Who should become the first person to be drafted to the pelicans?

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Originally Posted by greewe

Yes, Burke hit the big shot. Does hitting the big shot mean you are carrying your team?

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Yes.

He is avg 12/8/1 in the tourney.


I'll take that from our current pg.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

Yes.

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You have a very surface-level understanding of basketball then.

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Originally Posted by greewe

You have a very surface-level understanding of basketball then.

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If you saw the last 3 minutes, plus that big shot, plus overtime, then that surface becomes multi-layered. ;)

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Originally Posted by greewe

You have a very surface-level understanding of basketball then.

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But here is the thing. You could say "oh he is only a chucker!" Like you could Bazz, but you would be wrong as he is much more consistent.
You could say "well all he does is pass to better players!" Like MCW, but you would be wrong as Burke has the best Asst/ TO ratio in the country at 3.31.
You can say, "Well he doesn't cause turnovers!" But he has one of the lowest st/PF ratios at .35.

He does a lot more good than bad.

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Originally Posted by greewe

Not buying it. Burke is great, but Michigan has a lot of talent around him. This isn't a Georgetown situation. One player isn't responsible for Michigan's success.

We've seen plenty of players who can put forth elite effort on both ends of the floor. So I'm also not buying that Burke has to choose one or the other.

I really do like Burke. But Michigan's defensive efficiency, given their team talent, is worrisome to me. Burke may have all the tools to be a fine defender, but like I say about Shabazz, I would feel way more comfortable if he actually was a great defender at this point in his career. There are plenty of guys in this league who have the physical tools to be a great defender, but for whatever reason end up being one way players.

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You clearly have not watched this team all year. No Burke = NIT for UM he was that important.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

But here is the thing. You could say "oh he is only a chucker!" Like you could Bazz, but you would be wrong as he is much more consistent.
You could say "well all he does is pass to better players!" Like MCW, but you would be wrong as Burke has the best Asst/ TO ratio in the country at 3.31.
You can say, "Well he doesn't cause turnovers!" But he has one of the lowest st/PF ratios at .35.

He does a lot more good than bad.

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Read my posts. I've said repeatedly that Burke is a fine player and that I would be fine with the Hornets drafting him.

All I'm saying is that he had an inefficient game until Johnson came in, who clearly couldn't guard him. He took great advantage of a Kansas coaching error. However, his inability to do anything against Tharpe concerns me, as does his questionable defensive reputation.

I'm just trying to cool some of the hyperbole here. He went 9-21 against a porous defender. If it weren't for a talented supporting cast, including an elite performance from McGary, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It was a very nice performance from Burke, but not some sort of generational game that should shoot him to the top of our draft board. That is all.

I think we've gotten all the mileage out of this particular discussion as we're going to get. This is getting repetitive. Thanks for the discourse.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

But here is the thing. You could say "oh he is only a chucker!" Like you could Bazz, but you would be wrong as he is much more consistent.
You could say "well all he does is pass to better players!" Like MCW, but you would be wrong as Burke has the best Asst/ TO ratio in the country at 3.31.
You can say, "Well he doesn't cause turnovers!" But he has one of the lowest st/PF ratios at .35.

He does a lot more good than bad.

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I agree with most of this besides the last one. Could you elaborate more on how causing turnovers and steal to foul ratio disproves that? Or are you saying at least he's not fouling instead of stealing?

I am saying he is more calculated in his steels than just swiping at the ball like an animal reaching for something enticing. He is smart about how he has gone about doing things. So fewer fouls= longer you can keep him on the court helping you.

Kansas is saying the same thing that North Dakota St said, like such and such team before him said which is "Oh well he didnt perform well against us." Well he performed well enough to put a W on the ledger as the captain of the team.

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Originally Posted by greewe

He didn't even have the best game on his team. McGary put up 25/14 on 4 fewer shots than Burke, all against arguably the best defender in the country in Withey.

Yes, Burke hit the big shot. Does hitting the big shot mean you are carrying your team?

Look, I like Burke. I just hate the hyperbole that comes after this kind of game. Burke is a great player. But he had help from a poor KU performance down the stretch, and great teammates. I don't think this performance vaults him to the top of the board. That's all.

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Wait, is anyone saying he got vaulted to the top of the board? I may have missed it

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Wait, is anyone saying he got vaulted to the top of the board? I may have missed it

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At least 4 different people in this thread. Several more on the other site.

I never said he got vaulted to the top, matter of fact, I believe we can move down a spot or two and still get him while netting us something extra.

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Originally Posted by greewe

You have a very surface-level understanding of basketball then.

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Hardly. Rather I'm tired of belaboring the point. You made it clear your thoughts on the matter. "Yes" will suffice.

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Originally Posted by greewe

Read my posts. I've said repeatedly that Burke is a fine player and that I would be fine with the Hornets drafting him.

All I'm saying is that he had an inefficient game until Johnson came in, who clearly couldn't guard him. He took great advantage of a Kansas coaching error. However, his inability to do anything against Tharpe concerns me, as does his questionable defensive reputation.

