Pels Off season thread

Don’t disagree. An NBA “depth chart” is just a rough approximation of projected roles / minutes for players. Here what I’m saying is that I hope the Pels prioritize developing their young guys over giving minutes to Temple and Sato, I think Graham is a viable starter at PG and has upside at that position, I don’t think NAW projects as a lead guard and should play the vast majority of his minutes off ball, I think it’s possible Jones may end up being a better option to spell Zion than either Hart or Hayes due to his defensive versatility, ball skills and basketball IQ and I think he and Murphy can be in a line up together with Marshall despite the usual reluctance to play young guys because all three are much more mature players than rookies we’ve previously drafted or signed. I also hope that we are willing and able to go 10 deep more often this season as I think saving the wear and tear on the starters is worth the trade off over the course of a long regular season. The playoffs are a different matter.

I agree that Kira will backup Graham although I think Tomas Satoransky is the better option provided he is still here and has not traded. Also, I continue to hold out hope that BI will get some run at, what has heretofore been known as, the '2'.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Dept Charts are more for football IMO. In a game that is positionless, especially in staggered lineups, I think its more productive to imagine rotations. So, what is the...

Starting Lineup:

Staggered Lineup #1 (5 min mark of 1st to the end of the quarter)

Staggered Lineup #2 (Beginning of the 2nd quarter lineup)

Finishing lineup

Usually teams go 9 deep. Maybe 10 at the most. And when you do that exercise, I think it is pretty to see that a "backup PF" isnt as needed as when you do the football style depth chart

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that is all well and good, but a "depth chart" is utilized mostly when it comes to injuries etc..... no different in NBA than NFL as needing to recognize who replaces player A if he goes down/out for some reason.... all dynamics can change then....

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Dept Charts are more for football IMO. In a game that is positionless, especially in staggered lineups, I think its more productive to imagine rotations. So, what is the...

Starting Lineup:

Staggered Lineup #1 (5 min mark of 1st to the end of the quarter)

Staggered Lineup #2 (Beginning of the 2nd quarter lineup)

Finishing lineup

Usually teams go 9 deep. Maybe 10 at the most. And when you do that exercise, I think it is pretty to see that a "backup PF" isnt as needed as when you do the football style depth chart

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It?s just quicker and more aesthetically pleasing to break it down into positions when discussing the roster. I agree we don?t necessarily need a back up 4. I think Murphy would honestly be fine against most backup 4s besides like Kanter or someone like that. So would Naji or Herb.

If it was between Lauri and Buddy, give me Buddy all day. His value will just continue to rise. I have no doubt we could get a first for him after the season from a contender if we want it. Or we could just keep him and have crazy spacing and a bad defense.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

It?s just quicker and more aesthetically pleasing to break it down into positions when discussing the roster. I agree we don?t necessarily need a back up 4. I think Murphy would honestly be fine against most backup 4s besides like Kanter or someone like that. So would Naji or Herb.

If it was between Lauri and Buddy, give me Buddy all day. His value will just continue to rise. I have no doubt we could get a first for him after the season from a contender if we want it. Or we could just keep him and have crazy spacing and a bad defense.

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Why do we need to be quick? Is the regular season coming up tomorrow?

You guys could do it this way, I wont stop you. But its not how coaches think of rotations at all. Its not like we do 5 man unit swaps, or that the same guy gets subbed in for the same guy every time (the backup PF gets subbed in for the starting PF) -- so like I said, go ahead and do it the simple, aesthetically pleasing way. But if you want to really see where the team has needs, think more about lineups than depth charts

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Why do we need to be quick? Is the regular season coming up tomorrow?

You guys could do it this way, I wont stop you. But its not how coaches think of rotations at all. Its not like we do 5 man unit swaps, or that the same guy gets subbed in for the same guy every time (the backup PF gets subbed in for the starting PF) -- so like I said, go ahead and do it the simple, aesthetically pleasing way. But if you want to really see where the team has needs, think more about lineups than depth charts

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Most of the time for me it’s just a way to count your guys. I think most people on here are smart enough to understand team needs, and usually the roster breakdown is a small piece of a bigger point so I don’t necessarily want to spend the time to fully break it down. I’ll save that for when the roster is complete and we have some sort of lineup thread.

Jahmius Ramsey looks pretty good for the Kings so far. He was a second round pick for them last year but he had first round talent (some said lottery talent). With Fox and Haliburton as starters and Mitchell as your backup 1, Hart makes so much more sense for that team than Buddy.

