I'm not sure the prognosis on Ingram is as dire as it's made out to be
https://www.latimes.com/sports/laker...316-story.html
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I'm not sure the prognosis on Ingram is as dire as it's made out to be
https://www.latimes.com/sports/laker...316-story.html
All signs point to Ingram being fine. He has progressed every season since he came in the league, Kuzma regressed last season. Ingram is better on D than Kuzma.
Ingram is the better player now, and has alot more room to grow, Kuzma is who he will be throughout his career
Ingram regressed last season in 3pt %age, FT%, rebounds per game, assists per game, steals per game, blocks per game, net rating, PER, WS/48, total winshares, BPM, and VORP. What do you mean he's ''progressed every season since he came into the league''? You can only really say that if you mean PPG only.
Jrue's window is much shorter than Zion's and Ja's. This team will NOT be a contender if you go completely young. For Jrue's sake, you trade him to a team that can win now with him as the missing piece.
So, yes, you do trade away a Top 20 player, when he doesnt fit the timeline. He would probably ask for a trade if the Pels went uber young.
Trajan Langdon: "We want to win, but we want to build this team the right way, with the right people... I don't think you can be in a win-now mode when you're trying to build the right culture.... You can't skip steps. That was one thing we did in Brooklyn (that worked)."
— Jim Eichenhofer (@Jim_Eichenhofer) May 21, 2019
Sounds like Langdon agrees with me there.
Yeah, I dont think that entails a complete youth movement. If you are a 28yr old all star, the idea is to win. He's 4 yrs away from the other side of the hill.
How does mentoring ZION equate to " Man, im all in on a youth movement, even it means I will never win a cotton picking thing. He can mentor ZION and get Taum, Brown and a 25 mill per FA and be in the playoffs expediently.
Supposedly Brooklyn is gonna try to get AD. Wonder if he will sign there? They want to add him and Kyrie according to Chris Broussard
Brooklyn: AD
Pelicans: sign & trade De’Angelo Russell, Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen, Joe Harris, and picks 17 & 27.
C: Allen, Okafor
PF: Zion
SF: LeVert, Harris
SG: Jrue
PG: Russell
Not sure we could get all that, but I would try. Stinks that LeVert & Harris only have 1 year left on their deals. I think I would do that deal if we could resign either LeVert or Harris on a decent extension. I like Russell a lot. Allen looks like a good starting center. Have them pick who we want at 17 & 27 since free agency is after the draft. Or trade up for a player we want lol. Or can you do a sign & trade at anytime? I don’t know how that works lol
I like this over the Lakers deal since we get a bonafide starting center. Too bad he only has 2 years remaining as well. Russell is an All Star that will just be hitting his prime in this contract and allow Jrue to stay at the 2. LeVert & Harris are two damn good wings. We would add some shooting for sure. We would have to decide which one we would want to extend though cause doubt we could keep them both. Then if we get one or both those picks we either get 1 or 2 more rookies to grow with Zion. Let’s make this happen!!
An entire "youth movement" is unlikely and a bit preposterous. It is NOT going to happen. We have Jrue for a while. I could see him going to a contender in a couple of seasons but this isn't 2k. You don't just throw a bunch of players together and they perform. You have to build a culture and chemistry. Jrue is absolutely the best person for that.
No, a competitve 28yr old all-star (29 in June). that has never sniffed being a contender is NOT on a team to instill a culture. He is there to win.
You are taking the position of the organization & it is quite myopic. Jrue will have Zero problem instilling a culture, but thats not his overarching goal. His goal is to WIN !
Im not aware of 33-34-35 being solid years.
If we are trying to compete for a mid playoff seed immediately, then I'm all in w/ Jrue. If not, and we go full blown youth movement (which I'm fine with), then for both the Pels & Jrues sake -you trade Jrue.
Any trade will be agreed to before the draft, but not executed until the new league year. Therefore, they can effectively package both as the official trade would be the "draft rights" of the 2019 pick (which would have been made based on the Pelicans' wishes) and the 2020 pick. Once the 2019 pick is made, they can trade the 2020 pick.
