Question for debate: Gordon or Monty?

In responding to another thread regarding fantasy trading of Eric Gordon, that made me think of an interesting topic to debate here.

Who remains a Pelican longer: Eric Gordon or Monty Williams?

From the scuttlebutt, it looks like the Pels would like to be rid of EG, but with that contract and those knees, that looks like a long shot. Demps has somehow magically peddled away bad deals in the past to some foolish teams, but in the case of EG, I fear we may be stuck with him.

Now, for the record, I love Monty and would love to keep him, but this is the NBA. Benson has always given his Saints coaches a long time before he dispenses of them. (He has only fired 2 coaches in his tenure: He kept Ditka after two 6-10 years and only fired him after 3-13 and let Haslett fire off one mediocre .500 year after another before disposing of him after 3-13) NBA coaches however have a shorter shelf life, and in the Association, there are only so many 20ish win seasons that the GM will accept before he feels compelled to change things, regardless of the reason for said bad season.

So, if the Pels don't at least sniff the postseason next year, I can see Demps saying to Benson/Loomis: we all love Monty, but this is not the NFL. In this league if you go 3 seasons without being in playoff contention, you make a change.

So, who is a Pelican longer: Monty or Gordon?

Monty

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e-XYkVDlCF...526-053012.jpg

FYI, he just left CC's in old metairie :)

The one who is there for 82 games

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Originally Posted by cki3915

From the scuttlebutt, it looks like the Pels would like to be rid of EG,

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By "scuttlebutt," I assume you mean comments made by Pelicans fans on message boards?

I don't know if the Pels would like to be rid of EG. I think they would like to improve their roster by any means necessary.

That being said, I think Monty will be here longer.

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

The one who is there for 82 games

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Winner winner.

There was that news report/rumor I saw somewhere that we'd shop Gordon around. Hopefully his healthy finish to the season raises his value a bit. But, bottom line, either we are all in on Gordon and need to reaffirm that to him and to us fans, or we need to move him ASAP. Being non-committal does no one any good. He could come to resent us for it, teammate morale might drop seeing us be shaky with our own players, and his trade value stands to depreciate regardless.

I do not have a link, but i seem to remember Loomis or Demps or someone from the FO being quoted as saying they would listen to trade offers for EG if any came their way. You do not make tose kinds of statements about players you want to keep.

Monty

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

There was that news report/rumor I saw somewhere that we'd shop Gordon around. Hopefully his healthy finish to the season raises his value a bit. But, bottom line, either we are all in on Gordon and need to reaffirm that to him and to us fans, or we need to move him ASAP. Being non-committal does no one any good. He could come to resent us for it, teammate morale might drop seeing us be shaky with our own players, and his trade value stands to depreciate regardless.

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Dell said in an interview that they'd listen to offers for Gordon and nothing is guaranteed roster wise. I guess that means they aren't actively shopping him but they'll listen.

I personally didn't like the comment unless they are truely and actively looking to trade. That's not something you say out loud otherwise.

This shouldn't even be a debate much less an interesting one.

Monty will be here long after Gordon is gone. Monty and Dell's job security will not even be questioned (except by fans) until Davis is due to be resigned. Then the team will be evaluated accordingly.

IMO

Monty

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Dell said in an interview that they'd listen to offers for Gordon and nothing is guaranteed roster wise. I guess that means they aren't actively shopping him but they'll listen.

I personally didn't like the comment unless they are truely and actively looking to trade. That's not something you say out loud otherwise.

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Especially about a guy who seems to be easily offended like Gordon.

They're looking to trade him imo. The only comments that should be made regarding the guy agreed to give the max to is "untouchable" and that's definitely not the vibe we sense from the staff. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Nola Hornet

They're looking to trade him imo. The only comments that should be made regarding the guy agreed to give the max to is "untouchable" and that's definitely not the vibe we sense from the staff. It is what it is.

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I thought the whole situation seemed weird. It seems like we were forced to give Gordon that deal. It doesn't feel like he earned it.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I thought the whole situation seemed weird. It seems like we were forced to give Gordon that deal. It doesn't feel like he earned it.

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I don't know if they were forced to, but I think 2 forces were in play:

1. When healthy, he is one of the best shooting guards in the league. If he can stay off the injured list and stay focused, he can really help this team. It's hard to let that kind of talent walk away.

