2024 Offseason Thread

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Ingram almost carried us to a victory over the Suns in Willie Green’s rookie year as a coach. He is not the problem. I do think somebody needs to be moved since Willie is being kept. We need to build a functioning team and Zion is the better option with contract and other things taken into account. We also have Trey Murphy who could replace Ingram. Zion doesn’t have a replacement. It makes sense to move on from Ingram due to his contract. CJ puts us in a bit of a tough spot because we can’t move him. Build a team that can win with and without Zion on the court. Bring in depth that can deal with the regular season and let Zion handle the postseason. That should be the play.

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I agree with this. I think Trey needs to take some accountability and take a huge step forward. He needs to become someone who can score consistently other than taking 7 30ft 3s a game and also create for others. I think he has all the tools needed offensively.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

No someone said they would be a nice fit. I seriously doubt Willie would give him 30 minutes a game.

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Fixed it for you

“Luka believes Dort, Jrue and Herb Jones are the Top 3 perimeter defenders in the league.” ������ pic.twitter.com/QcnbPnq1Ap

— Boot Krewe Media (@BootKreweMedia) May 11, 2024

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

I agree with this. I think Trey needs to take some accountability and take a huge step forward. He needs to become someone who can score consistently other than taking 7 30ft 3s a game and also create for others. I think he has all the tools needed offensively.

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I think that's pretty unfair. Hard to ''take a huge step forward'' when you have random games where you play sub-20 minutes coming off the bench this deep into your career. At some point if you want to see how far a player can go, you have to see how much burden they can take before it crumbles, and we've rarely done that with Trey. He's been second fiddle at his position almost his entire career and we're seeing the effects of that. The growth he started showing at the end of last season was positive, but it was done during an injury-plagued time and it stopped when BI came back into the lineup and he returned to the bench. That's just how it's been.

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Ingram almost carried us to a victory over the Suns in Willie Green?s rookie year as a coach.

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I actually re-watched that Suns series recently and man, people massively over-credit BI for that.

He had two excellent games. We won one of them, lost the other. His other four games were incredibly mid. He didn't ''almost carry us to a victory over the Suns'' - we lost in 6 and he was bad in all of the losses bar one.

That's not me bagging on him either, he was asked to carry a burden he's not meant to carry because he's not that guy and we all know it. He did a great showing as a #2 that just didn't have a #1 there. But can we not revisionist history that series, please.

Edit: just want to be clear, I am not blaming Ingram for that. He did what he could, and in a couple of games, that was a lot, but he was being asked to do more than was reasonable for his level and role on the team. No blame on him for us losing that series either, it's not his fault at all.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Fixed it for you

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Willie is the only coach who’s ever given him 30mpg…..so thanks for incorrecting me.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think that's pretty unfair. Hard to ''take a huge step forward'' when you have random games where you play sub-20 minutes coming off the bench this deep into your career. At some point if you want to see how far a player can go, you have to see how much burden they can take before it crumbles, and we've rarely done that with Trey. He's been second fiddle at his position almost his entire career and we're seeing the effects of that. The growth he started showing at the end of last season was positive, but it was done during an injury-plagued time and it stopped when BI came back into the lineup and he returned to the bench. That's just how it's been.

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This literally happened a whopping 2 times this season. Most games were 28+ and the last time he saw less than 28 was 2/12.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

This literally happened a whopping 2 times this season. Most games were 28+ and the last time he saw less than 28 was 2/12.

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My bad, I should have known not to put a number on it. That is just inviting pedantry.

The point stands, however. We have done nothing to push him to the peak and see how far he can goes. While you set the cutoff at 28 minutes for some bizarre reason, he played under 30 minutes in the majority of games played this season. In fact, he's played under 30 minutes in more than half of his career games, and has come off the bench in well over half of them as well.

