2014 Playoffs - Geaux CP3

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Originally Posted by pelicans_82-0

CP33333333!!!!!
32pts, 10ast while shooting 12-14 in 28 minutes.

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But Lillard is still better because he made that one shot. Best PG in the league!

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

But Lillard is still better because he made that one shot. Best PG in the league!

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:hihi:
Nice sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Seeing how the Wizards are doing, I have to assume they are going to keep Ariza. I can't imagine they let him walk now. Which might be a good thing for us. Make a play for Webster? I mean they have to give Porter minutes to develop.

They need to get his contract off the books. We might be able to get him for cheap.

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If not, James Johnson would be another option.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I have said Rivers and Ely for a few weeks. Could make some sense for them. Cuts over 2.5 mil and gives them a young guard and opens up time at SF for not only Porter, but Glen Rice Jr who they also like

That said, if I were them, I would just dump Porter now and go with the known commodities. And no, I would not be interested in Porter

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I mean, I'm interested if they are just giving him away. We can always not pick up his option. I wouldn't give up any asset though. Not really.

Rivers and Ely for him. Maybe. At least that will allow Rivers to get more guaranteed playing time. While Webster doesn't give us the rebounding we need from a SF he still is a major upgrade.

Tony Parker said on NBA Gametime that Lillard is a top 5 pg in the league. Parker is an all-star and he feels that way yet we still want to dispute that fact here. SMH

I would put Parker, CP3, Williams, Wall, and Curry above him. If Rose or Rondo ever get healthy again, I would say they are better than Lillard, too.

Dame is on the Conley tier right now.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

Tony Parker said on NBA Gametime that Lillard is a top 5 pg in the league. Parker is an all-star and he feels that way yet we still want to dispute that fact here. SMH

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Maybe Tony truly feels that way, but I tend to take what coaches and players say with a grain of salt. You never know how much of it is them just " being respectful" and how much of it are their true thoughts. Either why it's still not a "fact" it's an opinion.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Maybe Tony truly feels that way, but I tend to take what coaches and players say with a grain of salt. You never know how much of it is them just " being respectful" and how much of it are their true thoughts. Either why it's still not a "fact" it's an opinion.

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You're right. It is an opinion. At the end of the day, I'd put more value on the guy with first hand experience against every pg in the league vs things like fan opinion and metrics. I only posted this because I wanted to give an outside opinion on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

I would put Parker, CP3, Williams, Wall, and Curry above him. If Rose or Rondo ever get healthy again, I would say they are better than Lillard, too.

Dame is on the Conley tier right now.

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By Williams I'm assuming you mean Deron? In no way is he a better player than Lilliard. His play has declined drastically over the past few seasons. I wouldn't even have Deron Williams in the top 10 PGs in the league right now.

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Originally Posted by RUFshreve

By Williams I'm assuming you mean Deron? In no way is he a better player than Lilliard. His play has declined drastically over the past few seasons. I wouldn't even have Deron Williams in the top 10 PGs in the league right now.

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Yeah IMO Williams decline has been drastic enough for long enough to not have him in the top 5 anymore. I think Lillard is the 8 ranked PG. He is on a Irving/Wall level IMO. That would be the third tier.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Yeah IMO Williams decline has been drastic enough for long enough to not have him in the top 5 anymore. I think Lillard is the 8 ranked PG. He is on a Irving/Wall level IMO. That would be the third tier.

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I can accept that.

When the game is on the line and there is less than a second on the clock, give me Lillard over anyone.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

When the game is on the line and there is less than a second on the clock, give me Lillard over anyone.

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http://www.basketball-reference.com/...der_by=efg_pct

That is interesting. Of that list he has the most attempts and is hitting over .500 (.400 from behind the arc).

I really don't think it means much because it also shows Evan ****ing Turner as being 2/3 in the same situation. One fewer make but in four fewer tries!

e: Laughing at John Wall, though. 0/6.

e2: None of these stats count free throws, though. So that could inflate/deflate numbers of players.

Do ft's matter thought? How many games are decided on ft's with .01 left on the clock? There have been a couple this playoff series, but by and large it comes down to a last second shot, or it was a blow out.

