AD trade scenarios...

The Warriors believe Kevin Durant’s MRI on Tuesday will confirm a torn right Achilles’ tendon, league sources tell me and @wojespn

— Ramona Shelburne (@ramonashelburne) June 11, 2019

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

I think...

So here’s what’s up. These dudes all have GroupMe and talk to each other daily. It’s true, trust me on this.

Kyrie wants to go to Nets.
KD still wanted to go to Knicks.
KD says... they can get AD with us on Knicks.
Kyrie says if they do, I’m coming. If not, you come to Nets.
Kyrie says what if Nets get AD?
KD was sending out a lot of “...” but no real commitment.

Now?

Kyrie goes to Nets. I think.
But maybe Boston thinks they can get him to reconsider if the KD team up is off the table.
Knicks know they’re not getting Kyrie.
Knicks also know Kemba is resigning with Hornets.
Knicks have no idea who the heck they’d pair AD with right now if they trade everything for him. They have to have some trepidation about going all in.

Rich Paul, grimy as ever, is going to press the issue while folks are trying to assess the landscape to try and get AD to Lakers for a package less than what Magic offered.

Pelicans best hope now? Dark horse team out there is serious and real and puts an offer together. Or Nets and/or Celtics step up, realizing the Knicks aren’t going to emerge as a super team this summer.

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Why would the Knicks be worried about who they were going to pair with AD this year when AD has already said publicly he would stay there long term?

The Knicks main goal should be getting AD on their team, especially now lore than ever, so they can attract more players the next summer.

If anything I could see the KD injury making them more desperate to get AD.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

With the Lakers it's not past ineptitude. It's current ineptitude. Unless you've missed like, all the news for the last 5 months or so.

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Yeah but they have James. He's still a top 5 player. Davis has never played with a top 15-20 player. That's still a better situation than he's had here and in a mega market with a legacy team. Let's stop acting like these things don't matter.

If the Lakers trade happens, I wonder how many around here would root for them?

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

It’s insane that AD wants to go two of the most dysfunctional franchises in basketball.

The Lakers coaching situation is absurd, Magic just quit, and the roster will get gutted for him to join a 34 year old LeBron that’s making almost 40 million a year.

The Knicks owner and franchise have been a joke for close to two decades. I know they made the playoffs for like 3 seasons with Carmelo, but they still were no serious contender.

Boston has been a contender for decades pretty much with one of the best GMs & coaches in basketball. You would think it would be a no brainer on which team he would want to join. I guess he figures he will either join LeBron in LA or KD in New York. I’m sure he talked to both of them and KD said if you get traded to the Knicks I’m coming there.

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Let me see. AD + LBJ + probable 3rd star in LA or rebuild with Zion. Hmmm, yeah that’s a tough one.........Not. LA all day. Same with Bos and KYK. He’ll be in a rebuild. LA makes perfect since for him

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Why would the Knicks be worried about who they were going to pair with AD this year when AD has already said publicly he would stay there long term?

The Knicks main goal should be getting AD on their team, especially now lore than ever, so they can attract more players the next summer.

If anything I could see the KD injury making them more desperate to get AD.

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AD said he would stay there long term, with the full expectation that he would be teaming up with a healthy Kevin Durant in New York, and possibly Kyrie Irving as well. New York, today, has to decide if they're going to still offer Kevin Durant a 4 year max contract. Griff isn't going to back off his timeline. He's not going to give New York extra time to make their decision because KD got hurt. NY may decide to still give KD a 4 year max. AD may decide that playing a year in New York without KD (and likely on a bad team) is worth it, to play with a hopefully healthy KD in 2020/21 season.

There are lots of ways this could go, but Pelicans fans tend to not be able to see the other shoe until it drops. All I try to do is point out "hey, you know there's a shoe cloud over your head?"

