http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y296osjo
Very simply done. Nothing complex.
We can throw in one of our draft picks too. Thoughts?
The Trade Machine is back! For those that want Devin Booker!
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08-11-2020, 05:00 PM13 - 3The Trade Machine is back! For those that want Devin Booker!
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08-11-2020, 05:08 PMPelicanidae
You offer this to Phoenix and they laugh in your face.
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08-11-2020, 05:16 PMdonato
What about:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y5ccebqw
plus 2020 1st rounder and 2022 1st rounder -
08-11-2020, 05:41 PMAs I See ItTHIS!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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08-11-2020, 05:55 PMSnarly
He ain’t going anywhere with the way that team is trending.
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08-11-2020, 06:13 PMPelicanidae
It's an interesting situation because in a lot of ways, Booker fits our needs.
- He's the right sort of age range to fit with Zion and Ingram
- He's not a PG but he's played enough of it that he does have the ability to run basic actions as a distributor
- He's very good off-ball as well as on-ball, so you can play him alongside other heavy usage players without issue
- He can really really score
He's only a mediocre pull up shooter (35% this year), and in a perfect world we'd want to pair Zion with someone who was electric on the pullup (Lillard remains the gold-standard for this really, shooting 40.3% on 7 pullup 3s a game this year, holy gravity), but that's something he could easily be adding to his game and he'd have other players to draw attention for him in New Orleans that he doesn't really have in Phoenix. Defenses have to pay more attention to Zion and Ingram than they do Dario Saric and DeAndre Ayton (although Ayton has improved this year!)
The biggest issue I have with his game is defense, where he's still pretty mediocre. Pairing bad at defense Booker with bad at defense Ingram alongside currently-bad-at-defense Zion is not optimal. Of course you can fix that to some extent by hoping Jax becomes a legit rim protector and Hart continues to be a pest, and hoping that Zion's defense comes back, but it's still not perfect.
Then of course, there's cost. If Phoenix are moving Booker they want a King's ransom, and justifiably. Do we have what it takes to get a trade done for him without completely gutting the team and franchise? I doubt it. If I'm Phoenix and New Orleans comes asking for Booker I say okay, we start with Ingram and picks. That's starting to approach a price that I wouldn't want to be meeting. -
08-11-2020, 08:19 PM13 - 3Well guess some of you don’t want to win. Enjoy the same ole same ole tonightQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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08-11-2020, 08:23 PMPelicanidaeHas nothing to do with want and everything to do with reality. You offer Phoenix a 1 to 1 swap of Holiday for Booker with no picks attached and they tell you to go take a running jump. You add in a pick and they might take away the running part.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3
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08-11-2020, 08:25 PM13 - 3Let’s just let him go to GS then. Yeah he spilled the beansQuote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
https://nypost.com/2020/08/09/draymo...oker-comments/ -
08-11-2020, 08:31 PM13 - 3Perfect. Let us not forget we got Booker connections here already in our trainerQuote:
Originally Posted by donato
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08-11-2020, 10:28 PMEman5805
Throw in Ingram and they still won't do it.
Not until he demands a trade anyway. -
08-11-2020, 10:33 PM13 - 3It’s no secretQuote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
https://www.inquisitr.com/6176724/ne...er-team-watch/
https://theknickswall.com/devin-book...kbuster-trade/ -
08-11-2020, 10:42 PM13 - 3
Sweeten the deal offer them our lottery pick too. Since this draft is crummy.
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08-12-2020, 10:47 AMPELICANSFAN
I cannot see Phoenix trading Booker at all. He would have to pull an AD or Butler move and become a cancer publicly for them to even consider. Even then, there would be teams out there willing to give up the farm for him.
