Which combination of guys (2 or 3) below do you think would take a pay cut to team up with Boogie and AD?
Sergio Rodriguez
JJ Reddick
Tim Hardaway Jr
Bojan Bogdanovic
Rudy Gay
Also, what other combination of guys could you realistically see coming here on a discount this off season?
Who would take a pay cut?
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03-20-2017, 11:09 AMImnos 2Who would take a pay cut?
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03-20-2017, 11:19 AMPelsFan2313The only player from that list I can possibly imagine taking a "paycut" is Rudy Gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnos 2
And that has nothing to do with playing for our team. We haven't accomplished anything significant before or after acquiring Boogie, not to mention our core players are perennial losers. The Pelicans aren't at a point where players will forgo other better paying/winning opportunities for the sake of pairing up with Boogie and the Brow.
Now that Gay is on the wrong side of 30 and coming off a torn achilles injury, I can see a scenario where he may take a 1 yr prove it deal at a discounted price in order to secure what's likely to be his last shot at a reasonably paying long term contract. The problem is achilles injuries are really difficult to get over, particularly for older players. And players who have been able to rebound from that sort of injury in the past have usually take at least one additional season of play to do so. As a result, that's going to hurt his asking price to the point investing in him may be perceived as a "discount" from his prior market value, when in reality, it probably would not be given his likely decline in play next season. -
03-20-2017, 11:36 AMluckyman
This team doesn't have to do squat in these little 30 games AD and Cousins are together this year. With hardly any practice time and a roster in scramble mode to finish the season.
No player could be so dumb as to not see the potential in playing with those two. There is a reason so many players reacted when that trade happened. I can remember when David West signed with Indiana. They hadn't done squat yet, but they had PG and he saw the potential, and he was right. -
03-20-2017, 11:59 AMAD23nEG10
Justin Holiday to play with his brother.
I'm fine with a starting 5 of Jrue, Justin, Solo, AD & Boogie if you can use the rest of your money on making a deep wing bench. Most notably a backup, offensive minded SF. If they could trade for Wilson Chandler somehow that'd be ideal as a super sixth man who can play the 2-4 for you. Or try and sign Gallo and figure out what to do with Solo.
Jrue/Free Agent/Tim
Justin/Moore
Solo/Free Agent/DC
AD/DC/Diallo
Boogie/Ajinca or DMo/Diallo -
03-20-2017, 12:03 PMMythrol
I like Justin Holiday a lot as our 2 guard. He should be low enough cost that he won't break the bank but plays defense and hits 3s.
Out of the OPs list I'm not sure who if any would take a pay cut though. -
03-20-2017, 12:35 PMImnos 2
I honestly could see an older vet as well trying to come over. Like a Rudy Gay. I have always said every good team needs an old head. They play smarter in critical situations.
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03-20-2017, 12:43 PMPelsFan2313Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnos 2
These statements are inconsistent. There's a difference between saying (1) X team values a certain class of players and (2) X team is appealing to said certain class of players. My issue with this post is that the term "older vet" is so ridiculously broad and vague. Does the fact that J.J. Reddick and Udonis Haslem are both older players that have played in the league for a number of years mean that they are equally likely to come over next season? No. So the answer to your question, like most questions, is it depends. It depends on the player, what he's accomplished, what he values, what his value is in the open market, and what teams are open to signing him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnos 2
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03-20-2017, 01:58 PMImnos 2
Of course it does. I'm just having a convo. Not trying to read minds or determine market values right now. But if we can build a nice roster this off season, could I see a player who may want to win, take a pay cut to chase a ring? Yes. Many of the past elite teams have had these types of situations. How cool was it to see Richrad Jefferson not only contribute but ultimately win a title last year. I don't remember but I'm sure he wasnt a priority free agent signing. Probably just filled a roster opening.
So, I pose a question that is a matter of opinion. Do you think this team is attractive enough bring decent to good players at a cheaper cost? -
03-20-2017, 02:03 PMPelsFan2313There is no universe where our team as currently constructed turns into a title contending team in one offseason. If you're not a title contending team, then no, you lack the capability of signing good-decent players (again broad and vague) under market value outside of taking a chance on unproven/troubled/injured players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnos 2
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03-20-2017, 02:17 PMluckymanYou'd have to know the psyche of said player to know if they think this team is or just a piece away from title contending or not, or even if the team being "title contending" is important.Quote:
Originally Posted by PelsFan2313
If I'm a starting guard or wing player, I sure as hell would think adding myself to AD and Cousins (and Jrue to a lesser extant) is title contending. Even Kenny Smith, and ex guard, said he thought this team will win the west in a couple of years. You think his thoughts are an outlier? -
03-20-2017, 02:18 PMPelsFan2313That's one person. That's like me saying Kenny Smith views the team as one piece away from title contending, so every other player in the league must think the same thing. You think his thoughts are the norm?Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
But again that's what drives me crazy about this question, and you alluded to this, is that it's so open to interpretation as to both the type of player we'd be pursuing in this hypothetical and somewhat relatedly his personal biases/preferences.
