2022-23 Offseason Thread

The season is over. What a season it was, from the awful start to the ferocious clobbering of teams through the Play In to force a playoff series. We then took the league best Suns to 6 games, and could easily have gone to 7 or even won if there had been just a few shots go differently. It was close and we gave them all they could handle.

But now it's over and it's the offseason.

What changes does the team need, in your view? Do we keep the Lakers pick or trade it? Any trade targets, or possible free agents you have your eyes on (with or without concern for the cap, your choice)?

All the ideas can come out. Positive thoughts from a positive season.

Laker 1st for Hart and dump Graham, as long as not top 4

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Laker 1st for Hart and dump Graham, as long as not top 4

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You can't trade the #8 pick for Hart ! Forget Hart!
Use the Lakers pick on another young stud.
Trade Jax, Graham, Temple, and Kira combined salaries + future pick(s) for another real player or two.

Salary is kind of bloated.... $7 million under the Luxury tax line right before Zion's extension.





Get a handle on the Zion situation first and foremost.


Herb doing his thing everyday to get better.

Trey needs to be working on his handles and shot creation in the offseason.

Hayes should probably not get into legal trouble so we can move him

Graham... Please don't pull a John Wall and get injured.

Draft is probably Mathurin, Sharpe, or shoot up in the lottery to get Smith

Figure out a way to offload Graham and Temple without costing picks. If you can get invovled in a trade to salary dump. please. If we had to attached Kira and Hayes. I would be okay with that. I hope to keep atleast one of them.

After looking at vet bigs FA. It's hot garbage.

Trade market Big. Also hot garbage, but there is Myles Turner on a rebuilding Pacer team with value at an all-time low because he only played 40 games the past two years.


So, I think no matter what... I don't think we can fix the defensive big position. Which is a problematic situation.I do want to get Jonas minutes a bit under controlled to keep him fresh and not caught in so many mismatches or run him into the ground.

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Originally Posted by redrum

You can't trade the #8 pick for Hart ! Forget Hart!
Use the Lakers pick on another young stud.
Trade Jax, Graham, Temple, and Kira combined salaries + future pick(s) for another real player or two.

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Hart might be the most overrated Pelican of the last 5 years.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Laker 1st for Hart and dump Graham, as long as not top 4

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You Aussie are some strange folks.... queenslands or Wales... I forget which one is the weird ones... I think it's cane toad country that's weird folk.

Luka is flopping all over and the Jazz are getting the Pels treatment. This is absolutely astonishing how crazy this is. Both games have been turned from the refs. That Donaghy documentary will be very interesting.

If the Pels can get a PG, they are going to be lethal. I really want Brunson.

Wendell Carter Jr is another name and Orlando is really schizo when it comes to roster management. So... he could be available.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

You Aussie are some strange folks.... queenslands or Wales... I forget which one is the weird ones... I think it's cane toad country that's weird folk.

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They are both weirdo's.

I'm from Melbourne, the best city in Australia.

I think it?s pretty obvious after the sloppy turnovers that did us in this game we need a facilitator at PG. Jose can start in my eyes but would prefer him off the bench or starting against the top points as needed. We need Lonzo Ball basically


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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I think it?s pretty obvious after the sloppy turnovers that did us in this game we need a facilitator at PG. Jose can start in my eyes but would prefer him off the bench or starting against the top points as needed. We need Lonzo Ball basically


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over 2/3 the league needs a great facilitator... Malcolm Brogdon is a name, but he should a be considered a back up at this point due to injury concerns and ridiculously expensive

And don't mention Ricky Rubio.

You're already paying CJ 30 million and he's gonna have an offseason to build himself to being a full time point. So, give it a chance. He literally came in and posted career best assist numbers at 6. Let's see what he does over the off season. I think he can easily be a 7.5 assist guy next season with a real offseason plan.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

They are both weirdo's.

I'm from Melbourne, the best city in Australia.

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I've got family in Perth who might dispute that

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Hart might be the most overrated Pelican of the last 5 years.

