You guys, I think we need to pay Lonzo

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The Clippers, with a well-chronicled need for a playmaking upgrade, are exploring trade routes to acquiring New Orleans' Lonzo Ball before next Thursday's NBA trade deadline, league sources say.

— Marc Stein (@TheSteinLine) March 19, 2021

Funnily enough, what the Clips need most is a penetrator who can threaten the rim and create collapses, and Lonzo is very much not that.

But if they want to cough up or facilitate a three way for him, I'm in.

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I'm down for some Kennard plus assets. We need a deep switch up.

The problem with the Clippers is they only have one first rounder available for trade...in 2027. So what would a trade look like with that in mind and Kennard? I guess something like this?

https://tradenba.com/trades/lN1Bq72qb

I don't want to pay Lonzo, the main reason being that he doesn't know what to do when he drives into a congested lane

His brother Melo is amazing at it

Mods pls edit accordingly

Lonzo does make those pretty cool pocket passes well, but he never really bends the defense. Again like Melo does

And his mid range game is worse than terrible

Just let him be snapped up by New York or whatever. Chicago, Charlotte.

I'm starting to think a sign and trade is the highest outcome if all parties are on board.

The other team gets his Bird Rights which is a big incentive

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yxrh5b93

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yxrh5b93

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lol

Why wouldn't Sac Town trade their franchise guy for Lonzo

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yglvtcep

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yglvtcep

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https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m...dvx9o1_400.gif

Well if the Knicks want Lonzo give us RJ and Zion will never leave us. Add a draft pick or two as well.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yf4kdts7

Lonzo and a few 1sts for Barrett maybe

He's virtually their franchise guy

The trade could happen but I don't see it happening. They could just sign him in FA

Interestingly enough, I'm sure Griff and Trajan proposing a trade from a team nobody thought we would deal with. One of our guards is gone for sure. Bled or Lonzo (and JJ) gotta go. We've been trying to draw interest in those guys for a while, now it's time to off load one of them and hopefully get a decent return so we can grow our younger prospects.

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Originally Posted by hornetzplaya

Interestingly enough, I'm sure Griff and Trajan proposing a trade from a team nobody thought we would deal with. One of our guards is gone for sure. Bled or Lonzo (and JJ) gotta go. We've been trying to draw interest in those guys for a while, now it's time to off load one of them and hopefully get a decent return so we can grow our younger prospects.

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Which of the other 29 teams would seriously want Bledsoe?

None, so immediately you have to start attaching assets which pisses me off

JJ is probably gone for a second rounder

Lonzo is probably here past the deadline

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Which of the other 29 teams would seriously want Bledsoe?

None, so immediately you have to start attaching assets which pisses me off

JJ is probably gone for a second rounder

Lonzo is probably here past the deadline

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I'd be willing to expend 1 and MAYBE 2 picks depending on the return. Plus with Bleds contract only 3.9M in 2022-23 season that can maybe be an asset. But I'm not optimistic about any potential return from him.

The ESPN trade machine just proves how idiotic people can be these days. The same goes for trade threads on Pelicans Report. Mr. McNamara is right about that.

Questionable for Sunday’s game?

Perhaps it means nothing, but Luke Kennard has not hit the floor tonight for the Clippers at all.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Perhaps it means nothing, but Luke Kennard has not hit the floor tonight for the Clippers at all.

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Well, he did play the final 6:30.

Let’s just do this now...

Lonzo and Eric Bledsoe

For

Luke Kennard, Patrick Beverley (bridge to Kira starting who adds D and veteran leadership), Lou Williams (expiring), and M. Kapengele

then buyout or trade Redick for a 2nd round pick.

Lineup:

PG: Beverley/Lewis
SG: Kennard/Williams (FA)/NAW
SF: Ingram/Hart (re-sign)
PF: Zion/Kapengele/Melli (FA) /Gabriel (TO)
C: Adams/Hayes/Hernangomez (FA)

Why would you start Kennard over NAW?