I dont think ita Buddy vs Hart, if I am them. Its Buddy vs all the possible things I could get from the other 29 teams. And thats what is hard to know - what are their other options? We have discussed a Hart for Buddy related swap with them for almost two weeks now. If they really loved the idea, why hasnt it been agreed to yet? Would have had to take back even less salary if they put it in the Memphis deal. Unless they really like Satoransky for some reason

I'd assume it has to do with finding a third team to take Sato, which now obviously we have to wait 15 more days or whatever. It seems like the preference is to trade for Buddy via matching salaries in order to hang on to that TPE for the deadline. We saved that TPE by not including Hield in the Memphis deal, if I'm not mistaken.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I dont think ita Buddy vs Hart, if I am them. Its Buddy vs all the possible things I could get from the other 29 teams. And thats what is hard to know - what are their other options? We have discussed a Hart for Buddy related swap with them for almost two weeks now. If they really loved the idea, why hasnt it been agreed to yet? Would have had to take back even less salary if they put it in the Memphis deal. Unless they really like Satoransky for some reason

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Wouldn't Hart have to agree to Sacramento? I could see a world where that doesn't happen because Hart won't agree

He wants Sacramento. Still close with Gentry and Luke. Was leaking our family business to them all year. Part of the reason he fell out of favor

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He wants Sacramento. Still close with Gentry and Luke. Was leaking our family business to them all year. Part of the reason he fell out of favor

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I see. I guess it's just hard for me to picture anyone wanting to be in Sacramento in much the same way the rest of the NBA world looks at NOLA :hihi:

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He wants Sacramento. Still close with Gentry and Luke. Was leaking our family business to them all year. Part of the reason he fell out of favor

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And sticking up for Bledsoe in the locker room right?


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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He wants Sacramento. Still close with Gentry and Luke. Was leaking our family business to them all year. Part of the reason he fell out of favor

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Wait, Josh was running his mouth to Sac? Not shocked, if true, but who did he fall out of favor w/ SVG or Griff?

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

And sticking up for Bledsoe in the locker room right?


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Interesting, the players did like Bled, at least they stood up for him. Maybe their dislike for SVG was just stronger than understanding Bled was horrible and led to us losing plenty of games. It's also funny b/c it seems SVG really liked Bled too (at least he played him all the time which made you think he liked him over other players).

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He wants Sacramento. Still close with Gentry and Luke. Was leaking our family business to them all year. Part of the reason he fell out of favor

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Oh wow... didn't know it was that much drama with him, and he was the only person that I liked from the LA trade.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Oh wow... didn't know it was that much drama with him, and he was the only person that I liked from the LA trade.

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You don't like Brandon Ingram?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He wants Sacramento. Still close with Gentry and Luke. Was leaking our family business to them all year. Part of the reason he fell out of favor

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Why would he do that? Why would they even care?

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Originally Posted by ColoradoCajun

Why would he do that? Why would they even care?

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Poster on here shared an article or tweet that there were rumblings that Griffin was micromanaging SVG with the rotations. Apparently, that info came from Gentry or someone close to him. Basically, a way for Gentry to justify why things didn?t go well for him and bash the person who fired him.

At least that?s what I remember from the post.


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You guys would be shocked how 'Gossip Girl' the entire league is. From players to coaches to execs. My theory is that the vast majority of execs and agents were nerds/losers, etc in their early years and nobody ever cared about what they have to say. Now, they have all the hot gossip and love that people hear what they want to say. They all chatter like housewives.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You guys would be shocked how 'Gossip Girl' the entire league is. From players to coaches to execs. My theory is that the vast majority of execs and agents were nerds/losers, etc in their early years and nobody ever cared about what they have to say. Now, they have all the hot gossip and love that people hear what they want to say. They all chatter like housewives.

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Listen to Hollinger and Duncan for 5 minutes

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

He wants Sacramento. Still close with Gentry and Luke. Was leaking our family business to them all year. Part of the reason he fell out of favor

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Are the Kings the main focus for a deal with him now or are they still considering re-signing him? If he goes to Kings, do you expect it would just be for a TPE or are they really trying to work it into a deal for Buddy?

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You guys would be shocked how 'Gossip Girl' the entire league is. From players to coaches to execs. My theory is that the vast majority of execs and agents were nerds/losers, etc in their early years and nobody ever cared about what they have to say. Now, they have all the hot gossip and love that people hear what they want to say. They all chatter like housewives.

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my wife once told her friends that she had made a New Years resolution to never, ever repeat gossip again.... she then alerted them that they better listen very closely the first time....

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Are the Kings the main focus for a deal with him now or are they still considering re-signing him? If he goes to Kings, do you expect it would just be for a TPE or are they really trying to work it into a deal for Buddy?