His FG% increased, his 3 pt decreased some and everything else is pretty much the same. His defense improved, (blocks and steals are not all defense is about), and when Lebron went down and he was allowed to go back into his role he is comfortable in, he went on an absolute tear..
4 team deal between Nola, Memphis, Chicago, and LA.
Memphis:
LA #4 pick
Chi #7 pick
Chicago:
Lonzo
LAL:
Anthony Davis
Kris Dunn
NOP:
MEM #2 pick
Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart
Kuzma
NOP obviously uses the Memphis pick on Ja Morant.
Then, assuming Al Horford opts in, offer Solomon Hill and Kuzma to the Celtics for Al Horford. Celtics would most likely do this in order to free up space for another star, and this allows the Pels to put a good center next to Zion for a year while he grows. I do not think Kuzma is a great fit, but he's still a decent young asset from LA.
This would leave us at approximately 97 million in cap, with the cap set at 109 million for next season. We could most likely unload Etwaun Moore and a few other pieces as well if we wanted to make a run at a restricted free agent such as Malcom Brogdon.
A starting five next year of Ja-Jrue-Ingram-Zion-Horford would be extremely fun to watch on both ends of the floor and also an incredibly hungry one that fits the changes that have been made throughout the organization.
Here's a very detailed article by Ryan Bernardoni about how a trade would work within the cap. This is specifically about a potential deal between Boston and New Orleans, but some of the principles apply to other suitors as well. There's a chance wherever AD goes, that the deal might not be official until a while later a la the Wiggins/Love trade, a swap David Griffin was involved in.
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/...y-davis-trade/
That is Jrue's decision. He already made his claim that he is excited. So, stop putting words in Jrue's mouth and let the man decide. Andre Iguodala is still a big contributor at 35. A 100% youth movement is a risky gamble. There needs to be balance. If Jrue wants to be that person. Let him be.
Interesting that he puts the odds of an AD to Boston trade at less than 50/50.
I didn't go into the intricacies of making it work from the Lakers side but the basic outline of the trade from a cap perspective is fine. I think they could do so by manipulating Alex Caruso's contract among a few other things. The trade works from every other teams perspective.
Hope Nets jump in to stoke the bidding, but I'm not sure Allen, or Mitchell Robinson for that matter, fits what the Pels want at center, which is a big who can shoot in the manner of a Gasol, Lopez or Vucevic. I'm not sure that's a deal breaker, as I love an aggressive rim defender to anchor our defense even if they have offensive limitations. But early indications are that Griffin values shooting ability at all positions and the Pels are already a little short on that capability.
Agree. Griffin and Langdon have both been clear about building the right culture and not rushing things the way Demps tried to do. If Davis wants the organization to make moves to accommodate his immediate timeline, then you trade him for sure. My worry is that they'll try to split the baby and get Davis to agree to opt into the final year of his current deal giving the Pels a one-season window to convince him to sign longterm or trade him next summer with a year left on his deal. To me either Davis agrees to sign a max deal now, or you trade him, no in-between measures. Personally, as good as Davis is, I'd be wary of giving him a max deal given his track record and the financial limitations it would put on Griffin's ability to build a complete roster. I think I'd rather just move on and start anew with Zion + assets, though that's the less certain path.
I get why they would give Davis a super max contract, but I wouldn't. It's way too much of the cap for a guy that deals with consistent health concerns yearly and you don't look at him as a guy that will guarantee a team the 8 spot so long as he's on the team.
I'm fine with us saying we want to keep him, but really I'm just hoping were trying to keep his trade value intact.
Oh Gracious, another one? I never said Jrue said anything. Nice mechanism, but been used before. All I said was -If your gonna go full youth, trade Jrue for more 1st Rd picks &/or specialty players. If you take a Boston deal or a deal that brings Tatum or Brown or Smart or Ingram , then Jrue will fit nicely with a team that will compete immediately.
But you just need to stop with the made-up narratives. Tedious!
So Devil's advocate. What would it take for you to say yes to Los Angeles? A commitment from Lonzo? A clean bill of health for Ingram?