If we're talking about bonafide ring-chasers, ala the David West and Shane Battiers of the world, which I think the OP eventually settled on, I would be more than willing to bet that an overwhelming majority of those players would much rather choose other teams to chase a ring with, mainly Cleveland and Golden State. -
03-20-2017, 02:25 PMluckymanWhere did I say that? Show me? I simply said you have one ex guard that thinks so. I think so and ASKED if you think he's an outlier. Other players reacted to the trade with amazement.Quote:
Originally Posted by PelsFan2313
Given all that, which one do you think? They just look at this team the same way they do Detroit or Portland? To sit there and act like it's some far fetched idea is wierd to me.
With what's already here, there's no doubt in my mind there are possible top players out there that could sign here for a slight discount. It's not something far fetched at all. Doesn't mean it will happen, but I'm sure it crossed some players minds already. -
03-20-2017, 02:29 PMPelsFan2313To sit there and act like it's not some far fetched idea is much weirder to me. It's about being realistic. Look at the ownership group. Look at our lack of success as a franchise. Look at the lack of success of each of our core players throughout the entirey of their careers. Look at our underwhelming performance as a team since acquiring Boogie, and how he's been misused. There are so many better options out there if we're limiting the conversation to older vet ring-chasers. To think otherwise is absurd in my eyes. Team culture matters. Stability matters. Think of it this way. If you take the team we currently have and place it in last summer's FA period. David West is looking at what team to jump ship to. Can you honestly tell me a player like David West would even consider going to a team like New Orleans over staying in San Antonio or going to Cleveland/Golden State? Absolutely not.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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03-20-2017, 02:32 PMluckymanWell, that seems like your own opinion and your own "realism". I don't know how other players view this franchise right now and neither do you. I do have one example on my side as to what someone who's played the game might think. That's a little more than my own personal opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by PelsFan2313
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03-20-2017, 02:34 PMPelsFan2313Of course it's an opinion. You asked me a question of opinion. I feel strongly about one side, you feel strongly about the other. It's whatever. I just happen to think you're very, very wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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03-20-2017, 03:27 PMhornetsrebirthI agree Justin Holiday is a great fit. 3 and D wing playerQuote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
that won't break the bank. The fact that he and Jrue know each other's game inside and out makes it even better. -
03-20-2017, 03:50 PMImnos 2
If you look at my original post I really only mentioned one older player. In not trying to fill this team with old guys. But you have some free agents out there that are young and on really bad teams. Do you think a guy like Sergio wouldn't consider NO as an upgrade over Philly? Certainly GS and Cleve and SA may be more attractive options to many players But to say we have no shot or slim chances isn't necessarily true. I think, in my opinion, we could bring in one or two guys who may have left money on the table to come to the Pels. Especially if we make a coaching change. This team has a ton of potential. Without Boogie we were just waiting until AD left. Now we have a chance. And I think that could be attractive to future FA's. If you don't think so, I respect that. You could be right
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03-20-2017, 03:59 PMCaleb462
"I think, in my opinion, we could bring in one or two guys who may have left money on the table to come to the Pels."
Yeah, there's nothing outlandish about the idea. We don't know if it will happen - but the pairing of AD and Boogie could absolutely effect who might want to come here and at what price. It doesn't mean we are now destination #1 or anything, and sure, a team like Cleveland or Golden State still has a leg up, but let's not act like this is some crazy notion... -
03-20-2017, 04:13 PM6warddudeQuote:
Originally Posted by PelsFan2313
lebron went to Miami and back to the cavs and made them title contenders that same year.........its only 12 active roaster spot available and ring chasers cant all go to one team so yes we have a shot with boogie and AD......
dont know how players in the league value jrue as a big 3 with boogie and AD but if they value jrue high then yes we have a chance to contend next season with ring chasers looking to play here..........everybody cant go to GS,,the cavs or SA so the potential here with boogie and AD looks real good as a next stop to take GS and SA out...we held our own against GS this season in 3 games....we play SA good...houston is the only team that scare me because when the 3 ball is on for them then they are hard to beat but if the defensive game plan is to let harden score 60pts and shut everyone else down works majority of the time then the rockets wont be a problem for us either....
