Deal Done

This is an absurd trade. The only way this trade makes any type of sense is if they know they're getting Kyrie or Kawhi.

I legitimately think the only thing that stopped Pelinka giving up more picks is the fact that you can't trade 2026 picks yet.

This is ridiculous. The only thing that would make go 'wtf' at this point is AD in a year going "I don't want to be part of a team who trades like dumbfux. I'm taking my talents to south beach."

Am I dreaming?

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Originally Posted by Primetime

Am I dreaming?

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In a sense.

Real question: do you think when Griffin got the final offer that he called Ainge? Or he finalized the deal?

Real question 2: if Griffin called Ainge and told him what he needed to beat, what do you think Ainge said in return?

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Originally Posted by Primetime

Real question: do you think when Griffin got the final offer that he called Ainge? Or he finalized the deal?

Real question 2: if Griffin called Ainge and told him what he needed to beat, what do you think Ainge said in return?

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Griff probably called Ainge and said ''Listen, Danny, I know you have some interest, you've made a few offers. This is what the Lakers are offering. Do you wanna raise on that, or are you done?''

And Ainge said: ''I'll do it, but only if you send me your 2042 second round pick and swap rights to your 2031 second round pick too.''

And Griff said ''Goodbye, Danny.''

And hung up.

BTW, Mason Ginsberg on podcast, said the Celtics had Tatum on the table. He also brought up the reverse protection, which turned out to be true, so I'll take him at his word.

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Originally Posted by Primetime

BTW, Mason Ginsberg on podcast, said the Celtics had Tatum on the table. He also brought up the reverse protection, which turned out to be true, so I'll take him at his word.

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Pretty sure it was Shamit that brought up the reverse protection, cause Mason said he didn't have the sources on this issue.

But still yeah, Ainge probably did have Tatum on the table but only in a deal that would reduce other assets. Tatum and not much else.

I really like the trade as it puts us in a position of power.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Pretty sure it was Shamit that brought up the reverse protection, cause Mason said he didn't have the sources on this issue.

But still yeah, Ainge probably did have Tatum on the table but only in a deal that would reduce other assets. Tatum and not much else.

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Ha. I always had them flipped then.

That reverse protection on the 2021 pick is some sneaky work there.

If the Laker's are still good, it lets us essentially defer it until the 2022 draft, which is likely to be the double draft. If the Lakers suck, it gives us a top, top pick.

Man, I'm gonna be scouting high schoolers next year :hihi:

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Originally Posted by Primetime

Ha. I always had them flipped then.

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Yeah, Shamit's the one who was in Atlanta playing frisbee, Mason was the one in Chicago.

I think Ainge was muted on speakerphone but laughing at his arch-nemesis giving up the farm.

Seen a couple of people saying ''lol, Pels are just the new Celtics, and they never won anything.''

This is obviously not true, for two key reasons.

1) We have Zion. When the Celtics traded their stars for pieces to the Nets, their roster for the next season was devoid of talent. They had nobody to build around. They didn't have a young star to guide their asset use. Their leading player in minutes per game was Jeff Green, who averaged 16.9 points a game. We don't have that problem: we still have a legit two way star in Jrue, and Zion is incoming with all the promise and potential in the world.

2) We have an executive who is not afraid to spend. The last decade of Danny Ainge has been characterised by 2 things: firstly, he makes advantageous trades, and secondly, he is stingy with assets once he has them. This has been a defining problem for Ainge: as superstar after superstar has become available, he has passed on them time and again rather than part with any picks or young players. PG13 stayed in OKC. Ainge had the chance to make that move, and he passed on it. He had the chance to get Kawhi, who won Toronto a ring and is probably staying there. He passed cause he didn't want to trade Terry Rozier. He just had the chance to get AD, and passed, because he didn't wanna give up Tatum. Ainge is a hoarder.

Griff doesn't have that problem. He's happy to move assets. He won't just throw them away, he's not an idiot, but he's a creative trader and is willing to make moves to continually improve the roster he's guiding. Now he has more assets to work with than ever.

