Terrible trade for Jrue! Ingram red flag medical is very concerning.
Printable View
The knicks deal could easily get it done but i don’t like the knicks deal that much.
that's not even an exaggeration either like even the talking heads before they knew ad wanted out they were talking so much crap about Ingram and ball and now all of a sudden they're amazing players? it's like some of these fans all they see is that they were drafted in the lottery so they must be amazing.
Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk
It's funny, the Lakers have had 3 #2 picks in the last 5 years, so you'd think they'd have a bunch of great young talent to trade.
In reality,#2 is statistically less likely to produce stars than #1, or #3.
For comparison, looking back over the last 19 years (since 2000), look at these names.
#1 overall has produced: Yao Ming, Lebron James, Dwight Howard, D. Rose, Blake Griffin, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis, KAT, Ben Simmons
#3 has produced: Pau Gasol, Carmelo Anthony, Deron Williams, Al Horford, James Harden, Bradley Beal, Joel Embiid, Luka Doncic.
#2 has produced: Tyson Chandler, Lamarcus Aldridge, KD, Victor Oladipo, and D'angelo Russell.
No offense to the #2 pick, but it generally punches well below it's weight. It's also produced Darko Milicic, Stromile Swift, Marvin Williams, Michael Beasley, Hasheem Thabeet, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams, MKG, and now Ingram and Ball. If you're going to get a bust in the top 3, it's probably with the #2 pick. It's like a curse or something.
"In Griff we Trust"
The more I look at it, the Knicks trade looks good. DSJ is solid, Mitchell Robinson next to Zion could be great on defense, and Knox/Trier would be solid on the bench. Not to mention the prospect of getting his best friend and college teammate with him would be great. Then the option to have some extra draft picks for the next few years is the icing on the cake.
The key to the Knicks deal will be if Knox reaches his potential. If he can become a top notch two way player the deal will be wonderful. If he never reaches his potential the whole deal might be regrettable
I have zero doubt that RJ Barrett will be a stud. I think his floor is Andrew Wiggins and his ceiling is an all star. Dennis Smith Jr isn’t the greatest point guard, but he has a chance to be above average maybe top 15. Mitchell Robinson looks to be a damn good young 7 footer now that I’ve did my research. Trier would be a nice backup 2 guard if he we get him too.
It would be so sick if we could move Jrue and a 1st or 2 from the Knicks deal to get Ja Morant as well. That would be unreal that a team got the first 3 picks of a draft that most say has 3 potential stars.
It’s still not ideal to give up a top 5 franchise changing type player for those 5 players and some 1st round picks. I still think the Lakers deal is better overall cause Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, & Hunter will be really good players in this league for a long time. I think Ingram is gonna be fine, but his body makeup will always be at risk for injury. Kuzma has shown that he can play in this league at a high level. I think Ball needs to get out of LA and distance himself from LaVar. I think once that happens and he can have fun playing ball again he will be a top 10 point guard in this league. De’Andre Hunter has a chance to be an elite two way player that will be up for defensive player of the year awards. If his shot and dribble drive game improve he can be a poor mans Kawhi.
But RJ Barrett may have the best shot at stardom over all of them. I think he will be up their with DeRozan for sure and hopefully even better if we get him. Like I started this post, Knox is the key. If he could get his game to where Andrew Wiggins is than that would be outstanding. I just want him to be an elite defender that get transition baskets by the boat load. If he develops a good jumper than that’s just the cherry on top. I think Smith & Robinson will just be average starters, but that’s not bad at all.
Hopefully we get like 4-5 first round picks as well and we make the best of them. Turn some into players in the league and others into rookies to develop
There isn’t a chance of Knox becoming a good two way player. He is one of the worst defenders in basketball (which, okay, many rookies are!) by any metric. He combines bad physical tools on that end, bad instincts/cluelessness, and really poor effort into being the worst defensive forward in basketball. Unlike Wiggins, who you mentioned, he doesn’t have either the lateral quickness to stay in front of wings (gets blown by a lot) and he is functionally weak even at the 3. He does not move his feet quickly and shows no interest or ability to get up to or contest shots off ball. Like Wiggins, he gives up backdoor cuts, doesn’t make effort plays, is lackadaisical about being in a stance, closes out badly, and is lost playing in a defensive concept. He was also routinely criticized for these issues at lower levels of basketball as well. If he could become a guy who doesn’t kill you defensively and is merely bad, maybe he can figure it out enough on offense to stay on the floor and give you some offense to overall be a neutral or slightly positive overall player. Despite being historically inefficient on offense last year, he does have some offensive skills relative to his size that are intriguing.
But I’m out on this guy. He is a long-two chucker who has shown no ability or inclination to pass or create for others and who does not have the physical makeup or ever shown any interest in being a plus defender. If I’m David Griffin, I refuse to take this guy in any trade for AD. I think making Zion play with this type of player would be harmful for his development and think there is a better chance he is out of the league in two years than a rotation player.