The point that this team has done very little to see how far the limits of his play goes, and that he's been relegated to a back-up bench piece behind BI stands. That's a failure in coaching and teambuilding. But well done on finding a small factual inaccuracy and using it to completely duck the entire point.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I think that's pretty unfair. Hard to ''take a huge step forward'' when you have random games where you play sub-20 minutes coming off the bench this deep into your career. At some point if you want to see how far a player can go, you have to see how much burden they can take before it crumbles, and we've rarely done that with Trey. He's been second fiddle at his position almost his entire career and we're seeing the effects of that. The growth he started showing at the end of last season was positive, but it was done during an injury-plagued time and it stopped when BI came back into the lineup and he returned to the bench. That's just how it's been.

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In all fairness though, he has had some great games and has completely disappeared in others. He needs to be more aggressive in getting the ball and making something happen. He spends too much time hanging out at the 3 point line and not even moving. Maybe that is coaching, but it can be frustrating because we know he has talent.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Willie is the only coach who’s ever given him 30mpg…..so thanks for incorrecting me.

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One season though. The other two, he played below his career average with some of his lower mpg in his career.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

One season though. The other two, he played below his career average with some of his lower mpg in his career.

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And it's not just raw minutes either, it's when.

Jonas routinely gets benched in the closing minutes of games even when he's been a driving force in us even being in a position to win. Whether he plays closing minutes or not seems entirely independent to how well he's played. That's got to be irritating.

Especially when he's been a solid FT shooter, an excellent rebounder, and generally efficient - and not very turnover prone either. You'd think if you do all those things and you're a key part of the game being close, you might get to close the game out. Nope. WG benches him regularly.

If I'm him, I'm trying to end my career somewhere that actually appreciates me a little more.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

One season though. The other two, he played below his career average with some of his lower mpg in his career.

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Correct and what was significant about that one season? Zion didn’t play a game. The past two years Zion has played in more games than the season before and Jona’ minute has dropped. That’s telling.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

My bad, I should have known not to put a number on it. That is just inviting pedantry.

The point stands, however. We have done nothing to push him to the peak and see how far he can goes. While you set the cutoff at 28 minutes for some bizarre reason, he played under 30 minutes in the majority of games played this season. In fact, he's played under 30 minutes in more than half of his career games, and has come off the bench in well over half of them as well.

The point that this team has done very little to see how far the limits of his play goes, and that he's been relegated to a back-up bench piece behind BI stands. That's a failure in coaching and teambuilding. But well done on finding a small factual inaccuracy and using it to completely duck the entire point.

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It’s not minor enough to just ignore you made a statement that was completely off base. He has month after month been given increased minutes (remember he came off of a meniscus) and has proven to be inconsistent especially in the playoffs. When he’s on he’s amazing, however someone suggested he can replace BI. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to say in order for him to do that he’s got to completely elevate his game, and not just scoring as well.

Herb may be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, but that goes out the window when Bookers drops 50 on you every game

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Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy

Herb may be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, but that goes out the window when Bookers drops 50 on you every game

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To be fair that is the only player he’s consistently have issues with. Might just be this specific player that’s herb’s kryptonite.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

We get it you hate the coach, but statements like this are just incredibly inaccurate. Jonas has only been here 3 out of his 13 year career and Willie has played him the same if not more than any other coach that came before us. His first year here he played more mpg than he has anywhere else his entire career. What JV is now is a product of being a 2000s big with an old school skill set who hasn?t addapted to the new NBA.

I?ll reiterate there are matchups where he?s a huge favorite and offense should run through him. However more often than not he?s too slow to defend his counterpart and is most affective within 12 feet of the rim. That doesn?t mix well when 1 of your star players operates almost exclusively in the paint and another almost exclusively in the mid range.

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We were talking about Ingram boss. And I don't hate Green, I don't think he's a good coach though.

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Originally Posted by Nichols

We were talking about Ingram boss. And I don't hate Green, I don't think he's a good coach though.

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lol yea completely my fault. I only saw the shorter post that was quoted and bolded and not the entire thing. My bad.

