Favors to have back surgery; recovery is typically 1 to 4 weeks

Heard from a good source that he was having surgery for his ailing back. Just wanted to pass along the news.

Ouch. This team is so unlucky. I guess we get to see more of Hayes if that’s any consolation.

It's gotta be the below sea level atmosphere. This ain't normal. Guys come down here and become instantly broken.

Favors ability to be a walking double double is the difference in this team having any shot at the playoffs. Which is still fully in reach.

To be optimistic, not a lot of time being missed and tbh, Jax getting more run is a plus.

It's so obvious to me that the health issues stem from the pace that we've been playing at in relation to how short the NBA offseason is. How long were players working out at the facility before preseason began? 1-2 weeks? It's unsustainable to run at such an absurd amount while not focusing on it in the offseason.

Take a look at the top 5 teams in pace of play: Bucks, Timberwolves, Rockets, Nets, Pelicans.
Of those teams:
Middleton out with a lower leg injury,
Gordon, Gerald Green, Nene all out with leg injuries
Levert thumb injury
Pelicans injuries are well documented (a majority of which have come in transition plays)

The only team in the top 5 to have any injury luck is the Timberwolves. I think that should at least in part be attributed to the out of shape bodies, the reckless style of play of transition basketball, and the increase in the amount of possessions.

A lot of injuries are obviously based on luck, but there's a clear correlation between pace of play and injuries. Then when you take a look at guys like Durant and Cousins tearing the achilles in past years, I'm not sure how we can continue to ignore that data.

I don't recall the Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Barbosa Suns coming down with injuries, and they were an older, faster team team playing deep into the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels

I don't recall the Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Barbosa Suns coming down with injuries, and they were an older, faster team team playing deep into the playoffs.

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That's because even with an elite training staff, this team is still cursed.

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Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels

I don't recall the Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Barbosa Suns coming down with injuries, and they were an older, faster team team playing deep into the playoffs.

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That team ran at a pace of 95.9, which would rank last in the NBA behind the Nuggets at 98.5. Teams are running more now than at any time in NBA history. It's not a coincidence that lower leg injuries are on the rise.

For reference, the Pelicans are currently 5th at 105.5. And Gentry has repeatedly stated that he wants to be even faster. My stance is that he's pushing these players too hard for their capabilities given the relatively short offseason after the FO and roster overhaul.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

That team ran at a pace of 95.9, which would rank last in the NBA behind the Nuggets at 98.5. Teams are running more now than at any time in NBA history. It's not a coincidence that lower leg injuries are on the rise.

For reference, the Pelicans are currently 5th at 105.5. And Gentry has repeatedly stated that he wants to be even faster. My stance is that he's pushing these players too hard for their capabilities given the relatively short offseason after the FO and roster overhaul.

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I think you combine pace with the lack of structure on offense and they create a dangerous situation for our players. A lot of our injuries stem from out of control landings and plays (Favors landed awkwardly while going for an offensive rebound). Pace and free flow offense is fine as long as it is controlled chaos. We are just chaotic

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

I think you combine pace with the lack of structure on offense and they create a dangerous situation for our players. A lot of our injuries stem from out of control landings and plays (Favors landed awkwardly while going for an offensive rebound). Pace and free flow offense is fine as long as it is controlled chaos. We are just chaotic

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It’s exactly what it is.

1 to 4 weeks for back surgery?
That's an interesting timetable.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Take a look at the top 5 teams in pace of play: Bucks, Timberwolves, Rockets, Nets, Pelicans.
Of those teams:
Middleton out with a lower leg injury,
Gordon, Gerald Green, Nene all out with leg injuries
Levert thumb injury
Pelicans injuries are well documented (a majority of which have come in transition plays)

The only team in the top 5 to have any injury luck is the Timberwolves. I think that should at least in part be attributed to the out of shape bodies, the reckless style of play of transition basketball, and the increase in the amount of possessions..