2. The FO doesn't want to come across to ther players that they will not give out big contracts. This was the third high profile guy to come up for renewal on the Demps watch, and the first 2 (CP3 and DWest) walked. I think they didn't wanna make the impression that the Pelicans will not pay their people. (yes i know that money was not the issue with CP3 and DWest).

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Originally Posted by cki3915

I don't know if they were forced to, but I think 2 forces were in play:

1. When healthy, he is one of the best shooting guards in the league. If he can stay off the injured list and stay focused, he can really help this team. It's hard to let that kind of talent walk away.

2. The FO doesn't want to come across to ther players that they will not give out big contracts. This was the third high profile guy to come up for renewal on the Demps watch, and the first 2 (CP3 and DWest) walked. I think they didn't wanna make the impression that the Pelicans will not pay their people. (yes i know that money was not the issue with CP3 and DWest).

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I don't really buy that. If we would have signed Gordon out right instead of matching PHX deal this would have merit. It's hard to believe that Demps truly believed EJ was worth a max deal.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

He could come to resent us for it, teammate morale might drop seeing us be shaky with our own players, and his trade value stands to depreciate regardless.

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If, and I know it's a big if, Gordon plays every game next season leading up to the All-Star break at his previous high level, I don't see why his trade value wouldn't be considerably higher than it is now. Please explain why you think "his trade value stands to depreciate regardless".

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

It's hard to believe that Demps truly believed EJ was worth a max deal.

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He may not have. But if another GM believes he is? Well then it wouldn't matter, would it?

I doubt that Dell doubts his ability to move Gordon for AT LEAST SOMETHING.

Letting Gordon walk would have been the George Shinn way of doing things. This ownership/management has the resources, savvy and patience to find talent even if they must overpay at times and in ways that aren't detrimental to the team's flexibility.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Mojo

He may not have. But if another GM believes he is? Well then it wouldn't matter, would it?

I doubt that Dell doubts his ability to move Gordon for AT LEAST SOMETHING.

Letting Gordon walk would have been the George Shinn way of doing things. This ownership/management has the resources, savvy and patience to find talent even if they must overpay at times and in ways that aren't detrimental to the team's flexibility.

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Oh I understand why Demps matched the offer sheet. However that doesn't change my point. Demps didn't think Gordon was worth the max.

There was a window after we tried to get a deal done with Gordon where we could have traded him. I felt that we should have then. A season later there's no reason to think Gordon stock is higher now and he has a max deal to boot.

Eric Gordon may have played his last game in NO

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Originally Posted by Tomdda

If, and I know it's a big if, Gordon plays every game next season leading up to the All-Star break at his previous high level, I don't see why his trade value wouldn't be considerably higher than it is now. Please explain why you think "his trade value stands to depreciate regardless".

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From the Pelicans standpoint, if he's playing well and helping put this team into playoff position there is no reason to trade him. I highly doubt he would want to leave at that point either since he has never experienced being on a winning, playoff caliber NBA team with nothing but upside before.

Monty should be here much longer than Gordon. Not even close IMO.

Imo Monty will, no doubt, stay longer than Gordon on the team.

byron scott was fired after 2 years of getting the #1 pick with kyrie

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Originally Posted by PelicanFever

byron scott was fired after 2 years of getting the #1 pick with kyrie

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Byron Scott is not a good basketball coach....

whodatpelican, is that monty schooling out there!?! if so, thats awesome.

i think they'll both be gone by 2014. i like monty, but the pelicans are going in a new direction and he may not be part of it unless they win soon. gordon needed to be gone a long time ago. he's a cancer and shows zero heart

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Originally Posted by ScoutWithoutClout

whodatpelican, is that monty schooling out there!?! if so, thats awesome.

i think they'll both be gone by 2014. i like monty, but the pelicans are going in a new direction and he may not be part of it unless they win soon. gordon needed to be gone a long time ago. he's a cancer and shows zero heart

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I've been pro trade Gordon for a while now because I think the sooner the better for the team. Not sure I'd questions Eric's heart as much as I would his easily injured body and his desire to play here long term.

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Originally Posted by ScoutWithoutClout

gordon needed to be gone a long time ago. he's a cancer and shows zero heart

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He is actually a capricorn; i dont see what his Zodiac sign has to do with heart.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I've been pro trade Gordon for a while now because I think the sooner the better for the team. Not sure I'd questions Eric's heart as much as I would he's easily injured body and his desire to play here long term.

