2024 Offseason Thread

If we lose James Borrego, the 2025-2026 is a wrap. How many great assistant coaches must pass through the Pelicans organization before they find a decent head coach (Finch, Malone, Borrego)? We have become a farm team even for coaching.

Our Front Office is pretty stupid not to realize our back up coach is much smarter than the HC. Even the Lakers can see through that.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/l...ve-of-targets/

Langdon might be gone

https://t.co/cVVmRCnWFd pic.twitter.com/DYQsMm9R94

— Pelicans Film Room (@PelsFilmRoom) May 13, 2024

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

If we lose James Borrego, the 2025-2026 is a wrap. How many great assistant coaches must pass through the Pelicans organization before they find a decent head coach (Finch, Malone, Borrego)? We have become a farm team even for coaching.

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And we'll have to waste time finding yet another offensive co-ordinator for Willie Green to ignore.

Atlanta still interested in Herb?

More valuable?

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) May 13, 2024

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Atlanta still interested in Herb?

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I'd imagine there are 29 teams ''interested'' in Herb. That question is a reflection of another that was out there gauging interest in Brandon Ingram, it's not meant to imply there's anything in the works.

I understand why the pelicans want to move on from BI and I'm not opposed to it. But I am worried that it will make the team worse. Ingram's value is low right now and most of the trades that I've seen floated don't seem likely to improve the team. I haven't seen anything to make me think the pelicans will be better next year without Brandon Ingram.

What about the possibility of giving BI a close to the max extension and trading him close to the trade deadline? Would he be more valuable? I know we'd run the risk of injury but if he plays well( can't play much worse than he did last yr) could we not get much more from him for a playoff push after the trade deadline? Is it worth taking a shot?

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Originally Posted by djrnno

What about the possibility of giving BI a close to the max extension and trading him close to the trade deadline? Would he be more valuable? I know we'd run the risk of injury but if he plays well( can't play much worse than he did last yr) could we not get much more from him for a playoff push after the trade deadline? Is it worth taking a shot?

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I've only seen one proposal on this forum, and elsewhere that could possibly move the needle, and that's Dejounte Murray. I haven't seen anything else that makes sense to me.

With that being said, a lot of moves take place that aren't anticipated by those who aren't in the know. So maybe there's something on the table that we're unaware of.

I'd personally like to move CJ, with another attractive asset, and pick up Paul George. Him, with a solid point guard, Zion and Ingram would be a really nice squad.

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Originally Posted by djrnno

What about the possibility of giving BI a close to the max extension and trading him close to the trade deadline? Would he be more valuable? I know we'd run the risk of injury but if he plays well( can't play much worse than he did last yr) could we not get much more from him for a playoff push after the trade deadline? Is it worth taking a shot?

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He's not quite untradeable on an almost-max, but he's near it.

If you're paying BI $45m a year instead of $52m a year, that's still awful value for whoever's trying to get him. He'd be more valuable to some teams I guess, less valuable to others, and I honestly think that if we pay him $45m and then keep him, Griff will just convince himself next year when we start 22-14 that we're winning so it's fine and he'll just stand pat. If we're going to make a move I think it needs to be now, or the FO will talk themselves into running it back forever.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

I'd personally like to move CJ, with another attractive asset, and pick up Paul George. Him, with a solid point guard, Zion and Ingram would be a really nice squad.

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How?

You're the one who keeps pointing out that big name free agents won't come to New Orleans, and now you're just proposing we ''pick up Paul George'' as if that's some trivial thing.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

How?

You're the one who keeps pointing out that big name free agents won't come to New Orleans, and now you're just proposing we ''pick up Paul George'' as if that's some trivial thing.

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You didn't read the many posts where I said you're more likely to get a burgeoning star if you have Zion and Ingram, than you are if it's only Zion? I know you have.

https://twitter.com/NBATradeReport/s...68381734301858 they don't really have anything to send..could be fake news as well

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Originally Posted by Nichols

You didn't read the many posts where I said you're more likely to get a burgeoning star if you have Zion and Ingram, than you are if it's only Zion? I know you have.

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If you keep Ingram you have zero cap space. Well, like $14m, before you get a centre. Even if Paul George wanted to come here, we couldn't just take him on unless he was going to sign for the MLE or the vet min, which we both know he won't do.

So how are we making the space?

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Originally Posted by Mount_Zion

https://twitter.com/NBATradeReport/s...68381734301858 they don't really have anything to send..could be fake news as well

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Deni, Kispert, and every pick they have for the next 7 years. Deal.