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Let?s just do this now...

Lonzo and Eric Bledsoe

For

Luke Kennard, Patrick Beverley (bridge to Kira starting who adds D and veteran leadership), Lou Williams (expiring), and M. Kapengele

then buyout or trade Redick for a 2nd round pick.

Lineup:

PG: Beverley/Lewis
SG: Kennard/Williams (FA)/NAW
SF: Ingram/Hart (re-sign)
PF: Zion/Kapengele/Melli (FA) /Gabriel (TO)
C: Adams/Hayes/Hernangomez (FA)

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I wouldn?t mind this trade with the exception of Lou Williams being traded to a third team for a pick and another expiring.


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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I wouldn?t mind this trade with the exception of Lou Williams being traded to a third team for a pick and another expiring.


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I agree. For example Lou to the 76ers for Ferguson/Korkmaz and a 2nd round pick.

Griff is looking for contracts and picks for Lonzo to move in the 'Big deal' this offseason/next year

When thinking of your Lonzo trades, dont think about guys you want here long term. Think about assets and tradeable salaries to attach to Bledsoe, a young guy or two and some other picks to go get the big fish. Thats what Griff is trying to do

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Griff is looking for contracts and picks for Lonzo to move in the 'Big deal' this offseason/next year

When thinking of your Lonzo trades, dont think about guys you want here long term. Think about assets and tradeable salaries to attach to Bledsoe, a young guy or two and some other picks to go get the big fish. Thats what Griff is trying to do

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Great Call Mac. I feel the same way, This trade will be, if made, for the assets it brings and not necessarily the players.

Further, I think they'd like to find something 'enticing' that they can couple with Adams when he becomes tradable in the summer.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Great Call Mac. I feel the same way, This trade will be, if made, is for the assets it brings and not necessarily the players.

Further, I think they'd like to find something 'enticing' that they can couple with Adams when he becomes tradable in the summer.

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To be fair, its not a "call" -- it is direct info from people involved.

But that is the goal - to take a huge swing this summer, or at the latest before next trade deadline, and to do that he needs assets and expiring salary. Or even if he gets a guy like Cam Reddish, he would be in the eventual big trade.

So if Lonzo is traded (I am still skeptical), dont look at the deal in a vacuum. It is a set up trade for the next one

It depends on how we finish on whether I want to pay Lonzo. If it looks like we will end up with a top 6 pick than I would rather not pay him unless Mobley ends up being my pick. But if it looks like we will pick at the end of the lottery than I may want him back. It?s hard to find guys as talented as him everyday. Cause if we end up with Cade, Green, Kuminga, Barnes, or Suggs than I would rather have them start with either Kira, NAW, or even BI(if we end up with Kuminga or Barnes) in the backcourt.

His shot has improved so much that I may be willing to pay him, but I may have to have his word that he would be ok starting at the 2. So if a trade comes to fruition that is too good to pass up I?m jumping on it. Cause I would be fine with a possible Kira & NAW backcourt if I don?t end up with a right away starting caliber player in the draft.

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

It depends on how we finish on whether I want to pay Lonzo. If it looks like we will end up with a top 6 pick than I would rather not pay him unless Mobley ends up being my pick. But if it looks like we will pick at the end of the lottery than I may want him back. It?s hard to find guys as talented as him everyday. Cause if we end up with Cade, Green, Kuminga, Barnes, or Suggs than I would rather have them start with either Kira, NAW, or even BI(if we end up with Kuminga or Barnes) in the backcourt.

His shot has improved so much that I may be willing to pay him, but I may have to have his word that he would be ok starting at the 2. So if a trade comes to fruition that is too good to pass up I?m jumping on it. Cause I would be fine with a possible Kira & NAW backcourt if I don?t end up with a right away starting caliber player in the draft.

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If you keep Zo, you are investing heavy money into a core I just personally don't leave in that much from a mental makeup standpoint and skill set. We all know Zo is improving, but even at his peak, I just don't think with the assembled core it will ever generate us as a top 4 team in the West.