There?s no reason for the Timberwolves to do this but if we can somehow trade a combination of CJ, BI, Herb, 3-4 1st round picks and net a starting roster of:

PG: Dejounte Murray OR Trae Young
SG: Malik Monk OR Klay Thompson in free agency
SF: Trey Murphy
PF: Z
C: KAT

What we need is a point guard with high assist/turnover ratio, in other words a true point guard. CJ and Dyson are below 3, while Jose is at 3.0 (40th in NBA). Jose's numbers are fine for his backup role as defensive dog, but CJ isn't achieving point guard results and his defense is average at best. Trey is best on the team at 3.1, but I don't see him displaying point guard leadership qualities. PG should be our offseason focus.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

lol yea completely my fault. I only saw the shorter post that was quoted and bolded and not the entire thing. My bad.

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Lol.. It's all good.

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Originally Posted by NOEngineer

What we need is a point guard with high assist/turnover ratio, in other words a true point guard. CJ and Dyson are below 3, while Jose is at 3.0 (40th in NBA). Jose's numbers are fine for his backup role as defensive dog, but CJ isn't achieving point guard results and his defense is average at best. Trey is best on the team at 3.1, but I don't see him displaying point guard leadership qualities. PG should be our offseason focus.

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The best Pelicans have looked is with Zion running the point.

Marc Stein reports there's a growing belief league wide the Pelicans will aggressively explore the trade market for Brandon Ingram

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) May 12, 2024

Posting this via Shamit rather than just posting Stein directly because the Stein Line is paywalled and this is the point that actually matters most for us.

There is currently an entire forest fire's worth of smoke about this.

Does it mean we absolutely will trade BI? No. An intention to aggressively explore trades doesn't mean one will actually come up that Griff will find acceptable. But the pieces are clearly on the table. Stein is a big name. Him and Windhorst both have reported this now.

I'm not looking forward to this. We had some gradual improvement over the last few years. Hopefully this means we continue to improve.

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Originally Posted by markid

I'm not looking forward to this. We had some gradual improvement over the last few years. Hopefully this means we continue to improve.

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In terms of regular season wins, we saw some gradual improvement. In terms of post-season success, we're actually in a worse position this year than three years ago. And the team's only about to become vastly more expensive for the same product so, in terms of salary cap we're in a much worse position too.

And there's an argument that while we did improve in terms of regular season wins, so did most of the West - all that means is that there were more bottom feeders to beat up on this year than last, and next year probably won't be the same. In terms of the quality of play, we arguably didn't improve in the regular season either.

REPORT: The Pelicans are interested in moving into the top of this year’s draft, per @ScoopB.

“Pelicans believe that there are a few guys at the top of this draft they can pair with Zion Williamson to elevate them to the next level.” pic.twitter.com/KQyBdCaE9z

— Legion Hoops (@LegionHoops) May 12, 2024

Feels very Trade BI, future picks, and salary to the Hawks for Trae Young and the right to draft Alexandre Sarr to me.

Edit: it is Scoop B so y'know, grains of salt folks, but still.

Interesting. I mean offensively Trae and Zion would be amazing, but I dread thinking of the defense.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

REPORT: The Pelicans are interested in moving into the top of this year?s draft, per @ScoopB.

?Pelicans believe that there are a few guys at the top of this draft they can pair with Zion Williamson to elevate them to the next level.? pic.twitter.com/KQyBdCaE9z

? Legion Hoops (@LegionHoops) May 12, 2024

Feels very Trade BI, future picks, and salary to the Hawks for Trae Young and the right to draft Alexandre Sarr to me.

Edit: it is Scoop B so y'know, grains of salt folks, but still.

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If the Pelicans want the 1st pick in the draft. All you have to do is give the guy in that picture up.

Nuggets showing that all you need is a PG + C to win it all

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Interesting. I mean offensively Trae and Zion would be amazing, but I dread thinking of the defense.

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Zion's shown he's able and willing to play NBA defense at a strong level. He spent the second half of last year playing very solid defense. Not sure what the concern is.

I really don't understand all the concern about our defense in any given trade. Our defense has been elite for years and we have won nothing for it. Meanwhile, we've found our offense clunking to a halt whenever Zion hasn't been on the floor the moment other teams try. It's clear that we need to improve, and we can either try and eke out marginal returns on an already elite defense or we can try and patch up some of the massive gaping holes in our broken offense.