Trying to figure out why they would want Ingram the year before a loaded draft- quiting the rebuild even though Ingram can still lead them to a bottom 10 record and maybe they get lotto luck like Atlanta

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Originally Posted by djrnno

What about the possibility of giving BI a close to the max extension and trading him close to the trade deadline? Would he be more valuable? I know we'd run the risk of injury but if he plays well( can't play much worse than he did last yr) could we not get much more from him for a playoff push after the trade deadline? Is it worth taking a shot?

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The question is how much is a team willing to trade for him on the deal. Even if he's playing well I don't think the offers will be better than now

Ingram is pretty much well known - lives in the mid range and doesn't take threes. Teams know this

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

He's not quite untradeable on an almost-max, but he's near it.

If you're paying BI $45m a year instead of $52m a year, that's still awful value for whoever's trying to get him. He'd be more valuable to some teams I guess, less valuable to others, and I honestly think that if we pay him $45m and then keep him, Griff will just convince himself next year when we start 22-14 that we're winning so it's fine and he'll just stand pat. If we're going to make a move I think it needs to be now, or the FO will talk themselves into running it back forever.

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Do you think that with him only having 1 yr left on his contract other teams might be worried that he would just not sign an extension and test the FA waters? Wouldn.t he be more attractive a trade if he were locked in @ say 45mil for 4 yrs ? Regardless of what we think Griff will think if we are winning he knows BI @ playoff time disappears. I'm just thinking what's the way to get maximum value for BI

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Originally Posted by Mount_Zion

Trying to figure out why they would want Ingram the year before a loaded draft- quiting the rebuild even though Ingram can still lead them to a bottom 10 record and maybe they get lotto luck like Atlanta

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I regret to inform you that quitting the rebuild does not involve getting Ingram.

Ingram is not a needle moving player. If you put him on Detroit and change nothing else, Detroit is still losing 60 games next year.

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Originally Posted by djrnno

Do you think that with him only having 1 yr left on his contract other teams might be worried that he would just not sign an extension and test the FA waters? Wouldn.t he be more attractive a trade if he were locked in @ say 45mil for 4 yrs ? Regardless of what we think Griff will think if we are winning he knows BI @ playoff time disappears. I'm just thinking what's the way to get maximum value for BI

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Sure, that's why the perfect time to trade him was last offseason, but Griff - as usual - is a day late and a dollar short on things. Now we're left with what we have.

The thing is, if we want to move him now it's easier to move someone making $35m than someone making $45m, and other teams may value the security of a contract with years on it, but they also may want to try before they buy. Especially if they don't actually want him long term - large expirings have some value all of their own, though admittedly less than a player that they actually want.

With regards to the playoff point, I disagree. I think Griff likes BI a lot as a person and has tied a lot of his ego to BI. If he can find an excuse to rationalise keeping him to himself, he will do so. He will dismiss the playoffs as an outlier, and will say ''ah, but he was good against the Suns a few years ago, must have been a fluke''. If we ever make a move, it is going to be now.

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Originally Posted by djrnno

Do you think that with him only having 1 yr left on his contract other teams might be worried that he would just not sign an extension and test the FA waters? Wouldn.t he be more attractive a trade if he were locked in @ say 45mil for 4 yrs ? Regardless of what we think Griff will think if we are winning he knows BI @ playoff time disappears. I'm just thinking what's the way to get maximum value for BI

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This is what I mean by the commentary getting carried away at times.

27.0 points, 6.2 rebounds and 6.2 assists in 6 games in the 2022 playoffs. 47%FG 40% 3PT. His first playoff appearance. OKC is only his second. So how do we get a narrative that he disappears?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

If you keep Ingram you have zero cap space. Well, like $14m, before you get a centre. Even if Paul George wanted to come here, we couldn't just take him on unless he was going to sign for the MLE or the vet min, which we both know he won't do.

So how are we making the space?

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Are you pretending like you haven't seen my answer to these questions already? I know you've seen the answer to the question you previously asked already, that I just answered again. I know you've seen my answer to this question you just asked also. Because I just gave it. You would have to move CJ, and another desirable asset.

Dae

Give me Booker and Kat.

I will give you the world

…

Minus Z and Trey

A line up Booker/Trey/Z/KAT = dynasty

Draft Terrence Shannon at SG.

Put me at PG, because F it. With that roster line up, it don’t matter

Meanwhile NAW is getting eaten alive by Denver tonight. Maybe he is not ready to be a starter yet. Granted it is Denver .

