Could Shabazz improve like Oladipo or Otto Porter?

Both porter and oladipo's freshmen years were not good but they worked hard and improved, bazz is a fierce competitor and hard worker so i dont see why not, it was his first year of challenging competition so i def see him getting way better, 19 points as a freshmen is sick. Ill do oladipo's sophmore year since he was so young.

Otto Porter freshmen: 10 points 7 rebounds 22% 3point%
Victor Oladipo sophmore: 11 points 5 rebounds 21% 3point%
Shabazz Muhamad: 18 points 5 rebounds 38% 3point%

if bazz didnt go into the draft this year i could see him having a 20-6 year next year while shooting around 45% from 3.

Also bazz plays in a highly constrintive offensive scheme in UCLA where its not easy to score but he does it. Also I think he is a much better defender than people think. Same for being a great athlete, i dont think he is elite, he isnt as good as oladipo but better than porter, if u go watch his draftexpress video he has a couple dunks where he absolutely posterizes people with authority and gets up plus his 7ft wingspan.

also like i said i think he can be a very good defender, he might not be quick enough for SGs but he did fine in college, but vs slower small forwards his strength and wingspan could cause havoc.

Both porter and oladipo's freshmen years were not good but they worked hard and improved, bazz is a fierce competitor and hard worker so i dont see why not, it was his first year of challenging competition so i def see him getting way better, 19 points as a freshmen is sick. Ill do oladipo's sophmore year since he was so young.

Otto Porter freshmen: 10 points 7 rebounds 22% 3point%
Victor Oladipo sophmore: 11 points 5 rebounds 21% 3point%
Shabazz Muhamad: 18 points 5 rebounds 38% 3point%

if bazz didnt go into the draft this year i could see him having a 20-6 year next year while shooting around 45% from 3.

Also bazz plays in a highly constrintive offensive scheme in UCLA where its not easy to score but he does it. Also I think he is a much better defender than people think. Same for being a great athlete, i dont think he is elite, he isnt as good as oladipo but better than porter, if u go watch his draftexpress video he has a couple dunks where he absolutely posterizes people with authority and gets up plus his 7ft wingspan.

also like i said i think he can be a very good defender, he might not be quick enough for SGs but he did fine in college, but vs slower small forwards his strength and wingspan could cause havoc.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...Muhammad-6270/

It's possible I suppose, but I wouldn't bet a whole lot of $$ on it. Decisions like that are why GMs make the big bucks, for better or worse.

I would take shabazz anyday

Anyone could get better. Hopefully some of that so-called competitiveness turns into him learning how to play defense and get his teammates involved a bit more. As it stands I can't imagine a pick that I'd be more disappointed in if we take him.

He's also older for a freshmen so he was more filled out compared to Porter. Porter was much more efficient as a freshmen than Shabazz and also younger right now. He was 18 at his freshmen year at Gtown while Shabazz was 20. Also Porter has more overall game while Shabazz is just as scorer.

Maybe. But one big issue with Shabazz is he's older than most freshmen. Shoot, he's 7 months older than Otto Porter... so is it really even fair to compare Shabazz's freshman season to Porter's freshman season?

It's kinda like calling McLemore a freshman when he's really a sophomore as well.

Progression isn't exactly something you can unerringly tie to age like an NBA 2K metric. A 20 year old rookie will progress this much. A 19 year old will progress even more. And a 12 year old? Ho boy, gold mine!

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Progression isn't exactly something you can unerringly tie to age like an NBA 2K metric. A 20 year old rookie will progress this much. A 19 year old will progress even more. And a 12 year old? Ho boy, gold mine!

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are u a priest?

but i agree, age does matter but only to a certain extent, if they werent ready to go they wouldnt have.

Age to improvement factor certainly isn't an exact science, but it's more measurable than a player's heart/will to improve. Teams will certainly take age into consideration because players are expected to reach their prime around 24 years old in the NBA. I remember seeing a graph about a year ago someone put together that factored in numerous players based on their age and statistics, and it basically backed that up across the board.

I think the bigger concern with Shabazz is that he's basically just a scorer and doesn't do much else... at least not to this point. But his age will certainly be brought up when scouts/coaches talk about him before the draft.

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Originally Posted by bradael

Age to improvement factor certainly isn't an exact science, but it's more measurable than a player's heart/will to improve. Teams will certainly take age into consideration because players are expected to reach their prime around 24 years old in the NBA. I remember seeing a graph about a year ago someone put together that factored in numerous players based on their age and statistics, and it basically backed that up across the board.