More on the Kevin Knox experience from a blogger who had to watch him all year. Reading the comments is instructive. These people hate watching this guy play.
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2...ts-to-prove-it
While there are other potential trade scenarios that could have merit, I believe a trade with the Knicks has the most upside benefit. Depending on the actual pieces involved in the trade, there isn't much doubt that pairing Barrett with Zion has benefits. I don't care whether they keep Knox, DSJ or other players in the deal or immediately flip them, but I would hang onto Robinson. The key for me are the two unprotected 2021 picks, which combined with the Pelicans own pick, will allow for a lot of flexibility. Ideally, the Pelicans would flip the players in the deal not named Robinson for a veteran point guard, but another forward that can shoot works too.
A trade with Boston could be a fallback option, but I don't see a trade with the Lakers benefitting the Pelicans unless LA trades Ingram and Ball first and the Pelicans like what they get for them.
If I’m Griffin I tell every team intrested in AD go secure the number two overall pick and you can have AD for the number two and other assets and we go forward with Zion and JA . I think the Lakers could send some assets and the number four pick to Memphis for the 2nd pick easily .
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This was posted this morning, talking about Pelicans trading for Ja Morant:
https://www.thebirdwrites.com/2019/5...-knicks-lakers
I can see us going with the Lakers if we know for a fact we can grab Garland/White and Culver/Reddish with the four and 7th pick (if the Lakers acquire it). In this regard, we get two players that can fill the holes in our roster while having a full year to evaluate Ingram’s health. It would be interesting.
I see Boston as the top option with the Knicks second and the Lakers a distant 3rd.
Boston would have to give up a package involving at least Tatum, the Memphis pick, and Smart.
The Knicks have the 3rd pick but not much else outside of Mitchell Robinson and the Mavs picks. The rest of their prospects are trash.
The Lakers don’t have anything outside of the 4th pick. Ingram coming off a blood clot as well as being so-so up to this point, and being a RFA after the season. Ball is injury prone and has a loud mouth father, and Kuzma is solid at best.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The reason I like the Knicks deal is getting Barrett with Zion at the same time. If they are as close as one would think, that would be the best way to keep both those guys here for their whole careers. They will likely only get closer and closer. I wish they would of won the title together this year. If I would of known we had a shot at both I wouldn’t of been pulling for UCF(lol, what a game). Try to sign Kemba and make a run at it. Or trade Jrue for a couple more young players and build through the draft the next couple years.
C: Robinson, Okafor
PF: Zion,
SF: Barrett, Knox
SG: Jrue, Moore
PG: Kemba, Smith
Or
C:Robinson
PF: Zion
SF: Knox
SG: Barrett
PG: Smith
Hope AD stays hurt all year and we have a really rough year with Zion & RJ averaging 30 a game lol. Maybe we get lucky again in the lottery or we trade our two 1sts to get up in the draft for the best point guard, shooting guard, or small forward to hopefully be our 3rd piece of a big 3.
Or we trade with Boston if AD will want to sign there long term cause that will be the only way we get a great deal from them. Supposedly he will sign with the Lakers or Knicks, but not sure about Boston.
What you have to realise is that there may not be three options here.
The way you've presented it there makes it look like the options are: 1) trade AD for these things, or 2) Keep AD.
That's not the choice that's being made here. The choice is 1) Trade AD for these things, 2) possibly keep AD, 3) lose AD for absolutely nothing.
Griffin will know after the meeting coming up, but it's possible that option 2 doesn't exist. IN that case, the choice is 1) Make the best trade for AD you can, or 2) Lose him for nothing.
In that case, you make a trade 100% of the time, even if it's not the perfect trade. You will almost never get 1-to-1 return for an MVP candidate.
I have not presented it this way at all. As you have somewhat alluded to, the meeting between Griffen and AD is forthcoming. Coming out of that meeting, we will know whether or not option #2 is actually an option at all.
If Davis is willing to sign a max contract--and I believe strongly he has to agree to an extension to avoid a trade--then you move forward with him. If he hedges on signing an extension--opting to remain on the team short-term while taking a wait-and-see approach--then you wisely trade him because you lose leverage the closer he gets to free agency next summer.
Yes, certainly, you try to make the best trade you possibly can. I do not disagree. But that does not mean that the potential trade scenarios have not been lackluster. The most intriguing aspect of the Knicks offer is reuniting RJ Barrett and Zion and the potential of securing the unprotected 2021 draft pick from the Mavs. This could very well be your best offer although to me--and it is only an opinion--it would look a helluva more attractive if the Knicks were sitting in the #2 spot where the Pels could secure Morant. But this deal might be the most enticing.