Hell we dont need ring chasers imo,,all we need is a strong bench and depth to go with our starting 5 and imo we can go toe to toe with the top 3 in the west.....put some shooters around AD and boogie plus someone who can get to the rim at will like reke can do plus i still think we need a true PG then i think that team will be a contender..... -
03-20-2017, 04:34 PMRheem654Yea other than the pay cut part, Justin Holiday is actually just the kind of player the Pels should be looking to add this offseason, and him being the brother of Jrue is an added bonus. Patty Mills would be an awesome addition, as well as Iguodala if for some reason he leaves GS.Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth
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03-20-2017, 04:44 PMAndynola
Or Maybe on Pelicans? This would actually be great.
http://nypost.com/2017/03/03/holiday...ybe-on-knicks/ -
03-20-2017, 05:00 PMN.O.BroncoIn our situation I agree. I always liked what Washington did that year they found some success in the post season where they coupled their young core with a not-yet-geriatric Paul Pierce and Andre Miller.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnos 2
I have said for a while this team needed either a strong disciplinarian that can structure them into a playoff team, or they need to find some veterans that can earn respect by both teaching AND by example on the court night in and night out, how to become a playoff team. -
03-22-2017, 12:47 AMHornetGuru
I could see jj reddick doing it. He isn't gonna win a title in LA, and he would be the perfect fit here. Sharpshooter who plays gritty defense. Plus AD is better than griffin, and cousins better than deandre.
Not saying it's gonna happen, but with him not being a superstar, i can see there being a chance. -
03-22-2017, 01:23 AMpelicanchampI doubt we could afford him and I would be surprised if he took a pay cut. I love the idea though.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornetGuru
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk -
03-22-2017, 12:02 PMluckyman
As I was saying. Any player that sees a team with two players that can easily put up 40+ any given night. They've got to be drooling at the chance and would take less than some other team can give pay wise.
And players really don't give two craps about franchise history or who the owner is. It's the top of the roster, the city itself, and the ability of the franchise to sell those two things.
Not saying it will happen or if it's even necessary at this point, but impossible? :hihi: -
03-22-2017, 12:49 PMPelsFan2313You know that, why? I suppose the Clippers players didn't give a ******** that Sterling was their owner. Black players must have flocked to LA.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
It's never been a question of whether our team has top-heavy talent. It's been a question of whether that talent can translate into winning.
"Some other team." What the hell does that mean? Are we talking about Cleveland, Golden State, San Antonio? Teams that actually have a chance of winning a championship? Or teams like Dallas, Portland, and Detriot? Borderline playoff-contending teams?
The argument is predicated on the type of player you're talking about in the hypo. Again, if we're discussing ring-chasers, or players that want to play on championship-contending teams, why would a player ala David West come to New Orleans when there are so many better options out there? Teams that have actually proven that they can win and consist of players that have actually accomplished something.
Spare me the city crap. Do you honestly think that matters when we're talking about players that want to win, are at the twilight of their careers, and have priorotized winning?
And does it really matter if there's a 5% chance vs. a 0% chance of it happening? My point is it's much more likely that it won't happen if we're sticking to the class of players the OP discussed. Turning my point into an absolutism argument, while conveninent for you, doesn't change the narrative.
Stop focusing on whether our team is attractive and start focusing on our attractiveness relative to other teams. Because when you look at it that way, we're not in the same class as the top tier franchises. -
03-22-2017, 01:58 PMluckyman
You can try to argue your point till you're blue in the face. It's not going to help you make any sense. At all. This is not very complicated. That fact that you have to reach when talking about ownership to someone like Donald Sterling says it all. How many owners have come out to say the things he said? Before that fiasco, even with the negative things surrounding him, players didn't really care about him being the owner. You have players even talking about how they had talked to the guy and didn't really have any bad feelings about him before his Twitter crap. And the issues with the Clippers had more to do with their operations people and coaches. NOT the owner (before his episode). And yes, the city they would be living in also plays a factor.
Also last I checked, Sterling no longer has ties to the NBA. So what's the point of using him as an example? He got removed rather quickly. So no free agent ever had to even make that decision.
