February 21st - New Orleans Pelicans VS Boston Celtics - 12-17

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

and I would be remiss if I didn't mention Ingram playing much more within himself in the second half, on top of great D. I think it's fair to say he was just as crucial to this W as Zion

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You think?

Young Pels really grew up in this one. Even with the massive Ingram -25 IQ play that took away from an otherwise gritty, "top top tier" SF game from him.

And I wish the team would listen to me more often. I was hoping Josh Hart would have been locked up this past offseason. Thats not to say I think he is a top "6th man", which this team still needs badly.

But Hart is without a doubt a player you have to have on your team solidly in the rotation.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Young Pels really grew up in this one. Even with the massive Ingram -25 IQ play that took away from an otherwise gritty, "top top tier" SF game from him.

And I wish the team would listen to me more often. I was hoping Josh Hart would have been locked up this past offseason. Thats not to say I think he is a top "6th man", which this team still needs badly.

But Hart is without a doubt a player you have to have on your team solidly in the rotation.

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If I had to guess, I'd say Hart is a price thing. They probably offered him some amount and he thought he could outplay that contract. We'll see what happens in the offseason probably.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

You think?

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what do you want from me, man?

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

Beautiful, beautiful W. So proud of these guys top to bottom - sans Bledsoe. The effort we played with from the second half onward should be preached in every film session onward.

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Bledsoe just doesn't fit

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Young Pels really grew up in this one. Even with the massive Ingram -25 IQ play that took away from an otherwise gritty, "top top tier" SF game from him.

And I wish the team would listen to me more often. I was hoping Josh Hart would have been locked up this past offseason. Thats not to say I think he is a top "6th man", which this team still needs badly.

But Hart is without a doubt a player you have to have on your team solidly in the rotation.

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imo hart and adams are the alphas on the team...

How misleading is this headline?

https://sports.yahoo.com/jayson-tatu...000500525.html

tomorrow the whole damn team should watch video of the second half when the defense lead the comeback...stan need to point out see how good things happen when we play good swarming defense....

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

what do you want from me, man?

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A reaction.

Put him on mute.

That was a great team win, hopefully the Pels can build on this victory.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

A reaction.

Put him on mute.

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You're like that sophomore girl in high school who gives her "Bestie" advice she wouldn't take herself. I know your kind, Dae-loris!!!

LMAO!!!

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Originally Posted by Funcrusher

and I would be remiss if I didn't mention Ingram playing much more within himself in the second half, on top of great D. I think it's fair to say he was just as crucial to this W as Zion

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Yup. Far fewer infuriating isos. He kept the ball and himself moving and wasn't a complete matador on D. Now we just have to hope all this carries over.

Point Zion in the 4th is basically the future.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

Point Zion in the 4th is basically the future.

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Point Zion about 60% of the time is the future

I remembered one of the big complaints against Gent was that he was never willing to give the stars more than 30-33 min no matter the situation. Repeatedly sitting guys to start OT and killing their flow.

Nice to see the results of letting our stars stay out there and go earn the win. Hasn't been perfect with Stan this season, but it felt good to have a common sense personnel decision (meh on Meli staying out there but he had some good stops on D at least).

Nice to see Zion get 10 rebounds. That should be the norm or close to it.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Nice to see Zion get 10 rebounds. That should be the norm or close to it.

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Does it really matter how many he gets if as a team we're already #1 in the league in offensive rebounds and #5 overall in total rebounds? I'd think there's a reason why they're not pushing him to get more. It's kind of annoying to see people in the media so critical of him about his lack of rebounding when it's just not a priority at this time IMO.

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Originally Posted by donato

Does it really matter how many he gets if as a team we're already #1 in the league in offensive rebounds and #5 overall in total rebounds? I'd think there's a reason why they're not pushing him to get more. It's kind of annoying to see people in the media so critical of him about his lack of rebounding when it's just not a priority at this time IMO.

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Not really. Obviously it would be nice for his numbers if he rebounded more but far.more important than any individuals rebounding numbers is the teams and if what we're doing wins us rebounding battles I don't much care who actually picks them up.

Edit: Just for reference, Zion is averaging 7.4 rebounds per 36 at the moment. Lebron, aged 20, averaged 6.2 rebounds per 36, despite being about 3 inches taller and having a slightly longer wingspan. Of course we'd like to see Zion's boards increase with time, but right now they're fine imo

Zion averaging: 25.7/6.8/3.1 on 61.5/35.2/71.7 splits at this point.

