He deserves it. We have been a little hard on him this year but he finally has come in clutch tonight.
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He deserves it. We have been a little hard on him this year but he finally has come in clutch tonight.
Oh I meant clutch with a “C” not “K” :hihi:
I approve this thread :hihi:
I was not expecting this thread to get buried. Interesting.
Consistency,Consistency,Consistency Then I'll appreciate the hell out of him
This 100%. Everyone will agree that Jrue had a phenomenal game last night. Usual great defense, great playmaking and he hit his shots when the game was on the line. But we’ve seen great games from “Good Jrue” before. The question is when are we going to see “Bad Jrue“ again. The shot selection was still questionable last night. A step back 3 is not a high percentage shot, regardless of whether he was hitting them last night.
Would absolutely love to see him continue to gain the consistency, especially in playmaking, but that requires avoiding inexcusable turnovers. Outside of the first possession of the game he was able to do that last night. But we need to see it for more than a single game, or even the span of a few games. At this point, great defense is all we can CONSISTENTLY depend on from Jrue.
it was a family thing....jrue had to get the bragging rights for this season lol....
Congrats Jrue, but yeah, I just don't believe he can become consistent.
Jrue can be a very frustrating player when he is taking bad shots and committing bizarre turnovers. But you also know that when he is right, he can take over a game. I am hopeful that they keep him this offseason, because players like him don't grow on trees.
Jrue for the last 2 years: top 20 player in the NBA
Jrue this year: clearly taken a step back, but still a top 50 player
Half the people on this board: ''Jrue is a bad player the majority of the time, we should definitely trade him, probably for some combination of mediocre players and terrible picks.''
I've seen people saying he has more low scoring games than high ones :hihi: the fact is, he's averaging 20. If you're having far more low scoring games than high ones, you don't average 20.
He's played in 44 games so far this year. He's scored at least 18 points in 28 of them. That's about 64% of his games, well over half. You listen to half the people on this board, you'd think he was averaging 10 points a game on 39% TS% or something.
Jrue is clearly the best defender on our team. Only really Favors comes close. Very arguably our best halfcourt playmaker as well. If not the best, he's unquestionably top 3.
Nobody will deny that Jrue this year is not as good as Jrue last year. But the hate he's received from much of the fanbase is kind of ridiculous.
I just think Jrue lacks that urgency that some players have 24/7. It’s why he tends to be a better postseason player than regular season player. I’m not sure we can afford to have a player that decides to turn it on less than 50% of the time. There are games where he absolutely kills the offensive flow and digs us into a hole. I don’t think that is something that will change after about a decade in the league. If we find good value for him in the offseason, I see no reason why we shouldn’t trade him.
And here we have people abusing generalized season average stats to prove how "good" he has been.
When most of us recognize that in too many big games he seems to be at his worst. And his variance of performance is just too damn wide. He is literally feast or famine.
Thats why in my industry we focus on medians, not averages.
His consistency is the issue. And even when he might have a good game, he will still dribble the ball off his foot, throw it out of bounds, or get the ball stolen when the team needs a good possession late in a game. This has happened far too often than it should.
This is the problem and frankly it is just the player Jrue is. Fans in Philly were all saying the same things.
Yeah, this is what I mean.
Jrue Holiday appreciation thread: not even a page deep and it's become the "here's why Jrue Holiday is actually garbage" thread.
Ridiculous.
I’m just not convinced of his fit on a young team. He would be infinitely more valuable to a veteran side like the Clippers, Sixers, Lakers, Rockets or Jazz. Hell, I think he could make a hell of a combo with CP3 in OKC. Gentry has never helped him to be fair.
You’re ridiculous. NOBODY here is calling him garbage or saying we should trade him for scraps. They are just pointing out some very valid and repeatedly proven shortcomings of our highest paid, most veteran player and rightfully asking whether he has a future on this team (whether that is a trade in the offseason if the value is there or not re-signing him when his contract is up).
I’m already on record as saying that the weak FA class this summer will likely lead to a good trade offer and I’m all for moving Jrue if that happens.
I see him as the final piece in a title winning side. Notice how in his last season when he was at his best on the offensive side of the floor, he had several players with an inside out game and a reliable when healthy floor general in Elfrid. That doesn’t mean that Jrue is the 4th/5th best offensive player on the team. It means that he thrives when he isn’t relied upon to be a creator or a no. 1/2 option. We’ve discussed this at length before Dae- he expends too much energy mentally on the defensive side of the ball. He isn’t the best leader and until we get that same type of setup we had last year Jrue won’t be nearly as effective. I think he will be highly coveted in the offseason.
