What's the problem with building slowly?

A lot of people seem to want instant success. Like we won the lottery and got AD so now we should be a title contender in a year or two. I know people want a winning team and a full arena, but honestly the only way I see us being a championship contender and not just a playoff team, is by lucking out in the lottery again once in the next two years. A lot of people seem to hate the idea of the Pels being in a spot to luck out in the lottery again after next year. I don't, considering how good its going to be. And we don't need to be bottom three and get a Wiggins or Randle, but if we got Porter in this lottery and Smart in the next I think we'd be a real contender in 4-5 year. Or drafting Burke and getting one of the talented SFs next draft. Once again, I won't be satisfied until this team wins a ring. The 6th to 8th seed in the playoffs doesn't mean anything to me. And others think we can aquire superstars through unrealistic trade ideas.

Really, I think this feeling for instant success from fans is more due to the fact that we don't want to see Monty or Dell gone and they don't think Benson will be patient and wait long enough to build a good young team. No 2k trades are going to happen to net us a superstar to pair with AD so the only logical thing seems to be patient. Am I alone here?

We've been bad for 2 years now. We have a foundation set up for success in the near future. With a great off season including the landing of a prime free agent, yes, a big name player will sign with New Orleans if he's getting paid, and a top 5 draft pick, there is no reason why we shouldn't compete for a bottom tier playoff seed. In my opinion, there is no reason to wait any longer to win. We have roughly 18 million to spend so we can finally fill out our bench with decent nba caliber role players and veterans that we won't have to complain about each game. The future is bright, we are on the rise. Get on board.

Building smartly does not equate to building slowly. Just how many straight years does a team need to be in the lottery? 2 lotto picks last year plus yet another this year is plenty enough. Losing and hoping lotto picks all pan out is a foolish route to take. Everybody is not going to be OKC, who still have yet to win a title and might very well not win another playoff game just because ONE player is out.

This is also a business meant to make money. Turning a profit in the NBA is difficult as it is and constantly losing doesn't help make the franchise desirable for free agents or coaching stability. You already see the toll it put on Monty last year and I'm afraid another year of that will make him unravel. Nobody wants to lose. It's not fun.

We are on the rise, I agree with that part. And I'm fully on board. But a big name signing here right now I kinda doubt.

I had a big long discussion with someone about this recently. He was cut from the "winning is everything "model. And I was trying to explain the slow build idea to him. After 3 long hours he still couldn't understand how losing was ok.. he felt that in order to establish a winning culture is players and coaches who only wants to win amd eeven brought up today's weak society who applualds and celebrates 3rd place and 2nd place by teaching kids that winning isn't everything.

Basically he was saying that not winning and hoping and preparing for better days was weak and pathetic. I tried to explain the business aspect to him of being a small market basketball team and needing to build contenders by having young talent that u can build with.


Basically ..he referred to the Pelicans as the New Charlotte Bobcats and said AD will jet when he really wants to win and said that's why most stars do because we tell them early in the NBA days that losing is "ok" because we are young and need more better players.

He said the Pelicans may never win a championship with our current coaching staff and mindset. He said we meed to be winners and stop being soft and kickass

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

I had a big long discussion with someone about this recently. He was cut from the "winning is everything "model. And I was trying to explain the slow build idea to him. After 3 long hours he still couldn't understand how losing was ok.. he felt that in order to establish a winning culture is players and coaches who only wants to win amd eeven brought up today's weak society who applualds and celebrates 3rd place and 2nd place by teaching kids that winning isn't everything.

Basically he was saying that not winning and hoping and preparing for better days was weak and pathetic. I tried to explain the business aspect to him of being a small market basketball team and needing to build contenders by having young talent that u can build with.


Basically ..he referred to the Pelicans as the New Charlotte Bobcats and said AD will jet when he really wants to win and said that's why most stars do because we tell them early in the NBA days that losing is "ok" because we are young and need more better players.

