go off scoring every night, just rebound and defend.

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But just look at what you said. REBOUND and defend. Honestly I'm not sure if I would want Gordon or Hibbert. Just seems like a step sideways to me. Hibbert's contract is ridiculous especially for the numbers that he put up in the second half of the season. I mean for being 7'2 he couldn't grab one rebound. 7'2" = 0 rebounds. Do we really want that? Do we really dislike Gordon that much?

I just looked at his game log. Hibbert had 37 games this season were he had 5 or less rebounds.

More rebounds for AD, perfect

I don't think hibbert would fit our defensive scheme either, he's just not mobile enough

Indy will definitely get a better deal, there will be teams out there overlooking hibbert's "slump". Hibbert for Gordon sounds and looks like a NBA 2k trade.

The Pacers as a team got the most defensive rebounds per game & #9 in least amount of offensive rebounds allowed. Maybe he's taking the opposing teams best rebounder of a play, or maybe they just commit to doing it as a team. I understand its alarming but don't you want a C who rebounds alot because you assume it'll be an indication that you have a good rebounding team? Some teams just do it by comity.

People talking about Hibbert being too slow... if you have Him, AD & RyNo you can come up with a combo for practically any situation defensively. Against a team who can stretch the floor Hibbert will sit & AD slides to C. If you have a guy inside like Al Jefferson or Dwight you have the luxury of having a guy like Hibbert who is good defensively when he isn't pulled too far from the rim

Al Jefferson and Dwight Howard also don't look like their are wearing heelys on the court.

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Originally Posted by Ludiculous

But just look at what you said. REBOUND and defend. Honestly I'm not sure if I would want Gordon or Hibbert. Just seems like a step sideways to me. Hibbert's contract is ridiculous especially for the numbers that he put up in the second half of the season. I mean for being 7'2 he couldn't grab one rebound. 7'2" = 0 rebounds. Do we really want that? Do we really dislike Gordon that much?

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Originally Posted by Ludiculous

I just looked at his game log. Hibbert had 37 games this season were he had 5 or less rebounds.

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Look at his minutes. He isn't much of an offensive threat, he played less than 30 minutes per game. I'm not saying he's a top rebounder, because he isn't, so to already be not one of the best and then to play under 30 mpg doesn't help your cause.

He would be a walking double double guy if he played "starters" minutes. This year is a fluke year though, something happened in that locker room mid-season, don't know if it well ever come out, but it obviously effected Hibbert more than anyone else. Only reason I'd want him here is because I feel like we would be buying low and that he can play much better than he has this season.

MM, is former Helen Cox and current Detroit Piston Greg Monroe off the trading block? I would prefer him over Hibbert. Maybe a 3 team trade, send Hibbert to Det., Monroe to NO, Gordon to Indy. The numbers don't add up, but if you throw in a Stucky or Villanueva they would.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

MM, is former Helen Cox and current Detroit Piston Greg Monroe off the trading block? I would prefer him over Hibbert. Maybe a 3 team trade, send Hibbert to Det., Monroe to NO, Gordon to Indy. The numbers don't add up, but if you throw in a Stucky or Villanueva they would.

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Only problem with this really is Detroit would end up with Hibbert and Drummond.

Absolutely no reason for Detroit to do that. They got this young kid Drummond at center that is pretty good.

I am more of a realist than an optimist, so I have pretty much completely ruled out Monroe, but I know that for some this is the time to fantasize, but my advice would be to not consider him an option unless they can find some team to take Gordon and give us nothing in return, thereby opening the cap space to sign Monroe to an offer at or close to the max. I dont think the Pistons would match that.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Look at his minutes. He isn't much of an offensive threat, he played less than 30 minutes per game. I'm not saying he's a top rebounder, because he isn't, so to already be not one of the best and then to play under 30 mpg doesn't help your cause.

He would be a walking double double guy if he played "starters" minutes. This year is a fluke year though, something happened in that locker room mid-season, don't know if it well ever come out, but it obviously effected Hibbert more than anyone else. Only reason I'd want him here is because I feel like we would be buying low and that he can play much better than he has this season.

