Zion Williamson is the guy

In his first playoff game he gave us 40 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists. He was the best player on the floor, outplayed Lebron and AD.

The only guy who showed up. He was the straw that stirred the drink and he was also the drink.

We lost, but he was the only one who looked like he hadn't given up until about 36 minutes in, when Trey hit that second three and Jose started putting it on. Before that, it was Zion vs the Lakers and he was somehow keeping it together.

Generational talent when healthy. I hope he's okay, long term. Nobody better on this team.

It was not a playoff game. It was a play-in game. We have not qualified for the playoffs yet.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

It was not a playoff game. It was a play-in game. We have not qualified for the playoffs yet.

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It's a post-season game. 82 are up, these are extra. Not playoff, but not regular season either - it counts, imo.

Are we really debating on if it was a playoff game or not? The bottom line is this dude is special. Put three point shooters around him and enjoy the results.

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Originally Posted by mriguy

Are we really debating on if it was a playoff game or not? The bottom line is this dude is special. Put three point shooters around him and enjoy the results.

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Yeah, the result will be a solid regular season maybe. And a few playoff series wins.. maybe. Is that really enough for the NO fanbase? Judging by some of these comments it seems some of you only care about being competitive. Not winning championships. I'm not knocking you if that's all that you want. But I assure you, Zion isn't sticking around for that. If he isn't playing with other all-star caliber players he's leaving.

And the only reason why he bought in was because he saw how Ingram led this team in the play-offs when he was on the bench. He saw the potential.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Yeah, the result will be a solid regular season maybe. And a few playoff series wins.. maybe. Is that really enough for the NO fanbase? Judging by some of these comments it seems some of you only care about being competitive. Not winning championships. I'm not knocking you if that's all that you want. But I assure you, Zion isn't sticking around for that. If he isn't playing with other all-star caliber players he's leaving.

And the only reason why he bought in was because he saw how Ingram led this team in the play-offs when he was on the bench. He saw the potential.

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Ingram isn't an all-star so trading him won't make a difference then.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Ingram isn't an all-star so trading him won't make a difference then.

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Some of you on this board give astute analysis. Some even give it with a bit of bias. I can respect it. But it's hard communicating with people who deny reality. Saying Ingram isn't an all-star talent illustrates a delusion, or inability to be objective when assessing talent.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Some of you on this board give astute analysis. Some even give it with a bit of bias. I can respect it. But it's hard communicating with people who deny reality. Saying Ingram isn't an all-star talent illustrates a delusion, or inability to be objective when assessing talent.

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How many all-stars has he appeared in?
1 in 8 years.
Yeah but he's worth 40-45M a year for that 1 appearance he made in 2020.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

How many all-stars has he appeared in?
1 in 8 years.
Yeah but he's worth 40-45M a year for that 1 appearance he made in 2020.

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No, he's worth that much because that's what players who put up the numbers he puts up gets. Like it or not, that's what players make in the NBA currently.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

No, he's worth that much because that's what players who put up the numbers he puts up gets. Like it or not, that's what players make in the NBA currently.

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You are kidding right?
Look at the list of players that are making or will make that much money.
Then tell me how many of those players BI is better than.

Attachment 6666

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

You are kidding right?
Look at the list of players that are making or will make that much money.
Then tell me how many of those players BI is better than.

Attachment 6666

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Based on production he's better than at least 9 on that list. You actually helped prove my point. And if you don't agree, he's better than at least half on that list. Which still proves my point.

Then ask yourself, how many of these types will want to come to NO..

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Based on production he's better than at least 9 on that list. You actually helped prove my point. And if you don't agree, he's better than at least half on that list. Which still proves my point.

Then ask yourself, how many of these types will want to come to NO..

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I can see maybe 6 that he is equal to, but still dont want to pay 50M for annoying fade aways.
Like to hear your 9.

And poor NOLA, can't get anyone to play there so they will pay guy's an extra 10M.

You know why that is?
Because the FO and team has been irrelevant since 2008, not becasue of the City.
The team dug their own hole, doesn't mean we as fans should have to accept it.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

I can see maybe 6 that he is equal to, but still dont want to pay 50M for annoying fade aways.
Like to hear your 9.

And poor NOLA, can't get anyone to play there so they will pay guy's an extra 10M.

You know why that is?
Because the FO and team has been irrelevant since 2008, not becasue of the City.
The team dug their own hole, doesn't mean we as fans should have to accept it.

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That's fine if you don't want him to be paid that amount. My point still stands. You wont find young talent that's willing to come to NO that can produce at the same rate as Ingram for cheap. That kind of player doesn't exist. You have to be realistic.