He said the Pelicans may never win a championship with our current coaching staff and mindset. He said we meed to be winners and stop being soft and kickass

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Interesting point of view. Get physical. Can't beat em bully them, That is what the Chicago Bulls are doing. Look at the Pistons back in the day. Chuck Daly coached them like renegades and Pistons won.

Lucking out in the draft is a huge gamble. For every OKC there has been a SAC, CHA, WASH and before Paul, LAC. These teams tried to build through lottery picks and have failed miserably. Eventually the core you do have will leave. You can't keep cycling 19-21 year olds who haven't been in the game for so long. You consider us contenders in 4-5 years, but Anderson, Lopez, Gordon, and Davis all run out of contracts by then. No doubt we will manage to retain Davis because of his rookie contract, but we lose important pieces. Sooner or later you have to bring in talent. We have already done the rebuilding via draft for two years now. Its time to bring in talent now to complement our young core.

There is nothing wrong with building slowly and nothing inherently right with it either.

What you do see is also a large amount of unrealistic expectations based on a shallow understanding of the business, denial, and impatience.

Call me crazy, but I think the key to our rebuild is drafting Burke this year. He could be our PG for a long time. He can score, shoot the 3, slash, pass, basically he can do everything you want your PG to do. If Monty could develop his defense to a respectable level, we could have an All Star at PG and PF in the near future. Having a Burke/Gordon back court wouldn't be ideal size wise, but they both could handle the ball and they both can hit 3 at a good clip. This would allow Rivers to become the 6th man/combo guard which I think is his best chance at being a successful NBA player and if Rivers develops well it would give us a solid 3 man rotation at guard. Plus they all could handle the ball and play the point if needed.

At a recent meeting with the ticket reps, Tom Benson discussed with them ways to sell tickets. Lots of people had pretty nice ideas but Tom Benson banged on the desk, everyone went silent. He said "I know how we sell tickets, win some damn games!"

This is a true story. I don't think we're in for the slow build.

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Originally Posted by iNolaNightmare

At a recent meeting with the ticket reps, Tom Benson discussed with them ways to sell tickets. Lots of people had pretty nice ideas but Tom Benson banged on the desk, everyone went silent. He said "I know how we sell tickets, win some damn games!"

This is a true story. I don't think we're in for the slow build.

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If that is true, then I love it! Nice to the Old Man still has the fire in the belly, and that he wants the Pels to succeed as much as the Saints. I know part of his motivation is making money, but I like that he's taking a hands on approach.

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Originally Posted by Adam the Legend

If that is true, then I love it! Nice to the Old Man still has the fire in the belly, and that he wants the Pels to succeed as much as the Saints. I know part of his motivation is making money, but I like that he's taking a hands on approach.

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But it's also reactionary and foolish. You can't just MAKE these things happen in the NBA you have to mold it. I don't want one or two good years of Pelicans basketball, I want a foundation of winning.

Over reacting and overspending got us in the mess that we JUST got out of financially as the Hornets. I don't want to be paying for Iggy and Bledsoe for 8 years or some mess.

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze

But it's also reactionary and foolish. You can't just MAKE these things happen in the NBA you have to mold it. I don't want one or two good years of Pelicans basketball, I want a foundation of winning.

Over reacting and overspending got us in the mess that we JUST got out of financially as the Hornets. I don't want to be paying for Iggy and Bledsoe for 8 years or some mess.

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4 years..

If we draft Burke, Iggy is the perfect compliment in my opinion. A lineup of
Burke/Vasquez/Rivers
Gordon/Rivers
Iggy/Miller
Davis/Anderson/Smith
Lopez/Davis/Smith
Would give us a nice blend of offense and defense plus we'd still have some $$$ under the cap to add another bench option.

IMO its Burke or bust. Rivers would be our Manu Ginobli/Jamal Crawford with defense if he improves. Monty HAS TO STEP UP HIS GAME TOO. Better coachingand athletic defenders and rebounded with a knack to be great and hustle will indeed make us a respected franchise.