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

After looking at the future draft classes, the 2021 draft looks like the best class in years. Plus that might be the first year high schoolers are aloud to go straight to the league again. So getting the Knicks & Mavs 2021 picks might be the best move to make. Having 3 1st round picks in that draft could be franchise changing for sure. If we do trade with Boston and get that Memphis pick, I sure hope it moves to that class. I might take Boston’s 2021 instead of two picks in this class, but doubt it will be that great a pick. But an end of the 1st that year could be a regular lottery pick if it ends up meeting the current projections and that’s without the possible high schoolers.

I think RJ Barrett will be better than Jayson Tatum. I’m back on the Knick train, so I guess I’m gonna have to hope Robinson, Smith, & Knox become decent role players. Or we get a 3rd team involved.

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The first potential year with high schoolers is 2022, not 2021. I heard Silver himself say it on a talk show a couple weeks back.

People seem to be doing the same thing with LBJ as they did with Melo. The decline is clear. His body can't handle the grind as well. He played in a career low number of games this season and played over 1000 less minutes over the course of this season compared to last.

He's still a really good player but he's only going to decline from here. It really feels like next year might the last year Lebron can perform at what is considered LeBron’s level. Maybe 2 years. We've already seen defensively how he doesn't do much there anymore.

If the Lakers are unable to bring in a 3rd star I don't think LBJ and AD alone are going to be able to carry them deep into the playoffs. That's assuming that LBJ doesn't miss another 30 games and with no help AD is. Unable to get them into the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

AD said he would stay there long term, with the full expectation that he would be teaming up with a healthy Kevin Durant in New York, and possibly Kyrie Irving as well. New York, today, has to decide if they're going to still offer Kevin Durant a 4 year max contract. Griff isn't going to back off his timeline. He's not going to give New York extra time to make their decision because KD got hurt. NY may decide to still give KD a 4 year max. AD may decide that playing a year in New York without KD (and likely on a bad team) is worth it, to play with a hopefully healthy KD in 2020/21 season.

There are lots of ways this could go, but Pelicans fans tend to not be able to see the other shoe until it drops. All I try to do is point out "hey, you know there's a shoe cloud over your head?"

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AD said he wanted to go there at the deadline before any of the KD talk or most of the Kyrie talk. I don't think anyone has denied that there are multiple ways all this could play out...

We've already won no matter how this plays out because by not trading we got Zion which is the most valuable piece we potentially could have gotten for AD. Everything else is extra.

The difference seems to be while most here admit there's multiple ways this could go, most expect it will break the Pelicans way.

You seem dead set on assuming everything will crumble until the Pelicans. This is the reason you wanted to trade with LA before the deadline, this seems to be the reason you try to downplay what Toronto did in trading for Kwahi, and you are now doing the same with the KD injury.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Why would the Knicks be worried about who they were going to pair with AD this year when AD has already said publicly he would stay there long term?

The Knicks main goal should be getting AD on their team, especially now lore than ever, so they can attract more players the next summer.

If anything I could see the KD injury making them more desperate to get AD.

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This injury actually helps the Pels if we can get the Knicks 2020 pick. It has suddenly become much more valuable.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

This injury actually helps the Pels if we can get the Knicks 2020 pick. It has suddenly become much more valuable.

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Knicks 2020 and Dallas 2021. I like it. A 2021 pick is Uber valuable tho. I don't think we could get 2 of them unprotected. So, I take it. .

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

AD said he wanted to go there at the deadline before any of the KD talk or most of the Kyrie talk. I don't think anyone has denied that there are multiple ways all this could play out...

We've already won no matter how this plays out because by not trading we got Zion which is the most valuable piece we potentially could have gotten for AD. Everything else is extra.

The difference seems to be while most here admit there's multiple ways this could go, most expect it will break the Pelicans way.

You seem dead set on assuming everything will crumble until the Pelicans. This is the reason you wanted to trade with LA before the deadline, this seems to be the reason you try to downplay what Toronto did in trading for Kwahi, and you are now doing the same with the KD injury.

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Everyone has known KD was leaning toward the Knicks, even before they cleared the two max spots by trading Kristaps. KD and Draymond had their fight about it in November, and it was in the public space before then. I've always believed Kyrie was leaving Boston. Dude never wanted to be traded there and hasn't vibed with teammates or the fans. My informed belief has always been that unless something drastic happened, Kyrie was leaving Boston and it would ultimately impact what they were willing to offer for AD. And that when/if the team with the best potential draft package dropped out, it would impact what we received from other teams.