We aren't the new Celtics. We have a much higher ceiling than that.

What is the Ingram status? Is He healthy and can recover from the blood clots?

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Originally Posted by Creative

What is the Ingram status? Is He healthy and can recover from the blood clots?

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He'll be fine as long as they don't recur.

So basically we just have to cross our fingers and hope that either he's fine, or that Griff moves him before it becomes an issue.

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Originally Posted by saintsfan989

Yea but that's a two season stretch....there was a time when Holiday couldn't stay on the court and we all sing his praises now.......also Lonzo's FT shooting will def. improve and he has the ball handling to be a great driver....the 3pt shooting is a big question mark but if he could hit the occasional wide open look I feel like its ok atleast considering everything else he could bring.......the dude is a monster on defense

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From all accounts he mentally does not want to be in New Orleans. Both he and his pops want a larger market.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

A clarification on the haul of draft picks heading the Pelicans' way. The 2021 pick goes to New Orleans if it's in the top eight, if not they'll get an unprotected first in 2022. Swap in 2023. Unprotected first in 2024, with a right to defer to 2025.

— Tania Ganguli (@taniaganguli) June 16, 2019

WAIT WAIT

Did I just miss this?

The 2021 protection is a REVERSE protection.

Like with the Harden/Adams trade. Lakers only get it if it falls OUTSIDE of the top 8. Top 8 and up, we get it.

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And can defer the '24 pick to '25. My God, it only gets better.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

From all accounts he mentally does not want to be in New Orleans. Both he and his pops want a larger market.

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Old news. By those same accounts they still love the Lakers and feel like they will win championships.

Attachment 6430

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Old news. By those same accounts they still love the Lakers and feel like they will win championships.

Attachment 6430

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When will people stop putting together these stupid pictures and conjecturing that Lamelo and LiAngelo will be NBA players?

LiAngelo is 20. He has not been drafted, he has not been put on a G league team, nobody is seeking his skills.

LaMelo has a negative basketball IQ, and by skipping on college and skipping on playing in an established league, he's put up huge trash stats against Literal Nobodies.

Neither of them are likely to be NBA players. Stop this, media.

Lonzo is not his dad. I’m an X lakers fan. Zo has been trying to distance himself from his dad since he got in the NBA. I can see the New Pelican players working out very well with the Pelicans.

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Originally Posted by HartOfaPelican

Lonzo is not his dad. I’m an X lakers fan. Zo has been trying to distance himself from his dad since he got in the NBA. I can see the New Pelican players working out very well with the Pelicans.

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He's been doing a very poor job of it.

If he's willing to play and willing to completely rework his jumpshot and spend the next three months shooting 500 FTs a day, then cool.

But he's not a thrilling player at this point.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

When will people stop putting together these stupid pictures and conjecturing that Lamelo and LiAngelo will be NBA players?

LiAngelo is 20. He has not been drafted, he has not been put on a G league team, nobody is seeking his skills.

LaMelo has a negative basketball IQ, and by skipping on college and skipping on playing in an established league, he's put up huge trash stats against Literal Nobodies.

Neither of them are likely to be NBA players. Stop this, media.

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Haha. I saved that meaning to show you and then Lucky caught my attention. Lol

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Haha. I saved that meaning to show you and then Lucky caught my attention. Lol

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Man....

I hate the Ball circus.

Yeah. LaVar is awful. So bad. I'll give the kid a chance. Sins of the father and such.

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Originally Posted by HartOfaPelican

Lonzo is not his dad. I’m an X lakers fan. Zo has been trying to distance himself from his dad since he got in the NBA. I can see the New Pelican players working out very well with the Pelicans.

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I think all three seem to have a chip on their shoulder. I like that. They looked so demoralized last season. Gentry has that player's coach persona and Jrue is just a great guy. Someone to follow. Add Zion and his energy on top of that and this team should be slamming....and that's just the slight chance we don't flip for better players.

Is Lonzo Ball the player in the NBA right now with the largest gap between what he's good at and what he's bad at?