If Monty fail this year ...he is gone bye bye. Time for us to get tough and start winning some damn games. Our core needs to know that winning is important. IMO there are only two guys on the team with that approach right now.


VASQUEZ AND JASON SMITH.

It's definitely not Burke or bust.

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Building slowly gives you much more leeway for mistakes. That's why it's so much more important in a rebuild. People are against trading Gordon. If we hitch our wagon to that guy in he continue to do with he does(we all know what that is) or leaves where are we?

If we trade him for a draft pick we have the luxury of having control of another guys rights for realistically 8-10 years. That would give us two this year and likely another high pick next year. That would be four guys with 6-10 years where we control their rights. That's how you build. With large windows for success and room for deviations. No rebuild strategy is full proof if it was every team would go 41-41. It will require our scouts and Demps to have a eye for talent. If they can't they aren't the right people for this team.

I don't think it's Burke or bust I really like Oladipo as well. But I think Trey is the best player in the whole draft by a decent margin.

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Originally Posted by iNolaNightmare

At a recent meeting with the ticket reps, Tom Benson discussed with them ways to sell tickets. Lots of people had pretty nice ideas but Tom Benson banged on the desk, everyone went silent. He said "I know how we sell tickets, win some damn games!"

This is a true story. I don't think we're in for the slow build.

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He(Benson) did say at the presser last year when he bought the team that he wanted to win now. He(Benson) sure is not getting any younger. I think drafting Burke could be the next CP3.

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Originally Posted by Kumar

Lucking out in the draft is a huge gamble. For every OKC there has been a SAC, CHA, WASH and before Paul, LAC. These teams tried to build through lottery picks and have failed miserably. Eventually the core you do have will leave. You can't keep cycling 19-21 year olds who haven't been in the game for so long. You consider us contenders in 4-5 years, but Anderson, Lopez, Gordon, and Davis all run out of contracts by then. No doubt we will manage to retain Davis because of his rookie contract, but we lose important pieces. Sooner or later you have to bring in talent. We have already done the rebuilding via draft for two years now. Its time to bring in talent now to complement our young core.

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So is free agency which is twice the gamble because you are committed to that player financially. Memphis missed on Thabeet big time. Not even feeling the affects from a huge bust.

Again there's no science in draftimg , but it gives you flexibility. The Cavs, Thunder, Warriors all built mostly through the draft. All three are in much better shape because of it.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

So is free agency which is twice the gamble because you are committed to that player financially. Memphis missed on Thabeet big time. Not even feeling the affects from a huge bust.

Again there's no science in draftimg , but it gives you flexibility. The Cavs, Thunder, Warriors all built mostly through the draft. All three are in much better shape because of it.

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I get what you are saying. The easiest way for a small market team to become a championship caliber team is to build through the draft. That's how OKC did it, and that's how the Spurs did it. Those are the only two small market teams that have had any success lately. Problem is, which lottery team do you expect to take Gordon? Plus they would have to send back a large amount of salary unless they are also under the cap, so they would have to be a lottery team with a huge expiring, huge cap space, or a couple of small expirings plus some young guys on rookie contracts. Can u think of a realistic trade for Gordon where we get back basically just a 1st round pick next year?

I'd use our cap on Iggy. He'd be the veteran presence that every young team needs, plus he's still a great defender and is a do it all glue guy on offense.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

So is free agency which is twice the gamble because you are committed to that player financially. Memphis missed on Thabeet big time. Not even feeling the affects from a huge bust.

Again there's no science in draftimg , but it gives you flexibility. The Cavs, Thunder, Warriors all built mostly through the draft. All three are in much better shape because of it.

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This is true. However its good to have a coach that install a winning mindset on young guys early.Playing for high draft picks can create unpassionate players in the long run.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I don't think it's Burke or bust I really like Oladipo as well. But I think Trey is the best player in the whole draft by a decent margin.