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saying that he played under 30 minutes a game is a stretch because he averaged like 29.7 minutes a game. His minutes went up and his rebounding numbers went down. Maybe it was a fluke year. Maybe something is going on in the locker room. I read somewhere that there are rumors that Paul George slept with Roy Hibberts fiance. We may never know whats going.

For the production that he provides he is crazy overpaid. I just don't want people to trading for him just for the sake of making a move. Is he really going to help us?

One of the biggest reasons that everyone wants to get rid of Gordon is to free up cap space. If we make this trade we are just moving an unproductive SG for an unproductive, slow Center. I just want us to consider all of our options.

Hmm would they prefer to pay Stephenson 8-10 a year and have a better player and keep Hibbert for bait or Gordon more money and get a worse player and lose a trade asset. Hmmmmmm tough decision

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Look at his minutes. He isn't much of an offensive threat, he played less than 30 minutes per game. I'm not saying he's a top rebounder, because he isn't, so to already be not one of the best and then to play under 30 mpg doesn't help your cause.

He would be a walking double double guy if he played "starters" minutes. This year is a fluke year though, something happened in that locker room mid-season, don't know if it well ever come out, but it obviously effected Hibbert more than anyone else. Only reason I'd want him here is because I feel like we would be buying low and that he can play much better than he has this season.

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Yes, technically he played less than 30 minutes...but sorry, 29.7 minutes per game is still a helluva more like 30 than 20. He grabbed 6.6 rebounds. Standing 7'2 or however much, that's simply unacceptable. The career high (iirc playing 29.8 mpg) is 8.8 rebounds. "Starters' " minutes here is 35 mpg (which is how much davis played), do you really think he's a double double machine for 5 additional minutes? Then again...why has he never cracked 30 mpg? Because his conditioning sucks? Foul problems? I haven't followed much the pacers, not enough to tell, but it's mind-boggling. If he was good, why would the team not leave him more on the floor?

I don't know who else mentioned the "taking away the other team's best rebounder" but nope, i'm not buying it. It's the excuse i've been hearing about bargnani from italian fans (who are all, without exception, blind when it comes to italian players), i didn't buy it then and i'm not buying it now. "He always boxed out the other teams' best rebounders and bosh got all the rebounds he just jumped" "he's boxing out so well he can't get the rebound"...yeaaaahhhh...nope. The pacers are a good rebounding team, imo, despite having hibbert. Stephenson is an excellent rebounder (he's got his share of double and triple doubles), george is another excellent rebounder, hill is adequate and west is decent even if rebounding was never his forte and the numbers are declining. Hibbert is a very good offensive rebounder, but on the defensive board (which is exactly where we have most of our problems) he's just bad.

Again, if there are stats that prove me wrong i'd be happy to change my mind but right now...i don't see it. The 2012/13 hibbert would be better than gordon, no doubt. But what if you're getting the player who nets an astounding 6.6 rebs in 30 mins and who is so pathetic he got benched repeatedly by his own coach on key playoff games? No idea honestly

I still don't understand why people think we are going to trade our junk for something of value. It's not gonna happen.

They will have better offers on the table then an overpaid, injury prone, severely underperforming guard.

And if not, frankly, I think they are more likely to just keep hibbert then take on our trash with little value and sign a cheap guard in the offseason(or resign Stephenson) which lets be honest would probably perform just as well with how gordon has played.

Only way Gordon becomes valuable is if he does the following:

As part of the trade, he agrees he will opt out of the final year

Think of it as the reverse Chris Paul scenario. The Clippers made the trade contingent on Paul opting in. Let's say Gordon will agree to do the opposite - wouldn't that make him A LOT more valuable? And why would Gordon do this? Well, he knows he isnt exactly loved in NOLA and he is getting little to no exposure; Heck, he might not even be a starter this year.

If the Knicks offered Tyson for Gordon contingent on that, we would say yes and from Gordon's POV, I could see a scenario in which he believes so much in himself that he would think one healthy year in the spotlight could get him paid the following summer, either by NY or someone else.

I think this is in play for certain scenarios. If Indy loses Stephenson, it is a possibility and I think if Gordon's two choices are:

1. Stay with New Orleans for 2 years

or

2. Go prove yourself in your home state for 1 and play for a long term contract

Couldn't you see him choosing 2? Same with a Bulls scenario, etc. etc.

