Burke "I"m hearing between #2 and #6"

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

There's been some guys who tout inside connections that believe there's no way we draft him. But in truth, no one really knows what they want. Monty or Dell would never come out and say who they want. We'll hear rumors...but those are not worth the grain of salt you take it with.

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agreed, if u go look at the advanced stats burke is a far better defender than lillard was in college vs even worse compeititon, lillards sophmore year he had a defensive rating of 105 compared to burke's 99, even lillards senior year he only had a 101 rating

burke also had more win shares than bledsoe, lillard and mccollum

how would yall feel about drafting burke, trading GV for a late first round pick and possibly drafting steven adams, gobbert or dieng and then signing martel webster and budinger and this lineup:

Burke/Roberts
Gordon/Rivers
Budinger/Webster
AD/Ryno
Lopez/Adams, gobbert, dieng

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

agreed, if u go look at the advanced stats burke is a far better defender than lillard was in college vs even worse compeititon, lillards sophmore year he had a defensive rating of 105 compared to burke's 99, even lillards senior year he only had a 101 rating

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But Lillard played on a worse defensive team which hurts his defensive rating. Burke's D-Rating was lower than his team's rating meaning the defense was worse while he was on the floor. I think both are similar defenders. Lillard better as a score. Burke is better as a passer. But both are similar. I could see Burke starting right away. Just like Porter.

drtg just needs to not exist as an individual player stat. It is worse than useless in that context because it makes so many people come to the wrong conclusion about a player's defensive impact.

You can kind of use it when comparing against other players in the same lineup, but it won't make much sense even then. The best defensive player on a poor defensive team can be put on the best offensive player for the other team which can cause his drtg to be the lowest. Or, the worst defensive player on a team can be put on the worst offensive player on another and then have the best drtg on a team.

Using individual player drtg effectively requires so much more context than any of us would want to take the time to create. Using it on a lineup basis and seeing the difference one lineup has on opposing lineups during minutes they are on the floor together would be a much better use of the stat.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

drtg just needs to not exist as an individual player stat. It is worse than useless in that context because it makes so many people come to the wrong conclusion about a player's defensive impact.

You can kind of use it when comparing against other players in the same lineup, but it won't make much sense even then. The best defensive player on a poor defensive team can be put on the best offensive player for the other team which can cause his drtg to be the lowest. Or, the worst defensive player on a team can be put on the worst offensive player on another and then have the best drtg on a team.

Using individual player drtg effectively requires so much more context than any of us would want to take the time to create. Using it on a lineup basis and seeing the difference one lineup has on opposing lineups during minutes they are on the floor together would be a much better use of the stat.

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very good post

also when burke has to be the man for michigan and he knows it, its hard to play 100% defense when u know ur gonna have to give it ur all on offense, reading the D, running the pick and roll, making good passes, its physically and mentally exhausting, maybe with gordon and davis he could be more efficient.

lol in chad ford's new big board he made a lot of changes, funny thing is he has 6 people projected as top 5 picks lol, anyway his new top 10 is

noel
oladipo
porter
mclemore
bennett
burke
mcw
mcollum
len
zeller

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Originally Posted by Kibner

drtg just needs to not exist as an individual player stat. It is worse than useless in that context because it makes so many people come to the wrong conclusion about a player's defensive impact.

You can kind of use it when comparing against other players in the same lineup, but it won't make much sense even then. The best defensive player on a poor defensive team can be put on the best offensive player for the other team which can cause his drtg to be the lowest. Or, the worst defensive player on a team can be put on the worst offensive player on another and then have the best drtg on a team.

Using individual player drtg effectively requires so much more context than any of us would want to take the time to create. Using it on a lineup basis and seeing the difference one lineup has on opposing lineups during minutes they are on the floor together would be a much better use of the stat.

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Was about to post the same thing after reading Guru's comments.

Actually, DRTG is practically useless in terms of evaluating a player's defensive ability. The main use of DRTG isn't as a measure of defensive ability but of defensive performance (two totally differing ability). You can have great defensive ability but perform badly on defense because of several factors (awful teammates, bad team gameplan). Conversely you can perform well on defense even if your defensive ability is not good (teammates cleaning up mistakes for you). This is because DRTG has an underlying assumption of "equality" among teammates (in terms of some non-box score stats but of defensive score sheet) which paves way for the inclusion of "team DRTG" into the equation. Clearly this is not true. The presence of LARRY SANDERS! (as an example) makes perimeter players from attacking the basket creating the allusion that a specific perimeter player is good, when in fact, his effect on the defense is very little.

As Kibner said, individually, DRTG is useless. It's main purpose (well for me), is for it to bring it back to the team level. Win Share is a product of this (distributing wins among player's offensive and defensive performance). Putting lineup combinations are another (whether that's 2,3,4 or 5 man rotation). So don't use DRTG as an argument to say that "Player A is better than Player B, defensively because of DRTG".