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I say its Burke or Bust because I believe grabbing the best player in the draft will help us to finally start our foundation of winning. Oladipo is a good player...but its more of a unsure thing at his offensive game. To gamble on him to play a position of 2 or even 3 is a huge risk. If we desperately need scoring and we are uunsure about Eric Gordon being here.. then why put ourselves in a position for a unsure thing at conventional postion where scoring is a must?(SG) Trey Burke is a fantastic player where his game has shown to be something that will already provide something that we need at the movement. PnR, passing, scoring, defense potential, awareness, winning mentality, and leadership are things he ALREADY SHOWS. The kid will only get better.


We need to start playing SERIOUS. Hell we have to for Monty job security sake.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

This is true. However its good to have a coach that install a winning mindset on young guys early.Playing for high draft picks can create unpassionate players in the long run.

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I don't think Monty ok with losing but you can only control so much.

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Originally Posted by GESWhoseBack

I don't think Monty ok with losing but you can only control so much.

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In a league where fans call for coach's heads for losing, I wouldn't be ok with losing either

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Originally Posted by LoCo89

In a league where fans call for coach's heads for losing, I wouldn't be ok with losing either

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Exactly, people are already calling for his head and he's literally got next to nothing in terms of talent. Rolo or Vasquez in the running for your third best player?

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Originally Posted by LoCo89

In a league where fans call for coach's heads for losing, I wouldn't be ok with losing either

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But who could win with this team? Monty cost us a few victories i will admit that but we would still be a lottery team just much further away from an impact player.

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Originally Posted by GESWhoseBack

But who could win with this team? Monty cost us a few victories i will admit that but we would still be a lottery team just much further away from an impact player.

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Oh I don't disagree with you at all. One bad decision from Monty and you have all the great basketball minds on this board calling for a new coach. People forget he has to adjust to not having a top 5 player and having mediocre talent

Everybody wants to win. I understand that a team can hurt its long term prospects by trying to do too much too soon and bringing in high priced free agents or veterans in a trade. If its the wrong guy, then they used cap space and limited future flexibility for a guy who wont help the team win. So they may never get over the top because they have some marginal vets eating up the cap space they needed to add the last few pieces to the puzzle.

But I also think a franchise can hurt itself by being too cautious and too willing to accept losing while its players (allegedly) mature. Winning and losing in the NBA is a lot about character and effort. Winning creates winning attitudes. Losing for too long will create losing attitudes. Young promising players never get to see how a team of real professional winners takes care of business - so they keep losing -- look at Sacto, Portland, soon maybe Cleveland -- despite having pretty good talent.

I see the Hornets right at the crossroads. I think they should have been a little better W/L this year. They lost games because guys played lax defense. With the talent on board this team should not have been one of the league worst on defense. I don't think they have to contend next year, but unless they get hit by a rash of bad injuries, I think they have to be fighting for a .500 record come March, or the rebuilding project is not working.

If they have to use some cap space or trade a young guy to bring in some veteran talent and leadership, I am with that. That to me is a lot better than playing for a third consecutive top 5 lottery ticket. If you can do that and go to 40 wins next year, you still have room for improvement after that because AD, this year's pick, Rivers, and the other youngish players will still have a lot of room to improve.

Going back to the original question, I have been thinking of this off and on all day. The question kept coming back to, "What is the point of rebuilding?" The only answer I can come up with at first is that your looking for a new core. Then my next question is "What do you do when you have your new core?"

Well this is where it gets interesting. You could continue to add young players and hope they pan out. But ultimately, that's hit or miss. Some guys pan out and some guys don't.

OR you could just start adding free agents. Quick fix guys. trying to make a splash. But you may start overpaying guys, (Peja) in order to get to the playoffs or something to that effect.

But I realized that the real answer to what's the point of rebuilding isn't what I was thinking. Its not a question of core. You can draft a young core of marginal players and be marginal going forward. The real answer to the point of rebuilding, is obtain a franchise player and to be always rebuilding. If we have learned anything from Belicheck, it is once you have your franchise player (Brady) you are always rebuilding. Great players will get average (Welker) to great talent (Moss) to excel. The Patriots are great at this (its not lost that it hasn't worked recently) and are a threat each and every year. They amass many talented players, not just one or two homerun hitters. They draft well and keep cycling in and out talent. Along the way they will draft very, very good players (Gronk) to add to their great mix. The closest team to do that in the NBA is the Spurs. You have your franchise players and you just shift in and out guys. Always staying a threat.