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08-12-2020, 11:04 AMPelicanidaeThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Like I said, if they ever did want to move Booker for whatever reason, the deal starts with Ingram and doesn't get off the ground without him. You refuse Ingram, then they'll want Zion. You refuse both, you're not getting him. -
08-12-2020, 03:52 PMEman5805Then we’d have ourselves some Book. Because I’d drive Ingram to Phoenix myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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08-12-2020, 03:59 PMPelicanidaeWhich is fine, I'd ship Ingram off for Booker too, even acknowledging all the of massive strides Ingram has taken this year. There are a good handful of super high level players who I can imagine fitting great alongside Zion that I would shift Ingram for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman5805
I'm just pointing out that if you want to trade for Booker, that's what it will take. No use throwing out Jrue trades; I love Jrue but hes not a superstar and he's not a 25ppg guy and he's basically 30 now. No way a team on the up moves a budding star for him at this point unless that star is demanding a trade or you attach like 6 FRPs to it :hihi: -
08-12-2020, 04:17 PMMichaelMcNamara
We are going to have to wait. The next major young star wont be shipped for a while. Booker is at the point right now where AD was with us after the GS sweep. We got hot for a few weeks, made the playoffs, future looked bright. Guy just signed a new, long term deal. Optimism was abound
History says Booker will eventually be traded. KAT too. Isaac, if he ever stays healthy. Maybe Fox in 3-4 years.
But its not happening soon. Thats why the Pels should be gathering up picks in 2024, 2025, 2026 if and when they move Jrue or JJ. The Pels will have an opportunity in 2022 or 2023 to land a BIG piece. And they need to have all the ammo they can for that day. Because they will have to pay big the way the Clips did with PG or Lakers did with AD. But if you have 6 picks from other teams and all your own, it doesnt hurt as much when you gotta give up 5 of them
Right now, you develop Zion and Ingram to be two of your top 3 title pieces and then you just keep hoarding assets and spotlighting young guys who could add value in a trade....then pounce when one of these guys actually comes available -
08-12-2020, 04:28 PMPELICANSFANWhat do you think realistic value is for Jrue. Is there more value in the offseason, given a weaker free agency, than waiting for the deadline?Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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08-12-2020, 04:37 PMAs I See ItI think he's gone before next year. For right or wrong, Holiday's play fell woefully short of Griffin's MVP expectations. I question whether we could get equal value, but I do think he could be part of a package to get a rotation player and a higher draft pick (be it on two team or, more likely, a multi-team deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
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08-12-2020, 04:56 PMPelicanidaeShamit and Mason were discussing this on the last podcast.Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
If you decide to move Jrue, which maybe you do, maybe you don't, how do you go about that move and what do you expect back from it? They said for example what if you try to move Jrue and maybe a pick to get Myles Turner and salary back from Indiana. Now, Myles Turner doesn't fix your problem with having no real primary guard, and he's probably a worse player than Jrue overall when you compare them 1-to-1, but there's a good argument that he's a better fit with Zion offensively, he's still a solid defender (was great but actually took a step back), and is more in line with age.
So do you view that as a win as a trade even if the actual level of talent and ability on your team has gone down, arguably? Maybe. -
08-12-2020, 05:01 PMpelafanaticJrue's value is entirely relative. The situations I'd be keeping an eye on are Boston, Miami, Philly, Denver, Dallas. Those are the teams firmly in the playoff picture that i'm not sure if they have the juice to ever be true contenders.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Boston is the team that I'll be watching the most closely because I love the idea of Jaylen Brown next to Zion and BI. Obviously he won't be available this summer, but there's always a chance the Kemba-Tatum-Brown trio doesn't work out, and Brown would be pretty clearly the odd man out. -
08-12-2020, 05:14 PMPELICANSFANI love Brown, but think the Celtics see him as a cornerstone with Tatum.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelafanatic
For some reason, Indy is the place I could see Jrue going. Lauren is from the area and Jrue considered going there when he was a FA. Griffin may do him a solid if he can work a deal there. Not sure if they would be willing to give up Turner or not for him though. -
08-12-2020, 05:15 PMPelicanidaeBrown would be the odd man out? Not the 6'0 30 year old PG who just got there? Not quite sure I follow that line of thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by pelafanatic
In any case, I don't think Boston would be too interested. They already have a guy who is a good defender, solid but not incredible shooter, who can handle the ball but isn't a lead guard, etc etc. He's called Jaylen Brown and he's way younger than Jrue and cheaper.
Now, if I were going to Boston and trying to wrangle players from them, I'd be after Smart. -
08-12-2020, 05:31 PMPaKwAn
Not sure why indiana would trade for Jrue with Brogdon and Oladipo there already unless they are not confident in oladipo coming back strong after the injury... i would love Turner here cause he would fit well with zion.