That said, give me Lillard. Man has Big Shot Rob in his bones, and is on the upward track to being a top 5-10 player in this league.

What's the difference between Lillard and a young Ray Allen?

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One had a Rolls Royce Phantom while the other doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

What's the difference between Lillard and a young Ray Allen?

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One is a scoring point, the other was a pure SG. But their stats are kinda similar:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...enra02&y2=1999

Of note, Allen came into the league a year younger than Lillard.

e: Also, Allen didn't really explode until his fourth year (the link cuts off after his third)

1)Paul
2)Parker
3)Rose if healthy
4)Curry
5)Lillard

That's how I have it

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Originally Posted by Kibner

One is a scoring point, the other was a pure SG. But their stats are kinda similar:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...enra02&y2=1999

Of note, Allen came into the league a year younger than Lillard.

e: Also, Allen didn't really explode until his fourth year (the link cuts off after his third)

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Weird that one is called a scoring PG and the other a SG when they have almost identical numbers. Ray Allen with slightly more rebounds and Lillard with slightly more assists. Lillard this year compared to Allen at the same age is only about a 6% difference in assist %.

It seems like people are trying to make Lillard a PG just like pre injury EG people tried to make a PG. Lillard has a beautiful stroke and is far more likely to shoot than pass. It's not his fault he's like 1-2 inches shorter than the typical SG. It's just like (but opposite) people trying to say because Tyreke is tall he is a SF.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

But Lillard is still better because he made that one shot. Best PG in the league!

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Welcome to the team. Suit up, your next in to defend Lillard against people calling him a sg.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Welcome to the team. Suit up, your next in to defend Lillard against people calling him a sg.

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I will say why are people stuck on him having to be a PG? Tyreke was listed as a SF for us and would anyone here call him that?

Would Lillard rather be a top 10 PG or a top 5 SG (and possibly top 2 behind only Kobe)?

Please don't take me saying he's not a PG as a knock on him. It's just his game is far more like a SG than PG. I still think he's an amazing player. And I think he'd be top of the league as a SG.

The real question is would anyone actually want Lillard to be more of a PG? Personally, no. He is best scoring. Put him next to Rondo/Tyreke/Wall and and then just stand back and watch the magic happen. Lillard is what we thought Gordon would be when we gave him a max.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I will say why are people stuck on him having to be a PG? Tyreke was listed as a SF for us and would anyone here call him that?

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Because he is listed as the lead guard and runs the offense = PG...

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Originally Posted by DirtySouf

Because he is listed as the lead guard and runs the offense = PG...

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Tyreke is listed as a SF.

And Lillard doesn't even have the highest assist % on his team. Williams has him beat and Batum is within 4% of him.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Tyreke is listed as a SF.

And Lillard doesn't even have the highest assist % on his team. Williams has him beat and Batum is within 4% of him.

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I understand what you are trying to say but Lillard truly plays the point for that team...

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Originally Posted by DirtySouf

I understand what you are trying to say but Lillard truly plays the point for that team...

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Only 66% of the time based off play-by-play. But like I said, he doesn't even lead the team in the category that most represents what a PG does. He isn't top 10 in total assists, he isn't top 20 in assists per game, he isn't top 20 in assist %. But he's a top 5 PG? Nah. Best case argument that can be made by people calling him a PG is he's a SG forced to play out of position.

Don't understand why Stotts is having Lillard guard Parker.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Only 66% of the time based off play-by-play. But like I said, he doesn't even lead the team in the category that most represents what a PG does. He isn't top 10 in total assists, he isn't top 20 in assists per game, he isn't top 20 in assist %. But he's a top 5 PG? Nah. Best case argument that can be made by people calling him a PG is he's a SG forced to play out of position.

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I understand. But he is their starting PG. The offense they run doesn't always allow for double digit assists...

I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 5 yet but I'd be ok giving him the last shot any day...

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Originally Posted by DirtySouf

I understand. But he is their starting PG. The offense they run doesn't always allow for double digit assists...

I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 5 yet but I'd be ok giving him the last shot any day...

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Is taking the last shot some sort of prerequisite to being a PG? Miami doesn't have a ring last year without Allen taking the last shot 3. Is he a PG?

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Is taking the last shot some sort of prerequisite to being a PG? Miami doesn't have a ring last year without Allen taking the last shot 3. Is he a PG?

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You are way off on this one... I never said that a last shot has anything to do with a PG. I am simply saying that Lillard is Portland's starting PG, that's it... Just watch the game that's going on now and you can probably see what I'm talking about...

I commented on the other discussion about him being the best PG in the game and said that he is not yet in my top 5. I was giving him props for being a clutch shooter by saying that I wouldn't mind him taking my last shot...

I'm grinning every time the spurs pick and roll Lopez and Lillard to death. See Houston, this is what you do to those two.

Meanwhile, were back here fishing.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Meanwhile, were back here fishing.

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One of the advantages to living on a river, imo.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Only 66% of the time based off play-by-play. But like I said, he doesn't even lead the team in the category that most represents what a PG does. He isn't top 10 in total assists, he isn't top 20 in assists per game, he isn't top 20 in assist %. But he's a top 5 PG? Nah. Best case argument that can be made by people calling him a PG is he's a SG forced to play out of position.

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This is like saying Mario Chalmers or Derrick Fisher aren't point guards, or Noah and Marc Gasol aren't centers. Different players at different position play different roles for their respective teams. Some PG's are asked to defend and hit open shots, some are asked to get the team into the offense, some are ask to create looks for other teammates, and some are asked to get their own offense. That doesn't mean they aren't all PG's.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

That doesn't mean they are all PG's.

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That's kinda my whole point.

Well no it's not. Your point is that he isn't a pg because he doesn't have great assist numbers (which doesn't say much, half the people mocked GV last year even though he was #2 in the league in assists). Your saying because he doesn't pass he isn't a great pg. What da throne is saying (and correct me if I am wrong da throne) is that he doesn't have to pass to be considered a pg. he can do a million different things, it doesn't mean he isn't a pg. He is, and he is amazing at his job.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

That's kinda my whole point.

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Typo clearly I meant "aren't".

He's good at one thing, shooting. Below average at the rim, below average distribution and rebounding, and absolutely terrible at defense.

Why are we arguing about "positions" like point guard and shooting guard when they really don't exist. You have a lead guard who brings the ball up and starts the play. That lead guard may be a distributor, a scorer, or a mixture of both. Usually, you'd like to have 1 distributor and 1 scorer on the floor at guard, but let's not try to stereotype them. Lillard is a lead guard who is more of a scorer than a distributor, but it doesn't matter whether or not he is labeled a PG or SG, IMO.

Certainly not worth all the hype he is getting though. The kid is good, but he really makes his name by hitting big shots. He disappears often though. I remember last year when he hit the game winner against us, but he had a terrible game, and everyone was freaking out until his stat line was pointed out.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Typo clearly I meant "aren't".

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I know. Just thought it was funny and went with it.

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Originally Posted by Kumar

He's good at one thing, shooting. Below average at the rim, below average distribution and rebounding, and absolutely terrible at defense.

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I said the same thing about Ryno and people here believe that he's a top caliber player in the league. You are arguing the exact opposite of that with Lillard. When is ok to be good at 1 thing and suck at others and when is it not?

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

I said the same thing about Ryno and people here believe that he's a top caliber player in the league. You are arguing the exact opposite of that with Lillard. When is ok to be good at 1 thing and suck at others and when is it not?

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When one player is 6'10 and causes matchup issues for the other team and the other plays a position flush with really good shooters.


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Originally Posted by HornetsFan90277

When one player is 6'10 and causes matchup issues for the other team and the other plays a position flush with really good shooters.


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Ok. You keep telling yourself that.

Why do players either have to suck or be great? Is there no in between?

Both Ryno and Lillard are very good complimentary pieces. Ryno is probably somewhere between 40 and 50 and Lillard is somewhere between 25 and 35.

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?