I think the bigger concern with Shabazz is that he's basically just a scorer and doesn't do much else... at least not to this point. But his age will certainly be brought up when scouts/coaches talk about him before the draft.

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That's the same reputation Rivers had going into the draft. He didn't do anything well other than scorer. And many people didn't believe his offense would translate.

The key is to find out if he's willing To do what it takes to improve the areas where he's weak in.

He's way too talented to overlook. You won't find very many 18-20 year old with that type of offensive abilities.

Team workouts will tell you a lot about him and his capacity to take directions.

Harrison Barnes had the same reputation too but he is doing pretty good ! He is clearly the superior athlete !
I like Bazz potential as a post-scorer. I can only see him improving as a passer and a defensive player.

I don't like to look at age when I'm talking potential. Age has more to do with physical development, but your basketball tools come with experience, and that's why I look at years played in the league.

bazz would be a good pick. at least he has the best name

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

I don't like to look at age when I'm talking potential. Age has more to do with physical development, but your basketball tools come with experience, and that's why I look at years played in the league.

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The chart I remember seeing took that into consideration as well, and improvement was clearly more dependent on age than experience. 25 year old rookies, for example, rarely showed improvement over their years in the NBA.

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Originally Posted by bradael

The chart I remember seeing took that into consideration as well, and improvement was clearly more dependent on age than experience. 25 year old rookies, for example, rarely showed improvement over their years in the NBA.

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I'm not talking about NBA rookies. Obviously, a 27 year old rookie like Gustavo Ayon doesn't have the same potential as a 19 year old rookie like AD. I'm talking about freshman/sophomores in college. Shabazz is an older freshman by a year or 2, but so is McLemore. Moreover, a guy like Lillard, who played 4 years in college, should be far ahead of a guy like Davis, and that's because of his experience more than his age. He was more prepared for the league because of how much basketball he had played up to that point. Davis obviously has a much higher ceiling, though, because of his limited experience. Same could be argued for Rivers IMO.

Bazz proved in his first college season he can score in many ways. It was his first year of playing against serious talent, and he showed some promise. If he was 23 and a senior id be way more concerned. He still has plenty of time to grow.

I mean, a team that finds itself struggling to score in clutch situations, you'd think a guy with clear evidence of scoring in such situations would be more a no brainer. Yeah, he's got some red flags, but the bulk of it sounds a lot like guys like Kobe, Melo, or Harden.

Yeah if Bazz is there with the 6th pick we need to snag him. Offense is a must for this team and he is the one player in this draft who could have an immediate impact scoring the ball. Sure Monty will hound him to play D and he will have to earn every minute. However, as far as scoring potential this guy can easily be a career 16 to 18 PPG type guy and that is evident just by watching him and how bad he wants to score. This is our guy, I'm telling you, this is our guy.

Is anyone else concerned by Shabazz's lack of assists? This team will not benefit from having a black hole on its offense (see: New York Knicks). I thought it was a major red flag on his character when he didn't celebrate his teammate's buzzer beater because he didn't get the last shot.

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Originally Posted by Pelican589

Is anyone else concerned by Shabazz's lack of assists? This team will not benefit from having a black hole on its offense (see: New York Knicks). I thought it was a major red flag on his character when he didn't celebrate his teammate's buzzer beater because he didn't get the last shot.

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yea that the down side with the kid. looked like he was even concerned that they just won the game.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I mean, a team that finds itself struggling to score in clutch situations, you'd think a guy with clear evidence of scoring in such situations would be more a no brainer. Yeah, he's got some red flags, but the bulk of it sounds a lot like guys like Kobe, Melo, or Harden.

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it will be hard for demps to pass on bazz

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Originally Posted by flyPelican

it will be hard for demps to pass on bazz

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The small forward position can easily be addressed in FA with guys like Brewer or Korver if we don't bring back Aminu. If we can't get Porter, Burke, Oladipo, or even McLemore, I'd rather Alex Len. I hope Demps realizes that Shabazz is going to be nothing more than Carmelo Anthony, the type of player that'll never win a championship.

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Originally Posted by Pelican589

The small forward position can easily be addressed in FA with guys like Brewer or Korver if we don't bring back Aminu. If we can't get Porter, Burke, Oladipo, or even McLemore, I'd rather Alex Len. I hope Demps realizes that Shabazz is going to be nothing more than Carmelo Anthony, the type of player that'll never lead a team to a championship.

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I agree. As the leader of a team, Melo will only fail. But as the 2nd best? Where he can only concentrate on what he's elite at? He can absolutely win a title.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I agree. As the leader of a team, Melo will only fail. But as the 2nd best? Where he can only concentrate on what he's elite at? He can absolutely win a title.

