N/P: Suns threatening to move to Vegas or Seattle

Sounds like the issue could be a new arena.

UPDATE: City official tells me Suns owner Robert Sarver is threatening to take Suns to Seattle or Las Vegas. https://t.co/SLHEwpbpL7 via @azcentral

— Laurie Roberts (@LaurieRoberts) December 12, 2018

Thoughts?

Usually you need to be not a crap product to try and force gov/fans to pay for your new arena.

This is a bold strategy to have a team that sucks so bad for so long and still feel entitled. I hope the gov and fans tell them to pound sand. At worst they're losing the excitement of seeing other teams star players and a high draft pick that doesn't pan out.

Better them than us.:huh:

Seriously though, these billionaire owners are ridiculous with this stuff. Stop being babies and pay for this stuff yourself.

I’m with Mythrol, let them pound sand.

A billionaire being a ridiculous tantrum throwing man-baby?

What next, the Sun rising in the East?

Pretty incredible, 15 teams in West and 14 of them are still very much in it. The only one that isn't is trying to push the city into a corner, WOW!!!!

I understand the owners standpoint. He is bringing in millions of dollars a year to the Phoenix government through jobs and taxes. Now he has a huge expense that only he is going to have to front in the range of 1b+ while the other people profiting are going to get even more millions thanks to a new stadium that will create new jobs and more people coming to the new stadium.

His desire for them to give a tax break and fund part or most of a building that they are profiting off of makes sense. The Saints did the same thing when their contract ran out with the city but they were a very popular winning team that had won the Superbowl not that long before. The saints had years of sold out seating.

The part that doesn't is him demanding it now while his team sucks. I don't know how well the Suns have been but with their current years of bad teams I'd expect attendance hasn't been through the roof.

Personally, I think that every time a billionaire complains about something, every single person they employ (and whose labour they therefore exploit for profit) should be allowed to slap them.

I feel bad for the Suns fans being put in this position, but I'm so happy it's not us for once.

I think this might explain why the commish might be holding off on an expansion in Seattle and Vegas. Might save the NBA money by just moving a team. Agree the PHX owner needs to eat sand.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I understand the owners standpoint. He is bringing in millions of dollars a year to the Phoenix government through jobs and taxes. Now he has a huge expense that only he is going to have to front in the range of 1b+ while the other people profiting are going to get even more millions thanks to a new stadium that will create new jobs and more people coming to the new stadium.

His desire for them to give a tax break and fund part or most of a building that they are profiting off of makes sense. The Saints did the same thing when their contract ran out with the city but they were a very popular winning team that had won the Superbowl not that long before. The saints had years of sold out seating.

The part that doesn't is him demanding it now while his team sucks. I don't know how well the Suns have been but with their current years of bad teams I'd expect attendance hasn't been through the roof.

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I agree with you most of the time on basketball things and I think you're one of the most nuanced and intelligent posters here, so I don't mean any of this disrespectfully. But I hate this take. No one is forcing him to own the team, no one else is clamoring for a new stadium, and no one is stopping him from financing this through private transactions. He pays taxes as a proportion of his revenues, just like the rest of us. He makes obscene profits off of those employees and his team has gone from a $400 Mil purchase price to a valuation of at least 1.3 billion this year. How in God's name is he entitled to public funding when he's made that much money himself?

The city of Phoenix should tell him to shove this request so far up his ****** that it comes through his nostrils. I don't even care how good the team is, but that just goes to show how tone deaf he is. Sarver should fund the new stadium himself if he wants it that bad, sell the team to any number of buyers frothing at the mouth if he doesn't want it anymore, or shut the **** up and sit the **** down and stop demanding concessions from a city that has already given him so much even though he has been one of the worst owners in the league since he bought the team.

If they go to Seattle they need to call themselves the Supersonics again. Seattle Suns makes no sense. Worse than Utah Jazz.

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Originally Posted by Nola3

I agree with you most of the time on basketball things and I think you're one of the most nuanced and intelligent posters here, so I don't mean any of this disrespectfully. But I hate this take. No one is forcing him to own the team, no one else is clamoring for a new stadium, and no one is stopping him from financing this through private transactions. He pays taxes as a proportion of his revenues, just like the rest of us. He makes obscene profits off of those employees and his team has gone from a $400 Mil purchase price to a valuation of at least 1.3 billion this year. How in God's name is he entitled to public funding when he's made that much money himself?

The city of Phoenix should tell him to shove this request so far up his ****** that it comes through his nostrils. I don't even care how good the team is, but that just goes to show how tone deaf he is. Sarver should fund the new stadium himself if he wants it that bad, sell the team to any number of buyers frothing at the mouth if he doesn't want it anymore, or shut the **** up and sit the **** down and stop demanding concessions from a city that has already given him so much even though he has been one of the worst owners in the league since he bought the team.

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This this this this this

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Originally Posted by AstroFire

I think this might explain why the commish might be holding off on an expansion in Seattle and Vegas. Might save the NBA money by just moving a team. Agree the PHX owner needs to eat sand.

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Or that he is doing what other commissioners in all sports have done in the past, maintaining leverage on current city/state governments by having a desirable option for their teams to move to if they do not give their respective owners what they want.

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Originally Posted by Nola3

I agree with you most of the time on basketball things and I think you're one of the most nuanced and intelligent posters here, so I don't mean any of this disrespectfully. But I hate this take. No one is forcing him to own the team, no one else is clamoring for a new stadium, and no one is stopping him from financing this through private transactions. He pays taxes as a proportion of his revenues, just like the rest of us. He makes obscene profits off of those employees and his team has gone from a $400 Mil purchase price to a valuation of at least 1.3 billion this year. How in God's name is he entitled to public funding when he's made that much money himself?

The city of Phoenix should tell him to shove this request so far up his ****** that it comes through his nostrils. I don't even care how good the team is, but that just goes to show how tone deaf he is. Sarver should fund the new stadium himself if he wants it that bad, sell the team to any number of buyers frothing at the mouth if he doesn't want it anymore, or shut the **** up and sit the **** down and stop demanding concessions from a city that has already given him so much even though he has been one of the worst owners in the league since he bought the team.

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i hear what you saying but you have to put yourself as the owner of a team and think like one.....you are not going to stay rich if you keep using your money...its fun using public money to get what you want and make more money for you....this is part of the sports and entertainment business and when you have the opening for leverage,,the city and state can put up or say no but if you say no then someone else may say yes and give you that new shinny toy you asking for....

you have to think like an owner,,why should i pay full price for something that the phoenix residents will benefit off of... you are an owner and you are all about the profits,,, saving money ,,using other people money and making money.......you have to look at it from both sides....

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

i hear what you saying but you have to put yourself as the owner of a team and think like one.....you are not going to stay rich if you keep using your money...its fun using public money to get what you want and make more money for you....this is part of the sports and entertainment business and when you have the opening for leverage,,the city and state can put up or say no but if you say no then someone else may say yes and give you that new shinny toy you asking for....

you have to think like an owner,,why should i pay full price for something that the phoenix residents will benefit off of... you are an owner and you are all about the profits,,, saving money ,,using other people money and making money.......you have to look at it from both sides....

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It may be fun, but it's also fundamentally exploitative, and very arguably immoral. The fact that incredible rich people can, and often do, leverage their wealth to accrue further wealth, always at the expense of others, doesn't mean that you should be exempt from criticism when you try and do it. The fact is, the responsibility of a government or state should be to provide services in the best interests of it's citizens. Building a new stadium is incredibly expensive, and given that they already have a stadium which, although perhaps not perfect, is fine, is a waste of public money that could be used on almost anything else.

Blowing public money for some incredibly rich idiot's vanity project happens all the time. It's still reprehensible and any rich idiot pushing for it should be mocked relentlessly, and stymied at every turn.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sting

If they go to Seattle they need to call themselves the Supersonics again. Seattle Suns makes no sense. Worse than Utah Jazz.

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This is the most important aspect of the deal. Also, the most important comment in this thread...

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Originally Posted by Nola3

I agree with you most of the time on basketball things and I think you're one of the most nuanced and intelligent posters here, so I don't mean any of this disrespectfully. But I hate this take. No one is forcing him to own the team, no one else is clamoring for a new stadium, and no one is stopping him from financing this through private transactions. He pays taxes as a proportion of his revenues, just like the rest of us. He makes obscene profits off of those employees and his team has gone from a $400 Mil purchase price to a valuation of at least 1.3 billion this year. How in God's name is he entitled to public funding when he's made that much money himself?

The city of Phoenix should tell him to shove this request so far up his ****** that it comes through his nostrils. I don't even care how good the team is, but that just goes to show how tone deaf he is. Sarver should fund the new stadium himself if he wants it that bad, sell the team to any number of buyers frothing at the mouth if he doesn't want it anymore, or shut the **** up and sit the **** down and stop demanding concessions from a city that has already given him so much even though he has been one of the worst owners in the league since he bought the team.

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I don't necessarily disagree with you. My only point was that I understand where the owner was coming from. He is making the city of Phoenix millions of dollars a year that they otherwise wouldn't have. He is also providing hundreds of jobs. He is about to take on a billion + dollar expense to build a new stadium.

In the same breath that he is paying taxes, etc off of revenue he also owes the city nothing. If I were in his position and I have multiple cities saying they will fund a new stadium and give me tax breaks while the current city I am in is refusing, then I'd be doing the same thing.

The only people I trust less than major businesses is local goverment. They routinely screw people over wherever they can. Just look at how horrible local government is running Nola water.

People want to say this is a billionaire and he should just shut up and take it, but I'm split on this feeling because I hate the billionaires and the local government equally.

Everyone is looking out for their best interest and none of it is for the actual fans of the Suns. That part sucks. But what the owner is doing, let the chips fall where they may. I see it as part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It may be fun, but it's also fundamentally exploitative, and very arguably immoral. The fact that incredible rich people can, and often do, leverage their wealth to accrue further wealth, always at the expense of others, doesn't mean that you should be exempt from criticism when you try and do it. The fact is, the responsibility of a government or state should be to provide services in the best interests of it's citizens. Building a new stadium is incredibly expensive, and given that they already have a stadium which, although perhaps not perfect, is fine, is a waste of public money that could be used on almost anything else.

Blowing public money for some incredibly rich idiot's vanity project happens all the time. It's still reprehensible and any rich idiot pushing for it should be mocked relentlessly, and stymied at every turn.

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i understand how you feel..no one is saying rich people should be exempt from criticism but its business...its just some people understand the owners side of the coin...i would never get mad at people who leverage themselves to be able to use gov,state funding for gain by putting a product out that locals will benefit from.....it would look good in the paper that a owner used their own money to build an arena but at the end of the day,,the people will benefit and pay at the same time this way or your way.....

your officials have options,,they can always say no to a billionaire and that will make some happy but when you find out what said money was spent on, that may ******** you off also how your officials wasted money lol....to me its all the same...build an arena with the funds and some people benefit and some dont....say no and spend the funds elsewhere and again some people benefit and some dont......at the end of the day, some rich people and some officials are going to look out for their best interest and you just have to pick a side to vent your frustration onto...im rolling with the owner....

Now he says a Suns staying put for now at least,

A message from Managing Partner, Robert Sarver: pic.twitter.com/f2YLC0woYG

— Phoenix Suns (@Suns) December 13, 2018

https://deadspin.com/suns-owner-robe...n-t-1831089392

To be fair to the owner he never said he would relocate. It was reported by a city council member that's what the owner said. After this video came out of the owner saying he was staying, the city council member backed away from his previous claim of the owner threatening to leave.

This is the exact type of behavior that makes people not like local governments. Everyone wanted to hate on the owner but really it was some official trying to sway public opinion leaking false information. The owner isn't even asking for a new arena he wants the current one remodeled and build a practice facility. He basically said he'd move to a different county if Phoenix didn't work with him on the renovation but never threatened to go to Vegas or Seattle.

If I were the owner I'd sure go back into those meetings with some fire now.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

To be fair to the owner he never said he would relocate. It was reported by a city council member that's what the owner said. After this video came out of the owner saying he was staying, the city council member backed away from his previous claim of the owner threatening to leave.

This is the exact type of behavior that makes people not like local governments. Everyone wanted to hate on the owner but really it was some official trying to sway public opinion leaking false information. The owner isn't even asking for a new arena he wants the current one remodeled and build a practice facility. He basically said he'd move to a different county if Phoenix didn't work with him on the renovation but never threatened to go to Vegas or Seattle.

If I were the owner I'd sure go back into those meetings with some fire now.

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Depends on who you believe. Remember Clay Bennett said a renovated Seattle Arena works for him. Mark Davis said he was not moving Raiders either. Now he is homeless for a year.LOL.

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Originally Posted by AstroFire

Depends on who you believe. Remember Clay Bennett said a renovated Seattle Arena works for him. Mark Davis said he was not moving Raiders either. Now he is homeless for a year.LOL.

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Well since the city council member now is backing away from their previous statement (lie) and the newspaper that ran the article took back the claims in an update, I think it's pretty easy to know who to believe.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ef1267bd70.jpg

The owner still maybe prick. Interesting to see if city council gives him his renovations since some don’t like him.

ROBERT SARVER HAS NO SHAME!!!!!!!!! #Suns #TimeToRise Video courtesy of @keplerexpress pic.twitter.com/Jtu24udBHB

— Valley of the Suns (@ValleyoftheSuns) December 5, 2018

Of course he's still awful. There's no such thing as a good person with that much money.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

It may be fun, but it's also fundamentally exploitative, and very arguably immoral. The fact that incredible rich people can, and often do, leverage their wealth to accrue further wealth, always at the expense of others, doesn't mean that you should be exempt from criticism when you try and do it. The fact is, the responsibility of a government or state should be to provide services in the best interests of it's citizens. Building a new stadium is incredibly expensive, and given that they already have a stadium which, although perhaps not perfect, is fine, is a waste of public money that could be used on almost anything else.

Blowing public money for some incredibly rich idiot's vanity project happens all the time. It's still reprehensible and any rich idiot pushing for it should be mocked relentlessly, and stymied at every turn.

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This. Understanding something from a billionaires perspective is something that sounds utterly ridiculous. Tell them to see it from millions of our perspectives. And that includes the tax payer funded dome.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Of course he's still awful. There's no such thing as a good person with that much money.

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Yeesh

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Originally Posted by wnelson

Yeesh

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Surprised by the yeesh. Honestly, this might be one of the coldest takes I've dropped on this board since joining.

John Oliver explains this well,