Then you have the Lakers. I do not understand what is so good about their offer. That team is in shambles and cannot win with the terrible young talent that we should now agree to accept in return for Davis? I do not like their assets whatsoever. Ingram is about to fall apart, the #4 pick in a shallow draft is not making me jump and down, and I do not think we want Lonzo any more than his father does not want him to be here. Kuzma is good but not elite. In fact, if Griffen's price is an elite young talent, please show me who in the Lakers' haul fulfills that part of the calculus.
Finally, I do like Tatum a lot despite his struggles in the playoffs. But word on the street is Ainge might not want to trade him if he feels that Kyrie won't return. But let's say he feels desperate to add AD and trades Tatum. Then what? The #14 and #20 picks are not the kind of haul many expected when just two years ago everyone raved about all the draft picks the Celtics had. This is what even causes me some pause about the Mavs 2021 pick--things can change quickly. In any case, maybe you get Smart and Brown and it is decent but not the kind of thing that makes me jump up and down.
So in the end, if you are forced to trade AD, then you have to take one of these offers or whatever best offer is there even if it is IMPERFECT. But right now as we all speculate on this, and while we do not know if Griffen will convince AD to return, I am not to keen on a lot of the potential trade scenarios I have heard.
I agree that it's the most enticing, and I also agree that it would be better if they had better stuff. I think that's true for all trades though: they are more attractive if they have better assets. I'm higher than you on Robinson though. I think his ceiling is Rudy Gobert level talent. Obviously that's a long shot and he may never reach that ceiling, but it's definitely attractive to me.
You and I both :hihi: I genuinely think the Lakers deal is awful. Won't catch me disagreeing there.
I'm pretty keen on the Knicks trade. I think #3, Robinson, and the Dallas picks are a legitimately attractive haul, and I think you could probably flip DSJ for something else later too, though exactly what I'm not sure. Obviously no trade is perfect in this kind of scenario, but that's one that wouldn't make me feel sick.
Can you point me to a decent source for the idea that Ainge is suddenly not open to trading Tatum? All we've heard all year is that basically everyone is on the table, and even some recent reports from the last two weeks or so have said that Ainge is still open to trading for AD whether Kyrie stays or not. In that case, I'd be curious about contradictory reports.
As for the Mavs pick, I think that depends on a lot of factors. Luka is a really special talent, but Porzingis has been seriously injured for a long time, and his off-court life has been crazy recently. I don't see him returning at all-star level, and if he doesn't then the Mavs may be in trouble: they aren't known for their ability to attract free agents.
Really would love to get Ja. Even a bit of an overpay (whatever that is), it would be nice. I wonder if that's something our FO is thinking about exploring. So, I like the idea of a three-way (don't we all :p).
An ideal scenario would be a 3 team trade.
Boston: AD & Avery Bradley (or just AD)
Memphis: Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, pick 14 & 20 in the draft (maybe 23 too)
Pelicans: Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, & Memphis’ #2 to select Ja Morant
C: Okafor, Williams
PF: Zion
SF: Tatum
SG: Jrue, Smart
PG: Morant
That would be so sick!! Smart as our 6th man. Don’t know if this would even be possible, but it’s highly unlikely anyway. A Jrue & Smart defensive backcourt would be sick
Memphis still has Conley under contract for 2 years, so they don’t need Ja really lol.
We would probably have to take Al Horford though which would make us have to switch Brown for Smart. I don’t know how it works with contracts and BS
C: Horford
PF: Zion
SF: Tatum
SG: Jrue, Smart
PG: Morant
That team could make the playoffs for sure
Is Ja Morant that much better of a prospect than RJ Barrett? I don’t watch much ncaa basketball. I had the impression at least early on that most thought they were fairly equal?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I doubt those late picks would be enough. I’d try this
Boston: AD & Moore
Memphis: Jaylen Brown, pick 14 & 20, and their pick from Boston back
Pelicans: Jayson Tatum, Hayward, pick 22 & Memphis’ #2 to select Ja Morant
(I’d like to flip Hayward to the suns for Warren and Bridges and if not get their number 6 to take Culver or trade for Beal)
Morant, Elfrid
Jrue, Frank
Tatum, Bridges
Zion, TJ Warren
Okafor, Woods
LAKERS: get AD
GRIZZLIES: get 4th pick of draft, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram. PELS 2nd round pick
PELS get 2nd pick, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart LAKERS 2021 and 2023 1st rounders
Draft Ja Morant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Much? No. I don't think so. RJ was the one people thought would be the consensus #1 pick when the season started. His talent is considerable. Great handle, good athleticism, great slasher, a decent rhythm shooter while sporting a 6'7" frame that looks like a true 6'7" and not those phantom ones that get like an inch and a half from the shoes. He moves fluidly and the ball doesn't seem to stall in his hands. He's either attacking, making a pass, or shooting it when he gets the ball.