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No clue where it stands now. I tweeted Aug 2nd we were talking with Kings about a S&T with Hart (first, by the way, but thats another matter for those who continue to say I am full of you know what) - and talks started before the 2nd. So, they have talked for close to two weeks now and no resolution. Every trade is far less likely to happen than it is to happen. All I know at this point. It will either happen or it wont

I would love to know the Kings true feelings about Harrison Barnes. That’s a guy that can bring shooting, as well as not taking other things off the table. Good defender, rebounder, etc. I’m not sure it’s a great defensive fit with the starting lineup (essentially having Ingram play like a 2 guard) and I imagine the Kings would want a fair amount more. But I’ve always liked Barnes.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You guys would be shocked how 'Gossip Girl' the entire league is. From players to coaches to execs. My theory is that the vast majority of execs and agents were nerds/losers, etc in their early years and nobody ever cared about what they have to say. Now, they have all the hot gossip and love that people hear what they want to say. They all chatter like housewives.

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Not really, 90% of work environments are like this and honestly it's the men who gossip more than women in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

I would love to know the Kings true feelings about Harrison Barnes. That’s a guy that can bring shooting, as well as not taking other things off the table. Good defender, rebounder, etc. I’m not sure it’s a great defensive fit with the starting lineup (essentially having Ingram play like a 2 guard) and I imagine the Kings would want a fair amount more. But I’ve always liked Barnes.

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He gets such a bad rep for the 2016 collapse.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

I would love to know the Kings true feelings about Harrison Barnes. That’s a guy that can bring shooting, as well as not taking other things off the table. Good defender, rebounder, etc. I’m not sure it’s a great defensive fit with the starting lineup (essentially having Ingram play like a 2 guard) and I imagine the Kings would want a fair amount more. But I’ve always liked Barnes.

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Barnes would be a nice get, but I suspect they value him more (and he has less guaranteed money).

I have a friend who absolutely loves Barnes and never understands why he doesn't excel more in the game b/c he has all the tools to be a superstar.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

You don't like Brandon Ingram?

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Not at first... I didn't like any Laker lol. But I really liked Hart's heart. Seemed he played with more "Want to" than those other guys that we got.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

Not at first... I didn't like any Laker lol. But I really liked Hart's heart. Seemed he played with more "Want to" than those other guys that we got.

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Can promise you Ingram works harder than anybody on the team. Whether he works on the right aspects of his game is a different question, but the amount of hours that he puts into his craft is completely insane

I waver back and forth as to whether Buddy is a good addition to this team. As I mentioned earlier, if they can somehow take the route of waiting the 15 days in order to match Buddy's salary with Hart and Sato, I am in favor. That allows you to retain the flexibility of the TPE for later in the season. Buddy is good and would continue to be good on this team.

I don't think I would be happy if they used the TPE prior to the start of the season. They can use the Melli one, I guess.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

I waver back and forth as to whether Buddy is a good addition to this team. As I mentioned earlier, if they can somehow take the route of waiting the 15 days in order to match Buddy's salary with Hart and Sato, I am in favor. That allows you to retain the flexibility of the TPE for later in the season. Buddy is good and would continue to be good on this team.

I don't think I would be happy if they used the TPE prior to the start of the season. They can use the Melli one, I guess.

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Worry not - you cant use the TPE for Buddy any way. His salary is too much for it and you cant combine the TPE with salary (again, 500 years) to make money work. So, the only way the Pels get Buddy is Sato, Hart, etc. TPE wont be involved

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Worry not - you cant use the TPE for Buddy any way. His salary is too much for it and you cant combine the TPE with salary (again, 500 years) to make money work. So, the only way the Pels get Buddy is Sato, Hart, etc. TPE wont be involved

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Do you think the door is still open to Hart re-signing with Pels (for something other than QO) or is he/Pels just trying to find him a landing spot?

If they cant find something of value, of course they will keep him and at that point it becomes a convo about how to extract value. Him returning on QO means it is harder to use him for big matching salary and he will have a no trade clause essentially. Id love to go to him and say - we will give you 10 mil for this year but you cant veto a trade, no matter where it is to. Thats a fair compromise IMO

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Worry not - you cant use the TPE for Buddy any way. His salary is too much for it and you cant combine the TPE with salary (again, 500 years) to make money work. So, the only way the Pels get Buddy is Sato, Hart, etc. TPE wont be involved

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Yes I know. I was stating in general that I would prefer not to use the TPE prior to the season. Buddy might be the only way we can add a starting caliber player without doing so

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Yes I know. I was stating in general that I would prefer not to use the TPE prior to the season. Buddy might be the only way we can add a starting caliber player without doing so

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You can aggregate Sato for other purposes. Dragic comes to mind (but again, I dont think he wants to come here). I also would be interested to know how much Dallas likes Lauri. Enought to part with Powell? Because I would use the exception to take him on, and even be happy to send some solid 2nds to Chicago in the 3-way deal.

