If Melo makes it through waivers, should we bring him in? I'd take a declining Melo at SF over anyone we currently have on the roster. Not like it could get any worse.
Printable View
If Melo makes it through waivers, should we bring him in? I'd take a declining Melo at SF over anyone we currently have on the roster. Not like it could get any worse.
No
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's worth a shot
For God's sake, no
Dear God how many teams does he have to be a malcontent on before people realize he's not worth it??
Yeah, we totally should, we havent lost enough games this year
No Rockets fan feel the same way as what's been portrayed by the media. As least amongst the ones I've talked to, who are avid Rockets followers. This mal content talk is bogus
Let's live in this fantasy world that Melo doesn't have an issue with his attitude.
Gentry is literally a D'antoni apprentice. Their systems are probably the two closest offensive schemes in the entire league. We've just witnessed that Melo is a TERRIBLE fit for this system, so much so that they are thinking of cutting him a less than a month into the season. . .
Why on earth would anyone want him on our team where he is just as bad of a fit as on the Rockets? They have even less SF depth than we do and they are possibly cutting bait on him. As far as I'm concerned even on a vet minimum Melo is one of the worst players in the league we could add to this team.
Been on the "Melo is trash" bandwagon since his last year in Denver. Glad to see my fellow Pels fans are agreeing.
houston want to run and gun....we run and gun....why?...
No.
Houston's offense is predicated on 2 guys dominating the ball and everybody else just standing around waiting for the ball to be delivered. They're also loaded with bad defenders. I think he would be a much better fit here. Even Rockets fans say it was on the other guys more than it was on Melo
cp3 on his last leg....houston defense is bad...melo was not knocking down his shots which is needed for houston style....
the only positive i see melo being on this team is that he still can use his size to be a post up player and score inside but that mean less playing time here and we know his mind is not ready to give in to less playing time...
If it fails we can cut him. But he's better than Wes Johnson and Solomon Hill so it's worth a shot imo. Nobody in Houston was knocking down their shots. Eric Gordon shooting 32% fg, 23% 3pt. Harden shooting 41%fg. Chris Paul shooting 40%fg, 33% 3pt. It's just easier to point the finger at Melo.
Edit: also this isnt exactly a reply to you. But Houstons offense is also predicated on jacking up an insane amount of 3s. They totally avoid the mid range, even if it's open. Gentry bent on that last year which allowed Jrue to take off. Although I dont think Melo should be shooting alot, we need another scorer on this team. If Melo fails cut him, it's hard to lose in the situation so it's worth a shot.
yeah its easier to point at melo because he is the new guy...those 3 will play better but you dont know what you will get from melo in the future so i guess houston feel the need to cut now but majority of people figure melo to houston may not work out so just end it now and let whatever team sign him if they think he will be good for them.......
Houston's offense IS predicated on guys standing around waiting to get the ball. One of those guys? Melo. Because he doesn't know how to move off-ball, or cut, or come off screens, because he is next to useless without the ball in his hands. In a motion offense like ours, he would be a dead weight who either stands there waiting for someone to pass it to him so he can jack up a bad shot, or he would refuse to pass the ball and waste the motion of everyone else. The man has a 2.9% assist percentage. It was 6.5% last year, which still sucks.
We had this conversation last time he got dumped, by the Hawks, which happened immediately after he got dumped by OKC.
Melo sucks. He can't defend at all. He is inefficient, and has got more inefficient every year for basically half a decade now. His scoring has gone down, basically every year. His net rating has gone down, basically every year. He hasn't had a positive BPM in years, his win shares are down annually, his VORP is down annually, his PER is down annually, his TS% is down annually, he sucks.
When he sucked in NYC, the excuse was that he had a horrible organisation around him and no help. Doesn't explain why his individual numbers were declining, but we could accept that as a cause of team failure. Then, he goes to OKC: Suddenly he's on a team that gets to the playoffs every year, and he's playing with the reigning MVP and another guy who was an all-star the year before: he still sucks, and all the blame got put on Donovan for letting the entire team down, or Russ for not being a team player. Fine, maybe that's true. Doubtful, but maybe. Now he goes to Houston, who have one of the top 5 point guards of all time, last years MVP, and just came off a conference finals run, and he still sucks, and now the excuse is that his team around him is playing badly, and the coach doesn't know how to use him in the offense.
At what point does Melo get any blame for this? Him sucking in NY isn't his fault, him sucking in OKC isn't his fault, him sucking in Houston isn't his fault. When do we stop with the excuses and realise that the common factor on every team he's sucked on, is him? Doesn't matter if he has no talent like in NY, or a reigning MVP and a guaranteed hall of famer in Houston. Doesn't matter if the team was in a playoff drought like NY or if it just went to the conference finals like Houston. Doesn't matter if the coach was a failure like in NY, or if he was a COTY candidate like D'Antoni. The common factor in every case is Melo, and he sucks. Do we have to get to the point where he spontaneously vomits whenever he touches the ball before people accept that he's declined BADLY?
When do the excuses stop?
https://youtu.be/0gWJZDP_HjE
I know these are just highlights but Melo made about 4 great defensive plays in these 2 minutes while scoring 24pts. We wont know if Melo can move off ball because he never played in an offense that called for it. Anybody can cut, it's not rocket science. He's still an offensive weapon. I still believe he can play for us. Rockets just looking for a scapegoat and Dantoni never liked him, I think he's still holding a grudge.
Melo does not suck. That's just not true. You're pulling advanced statistics 11 games into the season from a losing team. Of course those numbers will look bad. Again we're talking about a minimum deal. We're literally paying 2 SF's a combined $19M that he is much better then. You would literally have to hate Melo to not want to bring him in. It's like this team has crazy depth on the wings or something.
Thanks. Saved me the trouble. Melo is an iso ball player who simply isn't a good fit in an uptempo motion based offense like ours. He's a bad 3pt shooter, a bad defender who gives little to no effort, and his attitude makes him a malcontent whenever things aren't going his way. I don't believe he's better than Wesley Johnson for us.
He's in an offense that requires it right now. Rewatch the Rockets from last season: guys like Ariza cut pretty regularly. Anyone can cut? Somebody better tell that to Melo, because he doesn't seem aware of that.
Also, advanced statistics from 11 games? Dude, the downward trend I'm describing started in 2013-14. The total number of games since then is 351. He's been declining for more games than Joel Embiid has ever played. He's been declining for more games than Kristaps Porzingis has ever played. Hell, he's been declining for more games than Kristaps and Joel Embiid combined have ever played. If that's not a big enough sample size for you, I don't know what to say.
I'd like an answer for my question still: if he sucked in NY and it wasn't his fault, and then he got even worse in OKC and it wasn't his fault, and now he's performing poorly again in Houston and it's not his fault, at what point will it be his fault? What does he have to do in order for it to be his fault, and not somebody else's?
I got have highlights too lol
The Rockets have even worse wing depth than us and they're discussing cutting him. That should tell you everything you need to know about how they feel about him. If they thought he could help them win at all, they wouldn't get rid of Melo.
Highlights are absolutely pointless when looking at a player. Look here's highlights of Hill, it must mean he's actually good!
https://youtu.be/xDZHx_NIFBk
https://twitter.com/WillGuillory/sta...304413186?s=19
Good to know the Pelicans are sensible. They don't even view him as a SF anymore.
He's decline from a superstar status. He hasnt sucked, peoples expectations have been too high. I will gladly take 13-15ppg from Melo. We dont need him to be a star player.
Also Ariza barely cut, I watched tons of rockets games last year. He camped on the 3pt line.
Who on our team will stop Melo from getting minutes? Ian Clark? Solomon Hill? Wesley Johnson? Are these better players? Its established Melo isnt a star anymore. He even accepted a bench role so anybody saying that he still thinks he is, are speaking for a man that has shown different.
He was forced into taking a bench role by one of his best friends :hihi: it wasn't like he magnanimously accepted it.
You want 13-15ppg from Melo. Cool, what efficiency would you find that acceptable at? Is 13ppg at 38% good enough for you? 40?
Given that Melo can't play the small forward position anymore due to his lack of shooting, general slowness, and inability to guard anyone, he's a power forward. So you're not asking whether Wesley Johnson should be getting SF minutes over him, because the answer there is a definitive ringing yes. The question is, at PF, who is he gonna get minutes over, AD, Mirotic, or Randle? And the obvious answer is none of them because he's a worse player than all three.
Again, I repeat: at what point would you consider Melo's failures as a player (lack of defense, inefficiency, inability to pass, etc) a problem with him, and not the team? What would it take for you to look at him and say that he has become a bad player?
come on now...clark,,hill and johnson do the things we need on our team and thats move,,run,,attempt to play defense,,,2 of them make shots,,,they cut,,,they know their role and dont complain about playing time.....hell,,johnson and clark can get you 13-15 pts combined and more as the season goes without messing up the team flow......
"He was forced into taking a bench role by one of his best friends****it wasn't like he magnanimously accepted it."
Do you have proof of this?
I'm not accepting the opinion on SF's of a front office who hasnt been able to bring in an adequate one since Trevor Ariza, and that was before Ariza became a shooter; with all due respect to Demps and company. Melo can definitely still play the 3, he is not slow, and he definitely doesn't lack shooting.
Rockets are 26th in the league on offense, how is Melo getting all the blame that's wild.
Again it's a minimum deal, and you can point out all of Melos flaws. And he still is a better SF than Wes Johnson and Solo. So all that is moot. It's worth a shot imo.
The rhetoric that Melo is uninterested in playing defense is completely founded by people who haven't watched more than 2 rockets games this season. Their fans dont agree. Again it's a minimum deal. Its early in the season. He can literally be cut after 10-15 games if it doesnt work out, and we wont even remember we had him on the team.
Ironic thing is Melo will end up with Warriors and will be great for them lol
My proof is that he spent a full year in OKC refusing point blank to come off the bench, and it's only when he got let go by OKC, then dumped by Atlanta that he went to Houston where he was saying as late as September 25th that had not "had that conversation with anybody yet" about a bench role. The best friend I was talking about was CP3 and you know it.
Melo can't play the 3. I'm sorry if you still think he can, but he can't. He's too slow. You say he isn't slow, all I can say is watch the games. Last year in OKC the team played at a below 100 pace whenever he was on the floor. Houston has been playing less seven-seconds-or-less this season with Melo.
''He definitely doesn't lack shooting''. He's shooting 32% from three this year, shot 35% the two years before that, shot 33% the year before that, and shot 34% the year before that. This is a career 34% three point shooter, who has been declining over the last 5 years. He can't shoot. Sorry if it's inconvenient, but he can't. He hasn't shot 45% from the field in general since 2013-14.
''How is Melo getting all the blame'' he's not. The team in general is underperforming, but acting like Melo isn't a part of that failure is a complete blindness and unwillingness to accept what's happening. Harden is underperforming too, but his net rating is still neutral at +0. Not a positive, not at all, but when he plays the team is staying afloat. Chris Paul is playing well below his usual standard, but he's still giving out 8 assists a game, and has a positive VORP and BPM, while also having a +0 net rating. They're both underperforming, but when they are on the court the Rockets are a mediocre team. They aren't scoring heavily, but they aren't bleeding points either. They are neutral presences.
Melo, by contrast, is a net negative. His net rating is -10 right now. When he is on the floor they are bleeding points. He isn't scoring either, averaging 13 points on 40% from the field and 32% from three. He isn't getting to the FT line, and he isn't playmaking either. Rockets suck in general, but Melo is a standout poor performer even amongst that mess. In a way, that's impressive.
He is not a better SF for our system than Wes, because Wes moves off ball, passes well, doesn't care about getting shots up, and plays hard on defense. Don't know why you're mentioning Solo when he hasn't even played in 3 games and it's pretty clear that the team isn't interested in playing him either. If your argument is that Melo is better than a guy who doesn't even play 5 minutes a game, then sure, but that's a backhanded compliment if I ever heard one.
Again, I am really trying to get an answer here. Fourth time lucky, I hope: at what point do you attribute Melo's struggling to himself? How bad does he have to be before you accept that his poor play is a result of himself, rather than the coach or his team-mates, or the system, or whatever? Where does your tolerance stop?
i wanted melo b4 he went to OKC....the rockets is bad on defense as a whole....melo just cant do what he used to do....imo its just not worth the time to sign him and mess up the team chemistry to find out if he still got it......when healthy gentry has a 8 man rotation with miller and johnson at the SF spot off the bench and those 8 can ball....i just dont see melo as that player to mess the rotation up on a still got it audition....
Again it's a minimum deal. If it doesnt work out. He can be cut in less than 10 games. No harm no foul.
His decline is a result of himself, but I wouldnt say poor play because he's not terrible. He just isnt old Melo. Rockets secretly wanted Melo to come in and average 20+ppg and when that didnt happen, he became the scapegoat.
Let Gentry and the team sit down with him, and explain some games he may play less than 15 minutes a game. If he agrees bring him in. If he ends up being a regular part of the rotation we got a steal. If he doesnt, we cut him and back at square one without the loss of any assets. There's no losses taken by bringing him in.
What do you consider terrible? If less than 15ppg on barely 40% from the field with a -10 net rating, negative BPM and VORP, a sub average PER, a sub average TS%, etc, isn't terrible, what is? Does he have to average 5ppg on 25% from the field with a 150 defensive rating before he qualifies as terrible?
We do lose something by taking him in: cohesion. We're 12 games in to the season, and we're a .500 team. We need to be more than that. Say we add Melo, for a sample size of another 12 games before re-evaluating his performance. We disrupt our rotations by bringing in a player who is at best a 50/50 shot of being decent. If he sucks, we risk losing more games than we can afford over that period of time, while also taking minutes from players like Johnson who have already proven themselves to be decent pieces in our system. If he's good, which is very unlikely at this point, then sure it all works out, but the evidence tells us that that's not likely, and we risk falling behind in the rankings as well as alienating our other players if he's bad.
It's worth it imo. I dont see it messing up the cohesion in any significant way. Its November not February. It's better than making a trade, giving up assets and seeing if it works out. It's a minimum deal. Did Okafor getting minutes mess up cohesion? Did Solo going to the bench mess up cohesion? Nobody is going to remember November-mid December come April. Heck, alot of our team didnt even wake up until January last season.
When Okafor came in, it was a last ditch effort to find someone to soak up minutes after a major injury. He hadn't been in the league for a while, and was a totally humbled vet who was there to rebound and play defense. That's a lot different to a career scorer who can't play defense, has had historical trouble adjusting to anything other than a starting role, and who has declined in his only elite skill.
It's November, but this is a season where we MUST make the playoffs, and where it's going to be a tight race. Games lost in November can mean missing the playoffs. We've already lost too many games this early, frankly, we can't afford to potentially throw away another handful just on the off-chance that Melo might not be quite as terrible here as he's been elsewhere.
I was talking about Jahlil. We should've kept Mek.
11 games is not historical trouble adjusting to anything other than a starting role. Wes Johnson have good games against Phoenix and Chicago and all of a sudden he a revelation lol. That dude is 31 years old. He's going to struggle against real teams. Or I guess he's turned his career around after being "historically" trash. Ironic.
I doubt Gentry will play Melo to the detriment of losing games. If that's the case Frank would be playing over Clark until he figured it out. It's worth it imo, there's nothing else on the market and this team has major holes. It's a minimum deal.
Yeah so we're messing up that 8 man rotation regardless. Might as well take a shot at a low risk free agent before trading actual assets. I would like Barnes as well but that's gon require a pick. Melo wouldnt stop us from making that trade if it came available.
Wes isn't a revelation at all, but he's capable. He's been a good defender in general for years, and that's all we need: someone who can defend with tenacity and take the open shots. We have a guy who can put up 30 a night, we have three other guys who can all put up 20 any given night, and we have another two guys who can put up 10-15 any given night. Our offense does not need help. Our biggest issue is our defense. Wes helps with that, Melo doesn't. That's it, point blank.
If Gentry won't play Melo if he's losing us games, then he's not worth signing at all, because historical evidence suggests that's all he'll do. Any new player, especially a high usage one like Melo has always been (still has a 20+% usage rate in Houston) takes time to adjust to a new team. If we lose even 2 or 3 games due to his struggles adjusting, he won't touch the court again. IN that case, it's been a waste of time and money.
The team has holes. Those holes are precisely the holes that Melo can not, will not, and never has been capable of filling.
Man you really have an obsession with Melo huh good god
Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk