Knowing we aren't anywhere close to winning a championship (and likely will never be), the headaches Zion brings, along with media denigration and souring of other players' perceptions of the franchise, makes it almost not worth having him, in my opinion.
What is the best realistic package the Pels could receive for Zion, and would you take it?
Zion Trade
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10-19-2021, 10:51 AMb_l_pZion Trade
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10-19-2021, 11:09 AMAs I See It
To New Orleans: Cade Cunningham, Jerami Grant (after extension), and '23 Detroit First Rounder (unprotected)
For
To Detroit: Zion, Temple, Sato -
10-19-2021, 11:47 AMclark griswald
in a heart beat!! but first rounder would have to be 2022. Zion is going to keep refracturing his foot like Yow Ming. its inevitable
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10-19-2021, 11:48 AMColoradoCajun
Zion to Phoenix. Ayton to Nola.
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10-19-2021, 12:04 PMFuncrusherare you serious?Quote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-19-2021, 12:05 PMDarkhorse985NahQuote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoCajun
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10-19-2021, 12:06 PMDarkhorse985Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
I’d take this all day. -
10-19-2021, 12:08 PMFuncrusheryeah that's actually not bad. doubt either team bites even in a pure hypothetical thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse985
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10-19-2021, 12:12 PMb_l_pAbsolutely. I'd rather be average with likeable guys, than pretty good with a diva player who has one foot out the door and brings a blizzard of negative media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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10-19-2021, 12:18 PMFuncrusherhow is Zion a diva player? there are a lot of things you can say about Zion, some of them not good, but what has he actually done to be considered a diva? Just be kind of quiet and not really engage with the media? I'm genuinely asking a question.Quote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-19-2021, 01:05 PMPELICANSFANNot even close to enough. Pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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10-19-2021, 01:06 PMPELICANSFANBased on what? Do you even know what kind of foot fracture Ming had and how it compares to the one Zion has?Quote:
Originally Posted by clark griswald
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10-19-2021, 01:34 PMAs I See ItWe've gone the 'Super-Star Route' three times in the last 15 years with absolutely nothing to show for it. And 'Super-Star # 3' is more super-hype to date, than genuine super-star. His talent may be apparent, but his drive is stuck in reverse.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Why?
There are a myriad of suppositions, but if you peel back the layers of his rind (his protectors and enablers), you'll realize that the desire to excel is not an external trait driven by outside force. Rather, it's an internal one that requires and internal commitment, determination, fortitude, and discipline. Super-Star # 3 lacks all four.
Of the tree Pelican 'Super-Stars' only Chris Paul had all four.
'That's All Folks' didn't and 'The Incredible Bulk' certainly doesn't have them either.
Give me players who are hungry, not players who are fat (either in the mind or in the body or both). -
10-19-2021, 01:49 PMb_l_pThrough his family, he's already sending smoke signals that he doesn't want to be in NOLA. How many explicit instances do you need to realize this story will end just like all the other super-stars'? I would bet he takes the QOQuote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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10-19-2021, 02:24 PMPELICANSFANSo you would dump a guy that, regardless of your opinion, is seen as a generational talent for an above average player on a bad team in Grant and a yet unproven Cunningham and a 1st? I think that if we were to trade Zion, we should be able to get much more than that haul (at a minimum, additional 1sts).Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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10-19-2021, 02:26 PMPELICANSFANWould you really be willing to bet a lot on that? What exactly did his family say that gives you this indication or are you relying solely on bloggers' "sources"?Quote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-19-2021, 02:32 PMFuncrusherlmao he's not taking the QO, regardless of whether he wants to be in New Orleans or not. Luka might not even want to be in Dallas either, but he signed his extension as soon as possible. If he ends up taking the QO, that would actually be unprecedent and not an ending comparable to any other superstar in history, so....Quote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-19-2021, 02:35 PMFuncrusherno use arguing with him man. He's turning on a guy that's still only 21 and comparing him results wise to players that left NO when they were in their mid-twenties...Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
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10-19-2021, 02:36 PMFuncrusherHe's 21 lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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10-19-2021, 03:09 PMb_l_pLol he's not arguing with me, I didn't say anything about Cunningham. If he takes the QO, he leaves Nola. AD left Nola. CP3 left nola.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
And to PelicansFan, willing to bet a lot, because the reporting was from Will Guillory, not a blogger, and has been echoed by other big name reporters. -
10-19-2021, 03:11 PMb_l_pIf it's that unlikely just because it is unprecedented, what kind of odds are you willing to give me that it happens? We can DM our personal info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher
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10-19-2021, 03:19 PMAs I See ItFor this purpose only, I'll cede you your 'generational-talent moniker, and ask you this.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Since high school, has this generational talent consistently translated to the court. Further, tomorrow night, stop by and visit me in Section 102. Together we can cheer on the Generational Talent as he begins his third season in the league as he did his first...on the bench. -
10-19-2021, 04:09 PMnew city champ
Zion is a generational talent as we saw when he was healthy last year. Sure he has holes in his game, but so does every star at 20-years-old. No reason to think he won't to continue to get better and add to his game.
Even with that though, I've always had concerns about him being here and was pretty subdued when we landed the first pick while everyone was celebrating like we'd already won a championship. The first reason has nothing to do with him. I've just seen how small market team's can get crucified when they land a mega star. I never like the narrative when LeBron was in Cleveland when it was always about what the team was doing for him rather than what he was doing for the team. We are well into the same dynamic here and I really understood what Griffin meant when he discussed how much he disliked having to build a team to suit James rather than growing it organically.