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So who Melo would have to play with? I don't think there is five players in the league better than him. And two of them play his position. He's screwed!

Don't have to necessarily be better than him. But good enough to be a leader. Someone like Chauncy Billups in his prime could do that.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Don't have to necessarily be better than him. But good enough to be a leader. Someone like Chauncy Billups in his prime could do that.

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Ok so he the best player but not the leader! Gotcha! Seems like the plan we should be using with EG.

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Originally Posted by GESWhoseBack

Ok so he the best player but not the leader! Gotcha! Seems like the plan we should be using with EG.

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Semantics, but he's not a leader. Just not his game to have others follow and lean on him. Too single minded in his approach and doesn't really inspire any kind of confidence.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Semantics, but he's not a leader. Just not his game to have others follow and lean on him. Too single minded in his approach and doesn't really inspire any kind of confidence.

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No I'm with you. Just can't think of any examples this. The only examples, it could be argued who the best player and leader were and if they were indeed the same player. Celtics( Pierce, KG ), 1st spurs title ( Duncan, Robinson ), Pistons ( Toss up really, Billups, Rasheed, Rip??) can you think of any?

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

I agree. As the leader of a team, Melo will only fail. But as the 2nd best? Where he can only concentrate on what he's elite at? He can absolutely win a title.

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In theory you are right, but you won't see Carmelo take a backseat unless it is a last ditch effort to get a ring as a 6th man. More to my point though, once the ball goes in Melo's hands, it doesn't come out. You need good ball movement to win in this league and Shabazz would just be another offensive stopper. Sure, it'll be fun when he goes on his hot streaks, but when he goes cold he'll strangle the whole team's production (see: New York Knicks).

Shabazz will be an all star one day, but he will not win.

Interesting how you assume that he'll be a literal clone of Melo, despite...not being a clone of Melo. He'll be exactly as much of an offensive stopper. He'll be precisely the same kind of guy that'll strangle the team's production despite that not being what he did at UCLA.


And the theory is applicable because here, Shabazz wouldn't be our franchise cornerstone. That position is already filled. The team wouldn't be leaning on Shabazz to carry us. They wouldn't be in the position where they must inextricably give him the rock because there aren't any other real options.

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Originally Posted by Pelican589

Is anyone else concerned by Shabazz's lack of assists? This team will not benefit from having a black hole on its offense (see: New York Knicks). I thought it was a major red flag on his character when he didn't celebrate his teammate's buzzer beater because he didn't get the last shot.

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It's my biggest worry with him. When I watched him play, he routinely drew multiple defenders and failed to pass it out to the open man. Hopefully it's more of a mindset thing and less about an inability to see the entire court clearly.

Also, Bazz has below-average handles going right, which usually leads to him predictably going back left and subsequently taking a pretty poor shot.

All these red flags about his selfishness, lack of effort, etc don't concern me as much. Those are disciplinary issues that can be mended with the right coach and a professional atmosphere.

I think Bazz would be an underrated pick at 6 granted a specific group of players are off the board.

I feel the same way about Shabazz as I did with Austin Rivers. Dude came out of High School as the #1 or 2 prospect by most people. Potential is there and he has the ability to easily be the best player in this draft. I, as a pelicans fan, wouldn't want us to touch another project of that magnitude, but to discount the guy is insanity.

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Originally Posted by Pelican589

Is anyone else concerned by Shabazz's lack of assists? This team will not benefit from having a black hole on its offense (see: New York Knicks). I thought it was a major red flag on his character when he didn't celebrate his teammate's buzzer beater because he didn't get the last shot.

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not really because he didnt have that much talent around him, if u were him and u knew the scorer u are would u keep it and try to make the play for ur team or pass it to a scrub who has little chance. just my opinion

Here's the thing - EG is already a guy with questionable character/leadership/desire issues. Can we support two of those guys potentially in the starting lineup? Bazz has had quite a few real character concerns throughout his career so far, and was seen by some as a primadonna. I'm sure his character can be improved by a strong coaching staff and locker room - but I don't think that EG is the leader that will help break his bad habits.

I don't want him, but am more open to drafting him if we trade EG.

Dude is a black hole on offense, and to busy to be concerned with defense. It his shot isn't falling he is worthless, and he doesn't even score the ball well. If he is there and we take him...so be it, but I hope he goes to the bobcats/hornets.

Shabazz has the potential to be similar to Glenn Robinson, but I'm scared he'll be more like Michael Beasley.

Speaking of GR; i forgot his son is likely to enter the next draft. That class will be staaaaacked.