The latter seems both easier to achieve and more impactful, and it has the advantage of not playing into our coach's worst habits.

There’s a ‘growing belief’ that Atlanta will consider trading Trae Young this summer, per @JakeLFischer

“There’s a growing belief among rival teams that this summer will also put All-Star Trae Young on the league’s trade block.Perhaps Atlanta will look to attach the top pick to… pic.twitter.com/dhRzlSAxxc

— NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral) May 13, 2024

Everyone: Pels are moving BI
New smoke: Hawks are moving Trae

C'mon Griff

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Zion's shown he's able and willing to play NBA defense at a strong level. He spent the second half of last year playing very solid defense. Not sure what the concern is.

I really don't understand all the concern about our defense in any given trade. Our defense has been elite for years and we have won nothing for it. Meanwhile, we've found our offense clunking to a halt whenever Zion hasn't been on the floor the moment other teams try. It's clear that we need to improve, and we can either try and eke out marginal returns on an already elite defense or we can try and patch up some of the massive gaping holes in our broken offense.

The latter seems both easier to achieve and more impactful, and it has the advantage of not playing into our coach's worst habits.

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Trae, that’s the concern. CJ is already picked on by other teams.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Trae, that’s the concern. CJ is already picked on by other teams.

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A Trae/CJ backcourt would be like a homeless man's version of a Dame/CJ backcourt.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Trae, that’s the concern. CJ is already picked on by other teams.

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I really think people are overstating the worries about Trae's defense.

Yes, he's an individually bad defender. Thankfully though, teams don't play defense individually, but as a unit, and you can cover for a weak link if you have other players who are good and a scheme which accounts for them. Green has earned a lot of criticism, but one thing we should all be willing to credit him for is that he gets the team to buy in on defense and puts out defensively competent lineups in schemes that work for them. He's done that with other bad defenders, and I'm willing to bet he can cover for Trae's defensive downsides well enough that the offense can win the minutes.

And again, even if your defense gets slightly worse (let's say that instead of being 6th in Defensive for another year, we're only 9th because of Trae), that's a loss I'm willing to take if it can mean we no longer have the worst offense of the last decade every time Zion's on the bench.

''CJ's already picked on by other teams'' to the tune of the 6th best defense in basketball. Clearly, that picking is not having nearly as big an impact as you imply.

A Dame / CJ reunion here seems more logical

The Pelicans trading Brandon Ingram is considered inevitable, per @TheSteinLine

“League sources say that Ingram's exit is increasingly viewed by various league observers as an inevitability rather than possibility…A handful of Eastern Conference teams (Philadelphia, Cleveland,… pic.twitter.com/GhdABfcIiT

— NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral) May 13, 2024

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I really think people are overstating the worries about Trae's defense.

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You may be understating it. He is beyond dreadful. He does not even try half the time. He also is very small. If Trae were coming in, CJ would have to be going out. When comparing the two as a locker room presence and teammate, that is a negative move.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

The Pelicans trading Brandon Ingram is considered inevitable, per @TheSteinLine

?League sources say that Ingram's exit is increasingly viewed by various league observers as an inevitability rather than possibility?A handful of Eastern Conference teams (Philadelphia, Cleveland,? pic.twitter.com/GhdABfcIiT

? NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral) May 13, 2024

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Wow it might happen

With how Garland looks and a change of scenery possible

I could see an Ingram for Garland swap

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I actually re-watched that Suns series recently and man, people massively over-credit BI for that.

He had two excellent games. We won one of them, lost the other. His other four games were incredibly mid. He didn't ''almost carry us to a victory over the Suns'' - we lost in 6 and he was bad in all of the losses bar one.

That's not me bagging on him either, he was asked to carry a burden he's not meant to carry because he's not that guy and we all know it. He did a great showing as a #2 that just didn't have a #1 there. But can we not revisionist history that series, please.