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I think you're being a little hyperbolic here. Yes, we've had some serious serious injury trouble, but as you say, the Wolves haven't really had any and both the Nets and Bucks have had really only one injury, which is entirely standard for any team, playing any pace. So 3 out of the top 5 teams in pace are either uninjured entirely, or not particularly injured compared to the rest of the league.

If your pace proposition was correct, you'd expect to see a big drop-off in injuries when looking at the slowest teams as well. Let's look at the 5 slowest teams:

1- Orlando Magic: Jonathan Isaac injured (day by day)
2- Sacramento Kings: Marvin Bagley fractured thumb, De'Angelo Fox missing a month with severe ankle sprain, Caleb Swanigan injured ankle (day by day)
3- Denver Nuggets: No Injuries
4- New York Knicks: Reggie Bullock cervical disc herniation, out indefinitely, Elfrid Payton hamstring injury out unknown, Mitchell Robinson ankle injury (day by day)
5- Indiana Pacers: Malcolm Brogdon out for back spasms, Jeremy Lamb day to day with ankle injury, TJ McConnell day to day with a groin strain, Edmund Sumner out 3 weeks with fractured hand

So it doesn't seem like playing at a snail's pace is really helping avoid injuries either. The Magic are mostly okay and Denver are fine, but the Knicks, Kings, and Pacers are absolutely hammered right now. Not as bad as us, sure, but worse than the Bucks, worse than the Wolves, and worse than the Nets.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

I think you combine pace with the lack of structure on offense and they create a dangerous situation for our players. A lot of our injuries stem from out of control landings and plays (Favors landed awkwardly while going for an offensive rebound). Pace and free flow offense is fine as long as it is controlled chaos. We are just chaotic

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Yep this is an additional point I was trying to get at. The style of play is completely reckless and clearly resulting in injuries. There needs to be an adjustment, at the very least until these players figure each other out.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If your pace proposition was correct, you'd expect to see a big drop-off in injuries when looking at the slowest teams as well. Let's look at the 5 slowest teams...

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Well stated.

Not to denigrate the original poster's attempt to explain injuries, but there is no specific NBA numerical pace threshold where the human body begins immediately falling apart once beyond it. Sometimes occurrences are random and unexplainable; an uncomfortable circumstance for the way our minds evolved, and is also what gives rise to religion and conspiracy theories: a need to replace frightening randomness with an explanation. /philosophy hat off

I could be wrong. It could have something to do with the newness of the team and getting to know each other. I haven't looked at all the other team's injury stats and compared it to the structure of their offense/defense and how long the team has played together.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

So it doesn't seem like playing at a snail's pace is really helping avoid injuries either. The Magic are mostly okay and Denver are fine, but the Knicks, Kings, and Pacers are absolutely hammered right now. Not as bad as us, sure, but worse than the Bucks, worse than the Wolves, and worse than the Nets.

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Yea my main point is that theres a correlation. Im not at all saying that pace is 100% to blame. Its probably not even 50% to blame; however, my focus is mainly on the leg soft tissue and ligament issues. Of the bottom 5 teams you mentioned, none have players missing with knee injuries, and the only player missing games due to a soft tissue is Elfrid Payton with the hamstring.

Additionally, while the Kings might have the second slowest pace in the NBA, DeAaron Fox plays just about as reckless as anyone.

I just want the Pels at more of a controlled choas, whereas right now I think their play is purely chaotic. I have no medical background, so please take my posts with a grain of salt. These are just observations based on Ball, Hart, and Ingram all being injured on plays in transition.

That's fine. This season is all about player development. All the injuries give the organization all the excuse they need to play rooks big minutes, develop them, and lose games. Hopefully this also allows us to get him back on a cheaper deal for a couple years while Jaxson continues to develop.

More Jax is TIGHT

Guess it’s time to unleash Zion!

To be clear Gentry talked about how Favors was dealing with back spasms last season too. So this isn't an issue of something developing here. He already had something he was dealing with but appears to fully fix it might now require surgery.