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I don't know. One particular Pelican Player who has played less than 1/2 of his team's games over the last three years and commands superstar status is giving 'lowly' JHart a run for his money, regardless of what your Ouija Board of numbers say. What was that player's Win Share this year for the Pelicans? I bet JHart's was better and he was traded mid-season.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

over 2/3 the league needs a great facilitator... Malcolm Brogdon is a name, but he should a be considered a back up at this point due to injury concerns.

And don't mention Ricky Rubio.

You're already paying CJ 30 million and he's gonna have an offseason to build himself to being a full time point. So, give it a chance. He literally came in and posted career best assist numbers at 6. Let's see what he does over the off season. I think he can easily be a 7.5 assist guy next season with a real offseason plan.

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So are you saying lineup next year should be CJ/ Herb/ Ingram/Zion/ JV?

Who has the handles in that lineup? Perfect starting core except for handles and facilitating. Just something to think about. You want Herb in lineup for perimeter defense alone. Who do you sacrifice for more ?second team? minutes so that we can get some more turnoverless turns?


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Originally Posted by Sleeper

So are you saying lineup next year should be CJ/ Herb/ Ingram/Zion/ JV?

Who has the handles in that lineup? Perfect starting core except for handles and facilitating. Just something to think about. You want Herb in lineup for perimeter defense alone. Who do you sacrifice for more ?second team? minutes so that we can get some more turnoverless turns?


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Line up are gonna be match-up dependent.

Zion avg 7.2 assist a game
Bi avg 5.6 assist a game
Cj avg 5.8 assist a game

How much more facilitating do you need? CJ is moving to point so.. his number are gonna jump up at least 1.2

Keep Lakers pick.

Basic pick and rolls gave the Pelicans fits in the playoffs and with Zion, defending is going to get even harder. I’d really like to just keep throwing switchable two way players at the wall and seeing what sticks. Good drafting philosophy to target those anyway.

If anyone would give anything of value for Jax, I hope the Pelicans bite.

Don’t expect too many changes though.

We are legit $7 million from becoming a tax team.

I get what you want... You want a CP3 Point God. Well, there is none available. There just isn't. You asking for something that doesn't exist in much supply and there is no available.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Line up are gonna be match-up dependent.

Zion avg 7.2 assist a game
Bi avg 5.6 assist a game
Cj avg 5.8 assist a game

How much more facilitating do you need?

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Not just facilitating. Moving the ball up the court and not turning it over. I mean the referenced players can do it 8/10 times but it gets real during playoffs. We need a playoffs Rando.


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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Not just facilitating. Moving the ball up the court and not turning it over. I mean the referenced players can do it 8/10 times but it gets real during playoffs. We need a playoffs Rando.


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There is no playoff Rondo. You're asking for something that doesn't exist anymore. If it did exist... it's not available.

It's not like we didn't try.

We got Ball and he couldn't run halfcourt.
We draft Kira and he plays too timid and never clicks.

You can't just wake up and find a point god. They are only a handful of point gods that exist in a given generation.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

There is no playoff Rondo. You're asking for something that doesn't exist anymore. If it did exist... it's not available.

It's not like we didn't try.

We got Ball and he couldn't run halfcourt.
We draft Kira and he plays too timid and never clicks.

You can't just wake up and find a point god. They are only a handful of point gods that exist in a given generation.

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Jose is almost exactly that as UDFA. Can?t say they don?t exist. I?m ok with Jose being that but hard to bench CJ/ Herb/ Ingram/ and Zion for him


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Utah Jazz are about to blow that team up. Anyone you want ?

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Originally Posted by AtlPelsFan

Utah Jazz are about to blow that team up. Anyone you want ?

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Conley


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Originally Posted by AtlPelsFan

Utah Jazz are about to blow that team up. Anyone you want ?

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I would trade back in draft and get Conley. Then get Zach Collins in FA.


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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Jose is almost exactly that as UDFA. Can?t say they don?t exist. I?m ok with Jose being that but hard to bench CJ/ Herb/ Ingram/ and Zion for him


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Jose isn't, tho. I don't understand your logic if you think Jose is a point God. He had 9 assist this whole series. Jose is probably 2 or 3 years from every being a true point.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Not just facilitating. Moving the ball up the court and not turning it over. I mean the referenced players can do it 8/10 times but it gets real during playoffs. We need a playoffs Rando.