Edit: just want to be clear, I am not blaming Ingram for that. He did what he could, and in a couple of games, that was a lot, but he was being asked to do more than was reasonable for his level and role on the team. No blame on him for us losing that series either, it's not his fault at all.

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My point is Ingram isn?t the issue so much as the circumstances. Young inexperienced coach that is still learning, incompetent front office and ownership and lots of other issues have plagued us. It really makes sense now than ever to move on from Ingram. Things just didn?t work out and we already have his replacement.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I really think people are overstating the worries about Trae's defense.

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I don’t think it’s even being properly stated if I’m being honest.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

''CJ's already picked on by other teams'' to the tune of the 6th best defense in basketball. Clearly, that picking is not having nearly as big an impact as you imply.

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Yep no impact at all especially in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Yep no impact at all especially in the playoffs.

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Absolutely, with that matchup there to seek out OKC managed to absolutely kill us to the tune of 10 points worse than their regular season ORtg, and fewer points per game than they've been able to manage against defending champion Nuggets.

Honest to God, the way people talk about that series you'd swear that the issue was that we were getting killed defensively. That wasn't even top 5 as an issue. The defense was fine, they had a ton of trouble scoring reliably, even with that blatantly obvious target to 'pick on'.

Listening to the new From the Wing podcast (hosted by Christian Clark, so grains of salt folks, keep them in mind) and he says this about Stein's reporting on Ingram. Starting at about 21 minutes in.

''Will they run it back next year with all of them? I think the way I put it was that it was a possibility but not an inevitability that one of them gets moved and if one of them gets moved you're probably looking at Brandon Ingram. Marc Stein, who writes an excellent Substack obviously, Marc Stein, very reliable, this was the language he used; ''Ingram's exit is increasingly viewed by various league observers as an inevitability, rather than a possibility''. Basically what Stein is saying is, according to what other people from other teams are telling him, is that it's inevitable that Brandon Ingram gets moved. I thought that was, I made a big note of that. I wrote something about Ingram over the weekend and the thing to know in there is that I have been told there is just not a world where Brandon Ingram gets the full max extension from the Pelicans of $208m over 4 years, $52m in average annual value. There's just not a world where the Pelicans say ''we're going to pay you $52m a year''. From what I heard, maybe there's a willingness for a number smaller than that, but yeah that is all of the stuff I know right now. Marc Stein talks to a lot more people than me, so yeah.''

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Originally Posted by Mount_Zion

Wow it might happen

With how Garland looks and a change of scenery possible

I could see an Ingram for Garland swap

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He's a better option than Young..

Anthony Davis about lose his friend?

I didn't know Bronny's parents were Cavs fans. pic.twitter.com/x1Q2qimS8d

— NBA Memes (@NBAMemes) May 14, 2024

I’m going to guess he has made up his mind

LeBron James gets a standing ovation in Cleveland during Game 4

Forever the King �� pic.twitter.com/lWyRwGNJG3

— NBA Memes (@NBAMemes) May 14, 2024

Lakers interested in Ingram?

https://lakersnation.com/anonymous-g...randon-ingram/

Cavs gave the Celtics a fight without Donovan Mitchell and Jarrett Allen.

They were really out to nail their audition for LeBron. pic.twitter.com/gu5ZU0fuoM

— NBA Memes (@NBAMemes) May 14, 2024

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Lakers interested in Ingram?

https://lakersnation.com/anonymous-g...randon-ingram/

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For Austin Reaves, Rui Hachimura, and the pick we could actively swap to if we wanted already.

Absolute garbage.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Lakers interested in Ingram?

https://lakersnation.com/anonymous-g...randon-ingram/

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They would need to get a third team involved for it to work. As someone who actually watches the Lakers. Rui is a solid player, Auston as well. With that being said, they are role players. Neither on the cusp of being stars.

If people want to get rid of Willie, Griff should draft LeBron, oops, I mean Bronny. Because we know LeBron would fire Willie half way through the season.

Disclaimer: This post was sarcasm for those that missed it.