Like, he's a very very good defender, and a high level passer with good vision and passing IQ. Possibly a top 5 defensive guard, and probably a top 10 passer in the league.

On the other hand, he's one the the absolute worst scorers in the league from basically everywhere on the floor, including from the FT line where he's one of the worst in NBA history, and cannot create a shot for himself to save his life. Absolutely ranks in the bottom 10% of the league as a scorer.

That gap is huge. It's weird.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He'll be fine as long as they don't recur.

So basically we just have to cross our fingers and hope that either he's fine, or that Griff moves him before it becomes an issue.

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I'm hearing that Griffin absolutely loves him, so David need to be 100% sure about Ingram health. If something is wrong rest of the league will know that . It's a big gamble I think.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

We have the LA Lakers unprotected first round pick for the year Lebron James turns 40.

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Doesn’t matter because LeBron’s son is likely playing for the Lakers by then. You known Klutch is gonna make LeBron Jr to the lakers a reality.

The FT% trope is catastrophizing.

Ball is a young Rajon Rondo but a better 3pt shooter. Really. Lonzo shoots better from three than Rondo when he started. Rondo's FT% was also in the 30s one season and the 40s another. Not when he was young but when he played limited games. The thing is it really isn't the biggest issue because mentioning the percentages insinuates he misses a bunch a game.....but he only averages one or two FTs a game. Definitely overblown. His job isn't to score the points, it's to set them up and he does it really well. Same with D.

They are weaknesses, but because he is so good at opening up teammates, the good outweighs the bad.

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Originally Posted by HoustonRox

Doesn’t matter because LeBron’s son is likely playing for the Lakers by then. You known Klutch is gonna make LeBron Jr to the lakers a reality.

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So?

It would definitely be funny if we drafted Bron's son, but we don't actually have to.

When I say ''the LA Lakers unprotected first round pick for the year Lebron turns 40'', the good thing about that is that it is a second first round pick in a draft, and it is likely to be a pretty good pick. Who actually cares about Bronny?

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

.

They are weaknesses, but because he is so good at opening up teammates, the good outweighs the bad.

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I've been saying this for weeks, and it's still true, but I'll keep plugging away at it.

Lonzo Ball is a very good passer. He is not a good ''creator''. He does not ''open up teammates''.

The way someone like Lebron ''creates'' a shot for another teammate is that he has offensive gravity. When he drives, he attracts help defense, even if only for a stunt, which briefly leaves someone open, allowing him to pass.

Lonzo is scared to drive, partially because he doesn't absorb contact well, and as a result when he drives (which is rare, he usually just camps out on the 3pt line and bricks threes) nobody comes over to help. They all just cling to their man and let him do whatever, because they know a single defender is usually enough to prevent him from going up strong for the shot. There is no moment of open-ness: there is no shot created.

There are examples of this all throughout the year, but just for proof, remember when we played the Lakers last year? What did we do when Lonzo got the ball on the perimeter? If you remember, what we did was just stick on our man, back away from him, and let him fire. Stay on your man, don't let anyone become open, because he's not a threat to drive and he can't shoot either.

He averaged one 3pt shot a quarter. How is that camping out and shooting 3s?

He's also averaging more assists than Rondo did his first two seasons.

You can't compare him to LeBron. That's not fair at all. Two completely different positions asked to do two completely different things. Compare him to Rondo and Lonzo shoots the 3 better and is averaging more assists. So he is, currently, on pace to be Rondo 2.0+. How can anyone hate that?

*LaVar's picture pops up

****. I shouldn't have asked that.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

He averaged one 3pt shot a quarter. How is that camping out and shooting 3s?

He's also averaging more assists than Rondo did his first two seasons.

You can't compare him to LeBron. That's not fair at all. Two completely different positions asked to do two completely different things. Compare him to Rondo and Lonzo shoots the 3 better and is averaging more assists. So he is, currently, on pace to be Rondo 2.0+. How can anyone hate that?

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''He averaged one 3pt shot a quarter'' is a weird way of saying ''51.3% of all his career field goal attempts at this point have been three pointers''.