Alot of fans are not looking at the long term implications of the core when committing, and honestly I just don't want us to be mediocre, because it will be AD all over again.

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Originally Posted by Silverfoxx

If you keep Zo, you are investing heavy money into a core I just personally don't leave in that much from a mental makeup standpoint and skill set. We all know Zo is improving, but even at his peak, I just don't think with the assembled core it will ever generate us as a top 4 team in the West.

Alot of fans are not looking at the long term implications of the core when committing, and honestly I just don't want us to be mediocre, because it will be AD all over again.

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This is the point that I've made, and that Shamit has made, and that a bunch of other people have made, but it's one that seems to be avoided a lot.

People love to talk about what they would pay Lonzo in the abstract, but they don't often situate it in reality.

The question is not ''what do you think Lonzo would be worth'' in some vague, generalised sense; the question is ''how much are you willing to pay to keep this team together?''. This sub-500, defensively-terrible, 11th seeded team.

Are you willing to cap yourself out for the entirety of Zion's time with the Pels until he's free to go elsewhere in year 7 for this team? If so, by all means empty out the pockets for Lonzo and Hart. If not, you have hard decisions to make.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

To be fair, its not a "call" -- it is direct info from people involved.

But that is the goal - to take a huge swing this summer, or at the latest before next trade deadline, and to do that he needs assets and expiring salary. Or even if he gets a guy like Cam Reddish, he would be in the eventual big trade.

So if Lonzo is traded (I am still skeptical), dont look at the deal in a vacuum. It is a set up trade for the next one

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And who realistically will be available for a “big move” besides maybe Beal? Maybe Lavine, but I doubt Chicago gives up on it’s young core.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Griff is looking for contracts and picks for Lonzo to move in the 'Big deal' this offseason/next year

When thinking of your Lonzo trades, dont think about guys you want here long term. Think about assets and tradeable salaries to attach to Bledsoe, a young guy or two and some other picks to go get the big fish. Thats what Griff is trying to do

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Wouldn?t Beverley and Kennard fit that scenario?


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Originally Posted by Sleeper

Wouldn?t Beverley and Kennard fit that scenario?


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And how does that move the needle for the Clippers this year? Two teams have to agree to the trade

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

And who realistically will be available for a “big move” besides maybe Beal? Maybe Lavine, but I doubt Chicago gives up on it’s young core.

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29 teams will lose this year and that gives a ton of guys an opportunity to be over it and seek out greener grass. Would you have predicted midway through last season that Harden would put in a trade demand in the offseason?

I try not to guess which guy will want out any more. I just know that recent history says 2-3 All Star level players will be moved ever year or so. And if not in the offseason, some guy will be disappointed with his teams slow start next year before the trade deadline. Trying to figure out who those guys will be is a fools errand

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

This is the point that I've made, and that Shamit has made, and that a bunch of other people have made, but it's one that seems to be avoided a lot.

People love to talk about what they would pay Lonzo in the abstract, but they don't often situate it in reality.

The question is not ''what do you think Lonzo would be worth'' in some vague, generalised sense; the question is ''how much are you willing to pay to keep this team together?''. This sub-500, defensively-terrible, 11th seeded team.

Are you willing to cap yourself out for the entirety of Zion's time with the Pels until he's free to go elsewhere in year 7 for this team? If so, by all means empty out the pockets for Lonzo and Hart. If not, you have hard decisions to make.

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It's not a hard decision IMO. It's just gonna involve a lot of PR clean up I'd wager. But screw it. It allows us upward mobility.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

And how does that move the needle for the Clippers this year? Two teams have to agree to the trade

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Depends how much the Clippers value Lonzo Ball. He is definitely an upgrade over Beverley and Kennard who barely plays for them. It’s not a bad trade for the Clippers. They get younger and more talented at point guard in the deal without hurting their team much at all. Lou is about to be on his year to year min tour if he wants to win or he will take a 2-3 year deal like Redick did with the Pels.