The fact remains that players (ANY PLAYER of ANY STATUS) would love to play with 2 top ten players.
It's really not that hard. -
03-22-2017, 02:19 PMPelsFan2313You're right. It isn't that hard. You are just choosing to make it that way. The fact that you think that players didnt care about Sterling being the owner shows how ignorant you are about the situation. I advise you to listen to Baron Davis' comments on Sterling and how uncomfortable he felt being around him (this was before Sterling's comments even surfaced). But if you want a more direct example, Gordon and Anderson have both come out and made comments about how dysfunctional ownership was during their time in New Orleans. It's something players notice and it matters. It affects the image of the franchise, and in turn, the franchise's attractiveness to potential players.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
You also continue to ignore comparative points about how attractive we are relative to top tier teams. Again it doesn't matter if we are attractive if there are several other teams that are even more attractive. Free agency is an open market, stop ignoring that fact and stop ignoring the prioritization of winning when it comes to the class of players we're discussing.
That brings me to the city point. I didn't say the city isn't a factor, so you're point is null. I said that the city isn't a significant factor relative to the class of players we're discussing and their desire to play on a contending team.
Next, Demarcus is not a top 10 player, he's a top 10 talent. And despite that, neither he nor Davis (your other top 10 player) have accomplished anything of significance since playing in the NBA. What's more atttactive to a player? The "potential" to win or a proven track record of winning?
Lastly, stretching the argument to a player of any class is stupid because that's going beyond the scope of the argument.
Take off the tinted shades and see the situation for what it is. Live in reality. Or as you like to call it, nonsense. And if you're going to make a response, stop cherrypicking on one or two points and address the entire argument.
I gave you the courtesy of respecting your opinion, no matter how wrong it likely is. Be mature and do the same thing. Obviously if a person disagrees with your stance, the reality of the situation isn't so black and white.
The potential to be an attractive destination is there. But stop skipping steps. We haven't accomplished ******** yet, and until we do, I doubt we attract the type of players the OP alluded to. -
03-22-2017, 02:55 PMluckyman
Last point I'm going to make. You bring up Baron Davis with regard to the Clippers. You do know how the Clippers got Davis right? They didn't draft him. They didn't trade for him. BD was a pretty hot commodity coming off some good years at Golden St. Donald Sterling was the owner at that time. So....good argument? Really disproves all my points huh?
Have a good one. -
03-22-2017, 03:11 PMPelsFan2313And again fixating on the Sterling point and ignoring every other aspect of my post. Cool. When I counter your point that players didn't have negative feelings about Sterling prior to the scandal, I get this crap. I guess that makes my entire post invalid. Bravo.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman
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03-22-2017, 03:15 PMImnos 2
I would agree with you. We aren't attractive yet. But we look better than we did at the beginning of the season. And are attractiveness will only improve if we have a strong finish to the season.
One thing your forgetting in the equation is how much recruiting AD and Boogie will do this off season. They know we need more talent. Ultimately this I believe will get players to come here on the cheap. If we learned anything with this Cousins trade, is that these guys recruit each other all of the time. We have two All Stars. I think they or if Dell wanted someone he couldn't afford he may try to get his superstars to sell them to take less. -
03-22-2017, 03:27 PMPelsFan2313Every team recruits to some degree. What matters more, particularly in the context of the type of players we're discussing, is the strength of the pitch (our ability to sell our team as a winner) relative to rest of the teams, especially those that are already winning and have been winning for a very long time. But I'm glad that you see that our attractiveness is a developing process rather than an established entity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnos 2
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03-22-2017, 04:26 PMCaleb462
You're just pushing too hard against it PelsFan2313... the attractiveness of NO as a free agent destination has increased, and we MAY be able to lure more good players than was possible previously - that's all anyone is really saying, and that's a perfectly valid and logical idea. Our pitch, as you were just talking about, is now much stronger. Are we Golden State or Cleveland? Nah... but the arrival of Boogie probably jumps us up to the very next tier as far as attractiveness. I mean, I'm definitely guessing on that, but as subjective as a subject as this is - so are you and so is anyone else. It's perfectly logical to assume that there may be valuable players who find the idea of playing next to the core of AD/Boogie or possible AD/Boogie/Jrue to be an enticing idea regardless of franchise history or other factors. We don't know yet but let's not pretend we know the psychology of every available player either way.
