What does where the discussion take place have anything to do with it? I'm challenging a person to actually show backbone in their opinion. If he wants to be taken seriously, as he pretends he does, then he would accept. It's really that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmcuc
He also didn't answer either of my two other questions on the subject.
Top 10 Players (any position) for 2014-15
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09-03-2014, 10:43 AMMythrol
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09-03-2014, 11:01 AMjdmcuc
Has no one ever taught you not to take things on the internet so seriously? I hope you were joking, because it was pretty funny.
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09-03-2014, 11:08 AMMythrolI don't think you've read my other posts. I've already stated I think DT is a troll and I don't believe anything he states on this subject. He wants to pretend he isn't and he wants his opinion taken seriously, this is his chance. I don't expect him to though because that would mean he'd have to actually believe what he is spewing and it's clear he doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmcuc
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09-03-2014, 11:23 AMjdmcucI don't agree with a single opinion DT has regarding Davis vs Drummond. I don't have to, neither do you. You don't have to believe in another persons opinion. You are losing sleep over nothing lol. He's a troll? Then ignore him. He hasn't flamed or insulted anyone directly. If he's insulted you merely by expressing himself and his opinion then that's on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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09-03-2014, 11:23 AMJabberwalkerQuote:
Originally Posted by pelicanchamp
EVERYONE JUST KNOWS. JUST REITERATE OPINIONS AS GROUPTHINK UNTIL WE ALL THINK THE SAME.Quote:
Originally Posted by tthier2
Stats can be misleading and we can all agree on that so it shouldn't be surprising that someone doesn't accept AD's stats as conclusive evidence of how good he is. We can measure team success, which AD has none in the NBA. We can measure the eye test, which is subjective, which DaThrone has reached the conclusion that AD is better than he originally thought, but isn't as good as most people here think. And that is just fine. And yes, I still assert that you can be a fan of a team if you hate every move they make. In fact, it would make you one hell of a fan that you could have such objectivity, go through such frustration with their direction, and continue to root for them. -
09-03-2014, 11:31 AMMythrolWhere did I say I was losing sleep? Like I said, I don't care what his opinion is but if he's going to sit here and pretend he is serious then I will still call him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmcuc
Seems you have a problem with my posts. I suggest you take your own advice and just ignore them. -
09-03-2014, 11:36 AMjdmcucYou say you don't care yet you continue to call him out. Very contradicting. No need to be so hostile. I just don't believe in people taking heat for having a difference in opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
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09-03-2014, 11:37 AMMythrolWait. So let me get this right. Stats can be misleading but we can measure with the eye test? LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwalker
Individual stats taken separately can be misleading, but not an entire group of stats all saying the same time. They are a FAR clearer indication of a player than some random person's eye test.
Fortunately for Davis, we have both. -
09-03-2014, 11:39 AMMythrolNot at all. I don't care what his opinion is but that doesn't mean I'm going to allow it to go unchecked. If he is going to express troll bait then I'm going to call it out every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmcuc
Especially when just a few months ago he admitted AD was better than Drummond and yet now has it flipped again. -
09-03-2014, 12:01 PMJabberwalkerFrom a logical standpoint, yes. What I'm saying is that if you know basketball, watch a guy play, and don't think he's very good but get's good stats are you really going to change your mind on a guy? How "good" is Carmelo Anthony or James Harden? Do they help or hurt their teams? Of course they can score, but how much better do they score than the replacement player? How much does the other team score because of their defense? Are they a net positive or negative? They have amazing across the board numbers AND team success yet I personally think AD will be a far better player than either of them this season. I agree that the stats that AD does get are insane and support the eye test that he is great. But how crazy is it to see those stats and think he is getting good stats on a bad team and your eye test says he isn't good? It's not that far fetched right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
So for DaThrone, he does see huge stats but his eye-test doesn't support those stats so he doesn't have both.
You're also dismissing team success, which AD certainly doesn't have in the NBA (yet). Which would only serve DaThrone and damage your argument. So we have three factors, eye test, stats and team success. DaThrone thinks 2 of 3 of those go against AD and you think that 2 of three of those go for him. Now how crazy is it? -
09-03-2014, 12:12 PMMythrolWhat does team success have to do with ranking of top 25 overall players? Is the argument the Pistons will be more successful than the Pels due to Drummond the reason Drummond is ranked higher?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwalker
We are not having an mvp discussion. We are talking about the top 25 list that DT released where he had AD behind Drummond. We also have DT admitting he evaluates players to different degrees even though they are on the same list.