The reason Jrue has only been an all star once his career is he is inconsistent. Plain and simple.
This is what sets him from a B player to an A.
Sure, but who, might I ask, is expecting him to be an A player? He's our third option on offense. What he's doing is perfectly good for a third option, and most third scoring options don't also happen to be all-league lockdown 1-4 defenders, which Jrue is.
People critique Jrue as if he's supposed to be our star. Maybe they just bought into Griff's MVP talk too much and are using that metric to grade him by, idk, but in reality, Jrue's been fine in the role he's supposed to play. Not as good as he could be, sure, not as consistent as he could be, sure, but the shtick he's taken has been completely out of whack with reality.
Like I said, people acting like Gary Harris and Denver's FRP is a fair return for him in a trade. That alone tells you how much disrespect he's been getting from some people.
Sure, but again, that's not the issue. People are criticising him as if he's the first option on offense, which he just isn't. He's the third option now that Zion's back, and was still only 2nd while Zion was injured. If there was no other volume scorer on the team and this was all he could do, then sure, he'd be totally disappointing as your number 1 guy. But there are other volume scorers on this team, and he's the third option and he's absolutely, 100%, demonstrably fine at it.
Sure, but that's what I meant when I said half the board was saying we should trade him for mediocre players and low value picks. That was a trade offer that was floating around, and people on this board were in for it. Again, not everyone (some people wanted MPJ as well, despite Denver saying in advance that they were not moving him), but a bunch of people. That's the issue.
If people want to trade Jrue because age, contract, or fit, then that's fine. We can have that discussion; hell, in the Trade Jrue thread, I had that discussion. But a lot of people are acting like he's a scrub and that we should trade him for yesterday's leftovers, and it's absurd.
You say that he’s the third option, but the reality is that far too often the ball has been in Jrue’s hands in crunch time and he has failed to deliver. The great players in this league step up their game in crunch time. Jrue makes some great defensive plays in crunch time, but far too many critical possessions end with lackadaisical turnovers and blown layups by Jrue. If you’ve watched enough Pelicans games the past 5+ years, you would know exactly what I and others here are saying.
I've watched every single Pelicans game in the last 5 years :hihi:
I'm not saying Jrue doesn't have flaws. He does. If he had no flaws he'd be the MVP and DPOY front runner and we'd be a much better team. Nobody denies that Jrue shouldn't have the ball in his hands as the primary creator. Pelicans fans, on this board and elsewhere, have been saying as much for the last several years. As much as Rondo and Payton were not great players, they had a value beyond themselves because they allowed Jrue to play much more off the ball on offense and to run the offense at times in the half-court, which diminished his responsibility.
This year, we do not have a PG who is willing and able to do that. The best we have is Lonzo, who is not a threat in the half-court the vast majority of the time. Which puts all of that pressure back on Jrue to create and handle, and lo and behold, he's not great at it; which we all knew years ago, and which is why his best 2 years came when he was next to a real point guard. I have no idea why it is that I seem to be the only person who acknowledges this, rather than just deciding that Jrue is some kind of universal chump.
He has a lot of responsibility in this side on the ball though because of the lack of spacing and lead guard play atm. Lonzo is still learning on the job and Ingram can function as a point forward, but people sag off of Zion because of his lack of willingness/ability to shoot. He is certainly not the best fit atm and I’d find it hard to argue otherwise until we get more spacing and Lonzo improves in all areas or we get a ready lead guard.
I am surprised he did not want to go to a contending team, but I am happy he wants to stay for now.
Lol at comparing Jrue to Judge. Jrue has lost games all by himself by sloppy passing and bad shot selection. Don’t need that with so many young players on the team, especially on a consistent basis. He has a lot of talent but until i see otherwise; he seems to be a free spirit type who picks and chooses when he goes all in on that talent. Like for instance playing against his Brother last night.
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Measuring Jrue with stats is the most misleading thing you can do , he could have 35pts 10 steals and have 2 straight TO's and miss 2 game winning FT's or not call a TO when he can't get an inbound pass and we lose the game . The ONLY thing you can ever count on with JH is good to great D . And you're putting words in people's mouths saying we are calling JH garbage , no one has. For me at this time on this team I'd rather have a consistently good to very good player than than one that is either crisis or carnival
Yeah, this is what I mean by ridiculous standards and undue blame.
If anyone ever wonders what I mean by people judging Jrue as if he was supposed to be our #1 guy, just read this sentence in bold over again.
We are imagining a hypothetical game where Jrue has 35 points and 10 steals that was still somehow within 2 points in the final moments, and we're blaming him for losing it.