Ja Mortant has all of those qualities, while being a better athlete...but his frame is so slight it worries me. But he and De'Aaron Fox are pretty much identical in terms of build and athleticism, so it's no great worry. But when things are kinda even. I tend to lean towards Morant for this team though.
https://youtu.be/mkXK4Js7rNg
We should trade with LAKERS.
I believe the Bulls will give LA 7th pick for Lonzo Ball. This is a trade idea....
PELS receive 4th pick(Garland), Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, 7th pick via Chicago. PELS draft Center Jaxson Hayes or Bol Bol.
BULLS receive: Lonzo Ball
LAKERS receive AD
I have heard that rumor reported as well (Bulls sending #7 to the Lakers). If true, is this possible?-
Bulls - Ball
Lakers - AD
Pels - #2, Ingram, Kuzma, Wagner
Grizzlies - #4, #7, Hart
This would give the Pels Zion and Morant. We would be gambling on Ingram's health, but it could pay off.
I don't know if I'd take it. I'm not as high on Morant as a lot of people (I like him, but I have him behind RJ), Ingram's health is such a huge gamble I want no part of it, Kuzma is a whatever player and Wagner is a nothing. Why would I take this instead of taking the NY trade and getting RJ, who most people agree is roughly on a level with Morant, and Robinson who actually shows signs of being good and doesn't have the health risks someone like Ingram carries?
It's not just gambling on Ingram's health. It's a no win situation with Ingram. He's a RFA after next season. Either he balls out and we are forced to match a big contract while still only being 1 year removed and always the lingering issue of his condition or he plays bad enough that he doesn't command a large contract and he will have been a waste in the AD trade.
Ask yourself this: What could the Lakers get for Ingram from other teams? Do you think anyone else is giving up much value at all for him? Nope. So why do people want him to be the 2nd best piece from an AD trade? Simply doesn't make sense.
All depends on how Griffin and staff feel about Ingram as well as Morant and Barrett. I agree that I am not big on taking a risk on Ingram, but there were rumors (before the blood clot issue) that Griffin was high on Ingram. It is all a mystery right now as we do not know how Griffin and staff feel about the draft choices after Zion or the individual potential young trade assets such as Robinson, DSJ, Knox, Tatum, Brown, Ingram, etc.
As far as I'm concerned at this point, if we end up with Ingram at all it has to be as a cheap throw in piece. He cannot be the first, second, or even third most important thing in an AD deal. He's just not been good enough to warrant anything like the risk he presents.
At his current value, Ingram is definitely a piece you want. The blood clot only serves to lessen his value and because he's a Laker, he's getting downgraded probably more than he should. Ingram has a ton of upside, was playing good basketball prior to blood clot, and as mentioned is a RFA, which isn't completely a bad thing; we always have last call on matching.
I'd love to take the risk w/him, but I agree that if he's the second biggest piece and we're not getting a boatload of picks back, something seems off.
There's far more ways to get Morant or RJ Barrett than doing a deal with the Lakers. Any deal that you can get with Lonzo you can get with Tatum and better pieces too. Heck I bet Brown has similar or better value than Lonzo. Or just do the trade directly with the Knicks for Barrett. How the Pels feel about Morant and Barrett are irrelevant to judging Ingram.
Ingram as he currently is with his current contract simply cannot be the 2nd "best" piece in an AD trade. I'd lay money on it that Griffin feels this exact same way. Again, look at his value around the league. What team is giving up anything for him outside of some Pels fans thinking he should be a core piece to the AD deal.
Wow, Brandon Ingram is better than any player I’ve heard mentioned in any trade for AD. I am really surprised that y’all think he’s not worth it. He’s definitely better than Tatum. It’s not even close in my opinion. If he has a great season then that’s FANTASTIC! We want to resign him and be set at SF. The kid shot nearly 50 percent from the field. He’s very skilled and has potential to be an all star.
https://youtu.be/aNisYMJQKUg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There's a part of me that wonders if doing a deal w/Lakers isn't the clear best route -- I mean if they include the youngsters of our choice, and all their future picks. That front office is laughably bad. In a few years, those picks could be worth a ton. Remember that LeBron is old and age can hit you all at once. Not to mention injuries. AD himself is injury prone and isn't the type of guy who is going to go out and recruit for you. They can easily find themselves in a couple years with an old LeBron and a maxed out AD on their books leaving them no room for anything. Plus they won't have the draft picks to help them. Plus the picks in the mid to late lottery now carry more value. If the Lakers say 'F it, lets go for it' I'm not sure this isn't a sure-fire win for Pelicans.
We are talking about a front office who after signing LeBron went out and got Rajon Rondo, Lance Stephenson, and JaVale McGee.