I'm just trying to cool some of the hyperbole here. He went 9-21 against a porous defender. If it weren't for a talented supporting cast, including an elite performance from McGary, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It was a very nice performance from Burke, but not some sort of generational game that should shoot him to the top of our draft board. That is all.

I think we've gotten all the mileage out of this particular discussion as we're going to get. This is getting repetitive. Thanks for the discourse.

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The problem with your post is it's a surface-level analyst based on the last few games.

You say you don't buy his reputation as a below average defender based on his need to carry the team on the other end when he has a high usage rate and mins per game rate. You praise his teammates many of whom were m.i.a. on any given game all season long.

You talk about his slow start against Kansas which he only attempted 4 shots but fail to account for his 5 1st half assist. Again if you followed Burke all season you would know starting slow and ending strong is something he's done multiple times this season. You say one big shot isn't carrying the team but he scored the 13 of UM last 21 points.

To think that is as if the only thing he did all game was hit one shot.

Burke looks good but I think Rivers is our future point guard. If we got rid of Vasques maybe but I think mony would want a veteran backup PG behind Rivers. I think we look at 2,3, or 5 in the draft unless we fall to pick 8 and McLemore, smart(combo guard who I think will play more 2), Porter, and Shabazz are gone then we may take a look at Burke or trade down.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

Burke looks good but I think Rivers is our future point guard. If we got rid of Vasques maybe but I think mony would want a veteran backup PG behind Rivers. I think we look at 2,3, or 5 in the draft unless we fall to pick 8 and McLemore, smart(combo guard who I think will play more 2), Porter, and Shabazz are gone then we may take a look at Burke or trade down.

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That is something I'm curious about. If we draft Burke have we already given up on Rivers and relegated him to a 6th man after him only playing 3/4 of a single season? I understand you take BPA but if someone like Bennett or Bazz are sitting there do you really take Burke? If we draft slightly higher and Smart is there do you take Burke over him? I'm not really judging either way, I'm just curious what people think.

Burke would help us more long-term than Shabazz or Bennett since PG is a huge need and Rivers is most likely gonna project as a 6th man type. This is all assuming Gordon will be here long-term. Burke can play off the ball with his shooting and can run the point much better than GV or Rivers ever could. Now, if Gordon is not here long-term than we're gonna need a SG or a perimeter score who can create his own shot.

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Originally Posted by Pelicans78

Burke would help us more long-term than Shabazz or Bennett since PG is a huge need and Rivers is most likely gonna project as a 6th man type. This is all assuming Gordon will be here long-term. Burke can play off the ball with his shooting and can run the point much better than GV or Rivers ever could. Now, if Gordon is not here long-term than we're gonna need a SG or a perimeter score who can create his own shot.

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Im just curious what's that based off of? If my understanding is correct Rivers played mainly SG in college and with Gordon's injury earlier this year he played the large majority of his minutes at SG this season. Dude hasn't had even half a season of playing PG yet.

Rivers was a ball dominant 2 in college.

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Originally Posted by greewe

He didn't even have the best game on his team. McGary put up 25/14 on 4 fewer shots than Burke, all against arguably the best defender in the country in Withey.

Yes, Burke hit the big shot. Does hitting the big shot mean you are carrying your team?

Look, I like Burke. I just hate the hyperbole that comes after this kind of game. Burke is a great player. But he had help from a poor KU performance down the stretch, and great teammates. I don't think this performance vaults him to the top of the board. That's all.

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I love your post and I hate hyperbole too.

It's not hyperbole. I've been on this train for a long time. The kid has PUT Michigan in this spot. Without Burke that team is barely in the tourny.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Rivers was a ball dominant 2 in college.

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I'm sorry but BULL____. As a UNC fan I know much better than this. He was NOT.

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Originally Posted by Purple Haze

I love your post and I hate hyperbole too.

It's not hyperbole. I've been on this train for a long time. The kid has PUT Michigan in this spot. Without Burke that team is barely in the tourny.

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And it's MORE impressive that he did it with good players on his team who weren't willing to step up to the moment. Not only that, but they've all accepted him as their leader.

Monty seems to like combo guards. I think Smart fills that role where I believe Burke is more a PG only.

If we did get burke, Rivers and Gordon would be on the first unit and Burke would be first off the bench. He would definately be instant offense for the second squad and rivers could slide to the 2.

I'll be happy with most any pick except Len, Zellers, or Plumlee. I think all these are overrated but just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by tdcreator

Monty seems to like combo guards. I think Smart fills that role where I believe Burke is more a PG only.

If we did get burke, Rivers and Gordon would be on the first unit and Burke would be first off the bench. He would definately be instant offense for the second squad and rivers could slide to the 2.

I'll be happy with most any pick except Len, Zellers, or Plumlee. I think all these are overrated but just my opinion.

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Burke would easily start over Rivers at the point right now. No real debate about it. Plus he's a better fit next to Gordon because of his shooting and he doesn't need the ball in his hands as much as Rivers to be effective.