November 27th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Utah Jazz - 5-16

Round ✌️

🏀: vs Jazz
🕗: 8pm CST
📺: @BallySportsNO
📻:@ESPNRadioNOLA #WBD | @SmoothieKing pic.twitter.com/ne2bRme6Cc

— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) November 27, 2021

We go again!

Having now won 3 of our last 5 games, and going 4-4 over our last 8, the Pelicans are starting to look a little bit more like a basketball team. Our defense has moved from league worst to ''just bad'' overall the last few games, ranking us now 27th in the NBA on the season, but that's a bit misleading: over the last ten games, with more health luck, we've actually been a top 20 defense - 17th, I believe, during that span. The offense is still struggling, but there's hope on the horizon for that with a better rotation for the last few games (even if still not perfect) and the belief that Zion will probably return before Christmas.

Last game we won out over the Utah Jazz in a very close game that featured some of our best defense of the year. Will we be able to repeat that? Who knows, but there's only one way to find out.

GAMEDAY MOOD. This is awesome .@adaniels33 pic.twitter.com/3FJdJEvGhg

— Pro Pels Talk (@ProPelsTalk) November 27, 2021

Antonio Daniels is absurdly jacked lmao

Based on his in game energy, that's about what I expect AD's expression is like most of the time :hihi:

Great win last night. Anyone else praying Hart is happy staying a Pel? Always loved the guy, but after getting his 3-ball in order, he is a LEGIT super high tier role player in almost every aspect of the game.

The biggest issue for me w/ Hart is every year he gets hurt and misses about 20 to 30 games himself. His energy and effort has always been there when he plays, looks like he's finally getting his shooting together to match.

Jazz just making everything out there

I have to say them losing those game won't bother me as much. They pulled out a crazy win last game and it's a b2b on the same court.

Defense good to end it there but we are 0 for 10 on 3pt attempts. My goodness. If we just had one of Jazz's players like Ingles or Bodganovic.

My bad, we are 0-15 on 3pt attempts.

Yeah, there are definitely some issues this game but the biggest problem is that we can't throw a rock in the ocean right now (0/17 from 3) whereas the Jazz could shoot the wings off a fly's back from 60 paces tonight.

What I don't like though is that okay, we're really struggling to hit anything from outside, spacing has collapsed, there are no C&S threats right now.

And Trey is glued to the bench still. Garrett Temple, Satoransky, both have touched the floor. Why not try the 6'9 shooting specialist who is shooting 37% on 10 attempts per 100? Might be worth a shot, at least. Can't not hit worse than the guys who are already not hitting.

Yeah, Trey should be playing but for me right now I'm looking at BI like what are you doing? 4/14 is not gonna cut it. I mean even yesterday he was 8/22 he just made a good pass to Devonte and we let his miscues go but since he has returned from injury dude is not getting it done.

0-20... Wow... That's still not as bad as missing 27 consecutive threes.

NAW finally made one and it rattled in. Lol.

Not gonna win many games going 0-20 to start off on 3's. Last night made this blowout more watchable. I would've turned this crap off at the start of the 3rd any other day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

Yeah, Trey should be playing but for me right now I'm looking at BI like what are you doing? 4/14 is not gonna cut it. I mean even yesterday he was 8/22 he just made a good pass to Devonte and we let his miscues go but since he has returned from injury dude is not getting it done.

---

BI played well against Washington but otherwise has been a horror-show since coming back from injury. He's been flat out awful the vast majority of the time.

Not trying to make excuses b/c they have to figure out how to win b2b games but it sucks they had to play b2b, they didn't even get a chance to feel really good about their win last night which could have been a momentum builder for them.

Jaxson Hayes coming in late and nailing three 3PAs is extremely funny.

Jaxson Hayes is our leading scorer. That's goofy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeapeaNOLA

Jaxson Hayes is our leading scorer. That's goofy.

---

Also has single handedly made half of the team's 3s for the entire game.