The Pelicans have their franchise player in Davis. Now around him we have players that could be good pieces on which to build. But I think our rebuilding should always be going on. Every year we should be swapping out 5 guys for 5 new guys. Add a young guy hear and veteran there. And over time that 5 will turn to 4 and then to 3. Then you have a great team. I think we should smartly add ONE big name free agent. Keep EG for one more year. Draft Burke and fill in the roster with a combo of cheap free agent skill players and D-leaguers and traded for players. Next season, we'll see.

The key is to know when enough is enough. We obviously don't want the take the Cavs, Wiz, Cats, or Kings route in rebuilding. It's OK to want some young talented players via the draft to build around. But you also don't want to be there longer than you NEED to be. It's just not good business and it's not a good way to develop these kids you draft.

At some point, we'll have to move away from the lottery even if we don't feel like we have the ideal pieces to "contend." We're going to have to find other means of finding talent which Demps is talented at finding. We'd ideally want to make some kind of leap in year 3 which will be approaching this upcoming season.

This is why this upcoming draft will really be important. We can't afford a bust. We need to hit on ANY PLAYER who can and will help the team without all the unrealistic projections.

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Originally Posted by Big Fan

Everybody wants to win. I understand that a team can hurt its long term prospects by trying to do too much too soon and bringing in high priced free agents or veterans in a trade. If its the wrong guy, then they used cap space and limited future flexibility for a guy who wont help the team win. So they may never get over the top because they have some marginal vets eating up the cap space they needed to add the last few pieces to the puzzle.

But I also think a franchise can hurt itself by being too cautious and too willing to accept losing while its players (allegedly) mature. Winning and losing in the NBA is a lot about character and effort. Winning creates winning attitudes. Losing for too long will create losing attitudes. Young promising players never get to see how a team of real professional winners takes care of business - so they keep losing -- look at Sacto, Portland, soon maybe Cleveland -- despite having pretty good talent.

I see the Hornets right at the crossroads. I think they should have been a little better W/L this year. They lost games because guys played lax defense. With the talent on board this team should not have been one of the league worst on defense. I don't think they have to contend next year, but unless they get hit by a rash of bad injuries, I think they have to be fighting for a .500 record come March, or the rebuilding project is not working.

If they have to use some cap space or trade a young guy to bring in some veteran talent and leadership, I am with that. That to me is a lot better than playing for a third consecutive top 5 lottery ticket. If you can do that and go to 40 wins next year, you still have room for improvement after that because AD, this year's pick, Rivers, and the other youngish players will still have a lot of room to improve.

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This is exactly what im saying. Whether fans know it or not, we are in a very critcal time right now. Its make or break or the franchise. We have to kill **** this offseason and start playing forreal now! Screw next draft, lets start bringing out the plan that we been playing. Everything will fall in place as long as we play to WIN. (Better effort on both sides of the floor, better coaching, playing through injuries that are minor, etc.)

No more excuses. Im sick of it. Lets get resepect back into our franchise and fans attendance. And we better with a name like the Pelicans.



I really wish Tom Thibadoux was our coach :(

Can somebody explain the extreme sense of urgency with this team? Who are the players that we can't afford to lose?

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

We're going to have to find other means of finding talent which Demps is talented at finding.

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And we do not need a high pick every year. There were some really great players that came outside of the lottery. The Spurs and Pacers are really good at finding those types. I know the name Bower makes some people's butt itch, but if he drafted Collison and Thornton (eta and D West), then those were some good picks outside the lottery. It can be had. And I don't believe we need a team full of superstars. Just look at how the Grizz are playing, and do yall remember Detroit's championship run?

I just looked up Marc Gasol and see that he was drafted 48th overall by the Lakers. Need I say more?