There is not 3 equal factors that make a player better than another. The problem with DTs entire argument is he is using one, his own eye test, and completely ignoring all other eye tests and all stats and then ignores all arguments made against him because (my eyes see AD more critical). He complains of not being taken seriously but doesn't actually want to listen to people's argument. He also will not stand behind his comments when challenged and instead tries to deflect.
Keep in mind I haven't ranked AD or said he will be top 3, 5, or 10 for this season. I have taken exception to DTs ranking of AD behind Drummond because I think that is the clearest sign of his trolling. He doesn't want AD top 10-15 ok fine. But he ranks players like Lillard top 10 and Drummond ahead of Davis. -
09-03-2014, 12:13 PMda ThRONeI don't care if you think I'm a troll, especially not enough to wager a $1000 on an opinion and not something I can effect personally. I could believe what I believe and still not win for various reasons. Part of the reason I felt Drummond stats weren't more on par of what we think of from a star/superstar is his teammates. If Monroe and Smith are on the team I can see Drummond stats not taking the bump it would if one and/or both of those two are gone at the beginning of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
As far as grading people on my list equally I have. You don't see anybody on my supposed "players that I make excuses for" ahead of Davis on my list. The only person I have ahead of Davis is Drummond and he's doing crazy numbers(both raw and advanced) himself as the 4th option on a bad team. If Van Gundy plan is to make Drummond the first option it only stands to reason that he's likely to see a huge boost in production(especially raw stats).
As far as the FIBA thing. Davis is scoring trash buckets. While it's important to be able to finish on the breaks, as a cut man/roll man, and to clean up misses we see Faried having a similar type impact. FIBA basketball is kind to the "hustling trash man role" especially on a team like USA when we are going to run and the opposing teams can pack the paint to prevent perimeter drives because otherwise they could never stop our wings or guards. How many jumpers did Davis hit just last game? This isn't an strike on Davis either much like his year in UK this is what Coach K and USA basketball wants him to do and it's a role that he thrives in. -
09-03-2014, 12:27 PMtyler
Idk but didn't stats help the Greg stiemsma look serviceable? Correct me if i'm wrong
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09-03-2014, 12:40 PMda ThRONe
I will correct your fallacy and flat out false statements one at a time.
This is a list of the top 25 players next year. As it stands it looks like Drummond role could go from 4th option to 1st. While you can make a case that Davis will be the 1st option for us, but he'll have barring another crazy year of injuries more guys looking for their offense that's better skilled than most of last year. Therefore he's more likely to dip in production if only the raw numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
I never said I evaluate players to different degrees. I said the level of expectation increase the level of scrutiny. I never argued that Davis wasn't a good player never once. I have always resisted against calling him a franchise changing player or a potential top player in the game. Those kinds of players are rare and what is expected of them are incredible difficult. So to pass the test it is extremely difficult and I'm not sold on Davis based on what I see and this has been discussed here ad nauseam.Quote:
We are not having an mvp discussion. We are talking about the top 25 list that DT released where he had AD behind Drummond. We also have DT admitting he evaluates players to different degrees even though they are on the same list.
False. I have not ignored anything. I just think numbers need to be kept in perspective. Someone (maybe it was you) correctly pointed out that I said if I had to ranked the 2012 class right now I would put Davis ahead of Drummond as of last year. The reason being is because of Davis stats. So how can you make a point that I'm ignoring stats? This is for the 2014-15 season where I think Davis teammates will help him win more, but hurt his stat line. It's funny that you would comment on me ignoring others when for many it doesn't seem to matter what I actually say only what some of you want to perceive it as.Quote:
There is not 3 equal factors that make a player better than another. The problem with DTs entire argument is he is using one, his own eye test, and completely ignoring all other eye tests and all stats and then ignores all arguments made against him because (my eyes see AD more critical). He complains of not being taken seriously but doesn't actually want to listen to people's argument. He also will not stand behind his comments when challenged and instead tries to deflect.