I don't like seeing so many contested fall away mid range shots. We are in agreement there. But ask yourself why he takes so many of these shots. Do you think he's defying the coach? I don't. With a better coach, and system. He'd take less of these difficult shots because a system would actually generate better looks. And again, a point guard would actually help with that as well.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

That's fine if you don't want him to be paid that amount. My point still stands. You wont find young talent that's willing to come to NO that can produce at the same rate as Ingram for cheap. That kind of player doesn't exist. You have to be realistic.

I don't like seeing so many contested fall away mid range shots. We are in agreement there. But ask yourself why he takes so many of these shots. Do you think he's defying the coach? I don't. With a better coach, and system. He'd take less of these difficult shots because a system would actually generate better looks. And again, a point guard would actually help with that as well.

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So you don't want to give me your 9?
He takes those contested shots because he is what he is.
Same as why he chooses to take 3's in some games and in others he goes into his shell.

45-50M is not cheap.
With the salary of CJ and BI you can build a team that is more competative with role players around Zion.
Its not always about talent, its about fit and complimentry pieces.

Tell me why when BI or Zion are missing the team looks better offensively?
Because there is no confusion on the pecking order.

Its either all in or Zion or all in on BI, can't have both.

Both are injury prone, but only one has a chance to become MVP calibre.
And the one that you are happy to pay 45-50M who should be 2nd in the pecking order doesn't work when your best player is being paid less.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

So you don't want to give me your 9?
He takes those contested shots because he is what he is.
Same as why he chooses to take 3's in some games and in others he goes into his shell.

45-50M is not cheap.
With the salary of CJ and BI you can build a team that is more competative with role players around Zion.
Its not always about talent, its about fit and complimentry pieces.

Tell me why when BI or Zion are missing the team looks better offensively?
Because there is no confusion on the pecking order.

Its either all in or Zion or all in on BI, can't have both.

Both are injury prone, but only one has a chance to become MVP calibre.
And the one that you are happy to pay 45-50M who should be 2nd in the pecking order doesn't work when your best player is being paid less.

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You're missing it entirely. It's not about 9 or 6. My point is simple, and it should be easy for you to understand. By you providing that list, you proved my point. Players of Ingram's caliber get max contracts. Especially at his age. How is that not clear to you?????

Ingram will do whatever he is told to by the coach. He will adjust. Just like he did with the Lakers. He was moved to point to facilitate, he did it. He was moved to shooting guard, he did it. Then moved to small forward, did that as well. If a coach implemented a system, and he was given a role within that system, he would comply and adjust. That's what he's always done.

You asked why the team looks better with Zion or Ingram out of the lineup. Coaching! That's why. Getting Shaq, and Kobe to work was a product of good coaching. Managing Manu, Parker, and Duncan.. Coaching!

As to your last point. It's indicative of a mindset by a lot of NO fans. Not all. You are okay with being competitive, not being a championship contender is fine with you. You're not paying Zion 50M because he's not staying with a franchise that thinks the way you do. That has the same expectations as you. He's not going to waste his career away playing to be competitive.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

So you don't want to give me your 9?
He takes those contested shots because he is what he is.
Same as why he chooses to take 3's in some games and in others he goes into his shell.

45-50M is not cheap.
With the salary of CJ and BI you can build a team that is more competative with role players around Zion.
Its not always about talent, its about fit and complimentry pieces.

Tell me why when BI or Zion are missing the team looks better offensively?
Because there is no confusion on the pecking order.

Its either all in or Zion or all in on BI, can't have both.

Both are injury prone, but only one has a chance to become MVP calibre.
And the one that you are happy to pay 45-50M who should be 2nd in the pecking order doesn't work when your best player is being paid less.

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Not sure I want to pay him a max deal. However, I think he is better than Beal, Thompson, Van Vleet, Young and Lavine for starters. Also, have to consider that each year, the starting base of an extension is higher than the previous year.

BI and Larry Nance for D Murray and C. Capela (extend him 2 years after the trade) in the offseason. Fixes our needs at PG and center. CJ and Murphy replace BI’s role. I will keep posting this until it happens.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

BI and Larry Nance for D Murray and C. Capela (extend him 2 years after the trade) in the offseason. Fixes our needs at PG and center. CJ and Murphy replace BI’s role. I will keep posting this until it happens.

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What are you supposed to win with this team? lol It's like I thought, some of you don't care about championships.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

What are you supposed to win with this team? lol It's like I thought, some of you don't care about championships.