Hayes starting next game! :hihi:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

Yeah, Trey should be playing but for me right now I'm looking at BI like what are you doing? 4/14 is not gonna cut it. I mean even yesterday he was 8/22 he just made a good pass to Devonte and we let his miscues go but since he has returned from injury dude is not getting it done.

---

Even elite wings and guards go through bad shooting patches. Donovon Mitchell and Paul George have had many of them this year. Mr 50/40/90 Khris Middleton is having the worst shooting year of his career.

So while BI's shooting has slumped and the TOs have crept up, he still looks to distribute the ball and his defense has held up. Never mind the constant doubles and triple teams missing Zion.

The team is also 4 - 5 since he's returned against this ridiculous schedule with a league high 22 games and 6 back-to-backs.

I thought someone said Jaxson would never see the floor again?

The dumb comments about him are on rinse/repeat I guess. We just went through this last year.

Billy was going to get some run at some point and it had less to do with Jaxson playign horribly, because he wasn't. And some point, just like last year, it's going to flip around again because Jaxson is the better player with the higher ceiling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

I thought someone said Jaxson would never see the floor again?

The dumb comments about him are on rinse/repeat I guess. We just went through this last year.

Billy was going to get some run at some point and it had less to do with Jaxson playign horribly, because he wasn't. And some point, just like last year, it's going to flip around again because Jaxson is the better player with the higher ceiling.

---

That's not what was said. If you are going to quote someone, at least get the quote right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by As I See It

It wouldn't surprise me if JAX never hits the floor in a Pelicans uniform again.

---

LMAO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

NAW finally made one and it rattled in. Lol.

---

I've noticed the ones he makes are coming off a screen going to his left catch-and-shoots.

Was checking the score while at Legoland with my kids. Needless to say....i only had to check it twice to know that lightning was not going to strike twice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

So while BI's shooting has slumped and the TOs have crept up, he still looks to distribute the ball and his defense has held up. Never mind the constant doubles and triple teams missing Zion.

The team is also 4 - 5 since he's returned against this ridiculous schedule with a league high 22 games and 6 back-to-backs.

---

My concern for BI is that I think this is probably his single worst slump since becoming a Pelican, and it coincides directly with that injury he got. I wonder if he got enough recovery on it, or if it's still bothering him - the implications of him playing on a damaged limb are not something I like the idea of.

Plus, it's a long enough slump now that it's seriously impacting his season-long numbers. He's now played more games post-injury than he did pre-injury, and he's been really awful for that time.

Since he came back from injury, Ingram is averaging 18/6/4 on 37%FG and 28% from 3. About 45%TS, and the TOs have crept up alongside it.

He's now averaging, for this entire season:

- His lowest TS% since his rookie year
- Lowest 3pAr of his career
- Lowest FTr of his career
- Career high TOV%
- Career low STL%
- Career low BLK%
- Lowest BPM since his rookie year
- Lowest VORP since his rookie year
- Lowest WS/48 in his career (he's currently averaging negative win shares)
- -4.3 RAPTOR, another career low - that's 123rd out of the 130 players with at least 500 minutes played this season.
- Career low rim attempts
- -1.0 in EPM, 189th in the NBA, in the 50th percentile. 65th percentile offensively, 29th percentile defensively. He was top 60 last year.

It's extremely bad, beyond just a slump and I hope he gets back to normal soon because this is disastrous.

Found the stat you're looking for @adaniels33

BI's EFG% after amount of dribbles pic.twitter.com/RzFkGWwvq8

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) November 28, 2021

That would suggest they aingrsm is much, much better when someone else sets the table for him. That’s clear just from watching. He’s not quick enough to get space without being clever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eman5805

That would suggest they aingrsm is much, much better when someone else sets the table for him. That’s clear just from watching. He’s not quick enough to get space without being clever.

---

He gets himself into impossible predicaments by dribbling down into the paint and then having no idea how to pass out of it. Not a knock on him, it's just not his game and he doesn't have the basketball IQ or self awareness to just NOT DO THAT.