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08-12-2020, 05:37 PMPaKwAn
This ain't nba2k...and if booker becomes available, other teams will offer up way more to try and get him... no way will jrue who will be needing a new contract soon fetch in a young player who has been playing bonkers right now.
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08-12-2020, 07:34 PMFuncrusher
I've already gone on record that I think a deal with OKC would be viable. A package like, Jrue & Melli plus a first for CP3 is doable, and I think it's in New Orleans best interest to maximize Zion's skillset (at least, in the early stages of his career) with a lead initiator that can:
A) space the floor with some threshold of a pullup game
B) capably feed Zion in the half court and utilize his insane interior gravity.
As Dae said, Lillard is probably the ideal player in this mold, because he provides so much of A, I mean, 40% on 7 pullup 3s speaks for itself, but Paul, being arguably the greatest mid range shooter of all time, is no slouch either, and conversly, provides so much of B (seriously, we could actually run a PnR without the hedge man just dropping back or the on ball defender going under because there's no threat of the pullup J, *cough,lonzo,cough*, and you'd have someone that can actually make advanced reads in those situations as well, *cough,jrue,cough*).
Paul's not a Jrue level defender anymore (mostly because he can't go all out for 30 min anymore and has to conserve energy) but what he lacks in consistency he can sort of make up for as a kind of pseudo-floor genereal, (simliar to LeBron in the sense that he's like a second coach on defense and is constantly talking, communicating, directing players where to be/rotate) which I think is an underrated quality that Jrue lacks (certainly not the most vocal of teammates). I think he could really help guys like Zion & Ingram in that sense.
Of course, it has to be considered that Paul might not have many prime years left, and the question thus arises in such a scenario where we get Paul, what is our outlook in the next couple of years? Are we just trying to build up competitiveness, or are we looking to full on contend? Personally, my vision is the latter, but I can understand those that think we shouldn't rush the rebuild. Regardless, it's an enticing scenario to me if he's not really sought after this offseason (though he probably will be, I could definitely see the Bucks, Heat, Nuggets going after him), because i don't think it would take many assets to get him. -
08-12-2020, 08:00 PMdonato
Chris Paul is 35 years old. Is the goal to possibly make the second round of the playoffs for a year or two, or is it to win a championship? Hard pass.
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08-12-2020, 08:01 PMAs I See ItThisQuote:
Originally Posted by donato
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08-12-2020, 08:16 PMMichaelMcNamaraJrue's value is directly tied to GiannisQuote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
In a world in which he doesnt sign an extension, 5-6 teams will be doing whatever they need to do to save cap room to make a run for him. If he extends, guys like Jrue and Beal's trade value goes up 150%. If you are in the trade Jrue camp, pray for Giannis to sign an extension this offseason. -
08-12-2020, 08:17 PMFuncrusherI don't think those two things have to be mutually exclusive, though. And as bad as his contract is, he only has two years left. He'll be 36 at the end of it. Will he be drastically worse by that point? He could, but I doubt it (barring injury). Right now, he's a top 10 player. I honestly think it's a pretty low risk move. I don't think it would like, set the franchise back 10 years or something to be in win now mode. We shouldn't be tanking next year anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by donato
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08-12-2020, 08:20 PMPelicanidae
I have mixed views on a CP3 trade.
For the sake of this discussion I'm just assuming OKC would do it; who knows if they actually would, given how well set up they are right now.
Firstly, it's absolutely true that this team needs a vocal leader, and a guy who can seriously, properly run offense. CP3 is clearly still that guy. He can still create for others and for himself at a high level, and he barks all game long every game. Love it or hate it, the man talks and runs his team.
He's still a very high level passer and is still probably one of the top five decision makers in NBA history. Nobody denies, whether they support trading for him or not, that he can set up an offense and run it properly and effectively, and that's still 100% true. The dude just knows exactly what he's doing all the time and it's awesome to watch. And he may be having one of the most all around efficient scoring seasons of all time. So far this year he is 27 points per 100 on the following efficiencies:
0-3 feet: 85.2%
3-10 feet: 50.5%
10-16 feet: 52.5%
16 feet to the line: 52.5%
3pt line: 37%.