It's fine, to me :hihi:

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Originally Posted by Speakthetruth

Bledsoe just doesn't fit

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I actually wouldn’t mind trying a Bledsoe/Redick veteran back court off the bench, with NAW running as secondary ball handler/wing defender. Think the vets might pair ok together, and operate on inexperienced opponents.

Great win! I like Zion having the ball as a point forward He looked great and was making some nice passes off the dribble. Sign of things to come from him.

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Originally Posted by Wecandothis

Great win! I like Zion having the ball as a point forward He looked great and was making some nice passes off the dribble. Sign of things to come from him.

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Got this article in my mail this morning about point zion > https://slate.com/culture/2021/02/zi...its-scary.html

...Point Zion...I like it.

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Originally Posted by donato

Does it really matter how many he gets if as a team we're already #1 in the league in offensive rebounds and #5 overall in total rebounds? I'd think there's a reason why they're not pushing him to get more. It's kind of annoying to see people in the media so critical of him about his lack of rebounding when it's just not a priority at this time IMO.

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More rebounds mean more misses n the offensive end, stats are misleading.

God, if we could trade every asset we have from now until 2029 for Tatum (minus Zion), we'd be looking at a dynasty

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Originally Posted by donato

Does it really matter how many he gets if as a team we're already #1 in the league in offensive rebounds and #5 overall in total rebounds? I'd think there's a reason why they're not pushing him to get more. It's kind of annoying to see people in the media so critical of him about his lack of rebounding when it's just not a priority at this time IMO.

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Yes it matters when Steven is not in the game, and it also means the ball is already in Zion's hands to take it up the floor.

It's not about overall team rebounds. It's about what it means for getting into sets and it also means he's near the basket to contest shots.

I don't care what angle media uses, but it absolutely helps this team when Zion is getting rebounds, especially on the defensive end. BI for that matter as well.

Getting rebounds is never NOT a priority for any individual player.

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

Got this article in my mail this morning about point zion > https://slate.com/culture/2021/02/zi...its-scary.html

...Point Zion...I like it.

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Nice read. I can see Zion developing even more as a playmaker in the future. Even Julius Randle has become a pretty good playmaker so its really no telling how good Zion could develop that part of his game.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Yes it matters when Steven is not in the game, and it also means the ball is already in Zion's hands to take it up the floor.

It's not about overall team rebounds. It's about what it means for getting into sets and it also means he's near the basket to contest shots.

I don't care what angle media uses, but it absolutely helps this team when Zion is getting rebounds, especially on the defensive end. BI for that matter as well.

Getting rebounds is never NOT a priority for any individual player.

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Well, I think it was pretty clear when Steven and H.G. weren't in the game he was tasked with getting more rebounds and he did that. Cause -> effect. But there's no reason for him to prioritize "10 rebounds as the norm" when Adams plays significant minutes.

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Originally Posted by donato

Well, I think it was pretty clear when Steven and H.G. weren't in the game he was tasked with getting more rebounds and he did that. Cause -> effect. But there's no reason for him to prioritize "10 rebounds as the norm" when Adams plays significant minutes.

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He needs to prioritize rebounding as every Pelican should. That doesnt change when Adams or Hernangomez plays.

I much rather Zion or BI get that rebound and start the offense immediately to get the defense off balance. Rather than Adams get it and wait for somebody. Or Lonzo get it and run up the floor like a headless chicken. Or throw a full court lob that finally shatters Zion's ACL. Or Hart get it and go 1 on 4.

The bottom line is there is no logical argument against Zion getting or prioritizing more rebounds on either end. What are we doing? tf

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Originally Posted by luckyman

He needs to prioritize rebounding as every Pelican should. That doesnt change when Adams or Hernangomez plays.

I much rather Zion or BI get that rebound and start the offense immediately to get the defense off balance. Rather than Adams get it and wait for somebody. Or Lonzo get it and run up the floor like a headless chicken. Or throw a full court lob that finally shatters Zion's ACL. Or Hart get it and go 1 on 4.

The bottom line is there is no logical argument against Zion getting or prioritizing more rebounds on either end. What are we doing? tf

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Not sure the coaches agree. If they are comfortable with Adams getting the rebound, the others could get down court. Just because Adams gets the rebound does not mean he will be initiating the offense.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Not sure the coaches agree. If they are comfortable with Adams getting the rebound, the others could get down court. Just because Adams gets the rebound does not mean he will be initiating the offense.

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Originally Posted by luckyman
Rather than Adams get it and wait for somebody.