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Are you pretending like you haven't seen my answer to these questions already? I know you've seen the answer to the question you previously asked already, that I just answered again. I know you've seen my answer to this question you just asked also. Because I just gave it. You would have to move CJ, and another desirable asset.

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And take nothing back, apparently. Send $30m out, get nothing back in, to open up max space.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

And take nothing back, apparently. Send $30m out, get nothing back in, to open up max space.

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It's called sign, and trade.. while also including a third team if there's complications in sending out assets your target team isn't interested in. Easy? No.. But doable. All that I've explained you already know, so it's odd to me that you're saying the things you're saying.

Now, if you don't have a desire to do what I've highlighted as an option that's fine. Make that argument, but to act as if it can't be done is strange, because I know that you know it can be done.

I would not trade a bag of chips for Rudy Gobert

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Originally Posted by Nichols

It's called sign, and trade.. while also including a third team if there's complications in sending out assets your target team isn't interested in. Easy? No.. But doable. All that I've explained you already know, so it's odd to me that you're saying the things you're saying.

Now, if you don't have a desire to do what I've highlighted as an option that's fine. Make that argument, but to act as if it can't be done is strange, because I know that you know it can be done.

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I believe the Clippers, as a second apron team, would not be able to acquire players if they sign and trade George. Not sure if getting a third team with cap space allows them to circumvent?

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Originally Posted by ml wave

I believe the Clippers, as a second apron team, would not be able to acquire players if they sign and trade George. Not sure if getting a third team with cap space allows them to circumvent?

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And it would also require PG13 to willingly want to come to New Orleans, which Nichols has repeatedly argued that no free agents would without BI. Which begs the question of who the hell is desperate to play with BI, a mystery that will probably never be answered.

Sounds like a Donovan Mitxhell trade request could be coming. Time to make a deal

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Originally Posted by Nichols

You didn't read the many posts where I said you're more likely to get a burgeoning star if you have Zion and Ingram, than you are if it's only Zion? I know you have.

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Even if PG wanted to come to NOLA (which I do not see happening), where do you squeeze his contract? Are you assuming they can trade CJ without taking back any contracts? Even in a S&T, you have to find a team with a ton of cap space who also wants CJ without sending anything back. Nearly impossible to find both scenarios at once.

Wow . Sounds like he is done in Cleveland. I wonder if this means Lebron on way back to CAVS.

Cavaliers All-Star Donovan Mitchell is expected to miss tonight's potential elimination Game 5 vs. Boston, sources tell me and @joevardon. Mitchell is dealing with a calf strain. pic.twitter.com/mdp5As2FVI

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) May 15, 2024

.@WindhorstESPN says "a number of teams have their offers ready" for Donovan Mitchell ��

Could you see him leaving the Cavs? �� pic.twitter.com/ZvPsTNOgwT

— Get Up (@GetUpESPN) May 15, 2024

Must be nice to play in the East. They need to give Vegas and Seattle their expansion teams so we can move back east.

Celtics opponents this playoffs:

Round 1: No Jimmy Butler for the series
Round 2: No Donovan Mitchell for Game 4 and 5 pic.twitter.com/2fLo3axgm8

— StatMuse (@statmuse) May 15, 2024

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Originally Posted by Mount_Zion

Sounds like a Donovan Mitxhell trade request could be coming. Time to make a deal

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What we would have to give up I doubt most fans would be willing to. Garland seems like a more realistic target from Cleveland.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

And it would also require PG13 to willingly want to come to New Orleans, which Nichols has repeatedly argued that no free agents would without BI. Which begs the question of who the hell is desperate to play with BI, a mystery that will probably never be answered.

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I know you comprehend better than you're letting on. I keep repeating things I've already explained to you. And you deliberately misinterpret my positions to make objections. I said, it would be difficult to get free agents to come to NO. But it is possible to entice one if you have Zion, and Ingram, and a squad that's possibly on the cusp. That becomes increasingly difficult if you only have Zion. Unless (which is possible) you get two buddies to team up and come here. The same way KD, and Kyrie teamed up with the Nets, (Clippers) etc..

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Even if PG wanted to come to NOLA (which I do not see happening), where do you squeeze his contract? Are you assuming they can trade CJ without taking back any contracts? Even in a S&T, you have to find a team with a ton of cap space who also wants CJ without sending anything back. Nearly impossible to find both scenarios at once.

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Yeah, as I said in my initial post.. it would be difficult. Trades that require 3 teams usually are. Just one of many options we're all kicking around on a message board. :)

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

What we would have to give up I doubt most fans would be willing to. Garland seems like a more realistic target from Cleveland.