False Lillard isn't even on my list.Quote:
Keep in mind I haven't ranked AD or said he will be top 3, 5, or 10 for this season. I have taken exception to DTs ranking of AD behind Drummond because I think that is the clearest sign of his trolling. He doesn't want AD top 10-15 ok fine. But he ranks players like Lillard top 10 and Drummond ahead of Davis.
Next this list is a projection for next season and for the X time I think Drummond role increases exponentially next season(provided Monroe is traded which I believe will happen) on top of my opinion that he has more potential than Davis.
If you can't read this one post and see your own flaws in this discussion I don't really know what to tell you. You are so hell bent on proving me wrong you aren't addressing this topic from a logical stand point in anything shy of "I was dead wrong Davis is the greatest player ever" you will look so hard for fault in my post you will only find your own. -
09-03-2014, 01:09 PMMythrol
Now you are making an argument I can understand DT. Makes it a lot easier to take you seriously.
Just to make it clear, here is my argument for Davis over Drummond:
Let's compare shooting 0-3ft -
Drummond took 81% of his shots within 3ft of the goal. He finished those at a 68% rate.
Davis took 40% of his shots within 3ft of the goal. He finished those at a 70% rate.
3-10ft -
Drummond took 17% of his shots between 3-10ft of the goal. He finished those at a 39% rate.
Davis took 21% of his shots between 3-10ft of the goal. He finished those at a 41% rate.
10-16ft -
Drummond took less than 1% of his shots there. At a rate of 25%.
Davis took 18% of his shots there. He finished at a rate of 43%.
Also, only 16% of AD's FG were dunks. 26% of Drummond's were.
Ok, so Davis is a better scorer from every place on the field. But is he as offensively skilled as Drummond or is his offense all transition and put backs?
Let's go to Synergy and see -
Over 36% of Drummond's offense comes from put backs. In those situations he scored 1.05ppp (point per possession).
13% of Davis' offense is from put backs. In those situations he scored 1.27ppp.
The next highest for Drummond was on cuts. Which accounted for 20% of his offense. At a rate of 1.32ppp.
10% of Davis' offense came from cuts. At a rate of 1.24ppp.
The next highest amount of shots for Drummond came from Transition. 14% of his total offense. At a rate of 1.22ppp.
9% of Davis' offense came from Transition. He finished at a rate of 1.53ppp.
The next highest for Drummond was on Post-Ups. 11% of his total offense. At a rate of 0.71ppp.
14% of Davis's offense came from Post-Ups. At a rate of 0.88ppp.
81% of all of Drummond's offense came from these 4 different areas. No other area does Drummond have over 10% of his offense.
Davis on the other hand has 6 different areas where over 10% of his offense came from. He also had multiple areas where Drummond had less than 1% or no attempts of his total offense from. Davis had attempts from Isolation, Spot-Up, P&R Ball Handler, Off Screens, and Hand Offs. His offensive average out of those sets was 1.02ppp.
Out of 8 different offense plays that they both competed in AD beat Drummond on PPP in 6 of those 8. The two areas Drummond beat AD in was by an average 13.5% better. The 6 areas AD beat Drummond by was by an average 18.4% better. Meaning the areas AD beat Drummond in was by more than the areas Drummond beat AD in.
When you combine this with the fact that only 4 different plays accounted for 81% of Drummond's offense it's clear that AD is more skilled than Drummond.
Even when looking at other stats it's clear AD is the better player. For instance even though their Free Throw rates were about 1% apart AD hit them at nearly double the % as Drummond (79.1% for AD compared to 41.8% for Drummond). Because of this even though Drummond had a higher FG % (because 81% of his shots comes from within 3ft of the goal) their TS% was within roughly 1% of each other. AD at 58.2% compared to Drummonds 59.9%. When you realize that AD attempts nearly 50% more shots per game than Drummond you understand exactly how good AD is.
As a matter of fact there is only 1 area that Drummond clearly beats AD in and that's rebounds. When you look at per game stats AD put up 21pts and 10 rebounds. Drummond averaged 13pts and 13 rebounds. Their defense rebounding was actually only about 4% apart from each other but because Drummond has no range on offense he stays at the rim for putbacks and his offensive rebounding is higher. Overall Drummond has a Total Rebound Rate of 22% compared to Davis' 17%.
However, Davis is far better than Drummond in multiple areas. He has an assist rate that while low is still almost 400% higher than Drummond's (8% compared to 2.2%). He has a block rate that's 67% higher. Also, even though his usage was almost 10% higher (25.2% compared to 16.7%) than Drummond's his turnover rate was actually 23% lower than Drummond. This also tells us that Drummond isn't looked to on the offensive end as average usage rate would be 20%.
There are no good defensive stats available to the public so all we are left with is DRtg which they are identical in at 104 and Defensive Win Share which they are within 3/10th of a % of each other in. We are also left with the Synergy stats that say AD ranked 104th in overall defense compared to Drummond at 190th. AD allowed on overage .84 ppp on defense compared to Drummond's .88 ppp (yes that's the difference between 104th and 190th). He allowed .73ppp from Isolation compared to Drummond's .93ppp. Basically every area AD beat Drummond on defense was by 20% or more except for 1 area (he beat him by 5%). There were only 2 areas Drummond was better on the defensive end and by were both better by less than 5%.
What we have here is overall Davis is the clearly the more skilled offensive player, who even though he takes more shots because of his FT % he actually has a shooting % within 1% of someone who takes over 80% of his shots within 3ft of the basket. When you combine that with Davis' advantage in multiple areas including assists, blocks, turnovers, and defense it's clear that Davis is and will be the better player. It would take Davis regressing and Drummond progressing for the two to be considered even much less Drummond as better.
Now someone might argue "the eye test, the eye test" but there is no way any eye test will overcome the overwhelming amount of stats that point to Davis being the better player. And besides, in my eye test Davis is better. Don't believe my eyes? Here's Detroit fans before a game in Jan weighing in on the issue - Spoiler - They choose Davis.
Here's an ESPN Insider article from Jan that breaks down both players. Advantage Davis by a mile.
Sure that was last year though, what about the potential for next year? Remember, Drummond is in a situation with a new coach and possibly Monroe or Smith being moved, while Davis gets both Jrue and Ryan Anderson back and adding Asik. Monty has already stated that AD will be the No. 1 option on the team multiple times.
Drummond has shown nothing other than he sits under the basket or cuts toward the basket for put backs and dunks. The thought that he has the ability to be a No. 1 option based off of stats OR eye test is crazy. He simply hasn't shown it in any facet. Also, his FT% is so horrible that he won't be able to even stay in games as the No. 1 option late. Put into perspective Dwight Howard's LOWEST FT % season was 8% HIGHER than Drummond's HIGHEST season. Heck, Shaq's LOWEST FT% season was 5% higher than Drummond's HIGHEST. On average Shaq shot 13% higher than Drummond from FT.
This is not a person who will be a No. 1 option. And the projection that if he increases his offensive attempts he will be better offensively is not necessarily true. He could just as easily get worse offensively with increased attempts. Even Dwight's highest % of attempts from within 3ft season was still over 15% less attempts than Drummond has averaged. Shaw averaged 53% of his offense within 3ft of the basket. That's 27% less than Drummond. As a no. 1 option teams will just pack the paint and make it impossible for Drummond to do anything. Take him out of 3ft of the basket and his numbers TANK.
And as I've already pointed out, Davis is already better than Drummond on Defense. As he adds size and weight he will just get better.
It's not even close. -
09-03-2014, 01:30 PMUptownFuz504To your point, Kevin Love puts up stellar numbers and its always said around here that he's overrated and puts up numbers on a bad team. Why is it any different when Davis does it? Some of these arguments make no sense. If it applies to one it should apply to all. I personally think that AD is a star but let's not forget that he's doing the same things that other players are doing and we're dismissing their efforts due to the above mentioned reasons. Also, if we're going to call out Melo, Harden, and guys like those who are great players but haven't won, isn't it hypocritical to talk about AD as the best player in the league when in fact he falls into the same categories as some of the players deemed overrated due to their lack of success? I said all of that to say this. This entire convo is an opinion. Without a hard set of guidelines to guide the argument, no one is either right or wrong. It's just opinion. So why is everyone so angry that Da Throne doesn't agree with your opinions? To put this argument into context, we should put together a list of criteria to be in the top 10 and then rank players based on those criteria. Anything else is hyperbole. Eye test vs metrics will always end in an argument. Metrics have so many holes in it and they don't take into account game time situations that you cannot solely rely on them to be a determining factor. Eye test has its own set of faults.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwalker
I don't even know if this post was on topic but I just wanted to say it, dammit. -
09-03-2014, 02:11 PMJabberwalkerQuote:
Originally Posted by UptownFuz504
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09-03-2014, 07:13 PMda ThRONe
1st let me say that this is a much better approach to a discussion that even in your opinion should be a slamdunk.
I don't think there was ever a question about Drummond's range on the court. He's limited. However saying a guy is 2% better statically therefore he's better is the very agrument I make against stats. On the plays how was the spacing? Who was the defender? How much time was left on the shotclock? These are just a handful of question that the raw %'s doesn't answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythrol
I love synergy probably my most favorite subscriptions, but there statically breakdown may be some of the worse. I've seen plays logged in for Davis that was actually Ajinca or times where it was suppose to be Drummond and was Monroe instead. I wouldn't place much faith if any in there numbers.Quote:
Let's go to Synergy and see -
Over 36% of Drummond's offense comes from put backs. In those situations he scored 1.05ppp (point per possession).
13% of Davis' offense is from put backs. In those situations he scored 1.27ppp.
The next highest for Drummond was on cuts. Which accounted for 20% of his offense. At a rate of 1.32ppp.
10% of Davis' offense came from cuts. At a rate of 1.24ppp.
The next highest amount of shots for Drummond came from Transition. 14% of his total offense. At a rate of 1.22ppp.
9% of Davis' offense came from Transition. He finished at a rate of 1.53ppp.
The next highest for Drummond was on Post-Ups. 11% of his total offense. At a rate of 0.71ppp.
14% of Davis's offense came from Post-Ups. At a rate of 0.88ppp.
81% of all of Drummond's offense came from these 4 different areas. No other area does Drummond have over 10% of his offense.
Davis on the other hand has 6 different areas where over 10% of his offense came from. He also had multiple areas where Drummond had less than 1% or no attempts of his total offense from. Davis had attempts from Isolation, Spot-Up, P&R Ball Handler, Off Screens, and Hand Offs. His offensive average out of those sets was 1.02ppp.
Out of 8 different offense plays that they both competed in AD beat Drummond on PPP in 6 of those 8. The two areas Drummond beat AD in was by an average 13.5% better. The 6 areas AD beat Drummond by was by an average 18.4% better. Meaning the areas AD beat Drummond in was by more than the areas Drummond beat AD in.
When you combine this with the fact that only 4 different plays accounted for 81% of Drummond's offense it's clear that AD is more skilled than Drummond.
But let's just assume Synergy is spot on. This again proves nothing other than the fact that Drummond is limited in the areas he's affective offensively which we already knew and agree on. This however does not concede that Davis has more skill. It just means being a quality shooter gives you more offensive range.
Here you are showing your bias. 2%(roughly) in one area proves Davis is better yet here you are trying to minimize that same 2% (roughly) when it favors Drummond.Quote:
Even when looking at other stats it's clear AD is the better player. For instance even though their Free Throw rates were about 1% apart AD hit them at nearly double the % as Drummond (79.1% for AD compared to 41.8% for Drummond). Because of this even though Drummond had a higher FG % (because 81% of his shots comes from within 3ft of the goal) their TS% was within roughly 1% of each other. AD at 58.2% compared to Drummonds 59.9%. When you realize that AD attempts nearly 50% more shots per game than Drummond you understand exactly how good AD is.
Drummond is the better rebounder we agree here. Davis is the better shot blocker we agree here. However Drummond had another great shot blocker on the team in Josh Smith. As far as the assist stats this is as much as a result of coaching and teammeats as it does Drummond vs Davis passing abilities. Davis not turning the ball over is a sign of his inability to create IMO.Quote:
As a matter of fact there is only 1 area that Drummond clearly beats AD in and that's rebounds. When you look at per game stats AD put up 21pts and 10 rebounds. Drummond averaged 13pts and 13 rebounds. Their defense rebounding was actually only about 4% apart from each other but because Drummond has no range on offense he stays at the rim for putbacks and his offensive rebounding is higher. Overall Drummond has a Total Rebound Rate of 22% compared to Davis' 17%.