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Couldn't agree more.

In the '17-'18 season, Rajon Rondo averaged 12.2 Assists in the playoffs (nine games). Because he was on the ball, Jrue Holiday averaged a career high 23.7 points in the playoffs. A Rajon Rondo is exactly what this team needs. He would get Zion off....BI off....JV off....CJ off....TM3 off. You already have premium stuff; now you need a swizzle stick to stir the drink.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Jose isn't, tho. I don't understand your logic if you think Jose is a point God. He had 9 assist this whole series. Jose is probably 2 or 3 years from every being a true point.

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I was thinking more handles but you?re right. He gets stuck


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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

They are both weirdo's.

I'm from Melbourne, the best city in Australia.

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I recently learned about Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant.

Yeah yall got our Florida weirdos beat by a country mile.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Couldn't agree more.

In the '17-'18 season, Rajon Rondo averaged 11.2 Assists in the playoffs (nine games). Because he was on the ball, Jrue Holiday averaged a career high 23.7 points in the playoffs. A Rajon Rondo is exactly what this team needs. He would get Zion off....BI off....JV off....CJ off....TM3 off. You already have premium stuff; now you need a swizzle stick to stir the drink.

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I agree. Can?t thumbs up so consider this as just that?.


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Definitely could use an active big that can defend in space and rim protect.

I'd be willing to see what kind of growth we get out of Jaxson and roll with Nance for another year. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade then upgrade.

Shooting still needs to be addressed. But then again if you can get 60+ games out of Zion, it's not as big of a need. CJ is a shooter.

I just want to wait and see where this lottery pick lands. Not totally against Mathurin if it remains at 8. But there are probably better options if the pick is moved.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I recently learned about Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant.

Yeah yall got our Florida weirdos beat by a country mile.

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Look up Snowtown, Katherine Knight, and Tracey Wiggington for more Australian true crime weirdness.

Florida remains unbeaten though. Ted Bundy did some of his killings there, The Gainesville Ripper, Aileen Wuornos, the dude who went around stealing toilets from people's houses.

Not that Louisiana is devoid of its own stories. Ronald Dominique, Nathan Code, Derrick Todd Lee, Sean Gillis, Russell Ellwood, the Axeman of New Orleans - hell, even John Muhammad, the D.C. Sniper, was born in Baton Rouge.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Definitely could use an active big that can defend in space and rim protect.

I'd be willing to see what kind of growth we get out of Jaxson and roll with Nance for another year. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade then upgrade.

Shooting still needs to be addressed. But then again if you can get 60+ games out of Zion, it's not as big of a need. CJ is a shooter.

I just want to wait and see where this lottery pick lands. Not totally against Mathurin if it remains at 8. But there are probably better options if the pick is moved.

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If I knew for sure that he wasn't broken between the ears, Ben Simmons would be a perfect fit for this team. You don't need his offense, though he is a lifetime .560 shooter (15.9 per game). But he is a premiere facilitator and lockdown defender. Could you imagine him and Herb running at guard together? Nobody would break through that 'mouse trap'. He could also back up Zion at the 4 as he has averaged eight rebounds a game while playing down low. Now the three-ball isn't his game, but it wouldn't have to be.

Anyone watched Minnesota? I'd be interested in Zion + JV for KAT and Vanderbilt

KAT
Vanderbilt
BI
Herb
CJ

Just a thought, super unlikely though.

If Zion signs his extension, which he will, I really hope that the Pels dont do anything other than signing their 2022 pick and adding two 2 way guys.

Then before the trade deadline look to move Hayes, Graham and Temple.

That's 23.5M to use on a stud or 2 good role players for the playoffs in 2023.

Anyone have an idea as to what Zions contract will look like per year if he gets the max?

BPA at 8th or whatever the pick will be.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Anyone have an idea as to what Zions contract will look like per year if he gets the max?