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Which part of that says Adams initiates? I didnt say its bad if Adams rebounds. I said I'd rather Zion or BI specifically so they can immediately start the offense. Like how Dallas does with Luka. The Lakers with Lebron. Boston with Tatum. Clippers with Kawhi. The ball in Zion's/BI's handss early and often is a good thing.

Am I in the Pr twilight zone again?

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Which part of that says Adams initiates? I didnt say its bad if Adams rebounds. I said I'd rather Zion or BI specifically so they can immediately start the offense. Like how Dallas does with Luka. The Lakers with Lebron. Boston with Tatum. Clippers with Kawhi. The ball in Zion's/BI's handss early and often is a good thing.

Am I in the Pr twilight zone again?

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I think Zion will start to do this more often. BI probably a little less since he isn’t as close to the rim. I like your thinking because it instantly speeds up the offensive sets when the ball handler can start the possession with the ball. I have noticed that BI scores a large amount when he is the rebounder. A lot of times it’s resulted in a layup or foul. But, I don’t think he will turn into Josh Hart mentally where he attacks the boards every possession.

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

I think Zion will start to do this more often. BI probably a little less since he isn’t as close to the rim. I like your thinking because it instantly speeds up the offensive sets when the ball handler can start the possession with the ball. I have noticed that BI scores a large amount when he is the rebounder. A lot of times it’s resulted in a layup or foul. But, I don’t think he will turn into Josh Hart mentally where he attacks the boards every possession.

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THANK YOU. Jeezus Christ this place here. :hihi:

It's not my thinking. Lots of teams want their star playmakers doing that. It immediately puts the defense on edge. Add Ben Simmons for the 76ers as another one.

To read the 'experts' here. you would think that Brandon Ingram was little more than a wallflower in the amazing comeback yesterday. It's sad (but not surprising) when you have to rely on the national folks to 'tell it like it is'. But se' la vie.

https://www.dailysabah.com/sports/ba...owers-pelicans

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/ba...eason-high-33/

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Originally Posted by luckyman

Which part of that says Adams initiates? I didnt say its bad if Adams rebounds. I said I'd rather Zion or BI specifically so they can immediately start the offense. Like how Dallas does with Luka. The Lakers with Lebron. Boston with Tatum. Clippers with Kawhi. The ball in Zion's/BI's handss early and often is a good thing.

Am I in the Pr twilight zone again?

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In a perfect world, certainly. The difference is that those teams do not have a 5 whose main contribution is to rebound. Adams is going to "steal" rebounds from others as that is his focus.

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Originally Posted by luckyman

He needs to prioritize rebounding as every Pelican should. That doesnt change when Adams or Hernangomez plays.

I much rather Zion or BI get that rebound and start the offense immediately to get the defense off balance. Rather than Adams get it and wait for somebody. Or Lonzo get it and run up the floor like a headless chicken. Or throw a full court lob that finally shatters Zion's ACL. Or Hart get it and go 1 on 4.

The bottom line is there is no logical argument against Zion getting or prioritizing more rebounds on either end. What are we doing? tf

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Teams are intentionally pulling Zion away from the basket defensively because he was so bad at closing out earlier in the season. That is the main reason for his drop in rebounding. He?s almost always on the floor with another big, which means that he?s likely guarding a shooter. His rebounding rate will rise as his defensive IQ improves, putting himself in better position to get those boards.

Our guards are also tremendous rebounders. Another explanation for Zion?s lower numbers. It?s not really an issue in my opinion.

I?d like to see him attack the offensive glass even more, but you can tell Stan is prioritizing getting back defensively so the team can learn how to play a set defense and that?s fine for now. I think as this team grows up defensively in the coming years, we?ll see more of an emphasis on offensive rebounding.

Less than five defensive rebounds a game from a power forward who leaps out of the building and is built like Everest is a head scratcher. Defense and rebounding are 'want to' skills. Either you do, or you don't. (See Charles Barkley, Dennis Rodman, Paul Silas, or Josh Hart....for that matter)

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Less than five defensive rebounds a game from a power forward who leaps out of the building and is built like Everest is a head scratcher. Defense and rebounding are 'want to' skills. Either you do, or you don't. (See Charles Barkley, Dennis Rodman, Paul Silas, or Josh Hart....for that matter)

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lol isn’t a head scratcher at all, Adam’s and heart are such great rebounders Zion is constantly leaking out for the fast break. Could Zion crash down and stay down for boards? Absolutely, could he average 10 a game? Absolutely, what you don’t understand is Zion isn’t a typica power forward. Zion can rebound well, that’s not what SVG is asking of him. Posts like this are why I rarely come on here anymore

You can crash the glass or be ready for a fast break. Either defending or on offense.

Rarely can teams do both and if they do, someone is not getting rebounds.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

lol isn’t a head scratcher at all, Adam’s and heart are such great rebounders Zion is constantly leaking out for the fast break. Could Zion crash down and stay down for boards? Absolutely, could he average 10 a game? Absolutely, what you don’t understand is Zion isn’t a typica power forward. Zion can rebound well, that’s not what SVG is asking of him. Posts like this are why I rarely come on here anymore

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Less than five in almost 33 minutes per game.

Wow some Celtics fans are calling for Brad Stevens to be fired after last night.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

Less than five in almost 33 minutes per game.

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Cool good job, what’s your point? I think you’re correlating his lack of rebound numbers with his rebounding ability. Yes his rebound numbers are not high, but it’s not because he isn’t a good rebounder lol.

The first figure is defensive rebounds per game; the second - total rebounds per game. The Pelican numbers are revealing.

Giannis: 10.1; 11.9
Lebron James: 7.6; 8.2
Luka: 7.4; 8.6
Kevin Durant: 6.9; 7.3
Jason Tatum: 6.5: 7.1

PELICANS

Josh Hart: 6.6; 7.6
Brandon: 4.7; 5.3
Steven Adams; 4.6; 8.9
Zion: 4.4; 6.8

IS ADAMS REALLY HOGGING THE DEFENSIVE BOARDS?

The Pels are fourth in defensive rebound rate, first in offensive rebound rate, and second in total rebound rate. Individual stats are meaningless except for getting accolades.

Zion is clearly doing his job on the glass, whether or not that satisfies you or Charles Barkley

I'm still trying to figure out what's a better clutch moment for Zion.

The 8 second go-ahead layup and One or the Assist to Ingram 3 dagger in OT.

Classic plays in a young career.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I'm still trying to figure out what's a better clutch moment for Zion.

The 8 second go-ahead layup and One or the Assist to Ingram 3 dagger in OT.

Classic plays in a young career.

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Yep, Ingram sure came up big when it counted.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I'm still trying to figure out what's a better clutch moment for Zion.

The 8 second go-ahead layup and One or the Assist to Ingram 3 dagger in OT.

Classic plays in a young career.

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I like the assist more. Not only did he show he trusts his teammates, but he threw the perfect pass at the perfect time. The play is not defendable. The Pels should get a good look out of that every time.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

The first figure is defensive rebounds per game; the second - total rebounds per game. The Pelican numbers are revealing.

Giannis: 10.1; 11.9
Lebron James: 7.6; 8.2
Luka: 7.4; 8.6
Kevin Durant: 6.9; 7.3
Jason Tatum: 6.5: 7.1

PELICANS

Josh Hart: 6.6; 7.6
Brandon: 4.7; 5.3
Steven Adams; 4.6; 8.9
Zion: 4.4; 6.8

IS ADAMS REALLY HOGGING THE DEFENSIVE BOARDS?

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What does it reveal? That we rebound as a team? If they are 2nd in total rebound rate and 4th in defensive rebound rate, what is the concern?

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

What does it reveal? That we rebound as a team? If they are 2nd in total rebound rate and 4th in defensive rebound rate, what is the concern?

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As it says, it refutes the myth that Adams is the defensive rebounder others claim he is. Did you not see the "There's no reason for him (Williamson) to prioritize "ten rebounds as the norm" when Adams plays significant minutes" comment?

The number...all the numbers...speak for themselves.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

The Pels are fourth in defensive rebound rate, first in offensive rebound rate, and second in total rebound rate. Individual stats are meaningless except for getting accolades.

Zion is clearly doing his job on the glass, whether or not that satisfies you or Charles Barkley

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There was an interesting episode of the "Thinking Basketball" podcast that really supports this line of thinking about rebounds. It is from a while ago, but I will see if I can find it.

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Originally Posted by As I See It

As it says, it refutes the myth that Adams is the defensive rebounder others claim he is. Did you not see the "There's no reason for him (Williamson) to prioritize "ten rebounds as the norm" when Adams plays significant minutes" comment?

The number...all the numbers...speak for themselves.

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The only number that matters is the team number. If we're #1 and #4 respectively, then what does it matter? I think Pelafanatic summed things up really well in post #335.

Also, aren't you the guy that said Covid-19 was going away after Election Day?