Second, I was legit worried about Zion's size and an 82-game schedule. Even before he blew through his shoe at Duke I thought his realistic chance for a great NBA career depended on his playing weight dropping by 20-25 pounds, like Barkley's did coming out of Auburn. From the jump there is was no sign of this happening with Zion and there still isn't. The foot, the knee (twice), the hamstring and missing more than 40% of games in his first two years doesn't bode well to me for what lies ahead if he can't reshape his body. I'm not making any kind of moral judgement. Just a practical one. It's physics. He won't last at that weight. You can already see the problems and he's not even 22 yet.
Third, he's a tricky player to build around for all his talents. Maybe he'll become a shooter, but he isn't yet. He's a bull in the lane, but still only 6'6" and can struggle against team's with size. And he's very ball dominant soaking up a lot of attempts. None of this is fatal. He's a good passer and the gravity he exerts should open up tons of great looks for 3 point shooters. We just need to commit to building that team. Of course, if he's hurt then that model doesn't really work as well.
The best case for Zion is for him to play at around 260-pounds and use his quickness and explosiveness to force teams to pack the paint. If he becomes an 80%+ FT shooter, he can punish teams for fouling him. If the Pels get enough shooting, we can punish teams for packing the paint against him. And if he can stay healthy, the Pels may be able to build a contender around him. But that's a fair number of maybes... -
10-19-2021, 04:37 PMPELICANSFANAgain, any proof or just a report from a "source?" Guillory is a good reporter, but has yet to prove he has any reliable inside sources or information. He usually piggy backs on other reports rather than breaking anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-19-2021, 04:39 PMPELICANSFANI am not the one who deemed him a generational talent. That comes from experts in the field of the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by As I See It
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10-19-2021, 05:06 PMAs I See ItI don't disagree with you or them. Perhaps he has more talent in his 300 ponds than anybody ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
I'm only saying that talent is useless if he can't consistently get on the court or IF HE IS NOT DRIVEN TO MAKE HIS BODY NBA-WORTHY. -
10-19-2021, 05:20 PMHerbJonesFan
FWIW - Herb Jones is my favorite player ever because of his effort and willingness to do whatever it takes. I will always root for a guy like that over the uber talented guy who relies on that talent to get by, but doesnt do all the extra stuff. And I wasn't a Pelicans fan last year, but I watched some games and Zion annoyed me because he seemed to try so hard when he had the ball or he could get an offensive rebound, but it was like 10% that effort when he was on D and even less on offense when he didn't have the ball. I will never love a guy like that, and I am not surprised that a few of you guys are already annoyed with him
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10-19-2021, 05:21 PMb_l_pIf your argument is that "sources" should always be disregarded if there is no first-hand proof, than I have some bad news about pretty much all of journalismQuote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
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10-19-2021, 06:12 PMFuncrusherhe says about one of the best off-ball threats in the league and arguably the best as a big/forward :hihi:Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbJonesFan
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10-19-2021, 06:16 PMFuncrusherAnd i wasn't talking about you, but regardless there's literally no way he takes the QO, and I feel like you know that. I read Will, and I have no idea where your getting this info that Will thinks Zion will opt out of a max rookie extension, particularly when he's only been healthy for like one year in the NBA. Frankly, if Zion does that he's a ********ing idiot, and I'd rather someone that dumb just not be on the team. Suffice to say, I don't think Zion has poprocks for brainsQuote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-19-2021, 06:21 PMPELICANSFANYou cannot claim that the parents are sending "smoke signals" without them ever saying one thing to the topic. What have they said or done that you equate to them sending smoke signals that he wants out of NOLA? Was it the effort they went through to get approvals to upgrade the expensive home they purchased in NOLA? Or did a blogger say they do not like it here?Quote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-19-2021, 06:24 PMFuncrusherodds? seriously, lmao? It's not going to happen dude, that's a guaranteeQuote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-19-2021, 08:32 PMSeapeaNOLA
Not even a game in. The season hasn't even started and we're doing this.
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10-20-2021, 12:46 PMDroopyDawg
I see a lot of denial in this thread... but it'll be interesting to see where this all goes.
I for one don't believe Zion wants to be here. Whether its his relationship with Griff, or his desire to be in a bigger market... I have no idea. But something just doesn't seem right with this dude.
I'll continue to root for the kid but I'll keep an eye on his situation.
Quote:
Rival Execs Monitoring Zion Williamson-New Orleans Pelicans Relationship
There's a strong belief in league circles that the Pelicans were unaware of that procedure until Williamson reported to New Orleans ahead of media day, although one team source contacted by B/R maintained the Pelicans and Williamson were aligned on the injury's timeline.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...s-relationship
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10-20-2021, 01:48 PMFuncrusherdenial... what are you talking about man? Saying he won't take the QO is denial? jesus christQuote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
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10-20-2021, 03:11 PMPELICANSFANAnother trash article with no facts. Anyone can write articles with phantom sources' opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by DroopyDawg
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10-20-2021, 04:14 PMpelicanchamp
I hope Zion gets back in shape and gets healthy. I won?t trade Zion. He has to keep his weight down and if he can?t do it then I?ll tell him he can play fat and if he break his legs that will be on him. He could ruin his own career.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
10-20-2021, 04:40 PMb_l_pYour posts in this thread remind me of Shamit Dua's pod toward the end of last year, when he was like, "I don't believe there are any issues between the players and SVG. It's just sources and bull, but they don't know what's going on in the clubhouse." And then WHAM, it was alllll true.Quote:
Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN
Your argument sounds like if 3+ unrelated people mention that your girlfriend has been hanging out with another guy, but she denies it, and so you accuse the other people of being liars. -
10-20-2021, 04:58 PMPELICANSFANIf they all got their information lazily from the same "source" and kept retelling it, then yeah, I might.Quote:
Originally Posted by b_l_p
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10-21-2021, 07:28 AMDroopyDawgI actually agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcrusher