2021 - 2022 Tank thread/ NBA draft thread/Trade ideas

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't think so.

The whole goal of an NBA franchise is to find a mega-star. A healthy Zion is a megastar. If we can possibly keep Zion with any reasonable expectation of him sticking with the team and being healthy, we absolutely will. He will get offered the max extension, in my view, and I think he'll take it, and he will be on the roster next season. Hopefully he'll be on the roster and actually playing.

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Just remember we’re dealing with a GM who said that Lebron coming back to the Cavs kind of ruined his experience as a GM even though they won a title with him.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Just remember we’re dealing with a GM who said that Lebron coming back to the Cavs kind of ruined his experience as a GM even though they won a title with him.

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This is right. It would not surprise me in the least if Griffin hates dealing with the Zion so much that he'd just want to wash his hands of it. However, at least in the Zion case, this is not a situation of "forced to grow too quick." We have the team and culture in place now that Griffin wanted to build. All he has to do now is sell Zion and his camp that he wants to buy in. If he's not willing to do that work, Griffin may not be the right man for the job.

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Originally Posted by Freyfamilyreuni

Just remember we’re dealing with a GM who said that Lebron coming back to the Cavs kind of ruined his experience as a GM even though they won a title with him.

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His point, which he made very clearly at the time - unique for Griff, who normally obfuscates - was that it was uncomfortable as a GM because having Lebron on your roster means every year is a title year and you can't build anything long term. You're constantly borrowing from Peter to pay Paul and you know that every season Lebron makes you gut everything for a chance at contention is another year of the team's future you're flushing down the drain.

We're not in that same position. Griff may well have issues with Zion - though I have no evidence of this - but it's not because Zion's a star or because Griff doesn't like winning. This situation is nothing like Lebron's second stint in Cleveland.

There is talk about the jazz wanting to get rid of Gobert. I'm not a salary cap nerd but I imagine there is no way we could afford his salary, even shipping out JV + Graham + Hayes

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

He sure wasnt when he played for the Pelicans. If he had been he would probably still be here.

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38% which is still elite, but now hes top 5 in the league

Averaging the same amount made over the last 2 seasons with slightly less volume this year

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Originally Posted by AusPel

38% which is still elite, but now hes top 5 in the league

Averaging the same amount made over the last 2 seasons with slightly less volume this year

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He was .375 and .378 from 3 in his 2 seasons with the Pelicans, which is not elite. For comparison Devonte Graham was .382 and .377 those two seasons.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

38% which is still elite, but now hes top 5 in the league

Averaging the same amount made over the last 2 seasons with slightly less volume this year

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But still can't stay on the court.

Oh my god if we end up with Shaedon Sharpe next to Zion, BI, and CJ. He’s like a 6’5.5 Derrick Rose with a nice jumper. He’s the only player in this class that I think could end up better than a Zion and I think Zion will compete for MVPs?

The Pelicans have so many options at this point. Have to say, I'm feeling pretty optimistic. If they jump into the top of the lottery, my favorite pick for them is Jabari Smith. His shooting and rebounding will help immediately while he acclimates to the physicality of the NBA. If the pick is #4, there are big choices to make. I'm not as high on Jaden Ivey as some-- I see his low assist & steal numbers as minor red flags, and wonder about his defense. Shaedon Sharpe would be a swing for the fences, but that determination has to be made by an insider who has access to his pre-draft workouts. I might be a little higher on Keegan Murray than many, and wouldn't be upset with him at #4. If the pick is #8 or 9, I'd be happy with Mathurin, Eason, Sochan, or Dyson Daniels. Hell, Murray could still be around at #8, which I think would be a very high value pick.

So if Gobert gets moved to Atlanta, any way we can pry away Onyeka Okongwu? Is that even the move?

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

But still can't stay on the court.

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Thank you! Lonzo's injury history is worse than AD's!

If I were Griff, I'd run it back with Zion + the rookie and let Willie figure out the rotations. Make a trade at the deadline if things don't seem to be working out with a certain player. I don't think we can judge Graham until he plays with Zion. I don't think he forgot how to shoot. But if he still sucks, move him at the deadline.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

So if Gobert gets moved to Atlanta, any way we can pry away Onyeka Okongwu? Is that even the move?

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Pretty sure it will have Capela involved.

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Originally Posted by Upper Decker

Thank you! Lonzo's injury history is worse than AD's!

If I were Griff, I'd run it back with Zion + the rookie and let Willie figure out the rotations. Make a trade at the deadline if things don't seem to be working out with a certain player. I don't think we can judge Graham until he plays with Zion. I don't think he forgot how to shoot. But if he still sucks, move him at the deadline.

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Totally agree and I think this happens unless there is an offer that Griff can't refuse.

Adding Zion is like adding a FA.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

So if Gobert gets moved to Atlanta, any way we can pry away Onyeka Okongwu? Is that even the move?

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Nah, with Gobert on a giant contract they'll be eager to keep their young, budget price centre. Capela will be out and, if push comes to shove, they might shift John Collins too given the years of tension between Collins and the FO.

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Totally agree and I think this happens unless there is an offer that Griff can't refuse.

Adding Zion is like adding a FA.

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This 100%

What do y’all think about Dangelo Russell?

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Originally Posted by AtlPelsFan

What do y’all think about Dangelo Russell?

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Did you watch him this season?

Russell is an expiring $30mil+ player. On this team, assuming we keep Zion, at best he's our 4th option. Can hit the 3, but isn't great at it. Can pass, but isn't great at it. But...does he play real defense?

Just not the guy I'd want.

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Originally Posted by AtlPelsFan

What do y’all think about Dangelo Russell?

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Glad he's on another team?

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Originally Posted by AtlPelsFan

What do y’all think about Dangelo Russell?

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Hugely overpaid player who doesn't really do anything at an elite level. I think he's a sharp passer but not a great advantage creator which mitigates his passing impact, he's not a guy I trust as a primary scorer in a lineup, he's not a great spacer/shooter threat, and he's a poor defender. If he's being paid like $15m and he's your fourth best starter, you're probably alright but beyond that, yikes.

I have seen people nationally and locally say that this team needs a point guard. I think that's a mistake. You want your best players to have the ball in their hands. I think a caretaker type as a point guard takes the ball outside of your best players hands. You have enough ballhandling with Zion, BI, CJ, and Herb all being able to bring the ball up. I think with the playmaking leap BI made this year and with what Zion showed as a passer last year, there is enough passing and creation for others, too. Having CJ as the lead guard and Zion and BI as big wing creators is plenty of on-ball creation. I don't know what you get out of adding a player type who would probably be small and not great defensively and would amplify weakness, especially if you're taking Herb off the court.

Edit: I also think seeing Alvarado in the fourth quarter of games against the Suns was huge in terms of evaluating that as a need for this team. He was able to get into the lane and get defenses into rotation, hit timely shots, organized the offense and pushed the pace in addition to changing games defensively and with hustle. I think his most underrated quality is he hardly ever turns the ball over. I don't think he is a starting point guard just related to size and the makeup of this roster, but he is a guy who can be impactful at the end of games and do the things you would want a point guard on this team to do. And it wasn't a one-off, we saw him do similar things in high pressure games against good teams. The first time I really thought he could be an important player was when he was our best player in CJ's first game against Miami. He has exceeded expectations consistently every time he has gotten a chance. Give him some more minutes and have him prove what he can or can't do before you add another guard who may not be as good as him.

Arguably, the loss in game six against the Suns was partially due to a lack of a point guard (no offense to CM). I agree that you can get by during the regular season with 'point by committee', but you can't get away with it in the post-season.

See: Curry, Morant, Luka, Paul, and Jrue. There is nobody on our roster who can limit/offset these guys.

I love Jose' (even said he was a steal when we signed him), but to suggest that there are no limitations due to his size is disingenuous.

I stand by my belief: if his head is straight, Ben Simmons would take this team to the next level. He's a 50%+ shooter who is simply satisfied dropping dimes all night long (our team is loaded with closers) and who will blanket any point guard in the league. It would almost not be fair when he and Herb were dueling it out with any other guard duo in the league.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

He's a 50%+ shooter

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I think there are plusses to Simmons (as well as minuses...plenty of minuses) but to say he's a 50% shooter and just leave it at that, like that's all there is to his shooting is...well, do you think nobody here is aware of his shooting issues? Or, are you just not aware of his shooting issues? Because his shooting cannot be described by mere %s.

As for getting Simmons on the Pels, we'd have to trade for him and I don't know why we'd do so considering 1) it's unclear if he's actually interested in playing basketball and B) if he's traded to us that means this immensely gifted player has been traded twice in short order primarily due to #1 and 3) the risk that he'd be toxic to the culture we've worked so hard to create. Not to mention the finances/tax situation...if there was a time to trade for Simmons, it was before the CJ trade. We're not in a position to add another $30+MM salary to our cap.

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Originally Posted by ml wave

I think there are plusses to Simmons (as well as minuses...plenty of minuses) but to say he's a 50% shooter and just leave it at that, like that's all there is to his shooting is...well, do you think nobody here is aware of his shooting issues? Or, are you just not aware of his shooting issues? Because his shooting cannot be described by mere %s.

As for getting Simmons on the Pels, we'd have to trade for him and I don't know why we'd do so considering 1) it's unclear if he's actually interested in playing basketball and B) if he's traded to us that means this immensely gifted player has been traded twice in short order primarily due to #1 and 3) the risk that he'd be toxic to the culture we've worked so hard to create. Not to mention the finances/tax situation...if there was a time to trade for Simmons, it was before the CJ trade. We're not in a position to add another $30+MM salary to our cap.

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I said it before and I'll say it again...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y37q7kvx

Would hate to lose LNJ, but adding a three time All Star and two time NBA All Defensive selection who is 25/26 years old is well worth the gamble.......PROVIDING HIS HEAD IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE!!!

But even if Simmons isn't the ticket (and he may not be), this team needs someone who can drive this 'Offensive Lamborghini', when the going gets tough. Trying to run this thing on a 'Point Guard by Committee' basis will never get us to the Promised Land. We need a complementary Point Guard (Lead Guard) desperately. Ask Giannis or Devin.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

I said it before and I'll say it again...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y37q7kvx

Would hate to lose LNJ, but adding a three time All Star and two time NBA All Defensive selection who is 25/26 years old is well worth the gamble.......PROVIDING HIS HEAD IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE!!!

But even if Simmons isn't the ticket (and he may not be), this team needs someone who can drive this 'Offensive Lamborghini', when the going gets tough. Trying to run this thing on a 'Point Guard by Committee' basis will never get us to the Promised Land. We need a complementary Point Guard (Lead Guard) desperately. Ask Giannis or Devin.

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I'm not sure why Brooklyn would even do that trade unless we added picks. But the info below certainly doesn't help his value lolz:

Brooklyn Nets say Ben Simmons will undergo surgery on his back on Thursday.

— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) May 4, 2022

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Originally Posted by As I See It

I said it before and I'll say it again...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y37q7kvx

Would hate to lose LNJ, but adding a three time All Star and two time NBA All Defensive selection who is 25/26 years old is well worth the gamble.......PROVIDING HIS HEAD IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE!!!

But even if Simmons isn't the ticket (and he may not be), this team needs someone who can drive this 'Offensive Lamborghini', when the going gets tough. Trying to run this thing on a 'Point Guard by Committee' basis will never get us to the Promised Land. We need a complementary Point Guard (Lead Guard) desperately. Ask Giannis or Devin.

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Even if his head was in the right place, it isn't the biggest problem.

I will list 3 more.

1. He is getting paid way too much
2. He doesn't want to come to NOLA
3. Most importantly he would not fit the culture this team is building.

Let it go.....you "see it" wrong.

No such thang as paying to much to win a championship especially for a franchise that never been to a championship; he might we have a players coach obviously thought the city was cool if he went to LSU cause LSU is not known for basketball, 3rd he won’t fit the culture let’s see our best players are quiet dudes who stay to they self just wanna play ball and don’t want to hear criticism seem like he fit to me top draft picks who’ve been touted as bust/failures Been giving up on yeah I think he kinda does fit . On top of that he makes us a top 5 defense increases our assist rate and although he’s not a shoot the number one thing people hated about lonzo was his 6’6 behind was scared to attack the paint not a problem with Simmons we have other people to take shots he also can spare Zion some wear and Tear

There is no way you trade for Simmons and not count on Klutch, his health (mental/physical), or heart, not seeing that marriage end like a dumpster fire.

All I’m saying is people shouldn’t act like if we could trade graham and the 8th pick for Simmons with some lunch Zion healthy and buying in and Ben doing the same we don’t instantly become tittle contenders Chris Paul doesn’t go perfect book doesn’t drop 31 in a half instead of Jax switching its Ben I get he’s been a headcase but can’t deny the potential being there and our championship chances shoot through the roof small ball Zion Ben Ingram herb and jax or lance or one big in Val or no big and put cj in for spacing

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

No such thang as paying to much to win a championship especially for a franchise that never been to a championship; he might we have a players coach obviously thought the city was cool if he went to LSU cause LSU is not known for basketball, 3rd he won’t fit the culture let’s see our best players are quiet dudes who stay to they self just wanna play ball and don’t want to hear criticism seem like he fit to me top draft picks who’ve been touted as bust/failures Been giving up on yeah I think he kinda does fit . On top of that he makes us a top 5 defense increases our assist rate and although he’s not a shoot the number one thing people hated about lonzo was his 6’6 behind was scared to attack the paint not a problem with Simmons we have other people to take shots he also can spare Zion some wear and Tear

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It's been well documented that he had no interest in being at LSU (which isn't even in New Orleans anyway).

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

All I’m saying is people shouldn’t act like if we could trade graham and the 8th pick for Simmons with some lunch Zion healthy and buying in and Ben doing the same we don’t instantly become tittle contenders Chris Paul doesn’t go perfect book doesn’t drop 31 in a half instead of Jax switching its Ben I get he’s been a headcase but can’t deny the potential being there and our championship chances shoot through the roof small ball Zion Ben Ingram herb and jax or lance or one big in Val or no big and put cj in for spacing

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He makes too much money to trade Graham for him (and it takes two to trade...why would Brooklyn do that, you think KD and Kyrie have any interest in some draft pick?). And saying we should trade for him if he's healthy and buying in...he's got to be the least likely player in the entire NBA to be healthy and buying in, so why on earth would you even think about trading for him? That's like saying we should trade for Chris Paul if he was 25...like sure, that'd be great but it's not really a possibility.

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Originally Posted by ml wave

...he's got to be the least likely player in the entire NBA to be healthy and buying in, so why on earth would you even think about trading for him?

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Are you talking about Zion Williamson? Or perhaps, Anthony Davis?

Yeah but I’m sure LSU students is coming from Baton Rouge to New Orleans all the time I’m from Algiers can we not act like Baton Rouge is 12 hours away ;

They may you don’t know how Kevin and kyrie think neither do i but I won’t act like I know my opinions are facts and who says we can’t get them to throw us some money for taking one ‘problem off their hands’ plus we definitely have player who can be thrown in with graham temple snell it may not be possible but the folks who acting like him bought in plus Zion couldn’t turn us into a dynasty is lying to themselves maybe a pipe dream but I’m throwing stuff out there just like David griffin will do

How did he have no interest but went there I could’ve sworn you pick your college not the opposite lol

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

How did he have no interest but went there I could’ve sworn you pick your college not the opposite lol

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When you are the #1 overall recruit, likely to become the #1 overall pick in the draft, garnering over $25 million guaranteed, you don't "pick" your college. Your parents do.

lol that’s more of an opinion than a fact my opinion was more fact based college is recruiting not schools just picking you and I’m sure Duke nc could’ve offered his parents just as much if not more

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

How did he have no interest but went there I could?ve sworn you pick your college not the opposite lol

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He was from Austraila. He had an uncle or friend of the family who was an assistant coachat LSU. He wasn't interested in playing college ball at all. I don't think the place mattered. I don't want him, though. He's talented, but not a team guy at all.

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Originally Posted by jcollins9

He was from Austraila. He had an uncle or friend of the family who was an assistant coachat LSU. He wasn't interested in playing college ball at all. I don't think the place mattered. I don't want him, though. He's talented, but not a team guy at all.

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His godfather was hired as an assistant for the 1 year(*) Ben was there.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Are you talking about Zion Williamson? Or perhaps, Anthony Davis?

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No, but I factored them both in to the equation (Kyrie as well) and still came up with the conclusion that Simmons is the least likely. That's how bad it is!

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

How did he have no interest but went there I could’ve sworn you pick your college not the opposite lol

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It doesn't seem like you're at all familiar with Ben Simmons, you might want to do some minimal research first.

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

They may you don’t know how Kevin and kyrie think neither do i but I won’t act like I know my opinions are facts and who says we can’t get them to throw us some money for taking one ‘problem off their hands’ plus we definitely have player who can be thrown in with graham temple snell it may not be possible but the folks who acting like him bought in plus Zion couldn’t turn us into a dynasty is lying to themselves maybe a pipe dream but I’m throwing stuff out there just like David griffin will do

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No, you do know that they're not interested in a draft pick. And somehow I don't see Temple or Snell moving the needle lol.

I don’t think I need to research unless you got statements from Ben Simmons saying my mom and daddy picked my school

They weren’t added for moving the needle they were added for players we don’t want , I don’t know that we might get a top 3 pick which maybe something Kevin and kyrie and Steve maybe interested in and something we may not want already having two young guys to add into the fold already with Zion and Kira

Also we don’t have to believe the same thing that’s fine I’m sure I was one of the only ones that gave us a shot against Phoenix I don’t need y’all to agree I’m sure David griffin is looking to improve this team some more

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

They weren’t added for moving the needle they were added for players we don’t want , I don’t know that we might get a top 3 pick which maybe something Kevin and kyrie and Steve maybe interested in and something we may not want already having two young guys to add into the fold already with Zion and Kira

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Oh, players we don't want! How could Brooklyn turn that down? If we get a top 3 pick, why on earth would we trade it for someone coming off back surgery who may not even be interested in playing basketball? If we had a $30MM trade exception and could add Simmons without trading any players or first round picks, I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested, let alone trading away a top 3 pick for him.

Clearly we are not going to see eye to eye on Simmons' value as an asset/player, but I'm curious as to how you see him fitting into our roster. He wouldn't be coming off the bench, so who are you replacing in the starting lineup, Herb? Is Simmons even that much of an upgrade? For the regular season, sure, he'd help, but it's at best an open question whether his free throw shooting and outright refusal to shoot would outweigh his defensive positives in the playoffs. And if he can't help in the playoffs, what is the point of paying him $30MM/yr, putting us into the luxury tax, and cutting off Herb's minutes?

You take out Hayes and put in ben and he’s definitely an upgrade being the fact he could be a lead guard in a sense of setting up our offense in half court and he also can great his on offense simply attacking the rack not like defense can focus on him with Zion Brandon and cj on the court and if Zion could play with adams he can play with Zion also who would be better to sub Zion for a breather when he need rest then a 6’10 playmaker that attacks the rack I’d take him over lonzo and plenty of our ppl on here was okay with paying him 20ms to stand on the 3point line and chuck while never attacking a clean lane ; I understand all the personality questions and things of that sort but to act like skill wise he wouldn’t improve us that’s denial defensive player of the year candidate in and out can get you 10 assist easy and with our coach Vinson and supporting young team and staff who would be a better place to revive his stardom I mean cj ain’t young and eventually will come off the books soooo if David believes he can be a piece to take is to dynasty level ima trade and do what I need to do

Is there anybody on our roster that can lay claim to this resume'....

3x NBA All-Star (2019–2021)
All-NBA Third Team (2020)
2x NBA All-Defensive First Team (2020, 2021)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2018)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2018)
NBA steals leader (2020)

...and the guy is just 25/26 years old and can fill two positions of need on this team: Point Guard and Power Forward.

It's amusing how many of you see him as trash when he's a 15.9/8.1/7.7 on 56% shooting. Tell me, who in the league would have a fourth or fifth option who sports these kinds of numbers?

“ take out Hayes and put in ben” Uh.. news flash. Zion is replacing Hayes in the starting lineup so who you going to replace now. It literally makes me nauseous that some people would want to bring that overpaid, non-shooting cancer into the Pels locker room.

And no LSU fans would go to the games just to see Simmons play. Most LSU fans, including me, can’t stand him. He single handily ruined our bb program for years.

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Originally Posted by TennMan23

And no LSU fans would go to the games just to see Simmons play. Most LSU fans, including me, can’t stand him. He single handily ruined our bb program for years.

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FLASH: That distinction goes to Will Wade. How many transfers is that for LSU this offseason?