Please stop comparing him to Rajon Rondo. Rajon Rondo was on a team with multiple three point snipers early in his career which gave him room to drive. When Rondo was playing his early career years, the league was very different in a bunch of very key ways. If you're going to tell me that there hasn't been a massive shift in the responsibilities of a point guard since 2007 then we can't have a conversation about this.

I used Lebron as an example, because when he drives, it's so obvious. The point is true for others too, just to a less dramatic extent. It's what happens when fellow-non-shooter Ben Simmons drives, it's what happens when Jrue drives, it's what happened when AD used to drive here, it's what happened when Derrick Rose used to drive, or when literally any non-shooting ball-handler who is a threat to score drives. They draw attention, opening up team mates, because they are a scoring threat. Lonzo is NOT a scoring threat, and therefore he doesn't open up teammates.

None of those arguments apply to Lonzo. You are comparing him to SFs or shooting Gs and that's not his game. It's like judging a fish as stupid just because it can't climb a tree. You have to compare him to another player similar to his game. That is Rondo. The game is ever evolving, so using the "league is different" trope is even more cliché. If he keeps progressing the way he is, he will be a better Rondo and he will make his own niche.

What you are doing would be like if I called Zion a bum because he couldn't shoot threes like Curry.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

No. But from a known asset standpoint, seems weak. The future draft haul is a huge unknown. The stupid Lakers stand just as good of a chance to compete for chamionships for the next ~8 years.

Ball has to be flipped. At least you pray he does. No Kuzma. Ingram is the best player the Pelicans got back in return. Pray he develops.

And from a petty standpoint, just did NOT want to see AD in LA. yuck!

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He was going to LA in a year no matter what now it’s gonna be fun beating them


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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

He was going to LA in a year no matter what now it’s gonna be fun beating them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Nah we dont know that. These players are all near 25 and change like the wind. Very few have a mind of their own. He might wind up leaving L.A. depending on how things go next year.

It seems like a dysfunctional organization relying on star power and history. Of course the loud mouths will never fully characterize the Lakers in that way like they would say...the Pelicans.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

None of those arguments apply to Lonzo. You are comparing him to SFs or shooting Gs and that's not his game. It's like judging a fish as stupid just because it can't climb a tree. You have to compare him to another player similar to his game. That is Rondo. The game is ever evolving, so using the "league is different" trope is even more cliché. If he keeps progressing the way he is, he will be a better Rondo and he will make his own niche.

What you are doing would be like if I called Zion a bum because he couldn't shoot threes like Curry.

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Glad to hear D rose is a small forward and Ben Simmons is a shooting guard now. Someone should probably let them know.

That's nothing like what I'm doing at all. Don't be so absurd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

A clarification on the haul of draft picks heading the Pelicans' way. The 2021 pick goes to New Orleans if it's in the top eight, if not they'll get an unprotected first in 2022. Swap in 2023. Unprotected first in 2024, with a right to defer to 2025.

— Tania Ganguli (@taniaganguli) June 16, 2019

WAIT WAIT

Did I just miss this?

The 2021 protection is a REVERSE protection.

Like with the Harden/Adams trade. Lakers only get it if it falls OUTSIDE of the top 8. Top 8 and up, we get it.

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This is AMAZING news

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

That reverse protection on the 2021 pick is some sneaky work there.

If the Laker's are still good, it lets us essentially defer it until the 2022 draft, which is likely to be the double draft. If the Lakers suck, it gives us a top, top pick.

Man, I'm gonna be scouting high schoolers next year :hihi:

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What do you mean by double draft? Thanks

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Is Lonzo Ball the player in the NBA right now with the largest gap between what he's good at and what he's bad at?

Like, he's a very very good defender, and a high level passer with good vision and passing IQ. Possibly a top 5 defensive guard, and probably a top 10 passer in the league.

On the other hand, he's one the the absolute worst scorers in the league from basically everywhere on the floor, including from the FT line where he's one of the worst in NBA history, and cannot create a shot for himself to save his life. Absolutely ranks in the bottom 10% of the league as a scorer.