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03-22-2017, 05:01 PMPelsFan2313Maybe, but I take language literally. So when I see the OP post this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb462
I am considering that class of players in mind, and that class alone. It's simple really. Does a Richard Jefferson-esque player who wants to win a championship take a paycut to play for us, when there are other teams like Cleveland, Golden State, and San Antonio out there? The answer is no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnos 2
If you want to open up the conversation to other types of players, that's fine. But that's what the OP narrowed the conversation down to, and that's what I'm discussing.
I acknowledge we're more attractive than what we were before, but not to the point where players are going to sacrifice money to pursue championship aspirations. We haven't done anything to inspire that level of confidence.
The gap between Golden State and the rest of the West, and Cleveland and the rest of the East is so freaking significant. I can't stress that enough.
You're correct with the psychology point and it's something I addressed already in a number of posts.
I think we're in agreement with the status of our team as a free agent destination. The disconnect lies in our interpretation of the OP's question.Quote:
Originally Posted by PelsFan2313
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03-22-2017, 05:03 PMRobertM320
And its not like we're looking to add a KD or Westbrook to the mix. Just a couple of solid shooters.
Also, just how many spots do you think GSW, SA and Cle have available? There's only 45 players total on the 3 rosters and almost all of those are committed long term. -
03-22-2017, 05:16 PMPelsFan2313I'm not sure what you're getting at with your first point. I didn't say we couldn't fill out our roster with shooters.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertM320
With regards to your second point, did that stop Cleveland from getting Andrew Bogut, Deron Williams, or Richard Jefferson? Did that stop Golden State from getting Zaza Pachulia and David West? Did that stop San Antonio from getting David West and Pau Gasol?
I think you're misunderstanding the argument that's taking place. -
03-22-2017, 05:17 PMRobertM320
Didn't say they won't get first pick. But they can't take EVERYONE that wants to play on their team.
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03-22-2017, 05:25 PMPelsFan2313It depends on how you define the class of players the OP alluded to, since that would affect the number of players you're discussing in the first place. I don't think there's a significant number of players who make that sort of sacrifice because, as you said, there's only a finite number of teams that can facilitate that sort of aspiration. So a supply-demand argument doesn't hold much merit in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertM320
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03-23-2017, 09:39 AMCaleb462See the only difference of opinion I have is that you are so sure the answer is 'no' and for me, I think its a pretty clear 'we don't know' - but certainly I understand your argument that the ring-chasing crowd is more likely to seek out a Golden State, Cleveland or San Antonio first. You are more than likely correct. That said, there are enough unknown variables involved that I think its fair to leave the idea open as a possibility and a not necessarily a slim one.Quote:
Originally Posted by PelsFan2313
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03-23-2017, 09:51 AMrezburnaQuote:
Originally Posted by Imnos 2
Tim Hardaway Jr. gives us an emerging start at Shooting Guard, allowing Jordan Crawford to be the 6th man and continue giving us that spark off the bench. Signing both him and Rudy Gay would do wonders for this roster. If we could somehow get Patty Mills as well we might actually be able to contend next year.
Starters:
Cousins
Davis
Gay
Hardaway
Holiday
Bench:
Crawford
Mills
Moore
Motiejunas
Hill
Diallo -
03-24-2017, 07:47 AMWerdiknightThat would be kind of a dream scenario. But I'm not sure it would even be theoratically possible. What kind of contracts do you expect Gay, Hardaway, Motie and Mills to take? Don't think we have even the slightest hope to make that fit financially.Quote:
Originally Posted by rezburna
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03-24-2017, 01:06 PMPelsFan2313Tim Hardaway Jr. is in line to make a lot of money this summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by rezburna
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03-24-2017, 01:37 PMPolishFanHe is the type of a player I would like to get depending on the cost of courseQuote:
Originally Posted by PelsFan2313
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03-24-2017, 02:40 PMlsutigers33
how much better is Hardaway compared to Justin H? Haven't watched Justin play.
Would Jrue take a less than max deal here if we sign Justin first? -
03-24-2017, 03:31 PMluckymanJrue won't have to decide on taking a max deal or not. So there's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by lsutigers33
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03-25-2017, 02:00 PMAll Metro
Would love T.Hardaway Jr
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03-25-2017, 04:47 PMChamp
Conversely, if he doesn't make an All-NBA team, "Zero percent chance it gets done this summer"
— Michael McNamara (@SilverAndMac) March 25, 2017
Something to watch for