Free Agency 2023

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

Is it a guarantee that Trey is back to the bench this year? I really hope they consider Trey for CJ in the starting lineup.

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I agree with you, but it will be hard for them to bench $33.3MM (especially if you want to unload him before his contract expires). I suppose they will try to force that square peg into the round hole until he's gone in order to justify his extension.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

Is it a guarantee that Trey is back to the bench this year? I really hope they consider Trey for CJ in the starting lineup.

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CJ to the bench in place of Trey would work well with everyone healthy. But one of them needs to be in the second unit. I have heard people talk about sliding TM3 into Herbs spot at SF and that I don't like because it depletes the 2nd unit of scoring too much.

A healthy starting unit of CJ, Trey, Jonas, Zion, and BI would be a match up nightmare for any team!
A bench group of Herb, Dyson, Jose, Nance, and say Naji is a defensive grouping that most 2nd units do not want to deal with.
That said, Willie normally plays a starter or 2 with the 2nd unit, I cannot see how this is a bad idea!

And at this point in the discussion we have not even discussed the roles of EJ, Hawkins, Zeller, or any other player who might make the team.

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Originally Posted by redrum

A healthy starting unit of CJ, Trey, Jonas, Zion, and BI would be a match up nightmare for any team!
A bench group of Herb, Dyson, Jose, Nance, and say Naji is a defensive grouping that most 2nd units do not want to deal with.
That said, Willie normally plays a starter or 2 with the 2nd unit, I cannot see how this is a bad idea!

And at this point in the discussion we have not even discussed the roles of EJ, Hawkins, Zeller, or any other player who might make the team.

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Yeah I fully disagree that looks super unbalanced.

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Originally Posted by redrum

A healthy starting unit of CJ, Trey, Jonas, Zion, and BI would be a match up nightmare for any team!
A bench group of Herb, Dyson, Jose, Nance, and say Naji is a defensive grouping that most 2nd units do not want to deal with.
That said, Willie normally plays a starter or 2 with the 2nd unit, I cannot see how this is a bad idea!

And at this point in the discussion we have not even discussed the roles of EJ, Hawkins, Zeller, or any other player who might make the team.

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I think a fully healthy lineup by season’s end looks like this…

PG: McCullum/Alvarado
SG: Ingram/Hawkins
SF: Jones/Daniels
PF: Zion/Murphy (6th man)
C: JV/Nance

Marshall, and Zeller are the 11th and 12th men.
Daniels will get some time playing point forward. He will be the Herb of the second unit.
Hawkins’ minutes will depend fullly on how consistent his shot becomes.
McCullum has 2 years max left on this team before he is traded so the Pels can pay Trey and Dyson rises up to be the team’s true PG.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

Is it a guarantee that Trey is back to the bench this year? I really hope they consider Trey for CJ in the starting lineup.

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I concur. Trey needs to start and CJ off the bench would cook. That being said I don?t see it happening.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Yeah I fully disagree that looks super unbalanced.

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I start the 5 best players, then make adjustments when needed.

Defenses last season would funnel the ball to Herb hoping he would shoot.
Let them try that with Trey. Opens up the floor completely.

Dyson, Alvarado, and Nance are pests, they should all be limited to about 15 - 20 MPG.
Some match ups more, some less.

Herb might win 6th man of the year entering the game for CJ, BI, Zion, or Trey whoever needs a blow.
He would still get close to 30 MPG. Think Michael Cooper "Showtime Lakers".

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Originally Posted by redrum

I start the 5 best players, then make adjustments when needed.

Defenses last season would funnel the ball to Herb hoping he would shoot.
Let them try that with Trey. Opens up the floor completely.

Dyson, Alvarado, and Nance are pests, they should all be limited to about 15 - 20 MPG.
Some match ups more, some less.

Herb might win 6th man of the year entering the game for CJ, BI, Zion, or Trey whoever needs a blow.
He would still get close to 30 MPG. Think Michael Cooper "Showtime Lakers".

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Having a wing stopper to matchup defensively against the opponent's best scorer is super important. We don't need Herb trying to lock down some random guy on the opponent's bench, that is ridiculous. And there are only so many shots to go around, with Zion, BI, JV, and CJ on the floor either TM3 wouldn't be getting the touches he needs, or other guys wouldnt be getting the touches they should get. "start the 5 best players" is an oversimplification if your best players have overlapping skills and attributes then you dont start 5 small guards obviously. Either TM3 or CJ needs to come off the bench to provide scoring for the 2nd unit while allowing the 1st unit to have some defense on the floor.

I think best case scenario is CJ off the bench playing starter minutes. He is easily good enough to be in the starting lineup, it’s just more of an issue with too many chefs in the kitchen. I think if CJ was known for more of an off ball game he would be a better fit. He also played in a very ugly Blazers offensive scheme that relied on he and Lillard heavily. That has crept in to his play from time to time.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Having a wing stopper to matchup defensively against the opponent's best scorer is super important. We don't need Herb trying to lock down some random guy on the opponent's bench, that is ridiculous. And there are only so many shots to go around, with Zion, BI, JV, and CJ on the floor either TM3 wouldn't be getting the touches he needs, or other guys wouldnt be getting the touches they should get. "start the 5 best players" is an oversimplification if your best players have overlapping skills and attributes then you dont start 5 small guards obviously. Either TM3 or CJ needs to come off the bench to provide scoring for the 2nd unit while allowing the 1st unit to have some defense on the floor.

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I agree with this. I will also say, if you've got 5 small guards on your roster, then your roster construction sucks.

You guys can believe whatever you want, but if you watched the games last year, way too many possessions ended with a missed Herb corner 3.
This is exactly what the opposition wanted, that or a JV shot outside of the paint.
It is easy to pay extra attention to Zion and BI when a defense is SO willing to encourage Herb to shoot.

To the points about Herb"s D, do you really think he is shutting down Tatum, Durant, LeBron, or any other elite wing player? He is not!
Herb is actually letting them help on Zion or BI or rest while sitting in the corner on defense.

To me, and I get you guys do not agree,
Trey's defense is good enough to not stop elite players either, but his offense makes them work on D and not help nearly as much.

Remember now, I am saying both players get about 30 minutes a game, I just think Herb's game is most valuable off the bench.
He can sub for anyone but JV, and i think his game would flourish in a sixth man role.

To me, the 6th man is more important than the 4th and 5th starter. Therefore, I would plug Trey in as the 6th man and I wouldn't feel bad about it at all. It's a compliment. And he balances out the rotations insanely well.

You can make a good argument for that 6th guy to be Trey, Herb or CJ. I think maybe in the end it won't really matter that much and will probably change via experimentation. And you could even go small and have them all on the floor at times.

I am also on team CJ as the 6th man. In my ideal world Dyson would be able to shoot the three good enough to start but that is not happening yet so start TM3. I dont see CJ as just an off ball guy I think he can create off the dribble too, but he is best at getting his own shot and does not set other guys up well enough. That type of mindset should work on the 2nd unit.