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I agree, I think both are great at what they do (Ryno creating space, Lillard setting the tone). Whoever compared Lillard to what we thought we were getting in Gordon is right. He is that high impact, change a game type player. He gets to the rack, and while he might not finish somebody is fouling him to get him there so he impacts the way the opponent can play him. I like him and think in the future he and AD will be battling for MVP's.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

Ok. You keep telling yourself that.

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You asked for the difference between them when they have close to the same flaws. Is it tougher to find a 4 that is in the top 5 of made three point attempts or a lead scoring guard that does the same? Both are an elite skill but only one brings a would be rebounder out of the paint while the other does not.


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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Why do players either have to suck or be great? Is there no in between?

Both Ryno and Lillard are very good complimentary pieces. Ryno is probably somewhere between 40 and 50 and Lillard is somewhere between 25 and 35.

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?


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I personally don't think that it has to be 1 or the other. I was just curious how being really good at 1 skill and ok at others makes 1 guy overrated but the other guy good. I've seen you post that Ryno is top 40 or 50 before so if every player in this league was made available for a draft, Ryno would be your 1st or 2nd pick? There are 30 teams so top 40 or 50 would make him a team's 1st or 2nd pick. Just curious.

Reply I made elsewhere, but figured could stand to be posted here as well:

I used to sit in front of the tv, or sit in the Arena (now the Smoothie King Center) and watch the opponent rain down jumpers of all varieties on the Hornets/Pelicans all night long. I always thought to myself, and would often get very irritated at this fact, why do all these teams always get hot against us? Why is it always us? Then I actually started going back and focusing on the game within the game, and come to find out these teams are "hot" against us because our defense sucks. We're constantly missing rotations, late on rotations, late on getting out to contest shots. They aren't hot, they're just hitting their open shots, like you would expect an NBA team to do. Back to San Antonio-Portland, maybe Portland could get away with it if they were playing the Bucks, or the 76ers, but they won't win they're playing a Title contender like the Spurs. They aren't hot, they're just doing what is expected of them, and that's making the open shots that Portland is giving up.

I've always said, if you're not out to contest an NBA shooter by the time he starts his shot motion, you're too late. So take this image below of Tony Parker and Nicolas Batum. Batum has his hands at his side, a couple feet from Parker who has already started his motion.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...969-U10500.jpg


Or this one, where Wesley Matthews is late to contest on Patty Mills.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...257-U10500.jpg


Robin Lopez was playing off the PnR, so Timmy is left open for the elbow jumper.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...450-U10500.jpg


This particular play, Lillard gets caught up on a screen set by Duncan and he doesn't get out to Marco.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...504-U10500.jpg


Complete defensive breakdown.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...549-U10500.jpg


Lillard gets caught up on Duncans screen and Lopez is hanging back in the paint, Parker gets an open midrange jumper off the PnR.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...579-U10500.jpg


Same thing as above.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...682-U10500.jpg


Another failed PnR execution defensively.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...710-U10500.jpg


They only ran Marco off of 3-4 screens last night, but he scored every time.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...745-U10500.jpg


Another example of Marco off a screen.
http://www.sportzin.com/forums/uploa...788-U10500.jpg


San Antonio is full of guys who space the floor and hit open shots. So if you leave them open, they will get "hot." They're open because quite frankly Portland's defense sucks, and it has for quite some time. Also going back to the shot motion and Spurs shooters, alot of those guys are considered open as soon as the ball touches their hands. If you can't disrupt their initial shot motion, they will hit the shot. They were the #1 spot up team in the league, after all.

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Originally Posted by UptownFuz504

I personally don't think that it has to be 1 or the other. I was just curious how being really good at 1 skill and ok at others makes 1 guy overrated but the other guy good. I've seen you post that Ryno is top 40 or 50 before so if every player in this league was made available for a draft, Ryno would be your 1st or 2nd pick? There are 30 teams so top 40 or 50 would make him a team's 1st or 2nd pick. Just curious.

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How does top 40-50 with 30 teams mean he's a 1st round pick? It means he's a solid middle to late 2nd round pick in your scenario. And yeah. If every player was made available and it went round robin for picking players I think he'd be selected in the 2nd round. Worst case whoever picked Dwight I have no doubt would pick him.

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