Before the deadline, as soon as AD made his demand, I wanted to trade him to the Knicks - not the Lakers.
My only take on the Lakers is that their package is actually good - not that I want him traded there. They offered the Pelicans everything, because they were bidding against a mythical Celtics offer. Now they're bidding against a Knicks team that has to probably gather themselves today to figure out what they're going to do. It's naive to think things didn't change at all for the Knicks last night. The Knicks probably don't know the answer to that yet.

Nothing is crumbling around the Pelicans. They won the lottery and are building a great front office. I feel like as a fan I don't want to be like an oblivious AirBnB tourist. I want to walk, chew gum, and happily whistle my marry self around your neighborhood, but I also better know where the potholes and dangers are because they're real.

Toronto risked nothing. They'd already reached a championshipless ceiling, and their goal was to win a title. It's not the same thing as expecting the Celtics to risk a promising core and future assets on AD.
A Toronto level offer from the Celtics would be something like Hayward, Williams, and the 22nd pick for AD and Moore. People really need to stop comping the two situations, unless they're willing to take comparable return.

If everyone here was doom and gloom, my inclination would probably be to point out the positive. Just trying to bring balance to the board. And I'd think at this point, since I've been mostly right since February about how this would play out, that would be appreciated!

Reading all these great points followed by the massive eye roll from the Nostradamus comment. Not really much has happened yet that everyone on the board didn't see coming.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The Warriors believe Kevin Durant’s MRI on Tuesday will confirm a torn right Achilles’ tendon, league sources tell me and @wojespn

— Ramona Shelburne (@ramonashelburne) June 11, 2019

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With these FA superstar dropping like flies. It should drives up the price for AD.

Sadly, I drop a 3-4 year Max on KD if we wasn't soo close to 34. Hell, I might still do it. Let him miss a year and let the team rebuild, collect another lotto pick. Crazy strategy.

Sadly, I think he is pretty adament in staying in a large market.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Before the deadline, as soon as AD made his demand, I wanted to trade him to the Knicks - not the Lakers.

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Before the deadline, there was no indication of any other offer than the Lakers. Klutch bum-rushed the Pellicans 10 days before the deadline in an attempt to limit the offers from other teams.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Before the deadline, there was no indication of any other offer than the Lakers. Klutch bum-rushed the Pellicans 10 days before the deadline in an attempt to limit the offers from other teams.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDbiaTkpgqg&t=49s

Woj and others said the Knicks were going to be aggressive. We know they offered Kristaps. Once the Kristaps trade was done, we could assume they would offer the assets they received from that deal. That's the trade I wanted. The same one people say they want now.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDbiaTkpgqg&t=49s

Woj and others said the Knicks were going to be aggressive. We know they offered Kristaps. Once the Kristaps trade was done, we could assume they would offer the assets they received from that deal. That's the trade I wanted. The same one people say they want now.

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We never heard of any offer once the Pelicans rejected Kristaps. Even as late as last week, we heard rumblings that they would not part with the #3. There was likely no deal to take that made sense for the Pelicans at the deadline and any team would wait until all offers were on the table before trading a super star rather that rush it in 10 days just to appease the player and/or fans.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Reading all these great points followed by the massive eye roll from the Nostradamus comment. Not really much has happened yet that everyone on the board didn't see coming.

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You use the term everyone loosely.

I argued for weeks with people about whether Boston would be interested and how we were putting our faith that there would be a massive Boston offer in the hands of a dude who believed the earth was flat! And that the Lakers/Knicks offers were good enough to accept before the deadline, because we couldn't control external events that could impact the return. Basic risk/reward analysis. In the end, we lucked up and got Zion. So it doesn't matter... but if we get a Toronto level trade in return for AD we're going to be kicking outselves because DeRozan/Poeltl/#29 level return is not where our expectations have been set on this board.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

You use the term everyone loosely.