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

how would yall feel about drafting burke, trading GV for a late first round pick and possibly drafting steven adams, gobbert or dieng and then signing martel webster and budinger and this lineup:

Burke/Roberts
Gordon/Rivers
Budinger/Webster
AD/Ryno
Lopez/Adams, gobbert, dieng

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Love it except I think we can purchase a late pick like Gobert, Adams or Dieng.
Also I think Smith has to fit in there somewhere as well as Miller.

Burke/Vasquez/Roberts
Gordon/Rivers/Miller
Budinger/Webster/Miller
Davis/Anderson/Smith
Lopez/Smith/Gobert

Then trade Vasquez, Roberts or Lopez at the deadline if something appeals.

Hornetguru, you know you can edit your posts and add info instead of posting 3-4 times in a row, right?

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

Hornetguru, you know you can edit your posts and add info instead of posting 3-4 times in a row, right?

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But you get 3-4 posts instead of 1.

When I watch Burke his biggest issue on defense is defending the PnR. His technique is awful. He essentially sets himself up to be screened. I think it's something that's correctable. His energy output on that end was sub par. I haven't noticed a significant lack of quickness.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

When I watch Burke his biggest issue on defense is defending the PnR. His technique is awful. He essentially sets himself up to be screened. I think it's something that's correctable. His energy output on that end was sub par. I haven't noticed a significant lack of quickness.

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I think that really can be attributed to having to go 1000 mph on offense at all times with that Michigan team. I think that mindset along with the PnR problem are correctable with Monty here.

As for Guru's lineup there, it's basically what I want to do as well. I think Miller is ready to be a full time backup and a late round pick can easily be bought in this draft without forcing GV out when his value is so high, he's worth more than a late round first.

Burke/GV (until a move is made)
Gordon/Rivers
Brewer or Webster/Miller
AD/Anderson/Smith
Lopez/Smith/Adams

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Originally Posted by endlessHIMdark

Sources tell the Times-Picayune that the Pelicans like the idea of pairing Michigan PG Trey Burke with Greivis Vasquez.
The Hornets hold the No. 6 overall pick in June's draft. If they think Vasquez is capable of playing the shooting guard spot, they can try to trade Eric Gordon and target Burke in the draft.

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This would be horrible.

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

Hornetguru, you know you can edit your posts and add info instead of posting 3-4 times in a row, right?

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yes i do know that but everytime i hit edit it wouldnt come up so something was either wrong with my ipad or the server, all it would let me do is do a new post.

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze

I think that really can be attributed to having to go 1000 mph on offense at all times with that Michigan team. I think that mindset along with the PnR problem are correctable with Monty here.

As for Guru's lineup there, it's basically what I want to do as well. I think Miller is ready to be a full time backup and a late round pick can easily be bought in this draft without forcing GV out when his value is so high, he's worth more than a late round first.

Burke/GV (until a move is made)
Gordon/Rivers
Brewer or Webster/Miller
AD/Anderson/Smith
Lopez/Smith/Adams

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exactly, imagine in 2 years if we could luck out and draft someone like jabari parker, i know its a big if but:

burke/roberts
gordon/rivers
parker/brewer/miller
davis/ryno
adams/lopez

Drafting 19yrs old kids is not going to help us get to the playoffs in the next of couple of years. We also need veterans on the roster to teach the young pups how to win in the NBA.

Looking at some of the proposed Pelican lineups, does the concensus of the posters here feel that we will retain Gordon or trade him?

Does Eric still want to be here?

Sorry, a little new at posting on this site. Been here a while but mostly read (and enjoy) posts since basketball is not my forte.

Thanks.

davehornet (I know, I have to change the name)

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Originally Posted by davehornet

Looking at some of the proposed Pelican lineups, does the concensus of the posters here feel that we will retain Gordon or trade him?

Does Eric still want to be here?

Sorry, a little new at posting on this site. Been here a while but mostly read (and enjoy) posts since basketball is not my forte.

Thanks.

davehornet (I know, I have to change the name)

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i personally think we give him until the trade deadline to prove himself after having a full off season, if he doesnt perform then he's traded hopefully for a draft pick in next years loaded draft, it has all kinds of SF's and SG's we could really luck out.

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Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 58m
Draft Rumor Blog: What will Cavs do with No. 1 pick? Magic's top PG target is not Trey Burke, more ... http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/...r-draft-rumors … (insider)

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I read that too Fly, but i don't have insider. Anyone know if it says who is?

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Originally Posted by All Metro

This would be horrible.

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Yeah the only role I want GV in is backup point guard. As a 2 he still has a quickness issue now you just take away his height advantage.

It was mentioned on this board that they would like to let GV play spot up 3. Where this 2 talk comes from is new to me.

Despite their need at point guard, sources say the Magic aren't sold on Trey Burke as the second-best player in the draft. While they certainly haven't ruled out Burke with the No. 2 pick, Orlando is also eyeing Indiana's Victor Oladipo and Kansas' Ben McLemore. However, Oladipo and McLemore play the same position as Arron Afflalo, the Magic's leading scorer last season. ESPN.com



Sources say the Magic have a lot of interest in Clippers point guard Eric Bledsoe and would be willing to trade Afflalo for Bledsoe and Caron Butler's expiring contract. ESPN.com