there is a rumor floating around that Lillard will request a trade within the next few days.... let's see...
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there is a rumor floating around that Lillard will request a trade within the next few days.... let's see...
Dame to philly for simmons? Would portland take that over anything we have to offer?
I don?t think this team is ready to make the most of this type of trade. So I say the Pels should pass.
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Make it happen...
Ok but what players do we give up? The Blazers are rumored to being sold. I guess i?d be ok with sending Bledsoe and Adams there but not our young players. Kind of messed up to send promising young players to a team in such disarray right?
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If the Blazers ask for BI, NAW, Kira, 10, Pels 2023, Lakers 2024. So basically all of our best assets
For reference:
Philly -- Simmons, Maxey, 28, 2023 first, 2026 first
Knicks -- Barrett, Toppin, Quickley, 19, 21, 2023 1st, Dallas 2023 1st, etc.
Celtics -- Brown, Rob Williams, Grant Williams, Nesmith, 2022 1st (after this years draft), 2025 1st, 2027 1st
Warriors -- Wiggins, Wiseman, 7, 14, 2022 1st, 2026 1st
Rockets -- 2, 23, 24, etc.
Raptors -- OG/Siakam, 4, 2023 1st, 2025 1st, 2027 1st
I would not depart with our young guys. You won't have a good bench left if NAW/Hayes are traded. They are too promising to move. We should keep our 10th pick or package it with Bledsoe/Adams even Kira for a glue guy/s that can either play D or shoot from outside. We need a third wheel aka Jrue for the Bucks. We have our two stars already and don't need another superstar.
I get what he is saying though. He is saying we don?t need to sacrifice our depth for one player that is just going to take away shots from Zion and Ingram.
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lets start here....if you were portland GM, what would it take for you to engage in a conversation with the pelicans?....
At this moment if I were Portland, I'd be asking for the package I mentioned above of BI, NAW, Kira, 10, Pels 2023, Lakers 2024, and probably Pels 2025. I don't think they sniff that much value for Lillard however. Realistically I think something like BI, Kira, 10, and their choice of one more 1st will be competitive with the offers they get from other teams (but again I think everything centers around the Raptors)
That’s even worse. I want someone good enough to demand shots from the other two elite players. Because one of them will be off one game. Then there’s two other dudes go pick up the slack. I want the problem is not enough shots to go around. That’s not a problem. Thats a privilege.
The game is in big 3s... So, shipping out Ingram with a plethora of picks just seems like a shortsighted move considering the age and holes still on the team. You just get a nicer version of last year team with less depth lol.
It’s not the same. Lillard > Ingram and it’s not even close. And we wouldn’t be giving up everything. We’d have enough assets remaining to make smaller moves to bring in depth and fill the roster out. I mean, how many teams are going more than 8 men deep?
Plus we would still be in position to sign and trade Lonzo. Or just keep him.
If it comes at the expense of Ingram, I think I'd rather pursue McCollum.
I agree with this. I only like the trade if it is centered around Ingram and 10. Of course we need Bledsoe or Adams to go out for salaries to somewhat match.
What about Ingram, Bledsoe, 10, and 3 additional 1sts for Lillard and Covington?
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Yea, again, it's all relative. Can our offer beat out the next. He won't have the leverage to demand a specific location. I personally believe the Pels would be willing to part with just about anything outside of Zion in order to obtain Lillard. I'm super interested to see how the league values Ingram in these conversations.
Kira holds very little value in a trade for a star. S&T Ball could be difficult given he would have to agree to sign there (and we would be unable to trade #10 with him as free agency opens up after the draft). Even with that, plenty of teams could easily beat that deal.
It also depends on what Portland wants to do as well. If they want a complete rebuild they may be interested in picks more than players. Especially flawed players like Simmons. Brown would be nice but what else do the Celtics have to offer and does Portland think that deal gets them where they want to be?
Edited to add: Ingram will be traded because every player I use as my avatar gets traded apparently...
He just shut it down. Says he just wants to make it clear he wants changes but expects to be in a Blazer uniform next season.
It was sort of shut down, the comments Dame made certainly don't make me feel like this is the last we have heard of this. Still feels like the door is open for a move to be made.
I'm also curious to hear from others with Dame just turning 31 realistically how many more years does he have left in the tank performing at an elite level? I personally feel like you get 2 maybe at best 3 years where he is still the mainly the same guy we have seen over the last 4-5 years, but realistically his peak is or has already come to an end. Also by throwing everything including the kitchen sink in a trade at Dame I'm not sure how confident I am with the org putting together a winning roster but yeah I understand these would be questions you would ask after getting him. From my view I could see us falling into a Portland like scenario (the irony) where our starting 5 excels but our bench/depth being a major issue coupled with being one key injury away from mediocrity (zion or dame going down).