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Far more than a team with BI and Zion negatively affecting each others play. Murray too is just as much an all star as BI that is a PG who can lead an offense to play something other than iso ball.

Which team is better?

PG: Murray/Alvarado
SG: CJ/Daniels/Hawkins
SF: Jones/Murphy
PF: Zion/Naji
C: Capela/ FA center

Or

PG: CJ/Alvarado
SG: Ingram/Daniels/Hawkins
SF: Jones/Murphy
PF: Zion/Naji
C: JV/Nance

We have seen enough of team 2 to say that play in/1st round exit is its peak. It never will be a real contender without a PG.

The other option I could get behind is dumping CJ for pennies, BI accepting a $35 million a year extension instead of $50, extending Murphy for $15-$20 million a year, and signing CP3 to simply be an assist machine for a couple years at $15 million a year.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Far more than a team with BI and Zion negatively affecting each others play. Murray too is just as much an all star as BI that is a PG who can lead an offense to play something other than iso ball.

Which team is better?

PG: Murray/Alvarado
SG: CJ/Daniels/Hawkins
SF: Jones/Murphy
PF: Zion/Naji
C: Capela/ FA center

Or

PG: CJ/Alvarado
SG: Ingram/Daniels/Hawkins
SF: Jones/Murphy
PF: Zion/Naji
C: JV/Nance

We have seen enough of team 2 to say that play in/1st round exit is its peak. It never will be a real contender without a PG.

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Your premise is off. No one is suggesting we keep the same team. Nice strawman. Your "or" is one you've created to validate your position. No one is advocating for your "or". lol

You can't build a contending team in the modern NBA around two stars who do not shoot 3 pointers and are average defenders. You just can't. Brandon has been asked--repeatedly--to change his shot profile the way CJ has done this year. He can't or won't. In fact, he's regressed. In 2019-2020 he was getting up 6+ attempts a game at better than 39%. That's dropped to fewer than 4 attempts a game at under 36%. He's going away from the three-point line when the league is moving toward it.

Brandon is a good player. But the fit next to Zion is bad if you want to be a contender. Seeing that in the numbers, you have to try another way...

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Your premise is off. No one is suggesting we keep the same team. Nice strawman. Your "or" is one you've created to validate your position. No one is advocating for your "or". lol

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How do you propose we proceed in improving this noncontending team with 3 players making $35 million plus a year and its second best player expecting a $50 million a year max extension? Shall we trade Murphy in order to pay BI as both are due a lucrative extension? Is that mid range shot taking us to the promise land?

We will have an opportunity to see in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

The other option I could get behind is dumping CJ for pennies, BI accepting a $35 million a year extension instead of $50, extending Murphy for $15-$20 million a year, and signing CP3 to simply be an assist machine for a couple years at $15 million a year.

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I would also like to win the lottery and marry a supermodel.

BI is not signing a contract for way below his max, if he was going to do that he would have extended last year. Trey is not extending for half of the money that comparable players from his class have been extending for. CP3 is not coming home.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

How do you propose we proceed in improving this noncontending team with 3 players making $35 million plus a year and its second best player expecting a $50 million a year max extension? Shall we trade Murphy in order to pay BI as both are due a lucrative extension? Is that mid range shot taking us to the promise land?

We will have an opportunity to see in the playoffs.

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I've asked this question a million times and never got an answer.

The reality is that if you sign BI for that max, and extend Trey, you must do it on the assumption that this is a championship level team in the waiting. If you don't believe that, then you're admitting you don't care about championship upside because there will be no more needle-moving options available to us.

If you don't think this is already a championship calibre team, then you accept there needs to be change and you can't do that while committing that money. So someone's got to go.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I've asked this question a million times and never got an answer.

The reality is that if you sign BI for that max, and extend Trey, you must do it on the assumption that this is a championship level team in the waiting. If you don't believe that, then you're admitting you don't care about championship upside because there will be no more needle-moving options available to us.

If you don't think this is already a championship calibre team, then you accept there needs to be change and you can't do that while committing that money. So someone's got to go.

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It's simple. You package a positive asset with a perceived negative asset. We've seen this done before, time and time again. So I'm puzzled as to why some of you are puzzled on how keeping Ingram, and Zion together while upgrading is possible.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I would also like to win the lottery and marry a supermodel.

BI is not signing a contract for way below his max, if he was going to do that he would have extended last year. Trey is not extending for half of the money that comparable players from his class have been extending for. CP3 is not coming home.

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Yes, hence why I am part of team trade BI. Because, I?d rather D Murray, extending Murphy, and Capela.