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Can somebody explain the extreme sense of urgency with this team? Who are the players that we can't afford to lose?

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I think Benson plans on winning a title before he dies from boogyin too hard.

I just think giving the rebuild one more year past this one will greatly benefit this team. Most say it will take AD 2-3 years and Rivers 3-4 to develope, so why not pick up more extremely talented players in a way we can keep them longer and cheaper? 3-4 years from now we can afford our core and the right players to put around them. I'm not talking about being in the lottery 3-4 years, just being in the lottery one more year after this and be competeing for a ring in 3-4 years. Patience seems key to me if we want to be above average. We'll obviously have a better record next year, so we won't be in the bottom five next seanson. We will have made progress while setting ourselves up to grab one more young stud and letting our superstar progress one more year before we start challenging for the playoffs. Then I feel we'll have a roster that can move up in the playoff standing every season instead of just hanging out in the 5th-8th spot like some teams. In three to four years I could see the Pelicans, Rockets, Thunder, and Warriors being the top four in the west. Then we'd actually be a title contender instead of a playoff team. That's what I want.

In the NBA, you usually get a max of 4 years to rebuild before the coach and gm are wished well on their future endeavors.

Year 1: You're newly bad. You were either a playoff team the prior year or a borderline playoff team. This bad year gets youa high pick in the lottery. You sell everything you can sell on your roster. If the coach has been there a long time, he will be canned either mid year or at the end of the season, but in some cases, a new coach is brought in to fully oversee the start of badness.

Year 2: You are very young and very bad. You have a high draft pick that you are probably giving way too many minutes too, because your roster is a few borderline veterans and a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players. Everything that goes wrong is excused, because you have a lot of "potential" (whether you have potential or not). Plus, guys that arent used to so many minutes are playing much longer than they ever have, so usually injuries are an issue as well. Hoepfully, you have a slightly better record than year 1, so while you get another pretty high lottery pick, hopefully it is only higher then the prior year do to the ping pong balls and not your record.

Year 3: The excuses you had in year 2 do not apply. You must show significant improvement in all aspects of the game. People will start to talk about that high pick from 2 drafst ago..hopefgully its because he is a future all star and not a bust. You must finish at least .500 and be sniffing at the playoffs (or make the playoffs if you are in the Eastern Conference). If you do not, or in the cases of more petulant owners you miss the playoffs, coach will get fired.

Year 4: This is it. Playoffs or bust. If it looks like this is a non playoff year, then the cycle repeats, assets or traded and sold, coach and gm is canned, and the season is tanked, and year 4 becomes year 1 again.

This franchise has always seemed to come through the cycle well. They came in as a smelly expansion team, drafted Alonso and LJ and became a regular playoff team, even with having to turn Mourning into a tradeable assest and get stuff for him. Then, then stank for a few years, drafted Baron Davis and signed some other guys and became good again. That group fizzled out, we dumped everyone, got stinky again for a few years, drafted CP3 and did some other smart things roster wise and again we were a playoff team. CP3 wants to leave, everyone else is old and expensive, roster is blown up and we stink again. Now, we are coming off of year 2.

This coming season, we need to get to at least .500. Benson is not a petulant owner, so unless this year is a total disaster, Monty and Dell will be around for at least 2 more years, but in order for this to be a successful rebuild, this is the year for significant improvement. It's hard to make the playoffs in the west when you are sniffing .500, so the postseason is not a must, but they do need to in my opinion get to the 38-40 win range at least.

The good news: each time this team has gone through this, they have been successful. That's more than a lot of other franchises can say.

I just feel that we have a young nucleus and we have to be patient and let it grow. I hate it when people come up with this video game trades idea and completely overhaul the roster without thinking about team chemistry and if these players actually would fit Monty's system long term. Just be patient and let it build. All I expect from this offseason is to get faster at PG (like what Monty and Dell said) and a couple of character veterans to teach the young players how handle in game pressure situations and the grind of a long season/postseason.