However, Davis is far better than Drummond in multiple areas. He has an assist rate that while low is still almost 400% higher than Drummond's (8% compared to 2.2%). He has a block rate that's 67% higher. Also, even though his usage was almost 10% higher (25.2% compared to 16.7%) than Drummond's his turnover rate was actually 23% lower than Drummond. This also tells us that Drummond isn't looked to on the offensive end as average usage rate would be 20%.
Again synergy should not be used to inconsistent.Quote:
There are no good defensive stats available to the public so all we are left with is DRtg which they are identical in at 104 and Defensive Win Share which they are within 3/10th of a % of each other in. We are also left with the Synergy stats that say AD ranked 104th in overall defense compared to Drummond at 190th. AD allowed on overage .84 ppp on defense compared to Drummond's .88 ppp (yes that's the difference between 104th and 190th). He allowed .73ppp from Isolation compared to Drummond's .93ppp. Basically every area AD beat Drummond on defense was by 20% or more except for 1 area (he beat him by 5%). There were only 2 areas Drummond was better on the defensive end and by were both better by less than 5%.
This is bad logic because you are comparing a guy that was pretty much option #1 with plays drawn up for him to option #4 guy with plays rarely drawn for him. Then saying well since option #1 guys has better stats he is the better skilled player.Quote:
What we have here is overall Davis is the clearly the more skilled offensive player, who even though he takes more shots because of his FT % he actually has a shooting % within 1% of someone who takes over 80% of his shots within 3ft of the basket. When you combine that with Davis' advantage in multiple areas including assists, blocks, turnovers, and defense it's clear that Davis is and will be the better player. It would take Davis regressing and Drummond progressing for the two to be considered even much less Drummond as better.
Now someone might argue "the eye test, the eye test" but there is no way any eye test will overcome the overwhelming amount of stats that point to Davis being the better player. And besides, in my eye test Davis is better. Don't believe my eyes? Here's Detroit fans before a game in Jan weighing in on the issue - Spoiler - They choose Davis.
Here's an ESPN Insider article from Jan that breaks down both players. Advantage Davis by a mile.
Sure that was last year though, what about the potential for next year? Remember, Drummond is in a situation with a new coach and possibly Monroe or Smith being moved, while Davis gets both Jrue and Ryan Anderson back and adding Asik. Monty has already stated that AD will be the No. 1 option on the team multiple times.
Drummond has shown nothing other than he sits under the basket or cuts toward the basket for put backs and dunks. The thought that he has the ability to be a No. 1 option based off of stats OR eye test is crazy. He simply hasn't shown it in any facet. Also, his FT% is so horrible that he won't be able to even stay in games as the No. 1 option late. Put into perspective Dwight Howard's LOWEST FT % season was 8% HIGHER than Drummond's HIGHEST season. Heck, Shaq's LOWEST FT% season was 5% higher than Drummond's HIGHEST. On average Shaq shot 13% higher than Drummond from FT.
This is not a person who will be a No. 1 option. And the projection that if he increases his offensive attempts he will be better offensively is not necessarily true. He could just as easily get worse offensively with increased attempts. Even Dwight's highest % of attempts from within 3ft season was still over 15% less attempts than Drummond has averaged. Shaw averaged 53% of his offense within 3ft of the basket. That's 27% less than Drummond. As a no. 1 option teams will just pack the paint and make it impossible for Drummond to do anything. Take him out of 3ft of the basket and his numbers TANK.
And as I've already pointed out, Davis is already better than Drummond on Defense. As he adds size and weight he will just get better.
It's not even close.[/QUOTE] -
09-03-2014, 07:45 PMMythrol
So let me see if I have this right. Synergy, the website that actual teams use is too inconsistent for your esteemed evaluations? Come on. Your attempt of trying to undermine stats to protect your theory is just silly. They ALL show Davis not only more skilled but with a much larger array of offensive skills. To me this shows your biggest bias because you refuse to acknowledge that over 56% of Drummond's offense came from two players types or that 81% came from 4. AD shows MUCH greater skill on the offensive end. If you cannot acknowledge this simple fact, yes fact, then I can't see any further discussion.