Clippers lineup

PG: Ball/Jackson
SG: George/Bledsoe
SF: Leonard/Batum
PF: Morris/Patterson
C: Ibaka/Zubac

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

It's not a hard decision IMO. It's just gonna involve a lot of PR clean up I'd wager. But screw it. It allows us upward mobility.

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Personally I agree, it's not a very hard decision at all, but it would be for the people who really like Lonzo but just think he needs XYZ to really blossom.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Personally I agree, it's not a very hard decision at all, but it would be for the people who really like Lonzo but just think he needs XYZ to really blossom.

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I’ll be glad when those individuals follow Lonzo to his next destination. They have infested the Pels fanbase with their toxic attitudes.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

To be fair, its not a "call" -- it is direct info from people involved.

But that is the goal - to take a huge swing this summer, or at the latest before next trade deadline, and to do that he needs assets and expiring salary. Or even if he gets a guy like Cam Reddish, he would be in the eventual big trade.

So if Lonzo is traded (I am still skeptical), dont look at the deal in a vacuum. It is a set up trade for the next one

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If that is the intent, I wonder if the internal struggles is whether Ball, on an extension, is more valuable in a trade than an expiring deal.

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Originally Posted by DaFranchise80

I’ll be glad when those individuals follow Lonzo to his next destination. They have infested the Pels fanbase with their toxic attitudes.

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Yeah, there are some people who go just way too far with it.

I get people disagreeing with me, that happens all the time and we can have those discussions and arguments.

But there are somehow still people who think that Lonzo is just this all-time great, top-5 player in waiting who is being oppressed by SVG and David Griffin. The sort of people who get online after every game to complain about how he isn't getting the ball enough, isn't getting enough shots, isn't getting the offense run through him.

Somehow these people never seem to realise that Lonzo is putting up career highers in ppg, 2pt%, 3pt%, 3pt volume, FT%, TS%, BPM, and WS/48 all while simultaneously hitting career lows in TOV% and PFr, and that the fact that this is happening might be a sign that he is better off being an off-ball roleplayer than an on-ball creator.

They seem to think being a good roleplayer is some sort of shameful position to be in, which is absurd. A good NBA roleplayer is in the top 5% of players on the entire planet and every team needs them.

They just don't need them for $20m+, is all.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, there are some people who go just way too far with it.

I get people disagreeing with me, that happens all the time and we can have those discussions and arguments.

But there are somehow still people who think that Lonzo is just this all-time great, top-5 player in waiting who is being oppressed by SVG and David Griffin. The sort of people who get online after every game to complain about how he isn't getting the ball enough, isn't getting enough shots, isn't getting the offense run through him.

Somehow these people never seem to realise that Lonzo is putting up career highers in ppg, 2pt%, 3pt%, 3pt volume, FT%, TS%, BPM, and WS/48 all while simultaneously hitting career lows in TOV% and PFr, and that the fact that this is happening might be a sign that he is better off being an off-ball roleplayer than an on-ball creator.

They seem to think being a good roleplayer is some sort of shameful position to be in, which is absurd. A good NBA roleplayer is in the top 5% of players on the entire planet and every team needs them.

They just don't need them for $20m+, is all.

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Don't recall seeing anyone claim he is a top-5 players being oppressed by SVG and Griff. Nor do I see too many people claiming he isn't getting enough shots. However, I do recall you complaining and highlighting anything and everything he does wrong mainly because he was part of the Laker assets that came in the AD trade along with BI. So, this is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Don't recall seeing anyone claim he is a top-5 players being oppressed by SVG and Griff. Nor do I see too many people claiming he isn't getting enough shots. However, I do recall you complaining and highlighting anything and everything he does wrong mainly because he was part of the Laker assets that came in the AD trade along with BI. So, this is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

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I'm not talking about anyone on here with that, I think both DaFranchise and I were both talking about the people with Twitter accounts called ''GoatLonzoDaGod'' and stuff like that.

Not taking any shots at any members of this board, but there definitely are people who say things like that. Look in the comments of any Pelicans official tweet or Instagram post to find swarms of them. In fact, I'll do it for you.

Here are comments from underneath the Pelicans IG post with Lonzo as the picture from a few days ago:

''If lonzo goes to knicks you'll be regretful''

''Trade Zo to a team that will actually use him in the right way''

''Keep that dude in in crunch time!!!'' - from ''GoatedLonzo''

''I've been saying this from the beginning. This is Lonzo's team. Let him set up guys, it fuels his offense.''

''Pels trash, no clue what they have in Lonzo''

''Involve Lonzo, let him run more plays that aren't catch and shoot'' - from ''LonzoCulture''

''Let Zo run point, he's getting 30 assists!!!'' - from a dude with a Lakers jersey as his profile pic

''Pels use Lonzo in the worst ways, just let him run the point plz like I don't see what the problem with that''

And so on, on basically every post. Those are the people I'm talking about, not just people who think he's neat. I think that's who DaFranchise was talking about as well.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm not talking about anyone on here with that, I think both DaFranchise and I were both talking about the people with Twitter accounts called ''GoatLonzoDaGod'' and stuff like that.

Not taking any shots at any members of this board, but there definitely are people who say things like that. Look in the comments of any Pelicans official tweet or Instagram post to find swarms of them. In fact, I'll do it for you.

Here are comments from underneath the Pelicans IG post with Lonzo as the picture from a few days ago:

''If lonzo goes to knicks you'll be regretful''

''Trade Zo to a team that will actually use him in the right way''

''Keep that dude in in crunch time!!!'' - from ''GoatedLonzo''

''I've been saying this from the beginning. This is Lonzo's team. Let him set up guys, it fuels his offense.''

''Pels trash, no clue what they have in Lonzo''

''Involve Lonzo, let him run more plays that aren't catch and shoot'' - from ''LonzoCulture''

''Let Zo run point, he's getting 30 assists!!!'' - from a dude with a Lakers jersey as his profile pic

''Pels use Lonzo in the worst ways, just let him run the point plz like I don't see what the problem with that''

And so on, on basically every post. Those are the people I'm talking about, not just people who think he's neat. I think that's who DaFranchise was talking about as well.

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Really? I can only assume you have not looked at the negative posts on IG or Twitter. They FAR outweigh those posts.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Don't recall seeing anyone claim he is a top-5 players being oppressed by SVG and Griff. Nor do I see too many people claiming he isn't getting enough shots. However, I do recall you complaining and highlighting anything and everything he does wrong mainly because he was part of the Laker assets that came in the AD trade along with BI. So, this is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

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I was just thinking the same thing. And, just because guys argue with the same 3 people ad nauseum, doesn't necessarily translate to "people" in the larger context. For the most part, I think the "people" are going to be ok either way, because it's all about Zion and BI. Personally, I like how Lonzo has developed, and if he stays, then great. If the team decides to move him, then great! It shows that they feel a player with a different style is more important to add to the Zion and BI mix.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Really? I can only assume you have not looked at the negative posts on IG or Twitter. They FAR outweigh those posts.

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You're free to find those other people more irritating, I don't mind. Just clearing up the misunderstanding you had with my initial post. You said you don't recall anyone claiming that he's some severely underused mega-talent, and I explained the people I meant and gave some examples. That there are other people who may also be annoying in a different way is beside the point, honestly.

The Twitter fiends are insufferable. They’re in YouTube comment sections too.

Abandon hope, all ye who enter.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm not talking about anyone on here with that, I think both DaFranchise and I were both talking about the people with Twitter accounts called ''GoatLonzoDaGod'' and stuff like that.

Not taking any shots at any members of this board, but there definitely are people who say things like that. Look in the comments of any Pelicans official tweet or Instagram post to find swarms of them. In fact, I'll do it for you.

Here are comments from underneath the Pelicans IG post with Lonzo as the picture from a few days ago:

''If lonzo goes to knicks you'll be regretful''

''Trade Zo to a team that will actually use him in the right way''

''Keep that dude in in crunch time!!!'' - from ''GoatedLonzo''

''I've been saying this from the beginning. This is Lonzo's team. Let him set up guys, it fuels his offense.''

''Pels trash, no clue what they have in Lonzo''

''Involve Lonzo, let him run more plays that aren't catch and shoot'' - from ''LonzoCulture''

''Let Zo run point, he's getting 30 assists!!!'' - from a dude with a Lakers jersey as his profile pic

''Pels use Lonzo in the worst ways, just let him run the point plz like I don't see what the problem with that''

And so on, on basically every post. Those are the people I'm talking about, not just people who think he's neat. I think that's who DaFranchise was talking about as well.

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Yeah, these individuals are mainly former or current Lakers fans or diehard Lonzo fans primarily from the west coast. They claim to be Pelicans fans but are really wolves in sheep’s clothing.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Yeah, there are some people who go just way too far with it.

I get people disagreeing with me, that happens all the time and we can have those discussions and arguments.

But there are somehow still people who think that Lonzo is just this all-time great, top-5 player in waiting who is being oppressed by SVG and David Griffin. The sort of people who get online after every game to complain about how he isn't getting the ball enough, isn't getting enough shots, isn't getting the offense run through him.

.

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i get that you came back and cleaned it up by saying you not talking about anyone here....now lets be fair...if you are going to call out the lonzo stans then that ^ also goes for you....

they're game threads where you and funcrusher have in yall minds legit said those things ^ about zion when in actual game time that ingram was cooking and the team was up by 10.....or when teams crowd the paint and forcing zion to get other players involved for a possession or 3..........yes,,you two go just way too far with it posting comments about zion like the ones you have in your quote in examples as i laid out in my post....

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Originally Posted by 6warddude

i get that you came back and cleaned it up by saying you not talking about anyone here....now lets be fair...if you are going to call out the lonzo stans then that ^ also goes for you....

they're game threads where you and funcrusher have in yall minds legit said those things ^ about zion when in actual game time that ingram was cooking and the team was up by 10.....or when teams crowd the paint and forcing zion to get other players involved for a possession or 3..........yes,,you two go just way too far with it posting comments about zion like the ones you have in your quote in examples as i laid out in my post....

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Huge *huge* difference in saying that your offensively excellent on-ball player who often goes long stretches without shots should get some shots, and saying that your roleplayer off-ball guy who has already taken 6 threes should be given control of the offense because it's ''Lonzo's team''.

But you know, you go ahead and compare apples with golf-balls if you like.

This is really simple....

If the belief is that BI, Zion, and Lonzo are the core of a future championship contending team....resign him.
If the thought is that BI and Zion need a 3rd player getting around 20 mill better than Lonzo to win.....trade him now.
If Lonzo, his dad, and Klutch want out of NO, get him out of NO!

Does anyone really think Lonzo is going to turn into a 5 time all star sorta like a poor mans Jason Kidd?
What makes you believe that? What you see now might be it?

I, personally, can not see the Pels brightest future happening with Lonzo and his financial demands or play.
I would trade him now at his most valuable moment. Do not let him walk for nothing like Julius Randle.
If he ends up great in NY,Atl,LAC,or Chi, who cares good for him, but the Pels will have more assets and a brighter future without him.

Grif needs to use the Saints as a model. I have no issue with Lonzo staying on this team to the end of the season. But the Pels need to put a hard price on Lonzo, whatever it is; and if someone offers him more then let him walk.

Or they can trade him, if they feel they don?t have a shot at resigning him for whatever figure they price him at. Hopefully if they do they can fill one of the holes on this team, I.e. quality backup 3 or 4, or one or more 3 and D?s.

Please just don?t make the Gordon mistake again.


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Trade Lonzo to NY for Barrett


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