I argued for weeks with people about whether Boston would be interested and how we were putting our faith that there would be a massive Boston offer in the hands of a dude who believed the earth was flat! And that the Lakers/Knicks offers were good enough to accept before the deadline, because we couldn't control external events that could impact the return. Basic risk/reward analysis. In the end, we lucked up and got Zion. So it doesn't matter... but if we get a Toronto level trade in return for AD we're going to be kicking outselves because DeRozan/Poeltl/#29 level return is not where our expectations have been set on this board.

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The huge assumption you are making is that the offers we speculate about on a message board are indeed those that are offered to the Pelicans. Other than the Lakers offer, which was publicly announced, we all are still just speculating based on rumors. So, who is to know whether the offers available at the deadline were "good enough" to forego the opportunity to hear all offers on a timeline dictated by the Pelicans and not AD's agent.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

We never heard of any offer once the Pelicans rejected Kristaps. Even as late as last week, we heard rumblings that they would not part with the #3. There was likely no deal to take that made sense for the Pelicans at the deadline and any team would wait until all offers were on the table before trading a super star rather that rush it in 10 days just to appease the player and/or fans.

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Does anyone believe the Knicks wouldn't trade #3??

It'll be interesting to see if the final deal is better than Lonzo/Kuz/Ingram/2019/2021.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Does anyone believe the Knicks wouldn't trade #3??

It'll be interesting to see if the final deal is better than Lonzo/Kuz/Ingram/2019/2021.

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I would argue that even that same deal is not the the same as it was a the deadline. Since then, Ingram's blood clot issue was discovered and Ball continues to have foot problems and the Lakers have gotten a better pick than expected. Do all of those changes wash?
Maybe. There is also the issue of how our record and the Lakers record would have changed had we taken that offer at the deadline. Would it have changed our group of number or the Lakers group of numbers in the lottery such that we do not get Zion and/or they do not get #4?

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

The huge assumption you are making is that the offers we speculate about on a message board are indeed those that are offered to the Pelicans. Other than the Lakers offer, which was publicly announced, we all are still just speculating based on rumors. So, who is to know whether the offers available at the deadline were "good enough" to forego the opportunity to hear all offers on a timeline dictated by the Pelicans and not AD's agent.

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This is exactly the point folks were making in February.. which is why I stopped arguing about hypothetical and only talked about the Lakers deal. Which is why I guess folks forgot that I actually wanted the Knicks deal to begin with! IMO, rehashing old debates again, the Lakers deal was "good enough" because the Celtics deal was hypothetical as well. I also told everyone we were going to have to play AD if we kept him. And while it worked out, no one got hurt, and even though we didn't tank properly we won the lottery - the smarter play was to tank and not put the team in the awkward spot of playing/risking AD.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Does anyone believe the Knicks wouldn't trade #3??

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Logic would tell me that they would give it up, but all we have to go on is what is reported in the media.

"The Pelicans, according to an ESPN report, weren't enamored by any offer the Knicks or any other suitors had made for Davis. So the Knicks had engaged in some dialogue with teams in an effort to improve their offer for Davis, per SNY sources. It's unclear how far along -- if at all -- any of that dialogue was, but some people in the organization were uncomfortable with the idea of trading away significant assets for Davis, citing the way things played out for New York in the wake of the Carmelo Anthony trade, per SNY sources."

SOURCE: https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/rippl...ange/307960890
(quoting an ESPN report)

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

I would argue that even that same deal is not the the same as it was a the deadline. Since then, Ingram's blood clot issue was discovered and Ball continues to have foot problems and the Lakers have gotten a better pick than expected. Do all of those changes wash?
Maybe. There is also the issue of how our record and the Lakers record would have changed had we taken that offer at the deadline. Would it have changed our group of number or the Lakers group of numbers in the lottery such that we do not get Zion and/or they do not get #4?

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Clearly there's no point in arguing about what was... because time travel, and erasing the photo of our parents.

My only point is that some of this stuff - is predictable and we don't have to wait until a Woj bomb to consider the likelihood of certain things happening and their impacts on the Pelicans if they do.