Like dude...just do what you are good at. Movement behind screens, catch and shoot midrange and 3's. Thats it. Not a facilitator, not a ball handler. He should not ever be putting the ball on the floor, ever.

It's on the coaching staff to amplify his strength and minimize his weaknesses, and I haven't seen much of that from them.

All player's shooting will go down with increased dribbles. The more you dribble the more the defense can bring help. And more likely you'll be shooting off balance or rushed. There will be precious few players who's shooting goes up the harder they have to work for their shot.

And I don't know if anyone is paying any attention to anything else, but lots of wings are struggling with their shot.

Jayson Tatum is shooting even worse than BI and just turned in a 2 -16 night, yet Boston still won. Last time the Pelicans played the Clips, Paul George was 8 - 26. Before their game tonight his last two games were 7 - 23 and 5 - 19.

I already mentioned Khris Middleton is not looking like himself this year with a 42/33/85 shooting split.

The league is allowing more hand checking and bumps this year and are swallowing their whistles. So if I see BI go 8 - 22 and the Pelicans still win, I'm not going to birch about it. That seems fairly common in the league this year.

BI has blown by many defenders, right there on screen for all to see, yet you still have people claiming he's too slow? What are you looking at? That ain't it.

It's still early and lots of players are still adjusting to this new NBA. And Zion coming back in the next few weeks should also help scatter the defense.

Yeah. But Ingram is slow. That is right there for all to see. He blows by people who over commit and he uses big honking strides to get in front of them. I.e. being clever. There's no shame in it. We can't all be freaks of nature.

I don't care about his shot volume. Someone has gotta take them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eman5805

Yeah. But Ingram is slow. That is right there for all to see. He blows by people who over commit and he uses big honking strides to get in front of them. I.e. being clever. There's no shame in it. We can't all be freaks of nature.

I don't care about his shot volume. Someone has gotta take them.

---

Didn't watch a lot of Ingram before this year, but my comp for him is a bigger version of D'Angelo Russell. He will score points, make plays for others every once in a while. But he doesnt make your team much better. Below average defense. Not high effort at any time other than when he is trying to get his own shot. Not using his length to get boards. He will always get his points, and he has skill of course. But he cant carry a bad roster and he honestly doesnt make a good roster great or a great roster elite. He gets his team empty points and little to nothing else. Bigger D'Angelo Russell

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan

Didn't watch a lot of Ingram before this year, but my comp for him is a bigger version of D'Angelo Russell. He will score points, make plays for others every once in a while. But he doesnt make your team much better. Below average defense. Not high effort at any time other than when he is trying to get his own shot. Not using his length to get boards. He will always get his points, and he has skill of course. But he cant carry a bad roster and he honestly doesnt make a good roster great or a great roster elite. He gets his team empty points and little to nothing else. Bigger D'Angelo Russell

---

You didn't watch a lot of Ingram, yet you have detailed analysis of D'Angelo Russell? Curious!

Anecdotally, I've seen BI get some out of position rebounds this year that I haven't noticed before. I agree with you that with his length he should be rebounding, hopefully that is something that sticks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ml wave

You didn't watch a lot of Ingram, yet you have detailed analysis of D'Angelo Russell? Curious!

Anecdotally, I've seen BI get some out of position rebounds this year that I haven't noticed before. I agree with you that with his length he should be rebounding, hopefully that is something that sticks.

---

Honestly, I don't think I even saw 5 Pelicans games before this year. But I have seen a lot of Russell, mostly in LA and Brooklyn. I don't both watching Timberwolves games. But yeah, he is the first person that came to mind as I started watching Ingram. Mostly because I never really notice him throughout the game unless he is messing up, but then at the end of the game he has like 20 or 25 points and I am surprised by that because he felt so inconsequential

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan

Honestly, I don't think I even saw 5 Pelicans games before this year. But I have seen a lot of Russell, mostly in LA and Brooklyn. I don't both watching Timberwolves games. But yeah, he is the first person that came to mind as I started watching Ingram. Mostly because I never really notice him throughout the game unless he is messing up, but then at the end of the game he has like 20 or 25 points and I am surprised by that because he felt so inconsequential

---

What was your opinion of Zach Lavine his first year as a Bull?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eman5805

Yeah. But Ingram is slow. That is right there for all to see. He blows by people who over commit and he uses big honking strides to get in front of them. I.e. being clever. There's no shame in it. We can't all be freaks of nature.

I don't care about his shot volume. Someone has gotta take them.

---

Except this isn't true at all. The NBA is not college. Most if not all NBA players have to be clever. Especially the ones that have to deal with multiple defenders and walls.

Hardly no NBA player will just blow by an NBA defender in a straight line unless it's a big center. Especially when we are talking about 6'7"+ wings.

Even Zion uses his wide body and leverage to get his shot off, which still gets blocked a few times per game.

Ingram isn't a slow player and his blow bys are legit. He's not like Malcolm Brogdon.

It's like Ingram is the basketball version of Jamies Winston or Aaron Brooks in these parts. So wierd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luckyman

Except this isn't true at all. The NBA is not college. Most if not all NBA players have to be clever. Especially the ones that have to deal with multiple defenders and walls.

Hardly no NBA player will just blow by an NBA defender in a straight line unless it's a big center. Especially when we are talking about 6'7"+ wings.

Even Zion uses his wide body and leverage to get his shot off, which still gets blocked a few times per game.

Ingram isn't a slow player and his blow bys are legit. He's not like Malcolm Brogdon.

It's like Ingram is the basketball version of Jamies Winston or Aaron Brooks in these parts. So wierd.

---

Why is there even an argument? Clearly you’re agreeing with me. Ingram doesn’t have a quick first step. He has a long one. He can cover ground well as he’s not unathletic. He isn’t twitchy at all. Relatively slow foot speed. But smooth and coordinated. Sometimes struggles turning that corner if his long strides don’t compensate. These were knocks out of college.

Dude is a very good player. But the less he needs to create the better. Moments like the first Utah game were optimal. Made the right play in the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wowowowow

What was your opinion of Zach Lavine his first year as a Bull?

---

That he was empty calories but super explosive. So, there was room for growth. Ingram is a limited athlete so the ceiling is lower. Lavine was like a 10 athlete with 6 skill and now he made that skill a 9, so he is awesome. Ingram is like a 6 athlete with 8.5 skill. You don't become a better athlete. Sure, he can get the skill to a 9 or maybe in a dream world a 9.5, but there is no world where he can improve as much from age 22 to 25 like LaVine did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan

Honestly, I don't think I even saw 5 Pelicans games before this year. But I have seen a lot of Russell, mostly in LA and Brooklyn.

---

In LA only his rookie year, because his second year Ingram was also on the team...then weirdly back on the D'Angelo Russell scouting train when he went to Brooklyn? Very unusual NBA viewing habits!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan

That he was empty calories but super explosive. So, there was room for growth. Ingram is a limited athlete so the ceiling is lower. Lavine was like a 10 athlete with 6 skill and now he made that skill a 9, so he is awesome. Ingram is like a 6 athlete with 8.5 skill. You don't become a better athlete. Sure, he can get the skill to a 9 or maybe in a dream world a 9.5, but there is no world where he can improve as much from age 22 to 25 like LaVine did.

---

there is no such thing as empty calories in the NBA, barring just stat padding, which players do. Your description of Ingram could be applied to Demar Derozan and it would read like a common take of the past decade. But obviously Demar has bloomed as a player even later than one might expect, and he's done it largely just improving on the things he's already good at. That's the template for Ingram, and there's more to him than just "athleticism" and "skill" layed out in abstract terms. No he's not suddenly going to become a world class athlete, but he doesn't have to. As long as he continues to grow in his strength areas (shooting, passing, handle) and even in some swing areas, (decision makeing) etc. he can reach a reasonably high ceiling, and it's not as though he hasn't already set that precedent in his career before