You are missing the point , It's not what you do to get there it's how you finish If a race horse was 5 lengths ahead and then stopped running he still has lost. It's like having a big lead and blowing it . JH has done some bonehead things to lose games all by himself and some have come in games that he was not on fire. Like i said Consistency,Consistency,Consistency and he has been far from it . Nothing is more frustrating to fans than his roller coaster ride
If you are comparing Pete to JH then your delusional. JH in his wildest dreams could not be the offensive weapon Pete was , Pete was people that changed basketball. He was ALWAYS on BAD teams . Only thing JH can do that Pete couldn't was play D . Pete's BB IQ was off the charts, JH has many bonehead moments
No way I’m getting into a side debate on “Pistol” Pete and I don’t even want to scrap about Jrue who is a high value NBA player and a great asset to the Pels. He is, however, a shooting guard who can’t shoot that well and that, along with his age and contract, make him a less than ideal fit going forward. What the Pels need at SG is 3rd option who spaces the floor and shoots 40+% from the arc and 80+% from the line—basically a younger, bigger J.J. Redick.
Jrue is a good player and when you see him close a game like he did last night against the Pacers going 6-6 from the line and draining contested 3-pointers, you see a player you can start to dream on, a guy who could be a Steve Nash or league MVP candidate as Griff touted him coming into the season. But there is an old expression that a person is not who they were the last time you saw them; they’re who they have been all along. It’s unrealistic to expect Holiday to turn into a knockdown shooter or clutch closer at this stage of his career. He is who he has been all along—a top notch defender, a crafty scorer and a mediocre (by league standards) outside shooter and foul shooter. For the Pels to reach their full potential, you’ll need to trade out Holiday’s skill set for one that compliments our young core a little better.
This statement makes everything else that you ever say on this forum irrelevant . This, quite possibly is the most ill informed statement ever uttered on this forum.
Pete Maravich is classified in the "TOP 50 players of all time", voted on by NBA players, coaches et al.
Good Lord !
Ok, a few things here- 1) I followed Maravich through LSU (35 miles from my home) (the GREATEST college Scorer ever). I'm certain that you never watched a Maravich game.
2) Followed him when he was with the Hawks (which was a horrible situation for Maravich- Team (player) dynamics. Averaged 26 PPG.
3) Then was sent to an expansion Jazz to sell tickets (with a HORRIBLE team) for 4 1/2 yrs.
4) The best ball handler in NBA. Until he blew his knee out on a between the legs half court pass.
5) Averaged 27ppg on 44.1% shooting w/ no 3pt line.
6) His only fault was disengagement due to mental demons.
7) o yeah, he is in the Hall of Fame.
8) When engaged, he was the best COMBO (ball handler & shooter) on the court.
Jrue Holiday has played with some pretty good players.
Maravich played with guys that couldn't make an NBA squad today, while he was in New Orleans.
Literally everything you said after this became void. I'm up for arguments and debates, everyone on the board knows that, but I'm not going to get into a spat with someone who makes this argument. I have watched Maravich play. Do yourself a favour and maybe don't assume that the only way someone could disagree with you is if they are arguing from a position of complete ignorance.
Pistol Pete was arguably a better college player than an NBA player, so yeah I'd totally agree that he was the greatest college scorer ever. If not the greatest, then I'm not really sure who would be better.
The fact is that all I said was the totally innocuous statement ''he also had flaws'' and you decided to list a bunch of stuff that I already knew to try and discredit me. So am I to assume that you think Pistol Pete didn't have any flaws, and that he was a perfect player? Because that's a ridiculously, scorching hot take.
I did NOT say - (watched him play) -I said (watch a game) . Big difference. I know you aren't old enough to have ever watched him play a live game of basketball.
I'm not sure if you conflated on purpose or just misunderstood .
So, tell me- what Pete Maravich game have you watched ?
Your "complete ignorance" point is opinion.
One would argue that ignorance has no gradation.
I didn't assume anything. I know, by your age, that you never watched Matavich play an entire game.
Your innocuous statement was basically a non sequitur w/in the response I had made.
Note: There is Nothing that I stated about Maravich that you can dispute based on what knowledge you have of him.
My statement, too, was innocuous.
I said that you had never watched Maravich game.
It became a sore point when you to offense to something I NEVER said. I never said that you didn't see him play.
You do know that because we live in the age of the Internet, I can watch full games that happened before I was born? Pretty easily. Look, I'll show you:
Just for a couple of examples.
I fully concede that I haven't watched as much Pistol Pete as you probably have (although it's worth nothing that I've also probably watched these games more recently than you have, and therefore might have less of a rose-tinted-glasses view on them), but that's very different from ''you never watched Maravich play an entire game.''