I say no. I don't think Hibbert is as terrible as he's looked, but he obviously is a flawed enough player that he can be taken completely out of a series and that's not something you spend $15 million per year on. If we had just an average PF instead of AD I'd think about it, but with Davis I think you want a stretch 4 and a defensive big to stay flexible, which means Hibbert is not in our price range.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Only way Gordon becomes valuable is if he does the following:

As part of the trade, he agrees he will opt out of the final year

Think of it as the reverse Chris Paul scenario. The Clippers made the trade contingent on Paul opting in. Let's say Gordon will agree to do the opposite - wouldn't that make him A LOT more valuable? And why would Gordon do this? Well, he knows he isnt exactly loved in NOLA and he is getting little to no exposure; Heck, he might not even be a starter this year.

If the Knicks offered Tyson for Gordon contingent on that, we would say yes and from Gordon's POV, I could see a scenario in which he believes so much in himself that he would think one healthy year in the spotlight could get him paid the following summer, either by NY or someone else.

I think this is in play for certain scenarios. If Indy loses Stephenson, it is a possibility and I think if Gordon's two choices are:

1. Stay with New Orleans for 2 years

or

2. Go prove yourself in your home state for 1 and play for a long term contract

Couldn't you see him choosing 2? Same with a Bulls scenario, etc. etc.

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With the bulls scenario i assume we'd be talking Gordon for Boozer?

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Originally Posted by Ludiculous

saying that he played under 30 minutes a game is a stretch because he averaged like 29.7 minutes a game. His minutes went up and his rebounding numbers went down. Maybe it was a fluke year. Maybe something is going on in the locker room. I read somewhere that there are rumors that Paul George slept with Roy Hibberts fiance. We may never know whats going.

For the production that he provides he is crazy overpaid. I just don't want people to trading for him just for the sake of making a move. Is he really going to help us?

One of the biggest reasons that everyone wants to get rid of Gordon is to free up cap space. If we make this trade we are just moving an unproductive SG for an unproductive, slow Center. I just want us to consider all of our options.

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Do you honestly expect something like that to happen (if it's true) and it not affect you? Would your work not drop in production if this were to happen to you? He is making a lot of money, he is overpaid, and it's the same contract as Gordon. But I don't think he is an unproductive center. A big body to put next to Davis who can defend is being underrated. I have no problems with your concerns over his salary though.

Kurgan,

Not trying to ignore you but I already said that I thought this current season was a fluke year for him given the obviously issues in the locker room. I didn't say 6.6 rpg was acceptable for a person his size. But if you would look at the 2-3 years prior to this one, and compute his averages based off of 35 or 36 minutes, YES he would average a double double.

Yeah, he is the only contract big enough that Bulls would consider if they lose out on Melo. And I would do that so fast.

Or a team like the Lakers could just take him into cap space if he agrees to the opt out because they would get a year out of him and still have their money for the summer of 2015

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Yeah, he is the only contract big enough that Bulls would consider if they lose out on Melo. And I would do that so fast.

Or a team like the Lakers could just take him into cap space if he agrees to the opt out because they would get a year out of him and still have their money for the summer of 2015

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That would be such an awesome scenario. I can't wait to see what Dell does this offseason.

I remember during the season a lot of hay was made about Monroe being an option. So that ship set sail huh? I would pass on Hibbert for all intents and porpoises. That guy is a shell of himself. We don't need more liabilities than we already have.

It's easy to say that all we need him to do is grab rebounds and defends, but can he even do that for 82-plus games?

I dont really see why anyone would want Gordon for a decent player unless they think he will bounce back healthwise to his old self...He is such a low impact player who puts up ok stats and then disappears when it matters most way too often. I dont really dont think he is much better if at all than say Jodie Meeks who you can get for a 1/4 of the price

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Originally Posted by NOLa.

It's easy to say that all we need him to do is grab rebounds and defends, but can he even do that for 82-plus games?

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He will until Pirre Jackson sleeps with his fiancé. But in all seriousness Hibbert is a wild card. I never was as high on him as others are, but I'm sure he could be productive again in the right environment.