I am also very happy to go into the season with this roster. It always feels like you have to solve roster problems immediately, but sometimes it is great to wait, gather more info on your own guys and wait for buyers (and non-sellers) to become sellers

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

You can aggregate Sato for other purposes. Dragic comes to mind (but again, I dont think he wants to come here). I also would be interested to know how much Dallas likes Lauri. Enought to part with Powell? Because I would use the exception to take him on, and even be happy to send some solid 2nds to Chicago in the 3-way deal.

I am also very happy to go into the season with this roster. It always feels like you have to solve roster problems immediately, but sometimes it is great to wait, gather more info on your own guys and wait for buyers (and non-sellers) to become sellers

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Yea personally I just think Hield is going to be so intriguing to teams come the deadline and next offseason. I'd take Powell over Sato though. Or Kleber for that matter

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Can promise you Ingram works harder than anybody on the team. Whether he works on the right aspects of his game is a different question, but the amount of hours that he puts into his craft is completely insane

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My bad I should have said that was how I felt at the time of the trade. When the trade was even being discussed I had hoped we got hart in the deal. That's why I started my last comment with "Not at first".

But now after a couple years I see what's up with BI and I can rock with him. later for Hart.

This Sato slander is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by pelafanatic

Yea personally I just think Hield is going to be so intriguing to teams come the deadline and next offseason. I'd take Powell over Sato though. Or Kleber for that matter

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Kleber would be nice. Would prefer Lauri over Powell though.

Nice article comparing Jonas Valanciunas and Steven Adams. It's from a pro Grizzly standpoint but breaks down their games well.

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/202...anciunas-adams

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

This Sato slander is unacceptable.

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Please sell him on me.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Please sell him on me.

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Low volume on threes but historically fairly efficient at them, excellent FT shooter (at least 81% for the last 3 years running) who actually draws them at a reasonable rate. His teams have been better with him on the floor than off every single year of his career (not one year of negative on/off splits so far).

Excellent finisher at the rim (league average rim %age is about 65%, he shot 77% at the rim last year) who cuts well off ball and can create for himself a little on ball. His problem is largely inconsistency with regards to that.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a star and if you had to rely on him to start you're probably not in a great spot with regards to guards and ball-handlers but as a backup guy or like your 9th man he's really solid.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Low volume on threes but historically fairly efficient at them, excellent FT shooter (at least 81% for the last 3 years running) who actually draws them at a reasonable rate. His teams have been better with him on the floor than off every single year of his career (not one year of negative on/off splits so far).

Excellent finisher at the rim (league average rim %age is about 65%, he shot 77% at the rim last year) who cuts well off ball and can create for himself a little on ball. His problem is largely inconsistency with regards to that.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a star and if you had to rely on him to start you're probably not in a great spot with regards to guards and ball-handlers but as a backup guy or like your 9th man he's really solid.

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He's also by all accounts a pretty good defender. Disruptive with his length. Again, he's not a star, but he was a guy that a lot of Pels fans/writers wanted to target last season in order to bring in just a solid depth piece

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Low volume on threes but historically fairly efficient at them, excellent FT shooter (at least 81% for the last 3 years running) who actually draws them at a reasonable rate. His teams have been better with him on the floor than off every single year of his career (not one year of negative on/off splits so far).

Excellent finisher at the rim (league average rim %age is about 65%, he shot 77% at the rim last year) who cuts well off ball and can create for himself a little on ball. His problem is largely inconsistency with regards to that.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a star and if you had to rely on him to start you're probably not in a great spot with regards to guards and ball-handlers but as a backup guy or like your 9th man he's really solid.

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So, what I'm hearing is we shouldn't be looking to move him, unless it's for a clear upgrade.

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Originally Posted by DarkHornet

So, what I'm hearing is we shouldn't be looking to move him, unless it's for a clear upgrade.

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The use in moving him for a big, even if not a clear upgrade, would be to allow for additional developmental minutes for Kira, Trey, Naji, and Herb. Every minute Sato plays is a minute one of those guys doesn't. It's not a Buddy situation. I think Buddy raises your ceiling and can help Zion develop further into "Point Zion" by providing the necessary spacing for him to continue to develop his dribbling and passing abilities. Sato is just not going to screw up, which is a necessary skill if you want a higher floor, but again it hinders your ability to develop the young guys a bit.

When can Hart and Sato be combined in a trade for Buddy? When does that window close?

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

When can Hart and Sato be combined in a trade for Buddy? When does that window close?

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End of this month. The window would close whenever the trade deadline is, in February or March

I think they should keep Sato. He provides them insurance for all of the back court and can play wing if he has to. That’s the kind of player the Pels lacked for years. One injury and the season is over for the last decade. Sato is not going to lose a team games.