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This makes more sense. The heart thing is a little retarded. Hell hes been playing injured for the past few months. Hes trying to win back the fanbase, but it might be a little late. Hes gotta ball next season.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

This makes more sense. The heart thing is a little retarded. Hell hes been playing injured for the past few months. Hes trying to win back the fanbase, but it might be a little late. Hes gotta ball next season.

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Whether Gordon plays or not, it's very rare for him to be 100% healthy. He's going to be banged up often.

BTW: What has Gordon done to try to win the fanbase back? The only thing he's really done was stay quiet.

after clippers traded him: "Eric Gordon says clippers lied to him about trade."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...ers_nba_010412

after we gave him 58 mil: "I strongly feel (the Suns) are the right franchise for me. Phoenix is just where my heart is.''

april 8th: "Hornets coach Monty Williams and point guard Eric Gordon got into a screaming match during a timeout with 8:37 left in the third quarter. Millsap had just scored on a putback to put Utah ahead 55-47 and New Orleans called a timeout. Williams was visibly agitated, yelling in Gordon's direction. He had to be held back by assistant coach Randy Ayers after Gordon hollered back at him, and when the team went to the sidelines, Williams continued screaming at Gordon. Gordon did not return to the game after the confrontation."

ESPN names Eric Gordon biggest disappointment of 2012-2013 NBA season: "Just as disappointing as Gordon's incessant health concerns and general off-court disposition has been his play in limited floor time this season. It makes sense he'd struggle given the considerable time he has missed because of injury, but Gordon's league average PER and 51.9 true shooting percentage is still a cause for serious Pelicans concern."

2012-13 .402FG% + 42 games played.

I don't see any way he is trying to win back the fan base. At this point demps will take what he can get.

What is the hard evidence that Gordon does not want to be here? I only know of the "my heart is in Phoenix" statement that he made while trying to get a max offer from Phoenix. Who really knows what his agent (and Phoenix) had him do to get that offer. Or Gordon may just not be media savy and his agent should have advised him better.

From what I have read, his injury to the knee was not something he could play through. It was the team decision not to play in back to backs. It also seems that he played on a very bad ankle for the last month of the season as seen in the picture tweeted. Gordon could not have been very happy this season since he couldn't play his best and wasn't really in good physical condition until the very end of the season. This had to be very frustrating to him and the team.

I have not heard that he is a bad teammate or a locker-room cancer.

We have a player that has all-star potential. There aren't many players like this around, especially for a small-market team. The team needs a player piece like this to go to the championship level.

His ability to stay healthy is a concern. However all of the injuries that he has had should fully heal and let's hope that he can play a full season next year. He is definitely a high-risk high-reward player. I think the team will take this risk.

I guess that if the media says something over and over again, then it must be true, right?

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Originally Posted by oceanback

What is the hard evidence that Gordon does not want to be here? I only know of the "my heart is in Phoenix" statement that he made while trying to get a max offer from Phoenix. Who really knows what his agent (and Phoenix) had him do to get that offer. Or Gordon may just not be media savy and his agent should have advised him better.

From what I have read, his injury to the knee was not something he could play through. It was the team decision not to play in back to backs. It also seems that he played on a very bad ankle for the last month of the season as seen in the picture tweeted. Gordon could not have been very happy this season since he couldn't play his best and wasn't really in good physical condition until the very end of the season. This had to be very frustrating to him and the team.

I have not heard that he is a bad teammate or a locker-room cancer.

We have a player that has all-star potential. There aren't many players like this around, especially for a small-market team. The team needs a player piece like this to go to the championship level.

His ability to stay healthy is a concern. However all of the injuries that he has had should fully heal and let's hope that he can play a full season next year. He is definitely a high-risk high-reward player. I think the team will take this risk.

I guess that if the media says something over and over again, then it must be true, right?

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Gordon literally begging New Orleans not to match Phoenix's contract isn't good enough for you?

People need to let that go. That was almost a year ago and gordon has done nothing to provoke the issue since.

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Originally Posted by jdmcuc

People need to let that go. That was almost a year ago and gordon has done nothing to provoke the issue since.

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He also did nothing to reassure anyone. That's enough to warrant the uncertainty. Add all the trade rumors to the mix and YOUR own GM admitting that he's listening to offers for him doesn't really help now does it?

Dude is the best player on the team. But if he is traded....then we move on. That simple...move on.