Short term yeah I would love him on the team, Dame is probably my favourite non-pel and I do agree with most of you here that when a superstar becomes available you do what you can to grab them. Long term well I have concerns with sending out the majority of our assets for a 2-3 year peak to appease Zion, but I do understand the franchise is in a tough position and whatever move gets made will have plenty of attention on it especially after what occurred last offseason.
I'm all in on this and would bet the farm. We literally have two farms of assets. So really I would bet one farm and the other would be safe. I love BI and think he could even become a better overall player than Dame, eventually, but but I think Dame fits better with Zion and he would bring the wins now....which would make Zion happy.
That being said, I try as hard as I can to get Dame while keeping BI and Zion. We have so much young talent and picks that we would still be able to keep some for ourselves and a trio of BI, Zion, and Dame is the type of core that ring chasers take vet min to play next to. Remember what we pulled in for AD (a bigger star than Dame, at the time). A Ball who had shown no improvement, Hart, and a BI that people on this board swore would never step another foot on the court, and picks.
Just Dame and Zion would still be great. Lonzo is on a trajectory to be the 3rd cheese in a big power trio. Forget the local haters. People with basketball acumen see how much he's improved over the past few seasons and can project a more accurate ceiling for him. That's why he has so much hype around him this offseason. Dame, Zion, and Ball would be a killer trio and if BI were in thr mme trade, we'd still have a solid team around thrm.
So you take what you got for Jrue, and most of what you got for AD, and move it for Lillard?
what the hell....lets go all in and make dame,,CJ and zion our big 3....
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1 guy has been super clutch his whole career. The other is named Brandon Ingram
Nah. A lot of basketball fans are too impatient. They see 31 year old Dame and compare him to Brandon Ingram at 23. Or 26 year old Giannis and wonder why 21 year old Zion isn't carrying his team deep into the playoffs, yet. They allow that there is a slight difference in experience but don't see that it's THAT many years. BI won't be hitting his prime for another few seasons.
Dame was about 22 years old when he was drafted. BI is 23, now. Let that marinate a bit.
When Dame was in his late 20s, he couldn't carry his team past the Pels. I would wager money BI is able to get a team out of the 1st round of the playoffs in his late 20s.
In a vacuum, I'd keep BI over Dame. But thinking about who compliments Zion better and accelerating our timeline to attract better FAs and appease Zion makes me pull the trigger on a trade.
We also seem to be looking at this from the angle of "what will it take to get the superstar?" but we were just in this situation with AD and everyone who was around back then remembers that no team has the firepower to make an even trade. Boston wasn't even willing to give up both Tatum AND Brown. Like pelsfanatic is saying, it's more of "what can teams afford to give Portland for Dame?" Because a team not only has to have the ammo but they then still have to have a team after the trade good enough to appese their new superstar.
So. What packages can other teams put together and still be competitive that would be better than anything we can put together?
I don't have an answer. I'm really asking.
Another team would have to hope to make the trade and then get the stream of players looking to win a title at a discount. Like, if he went to Philly after they gave up Simmons, Maxey, and a ton of picks and swaps, lets say - then maybe you get 3-4 ring chasers to come in for the min or the room exception. The other path would be Knicks trade everything and are meh next season, but then clear the books and go get two max guys the following summer (say Zach Lavine and KD after he gets antsy and jumps again)
Regardless, the most likely outcome for nearly everyone is that they wont win a title. I would say Lillard's best chance to win a title, as sad as it is to say, is for him to be deemed a bad contract a year or two from now after maybe suffering a bad injury and lowered production, and then he gets traded for practically nothing like CP3 did.
FWIW, Griff hasnt make Ingram part of the package offer, and likely wont. Ingram was a big part of the coaching hire process and the team sees him and Zion as the two cornerstones right now. After that, NAW is the 3rd most internally desired piece, thought its a big gap and he would obviously be traded for the right guy. But of our young guys and picks (Kira, Hayes, #10, future picks), I think Griff and staff value NAW above all of them
Worth noting that this is less significant in regards to a Lillard trade than other recent superstar moves. You had to know you'd have a team good enough to compete after acquiring AD because he had one year left on his deal and could just walk if you didn't. Same with Kawhi, just to name another recent example.
This is not the case with Lillard. He has 5 years left on his deal: unless you think he's a legit threat to sit out 3+ years of a contract refusing to play (which I don't think he would) you don't need to know for sure you'd have a competitor left once you'd acquired him, you'd just need to believe you had a clear road to a competitor once you acquired him. Which wouldn't be too hard to imagine, even if it would be more difficult in practice.
My question is: what sort of rebuild will the PDX FO want?
1. A complete tear down where you receive umpteen first round picks, some very young talent and ********ty contract filler like Bled and Adams to make the trade legal (also probably trade CJ)
OR
2. A competitive type rebuild where you want a decent star type player like Ingram, picks and some very young talent (and keep CJ)?