I would need a clean bill of health for Ingram and a place to flip Lonzo. Its pretty clear from Griffin and Langdon's statements today that they're trying to build a certain atmosphere here. And the Ball family just does not fit. I like Lonzo's potential, but on-court ability is not always as valuable as mentality, leadership, and effort. They want guys that are going to buy in.
The length of Ingram is so intriguing to me next to Jrue and Zion. His offensive game is extremely underrated as well. Ingram and Giannis' age 21 seasons are incredibly similar, and Ingram clearly has a higher ceiling shooting-wise. I'm not trying to say that Ingram will ever be close to as good as Giannis, but people seem to ignore the fact that he's 21 years old and has improved every season, despite playing in an extremely poor environment.
The 4th pick will produce a very good player whether it be Garland, Culver, or a dark-horse. We've seen guys like Dame and Brad Beal skyrocket up draft boards with great workouts, so I expect that will happen as we get closer to the draft and that 4th pick will have more value than is perceived right now.
Again, the dream is coming out of this thing with Ja and Ingram, but we'll see if that is possible.
My only issue is that I just don't see Memphis giving up the 2nd pick.
I still like Celtics deal along with a trade for Beal. It would put all our players on different time lines. You try to put a good team together for a playoff run. If it doesn’t work next year trade Beal and or Tatum for early picks. You should get good value since they have a year left on their contracts at good value. If you go total youth movement then trade Jrue next year plus he’d have 2 years left on his good contract.
Next year is suppose to be a good year for PGs so if we can’t get Ja just be ready for next year. I’d think Zion and Culver would be good this year and then next year if we underachieve trade Jrue for high first and grab 2 really good players with our pick and what we get for Jrue.
Can somebody actually point to me to something, other than points per game, that Ingram has improved at consistently in his 3 years in the league?
Cause I've seen a few people now saying that he's consistently improved every year, and it's just not true at all. It's not represented by any stats. His defense hasn't improved significantly, and may have taken a step back since year two. His three point shooting is significantly worse this year than last. His FT% is down. His net rating has gone from a negative, to an even worse negative. His PER has dropped, and it was below average to begin with. His VORP is a negative, and that's down from last year where it was a negative. His WS/48 are down, and they've taken that fall from less than .100 to begin with, which is already poor.
His rebounding numbers are down, his assists per game are down despite having the same number of turnovers, his fouls per game are up (albeit only slightly) and he's averaging less blocks and steals now than last year. Where is the improvement?
I get that he had a cool handful of games after the trade deadline last season. I get that. But that's not the same as ''consistently improving'' every year. That's having a hot streak.
I forgot to add that they had to take Hill back toom
I don't mind Ingram being in the deal if he is healthy, but I really want no part of the Ball sideshow. I am pretty much in the same boat as Mythrol. The Lakers' assets don't excite me at all and it certainly wouldn't be enough of a package for one of the best players in the NBA. So to answer your question, the only way I can see moving AD to LA would be if LA prearranged deals acquiring players and picks that I would want.
In my opinion, and maybe this is my own wishful thinking, but Griffen just announced to teams a part of what it would take to land Davis: Ja Morant. He went out of his way to say they met with both Zion and Ja but did not mention RJ Barrett or anyone else. I think they really do want to keep AD but if they trade him I think ideally Griffen prefers a package that includes Morant.
I also think Grizzlies put themselves into the trade conversation last week when they announced they were taking Morant. It says to the Knicks that they can’t sit back and hope Morant falls to them to use ina trade to land AD. It said to the Lakers make some moves and let’s talk. I think it will be AD and Zion or it’ll be Zion and Ja.
Grizzlies haven't put themselves in the trade conversation. They said they're taking Morant, and I believe that the reason for that is because they want Ja Morant. They're in a rebuild too, they don't attract free agents, and they just drafted a future big in Jaren Jackson. It makes sense they want a dynamic PG to go with him as Conley ages out.
The point behind wanting more than 2 additional 1st from them is so that we get 1sts after Lebron is gone. That's why I'd want at a minimum 3 additional picks because I want some that go into like 2023 and beyond. The 1st with Lebron and AD there aren't going to be worth a lot or shouldn't, but those after he retires has a chance of being top notch.