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Originally Posted by kinglio21093

That's because even with an elite training staff, this team is still cursed.

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No such thing as curses. Just negatively skewed perception.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

To be clear Gentry talked about how Favors was dealing with back spasms last season too. So this isn't an issue of something developing here. He already had something he was dealing with but appears to fully fix it might now require surgery.

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Predispositions and the like are part of it, but Favors reaggravated whatever was bothering him when he went for that rebound. I’m willing to bet the house that Zion got that injury when he went for that spectacularly risky inbound grab. We need to be a bit more in control of ourselves on the floor. There are obviously things you can’t control, but we put ourselves in these situations at times.

Kavell Bigby Williams, come on down!

Ryan Anderson got waived. In case anyone cares.

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Originally Posted by new city champ

Kavell Bigby Williams, come on down!

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Why? Melli's capable of playing minutes at the stretch 5, we can just feed Hayes 30 minutes a night for development and Okafor should be back soon.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Why? Melli's capable of playing minutes at the stretch 5, we can just feed Hayes 30 minutes a night for development and Okafor should be back soon.

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Melli can’t defend anyone on the court. Especially, not the paint. It can’t hurt to swap Bigby with Zylan, who has done nothing. I’d swap Gray with Adams too

Again, the injury problems started when Monty was here. So it doesnt have anything to do with pace.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

Melli can’t defend anyone on the court. Especially, not the paint. It can’t hurt to swap Bigby with Zylan, who has done nothing. I’d swap Gray with Adams too

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You can't just swap anyone anytime you want. Gray and Cheatham have two way contracts, so we can call them up. To call up some other random, like KVB, you'd have to sign them to a 10 day contract, and I don't think you can even sign 10 day contracts this early into the season (Don't they have a deadline, where you can't sign someone to one before a certain point?).

Even if you could, Melli may not be a defensive stalwart: what makes you think KVB is any different? KVB showed very little in summer league, and Melli at least can shoot which helps space the court.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You can't just swap anyone anytime you want. Gray and Cheatham have two way contracts, so we can call them up. To call up some other random, like KVB, you'd have to sign them to a 10 day contract, and I don't think you can even sign 10 day contracts this early into the season (Don't they have a deadline, where you can't sign someone to one before a certain point?).

Even if you could, Melli may not be a defensive stalwart: what makes you think KVB is any different? KVB showed very little in summer league, and Melli at least can shoot which helps space the court.

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Yeah I just looked it up. They would have to terminate a 2 way contract. I’m a big LSU fan and KVB is a solid rim protector and pick n roll player.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

That's fine. This season is all about player development. All the injuries give the organization all the excuse they need to play rooks big minutes, develop them, and lose games. Hopefully this also allows us to get him back on a cheaper deal for a couple years while Jaxson continues to develop.

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I can assure you, with the roster Griff put together, making this season all about player development is plan C. Especially with the emergence of Ingram.

And still is plan C if some of these injured players can get back on the floor in the next few games.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

I can assure you, with the roster Griff put together, making this season all about player development is plan C. Especially with the emergence of Ingram.

And still is plan C if some of these injured players can get back on the floor in the next few games.

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Player development is 100% the absolute top priority this season. We still have potentially 7 years of Lakers picks combined with our own to build this roster.

Does that mean it's the only thing we want to do? Absolutely not. Especially as you pointed out with the emergence of Ingram. Player development is not a mutually exclusive thing. But it is the top priority, especially because of the massive amount of injuries we've had.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Player development is 100% the absolute top priority this season. We still have potentially 7 years of Lakers picks combined with our own to build this roster.

Does that mean it's the only thing we want to do? Absolutely not. Especially as you pointed out with the emergence of Ingram. Player development is not a mutually exclusive thing. But it is the top priority, especially because of the massive amount of injuries we've had.

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It's not the top priority. It's simply on the list but not at the top.

Establishing a winning culture is top priority and wasn't just lip service. If developing young players was the main aim, then this team would look more like Atlanta. You don't go sign Favors, Redick, and keep Jrue if your top priority is to develop young players, who's best development happens in real NBA games. That is just a complete slap in the face of all 3 of those vets who could have easily signed elsewhere.

Especially now that all three of those players (plus Ingram and Josh) have already established high ceilings within the first 3 weeks in Pelicans uniforms. Even if your *top* priority was somehow just to develop your youth, that has to have changed by now if you have a healthy roster.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

It's not the top priority. It's simply on the list but not at the top.

Establishing a winning culture is top priority and wasn't just lip service. If developing young players was the main aim, then this team would look more like Atlanta. You don't go sign Favors, Redick, and keep Jrue if your top priority is to develop young players, who's best development happens in real NBA games. That is just a complete slap in the face of all 3 of those vets who could have easily signed elsewhere.

Especially now that all three of those players (plus Ingram and Josh) have already established high ceilings within the first 3 weeks in Pelicans uniforms. Even if your *top* priority was somehow just to develop your youth, that has to have changed by now if you have a healthy roster.

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Griffin already stated that he didn't think the market could sustain a Philly or Phoenix level of rebuild here. That's the reason he got Favors and Reddick and kept Jrue. That doesn't mean the top priority isn't player development. It is. That's the reason Griffin has said it's a multi year time table. It's not a slap in the face of any of those players because they all CHOSE to be here. Even Jrue could have demanded a trade but didn't. They knew this was a young team with a lot of development to take place and wanted to be here.

We can cross the bridge of what our priorities actually are healthy when we actually get there. For the foreseeable future at least, it's player development.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Again, the injury problems started when Monty was here. So it doesnt have anything to do with pace.

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The injury problems with Monty were entirely flukey and should not be in your mind when considering our modern problems. Jrue came over from Philly with an undisclosed leg injury and AD is a walking minor injury. If you do want to compare, however, Ryno injured his back in a transition play; and Tyreke was perpetually out of control.

I’m curious to see how many people believe that play style is a cause for the injuries. It’s more than just the pace. I think it’s the knee-jerk reckless play along with pace that does it. “Oh you go this way, so I’ll go that way” movements. When players are constantly changing direction, I can’t help but think it takes its toll on the body. Bottom line is that the team injuries could probably benefit from more on court structure.

Regardless of whether it causes injury, the Pelicans have to get better from the halfcourt.

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Originally Posted by Primetime

Regardless of whether it causes injury, the Pelicans have to get better from the halfcourt.

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Amen. Been saying it for years. We have only managed to stay somewhat competitive because of talent and depth. We have to become a better team in general.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Amen. Been saying it for years. We have only managed to stay somewhat competitive because of talent and depth. We have to become a better team in general.

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Which is why most of us blame Alvin for the team underachieving every year.

We aren't even the fastest paced team in the league. And if we are, it's not by a significant margin. And yet, none of the other teams have similar injury histories.

Pace isn't the issue. There isn't really an issue. It's just happening. Us people love to find meaning behind things. Makes this cruel, indifferent universe something palatable. Something we can understand and even control.

I guess this is a blessing in disguise. NAW and Hayes will get so much PT it will allow them to mature and adapt to the game much faster. I wish we could see a ball,jrue,Ingram,Zion,Favors lineup but I guess we can settle for developing the young core.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

We aren't even the fastest paced team in the league. And if we are, it's not by a significant margin. And yet, none of the other teams have similar injury histories.

Pace isn't the issue. There isn't really an issue. It's just happening. Us people love to find meaning behind things. Makes this cruel, indifferent universe something palatable. Something we can understand and even control.

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I sincerely hope the medical staff isnt taking that opinion, as we'll never find a cause if that's the case. I outlined the injuries that the teams above us have had as well. Gordon and Middleton are both already out with significant lower leg injuries.

This is an actual important thing to monitor considering the absurd frequency of our injuries. We've been at the top of the league in pace for 3 straight years and have had consistent roster turnover throughout those years. That means that we're bringing in players who are not used to running this much and asking them to do so on a nightly basis. It may be nothing, but it should at the very least be considered as a plausible reason.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I sincerely hope the medical staff isnt taking that opinion, as we'll never find a cause if that's the case. I outlined the injuries that the teams above us have had as well. Gordon and Middleton are both already out with significant lower leg injuries.

This is an actual important thing to monitor considering the absurd frequency of our injuries. We've been at the top of the league in pace for 3 straight years and have had consistent roster turnover throughout those years. That means that we're bringing in players who are not used to running this much and asking them to do so on a nightly basis. It may be nothing, but it should at the very least be considered as a plausible reason.

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The new beat writer Christian Clark talked about it in his pod. He agrees with you. He mentioned Favors and how coming from a much slower system could result in the body not being used to constant running. These thoughts are not being overlooked. The team is aware of it and Clark believes adjustments are being made.

Did Clark also mention/know that Favors had knee and back issues from playing in the Jazz’ slow paced system?

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

Did Clark also mention/know that Favors had knee and back issues from playing in the Jazz’ slow paced system?

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Favors played 76 games last season and 77 the season before

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Favors played 76 games last season and 77 the season before

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Is that a way to avoid the question? Favors suffered from knee soreness and back spasms while in Utah.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

Is that a way to avoid the question? Favors suffered from knee soreness and back spasms while in Utah.

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This isnt a deposition. All I'm trying to do is come up with some potential answers in this thread. I'm really not even focused on Favors in particular since his is a back issue. Its not an attack on anyone, its just an open dialogue on the injury issue instead of just tossing everything up to chance and bad luck.

Some of it is chance and bad luck, unfortunately.

Some of it is also due to general injury-prone dispositions. Can anyone deny that Lonzo, for example, has been generally injury prone even before coming to the Pels? The dude played 47 games last year, and 52 the year before, and those were on teams that (while fast at the time) would be considered relatively slow teams today: Lonzo's rookie Lakers played with a pace of 100.2, which was good for 2nd in the NBA that year but doesn't crack the top 20 so far this year (100.3 is the Jazz's current pace, 20th in the league).

Similarly, with BI, while he played 79 games in his rookie year, he followed it up with 59 in his sophomore season and 52 last year. Is there any reason we should be blaming this on pace rather than just his general physical tendency towards injury/illness?

What about Hart? 63 games his rookie year, 67 games his second year: missing 15+ games is normal for him so far in his career.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

This isnt a deposition. All I'm trying to do is come up with some potential answers in this thread. I'm really not even focused on Favors in particular since his is a back issue. Its not an attack on anyone, its just an open dialogue on the injury issue instead of just tossing everything up to chance and bad luck.

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Totally fair, and I didn’t mean for my post to be so short. Understand I’m just frustrated on the topic like everyone else, as it makes no sense and is entirely unfair to us as fans.

I’ve heard this blame placed on pace, and I certainly don’t think it’s completely without validity. More plays run, more chance for injury is something to consider for sure. But making it the reason, while also blaming running a lot. And if someone is using Favors as an example of their hypothesis, I have to call BS. Especially knowing that Favors came here with these exact same injuries suffered last season on a slow paced Jazz team.

Lonzo, Hart and Ingram were all injured last season at various points, before they ever came here.

My nature is to be completely against simply saying bad luck. No, I don’t think this many years of off the chart suffering is coincidence. But I don’t like the idea of saying all of our injuries comes from making our guys run. The whole league pushes pace. No one has had to deal with the issues that we have over such a long period of time.

Well the team hasnt said anything about surgery for Favors yet.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

This isnt a deposition. All I'm trying to do is come up with some potential answers in this thread. I'm really not even focused on Favors in particular since his is a back issue. Its not an attack on anyone, its just an open dialogue on the injury issue instead of just tossing everything up to chance and bad luck.

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Seems he has a history.

https://www.slcdunk.com/nba-free-age...xtension-worry

Are we better without Favors? I say yes. Cut him!