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Luka's rookie extension, which starts next season, is 5 years/$207m
Trae's, which starts next season as well, is 5yr/$175m, with an option for bonuses up to $207m if he makes All NBA

So basically, think something in the region of 5yr/$207m. Which is about $40m a year.

Personally, if I were in Griff's position, I'd see what Zion's camp requests in terms of their own situation and potentially tailor my response to that. Like, if he wants a 5th year player option and a 15% trade kicker (both of which Luka has, for example) then I'd see if I could get him to take 5yr/$175m with bonuses for minimum games played. Like, if he plays at least 70 games per season it goes up to the $207m.

Alternatively, if he's willing to just take the deal flat - no trade kicker, no player option - I'd just offer the full thing. Unfortunately that's the market for the rookie extensions at the minute: Michael Porter Jr just got a 5yr/$172m with it going up to $207m if he gets all NBA, and his health issues are even worse than Zion's.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Luka's rookie extension, which starts next season, is 5 years/$207m
Trae's, which starts next season as well, is 5yr/$175m, with an option for bonuses up to $207m if he makes All NBA

So basically, think something in the region of 5yr/$207m. Which is about $40m a year.

Personally, if I were in Griff's position, I'd see what Zion's camp requests in terms of their own situation and potentially tailor my response to that. Like, if he wants a 5th year player option and a 15% trade kicker (both of which Luka has, for example) then I'd see if I could get him to take 5yr/$175m with bonuses for minimum games played. Like, if he plays at least 70 games per season it goes up to the $207m.

Alternatively, if he's willing to just take the deal flat - no trade kicker, no player option - I'd just offer the full thing. Unfortunately that's the market for the rookie extensions at the minute: Michael Porter Jr just got a 5yr/$172m with it going up to $207m if he gets all NBA, and his health issues are even worse than Zion's.

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Man... I'm kind of worried about this contract extension going to toxic, now.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Man... I'm kind of worried about this contract extension going to toxic, now.

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This is just how rookie extensions are now, in a lot of cases. Like I said, this is the kind of money you have to pay for MPJ, who is not as good as Zion and has worse health issues. It's also what you have to pay for SGA, who is also getting this level of deal, and is - again - not as good as Zion (though his health has been better of course).

Even the good deals are pretty expensive; Mikal Bridges rookie extension for Phoenix is $23m a year and that's considered a bargain in today's NBA. To be the 3rd or 4th best player on their team.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Man... I'm kind of worried about this contract extension going to toxic, now.

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If he isn't 'all in' he will be traded before it becomes toxic.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Luka's rookie extension, which starts next season, is 5 years/$207m
Trae's, which starts next season as well, is 5yr/$175m, with an option for bonuses up to $207m if he makes All NBA

So basically, think something in the region of 5yr/$207m. Which is about $40m a year.

Personally, if I were in Griff's position, I'd see what Zion's camp requests in terms of their own situation and potentially tailor my response to that. Like, if he wants a 5th year player option and a 15% trade kicker (both of which Luka has, for example) then I'd see if I could get him to take 5yr/$175m with bonuses for minimum games played. Like, if he plays at least 70 games per season it goes up to the $207m.

Alternatively, if he's willing to just take the deal flat - no trade kicker, no player option - I'd just offer the full thing. Unfortunately that's the market for the rookie extensions at the minute: Michael Porter Jr just got a 5yr/$172m with it going up to $207m if he gets all NBA, and his health issues are even worse than Zion's.

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You also have to be careful.
Its a bit of a slap in the face if he is getting paid 40M per and he doesn't even play and BI is only getting 30M per.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

If he isn't 'all in' he will be traded before it becomes toxic.

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Maybe Griff is gonna lowball him so he can do that.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

You also have to be careful.
Its a bit of a slap in the face if he is getting paid 40M per and he doesn't even play and BI is only getting 30M per.

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Sadly, I don't think you'll have much success convincing someone to be paid under market value for the sake of someone else's ego.

The issue about him potentially not playing is why I would like, if possible, to get some protections in there. Minimum games played, for example. Hell, Memphis has a term in Jaren Jackson's contract that allows them to flat out waive him and void the contract if his knee injury completely takes him out. I don't think there's any chance in hell Zion signs anything like that, but there are options the team can explore.

Just as you point out that you have to be careful about BI's ego, you have to be careful about Zion's too. No use alienating him by lowballing him when he knows full well what everyone else in the league is getting paid.

If I have to listen to people tell me Pelicans got a 26.3% of getting a top 4 pick... I'm going to lose my mind. Odds don't work in 400%. It's 100%. It's 6.5% per pick we land in the top 4. They don't add up. They average out. Every pick is the same odds. Have more picks at the same same odds don't give you relatively more odds. You're adding them up to make a much bigger number than what it truly is..

6% - 6.3% - 6.7% - 7.2%

Those are odds of the top 4 picks. Which averages out to the true odds 6.5% in the top 4.

If some was to ask the cumulative odds of all 4 picks. It's 26.3% out of 4 control simulations. It's really silly. It's just grossly misleading, because it's out of 400%. But it's 4 seperate simulation.

You can't add the odds together to get true odds unless you labeled that's clearly out of 400%.

It's frustrating and misleading and empty numbers

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Sadly, I don't think you'll have much success convincing someone to be paid under market value for the sake of someone else's ego.

The issue about him potentially not playing is why I would like, if possible, to get some protections in there. Minimum games played, for example. Hell, Memphis has a term in Jaren Jackson's contract that allows them to flat out waive him and void the contract if his knee injury completely takes him out. I don't think there's any chance in hell Zion signs anything like that, but there are options the team can explore.

Just as you point out that you have to be careful about BI's ego, you have to be careful about Zion's too. No use alienating him by lowballing him when he knows full well what everyone else in the league is getting paid.

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Oh I am not saying that is what they should do.
I was just saying that it is risky.
I think this is BI's team and eventually Zion will be gone and the pieces they get for him will add to BI's team.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Oh I am not saying that is what they should do.
I was just saying that it is risky.
I think this is BI's team and eventually Zion will be gone and the pieces they get for him will add to BI's team.

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I think if this is BI's team and he's the best player on the team, it's not a championship team. That's my personal view. It would take yet another leap from Ingram for me to change my mind on that and while he's taken two and proven me wrong in the past, I think we're getting a little greedy if we expect him to do it yet again. It's a lot to bet on.

I think we offer Zion the max, and he takes it, and we're all happy to have done so. That's my prediction.

Create a time machine and rewind back to the 2016 draft to draft Jamal Murray

Really don't understand why people are obsessed with trading this Lakers pick.

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Originally Posted by Sovereign

Really don't understand why people are obsessed with trading this Lakers pick.

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If you are going to dump Graham for a better role player. Do it without future picks

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Originally Posted by Taker597

If I have to listen to people tell me Pelicans got a 26.3% of getting a top 4 pick... I'm going to lose my mind. Odds don't work in 400%. It's 100%. It's 6.5% per pick we land in the top 4. They don't add up. They average out. Every pick is the same odds. Have more picks at the same same odds don't give you relatively more odds. You're adding them up to make a much bigger number than what it truly is..

6% - 6.3% - 6.7% - 7.2%

Those are odds of the top 4 picks. Which averages out to the true odds 6.5% in the top 4.

If some was to ask the cumulative odds of all 4 picks. It's 26.3% out of 4 control simulations. It's really silly. It's just grossly misleading, because it's out of 400%. But it's 4 seperate simulation.

You can't add the odds together to get true odds unless you labeled that's clearly out of 400%.

It's frustrating and misleading and empty numbers

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Went down this road last year.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think if this is BI's team and he's the best player on the team, it's not a championship team. That's my personal view. It would take yet another leap from Ingram for me to change my mind on that and while he's taken two and proven me wrong in the past, I think we're getting a little greedy if we expect him to do it yet again. It's a lot to bet on.

I think we offer Zion the max, and he takes it, and we're all happy to have done so. That's my prediction.

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True Dat!!!

"Wrong" and "dae" are synonymous!!!