That's just dumb. It's just absurd. And it's not like that's an age related thing where he's taking more midrangers than ever; his shots are at pretty much the same distribution as they were 4 or 5 years ago. It's so dumb I can barely even believe it, how effective he's been at just creating his own shots and getting them to drop everywhere, over everyone: only 12.5% of his 2pt shots are assisted for Christ's sake :hihi:
Secondly is the defense. As Funcrusher writes, he's not 100% all the time anymore, but he might be the small-man defender of all time still. There's some competition obviously and I'm not looking to argue but at 35 years of age I still trust him to put in effort and truly defend someone and do it well, which is impressive. His hands are still elite, his awareness is all-time level, and he's always in the right spot. And nobody denies his effort. He would be a fantastic leader for us.
The problems come in a few ways. Firstly is his contract and age; he's 35 and still has 2 years left on his deal after this one, adding up to basically $85m. That's a lot of money. I basically don't care about this too much to be honest. Anyone we acquire of major value will be done by trade anyway so the cap space issue doesn't bother me too much and given his level of play now at 35, I don't see why I should expect it to turn into powder at 36; Stockton was still producing valuable play at age 39 and even 40 by some measures, and while yes CP3 has had more injury problems than he did, his level of play at this age gives some confidence.
The second biggest issue, and the one I actually worry about, is on-ball play. He is a massively on-ball player historically and in order to have Zion hit his full potential, I want him handling the ball a good chunk of the time, and that's without even getting to Ingram who needs it sometimes too. Now, it's true that CP3 did play a lot more off-ball in Houston and has proven that he can do it effectively, but it's also known that he had some issues with the distribution of that ball handling at the time. In fairness, Harden was extremely ball dominant, whereas I can imagine duties being split a tad more equally here in New Orleans, but it's still something to have concerns over. Do you want to bring in someone who has the potential to usurp all lead ballhandling activities completely? That's a real worry.
Overall, I think I probably still go for it, essentially hoping that CP3 will be willing to take a slightly more backseat role from time to time as long as he still gets his chances. It would require trading Jrue pretty much certainly, but as much as I love Jrue I might be willing to accept that due to the personality fit: Jrue is simply too quiet, which works alongside another vocal leader but we don't have one. Maybe Zion will be that in three years, but he's not now. -
08-12-2020, 08:20 PMPelicanidaeThat's pushing it, but top 20? Yeah probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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08-12-2020, 08:23 PMFuncrusher
Would also maybe take a look at Oladipo as well, I think he could really end up breaking out again next year and it's another relatively low risk move (don't know if I'd trade Jrue in that scenario, though)
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08-12-2020, 08:31 PMPelicanidaeI wouldn't really do that, I think. Basically brings the same issues Jrue has (not really a true lead guard, not really a great shooter, etc etc) but with the added risk of massive massive recent injuryQuote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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08-12-2020, 08:38 PMFuncrusherYeah, that's fair. Which goes to show how few and far between primary initiator types are on the (theoretical at this point) market. I can really only think of Paul, Booker (who like you said would prolly require a kings ransom) VanVleet, and after that it's a serious struggle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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08-13-2020, 10:09 AMpelafanaticI mean sure, but explain to me how Boston plans on trading a 30 year old undersized point guard who makes 38 mil in 2022-2023. So they can't move Kemba and the won't move Tatum. We would need to hope that they'd become desperate enough to move Brown prior to guys like Beal, Booker, KAT become available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
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08-13-2020, 11:47 AMPELICANSFANWouldn't add a 1st. CP3 would be great with these young players though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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08-13-2020, 02:04 PMTaker597It took Curry 6 years to win a chip. It won't hurt to have a Vet Leader to help build a foundation. We got plenty of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by donato
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08-13-2020, 04:54 PM13 - 3
No we don’t need Booker we have Jrue Holiday. LOL at that comment.
Too bad Jrue Holiday is not like Devin Booker in the bubble.
No comparison
Booker > Holiday -
08-13-2020, 05:25 PMPelicanidaeCan you point out to me where anyone said that Jrue was better than Devin Booker?Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 - 3