That gap is huge. It's weird.

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Is his 3 pointer really that bad? 33% on 5 attempts a game isn’t exactly bad is it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Primetime

Real question: do you think when Griffin got the final offer that he called Ainge? Or he finalized the deal?

Real question 2: if Griffin called Ainge and told him what he needed to beat, what do you think Ainge said in return?

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I'm sure Griff called and told Ainge and then Ainge said, "Do you mind doing me a solid by not saying we offered Tatum for AD and let me get out fronwith this message?".

The beauty of the pick swaps is that they’ll mostly take effect when LBJ’s contract is up or almost up. IMO, the picks next year or the year after will be trash because the Lakers are most likely finals bound starting this upcoming season. I don’t agree with the Lakers won’t be good narrative that some are spewing. LBJ had last years Lakers in the playoffs until he pulled his groin. What do you think will happen with AD? It’s super smart to back load the picks

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

What do you mean by double draft? Thanks

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If I'm correct, that will be the first year HS players can be drafted. So you'll have the one and dones from that year AND the HS seniors in the same draft. So it should be especially deep with talent.

We robbed L.A. for a player that is MVP caliber but inept at carrying or leading a team. We tell them what they can do with their draft until Lebron is 40. Love it.

Randle had a career year with his first step out of L.A. Optimistic our new additions can have a similar upward momentum leaving the inept fakers.

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Originally Posted by saintsfan989

Yea but that's a two season stretch....there was a time when Holiday couldn't stay on the court and we all sing his praises now.......also Lonzo's FT shooting will def. improve and he has the ball handling to be a great driver....the 3pt shooting is a big question mark but if he could hit the occasional wide open look I feel like its ok atleast considering everything else he could bring.......the dude is a monster on defense

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Some people here can’t seem to see last tomorrow. Not like a 21 year old kid could get better could he? Talking of a 21 year olds game like it is set in stone is as dumb as it gets yet some continue to pretended that’s the case. We got some serious talent in this trade.

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Originally Posted by MistaWhoDat

Incoming https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...769dbc9150.jpg


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Love this picture! Ingram and Ball will be better then Tatum and Brown. Josh Hart is going to be a fan favorite as a Marcus Smart style player. Throw in the draft picks and this trade blows the Celtics away. So excited about this deal!

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

Some people here can’t seem to see last tomorrow. Not like a 21 year old kid could get better could he? Talking of a 21 year olds game like it is set in stone is as dumb as it gets yet some continue to pretended that’s the case. We got some serious talent in this trade.

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There's a balance. The more years a player is in the league and the older the player the lower the odds of that player making drastic improvements. That's the entire reason Sophomore / Junior / Senior college players are typically not valued as much as freshman players.

The hope with Lonzo, Ingram, and Hart is that the same thing that happened with Russell happens with them and that the dysfunction of the Lakers is what stunted their development so much.

But people are right in just looking at what they've done on the court, and being worried about it. Injuries, poor production, and length of contracts is all an issue. Can they improve? Absolutely. But Ingram has had 3 years and Lonzo 2 years in this league. It's not a guarantee at all that they will be much better than they are. High draft picks was out of the NBA ALL the time.

Ball certainly has some skills and in a vacuum I would like to see what would happen with him here. But the downside of the Ball family sideshow, his FT and 3pt shooting struggles and the strong likelihood that he isn't a long term piece makes me hopeful for another trade moving him for a different player/picks. If it weren't for the blood clot issues, I could get on board with seeing if Ingram was another piece to build around. But the downside of health problem, the one year remaining on his contract and odds that he isn't a long term piece makes me want to move him, even before Ball. I want to keep Hart.

If Griffin can flip Ball and Ingram for relatively even assets, I would do it in a heartbeat. The goal is to set the Pelicans up to be regular contenders and I can't see either of them in New Orleans when the Pels are ready to contend. They can certainly improve as players and I believe that they will. But the risk of their downsides are too great not to move both if the right deals are available.