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Garland would be a major get. I'm of the mind that we have 3 pretty good optionis.

1. Keep Zion, and Ingram. Acquire a solid point and stretch big. Or acquire a fledgling all-star of any position, and fill in the roster where needed.

2. Move Ingram, and pick up a fledgling all-star, and fill in roster as needed.

3. Move Ingram, pick up two role players that just about match his effectiveness. Fill roster as needed.

As I've said before I prefer the first option because it could possibly compete for a title.

Garland
Trae
Dejounte
Karl Anthony Towns [ tax issues]

I think all these guys could be available

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Originally Posted by Mount_Zion

Garland
Trae
Dejounte
Karl Anthony Towns [ tax issues]

I think all these guys could be available

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Hawks will keep one of Trae or Dejounte and given the amount of trade buzz around Young I think they’ve made their choice.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Garland would be a major get. I'm of the mind that we have 3 pretty good optionis.

1. Keep Zion, and Ingram. Acquire a solid point and stretch big. Or acquire a fledgling all-star of any position, and fill in the roster where needed.

2. Move Ingram, and pick up a fledgling all-star, and fill in roster as needed.

3. Move Ingram, pick up two role players that just about match his effectiveness. Fill roster as needed.

As I've said before I prefer the first option because it could possibly compete for a title.

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If we can agree that CJ is almost unmovable with his contract, the only option is to trade BI. Otherwise we would have to be willing to part with key pieces of our future like Trey or Herb.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Yeah, as I said in my initial post.. it would be difficult. Trades that require 3 teams usually are. Just one of many options we're all kicking around on a message board. :)

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Yeah, 3 team trades are tricky as it is, but finding someone to take on $30 million in additional salary is much more difficult.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Yeah, 3 team trades are tricky as it is, but finding someone to take on $30 million in additional salary is much more difficult.

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I agree boss..

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

If we can agree that CJ is almost unmovable with his contract, the only option is to trade BI. Otherwise we would have to be willing to part with key pieces of our future like Trey or Herb.

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Those kind of contracts have to be paired with other desirable assets. We are in agreement.

They might be able to use this year's pick on top of CJ and dump him on a team with cap space

Maybe CJ into Pistons cap space

Or use CJ and 21 for a better use of a player from another team..

Now if you could get Mitchell that would be sweeeeeettttt

Call it in Cavs pic.twitter.com/9EWCIx2cdy

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) May 16, 2024

Shamit is working my trade machine. I love it . Love the Cavs deal. Somebody show this to our front office

Thats the first trade deal that i actually like, so i assume there is no way they would want to do it.

Garland might be off the table. Looks like the Lakers are aggressively pursuing D Mitchell. I don't see the Cavs trading away Garland and Mitchell.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

Garland might be off the table. Looks like the Lakers are aggressively pursuing D Mitchell. I don't see the Cavs trading away Garland and Mitchell.

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They've been rumoured to want only one of the two for a while, and similarly have been associated with wanting to pare down their logjam at C. Mobley's big showing these playoffs combined with Allen's reported locker room issues (his teammates were apparently annoyed he didn't take injections to reduce his pain from injury so he could play? weird), and it may be possible that they're wanting to make a decisive action on their C for the future as well.

Which means one of Garland/Mitchell and Mobley/Allen are on the move.

I think most of us accept Allen is mostly likely there, so it comes down to whether you think Garland or Mitchell. I'm the reverse of you; I actually think this makes Garland more gettable, because not only is Mitchell the better player (and therefore the Cavs are more likely to go all-in on trying to retain him) but retaining him is apparently going to come at the explicit consequence of Garland asking out, according to the recent news. So if the Cavs are looking at both and they know that one is potentially extending and the other is already one foot out of the door in the event of that happening, they might just cut the middle man and move the edge-case and be done with it.

Of course, that's one read on the situation and I'm not saying that is for sure what will happen, but it sounds a lot to me like Mitchell wants that extension and as a result, Garland is on the outs.

I will say, I do find it very funny that they waited for the series to end and then immediately dropped:

- Bickerstaff probably getting fired because Donovan Mitchell hates him
- Jarrett Allen was asked to get injections into his ribcage for pain relief and refused, and everyone hates him for it
- Darius Garland is going to ask for a trade if Mitchell gets extended

Within like, 30 minutes.

They had the clip loaded for that one. Evan Mobley probably standing around in the middle of it like 50 Cent, ''what he say **** me for?''