The 2% bias that you were trying to claim is irrelevant. My point wasn't that AD was 2% better. It was that FROM EVERY RANGE he was better. Period. Even from within 3ft where Drummond takes over 80% of his shots, AD was better.
Davis not turning the ball over means he can't create? I'm sorry but, wtf? How does that correlate? No. Davis not turning the ball over means he's MORE EFFICIENT. I've already posted the numbers for isolation, spot-up, and multiple other areas.
I also don't understand the assist argument. The coach told Drummond to not pass the ball? No. Drummond doesn't get assists because his entire offensive game is based around cuts to the basket and put backs.
I see you also glossed over Drummond's FT shooting which was one of my main points about why he won't be better than Davis this coming season.
Davis was more versatile on offense, better from EVERY range, had multiple areas of attempts showing his ability to score no matter the situation. He has the better defensive stats, better passing, blocking, turnovers, he played with a team of scrubs yet somehow was able to assist 400% more than Drummond.
Drummond hasn't shown you ability to play outside of 3 ft. He's a far worse ft shooter than other possible comparable big men. His inability to make FTs limits him extremely late in games and shows his lack of ability to extend his range beyond 3ft. It also shows he will not be able to be a No. 1 option on a team because he has no offensive game, or ability to punish people for fouling him. His lack of usage when increased doesn't indicate he will become more efficient, it will mean that once / if he becomes a focal point of the offense that teams can easily negate him. Push him outside of 3ft and he has shown he can't give you anything.
He is Asik with less TOs but worse rebounding and FT shooting.
My offer for a bet still stands and I can't wait to resurrect this thread come year's end. -
09-03-2014, 08:26 PMsaintsinNOThis makes no sense. No one is getting irate or losing sleep, you are making it that way with hyperbole simply because some choose to engage a person who they feel is obviously wrong. You are the one talking about things completely off subject. You are contradicting yourself. "Don't let anyone on the internet bother you enough to continue to respond to them," yet you continue to respond to people who let things on the internet bother them? USING ALL CAPS NO LESS?! You are contradicting yourself, not Mythrol.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmcuc
Same as with MM, if you don't want to engage then don't, but there is nothing wrong with people calling the guy out.
The guy is obviously wrong and way off base and everyone can clearly see that now because people choose to call him out. -
09-03-2014, 08:46 PMjdmcucI wasn't bothered. I found it funny that he wanted to place a large amount of money over something that was said online. How am I contradicting myself? Yes, it is fine to debate but what's the need to call someone a troll just because they have a difference in opinion? Even if I don't agree with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsinNO
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09-03-2014, 09:15 PMwuggie
I've accepted DaThrone's opinion as much as this team name, colors, and jersey's lol in other words you can't change it, so the only thing you can do is accept it and keep it moving. You don't have to like but you what else your gonna do about it? Even if we managed to change it, what would we get out it honestly? :huh:He's a fan just like everyone of us, let him be or ignore him if he bothers you this much.
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09-03-2014, 09:34 PMjdmcucExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by wuggie
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09-03-2014, 09:38 PMsaintsinNOHe doesn't simply have a difference of opinion. Not sure how much you read on here, but the guy is constantly saying outlandish things with no support. He is a troll. People have offered to hear him out over and over again, but he has yet to offer anything in the way of objective support for his opinions. He does it to be different or he is missing the area of the brain that controls reasoning. The guy is a troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmcuc
As for the contradiction, you, and others, have the opinion of 'if it's on the internet let it go and don't engage...yada yada,' yet you seem to take issue with others on the internet addressing it how they see fit. Just as what you say with Da Throne, if you don't like it or find it dumb then just keep it moving. But you are addressing something petty on the internet just like he is. Nothing wrong with calling out a troll. -
09-03-2014, 09:47 PMjdmcucNot sure how you define troll, Ive come to know it as someone how deliberately stirs to cause trouble. So if he's a troll, he's getting exactly what he's come for when you react the way you do. To me he just has a difference in opinion, and from my observation, a lot of people are almost getting mad.Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsinNO