PELS VS NETS 2-10-18

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

And yet if we make the playoffs by one game, that win will be beyond significant. So rather than cast judgment on the future like some aspiring fortune teller, I'm just going off what has already happened in reality. Which is that we won. It's not a great win, I'm not calling the party supply store for the helium balloons, but it feels like a mediocre win, not a loss.

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Let's keep debating our feelings!

Felt like a loss to me. Felt like a mediocre win to you. I'm less optimistic about this team now than I was before the game. But feel how you want to feel chief!

It's not the best feeling win in the world, but it is worlds away from a loss

And just quietly, the beast that is Mario Hezonja has awoken

Team went to rubbish, and then clawed back the victory. Good for the team morale, helps keep spirits up after putting in the effort. I could see the team spiraling out of control if they lost that. Also good for keeping supporter morale up - while it may have been a reinforcement of the frustrating team aspects they will stay in the 8 with clippers losing tonight I believe. Again, imagine the fans if they had lost this (I'm sure I would have been a part of it haha). A lot of work to do, gotta keep on chugging along.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Let's keep debating our feelings!

Felt like a loss to me. Felt like a mediocre win to you. I'm less optimistic about this team now than I was before the game. But feel how you want to feel chief!

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How could you possibly be less optimistic after this win than if we had lost it?

Holiday somehow ended the game with 22 points. Geez. Last time I looked in the 4th he had 7.

I feel like this Nets fan right now

https://i0.wp.com/gifrific.com/wp-co...ates.gif?ssl=1

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

How could you possibly be less optimistic after this win than if we had lost it?

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Nah... that's not at all what I said.

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Originally Posted by AusPel

It's not the best feeling win in the world, but it is worlds away from a loss

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You guys are silly. How did that Houston win a couple weeks ago feel? How did some of those games against the Warriors that we were really competitive in and the team played great feel?

Even though you'd always rather a win than a loss, sometimes a win feels like a loss and a loss feels like a win. But whatever, maybe that's a unique thing to me. It's my "feeling", not yours!

Wow this thread is toxic right now. May as well be at Tiger Droppings

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Originally Posted by PelicanNation

Jrue is the reason? Man u gotta be kidding, there are game where I admit Jrue balled out but not tnoight. He made a few plays but not a good night

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I'm not talking about the entire game but yes OT he was clutch.. he had 1 bad play you are harping on that was for the final shot. He made clutch baskets to keep us in that game during OT. He wasn't the only one but he played a great OT. Not to mention his defense.

Jrue wins 95% of his drives/postups against his defender. We need to go to that well a lot more often

The TWolces have like 4 more played games then us. We aren't far away from catching them and it's in our control. We had a few bad losses but that happens the best teams and has this season. We have a good group of guys and will hopefully be adding 2 guys that can have a huge impact with Hill/Jackson. Enjoy this playoff battle and pump the brakes on blowing it up and firing everybody. Let's let it play out and not judge what is like 3%-6% of the season.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Nah, you just said the most obvious thing ever: a win is a win.

All I said is it felt like a loss. Not sure how both of those can't be true. Technically that win vs Houston was a win. But what did it feel like? A loss. I don't think it's moping to recognize that this team has serious flaws and problems that might not go away if/when they start next season with a maxed out Boogie sitting on the bench until 2019. Not moping, but nothing positive came out other than a W in the win column. That W will be insignificant when they miss the playoffs by 4 or 5 games if they keep playing the way they're playing.

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This is not true at all. I guarantee you those players feel like they got a damn good win. Did you ever play sports and feel like a win wasn't really a win? If I'm on that team I come away saying "man we can beat anybody if we play like we did in that 1st half. We just ran into what happen to be another NBA team that got hot from 3 and were lucky that we didn't beat them by 50." You don't mope after wins because it took a double OT to beat them. Sure as a fan you may feel that way but it's crazy to say that they feel like they lost lol. How we feel doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25

The TWolces have like 4 more played games then us. We aren't far away from catching them and it's in our control. We had a few bad losses but that happens the best teams and has this season. We have a good group of guys and will hopefully be adding 2 guys that can have a huge impact with Hill/Jackson. Enjoy this playoff battle and pump the brakes on blowing it up and firing everybody. Let's let it play out and not judge what is like 3%-6% of the season.

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I like dat optimism

Updates on Hill and Jackson from the organisation would be helpful

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Originally Posted by AusPel

I like dat optimism

Updates on Hill and Jackson from the organisation would be helpful

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Yes I agree! I don't think they want to say something will happen and have it be delayed with a setback. Fans can't handle stuff like that lol.Would be nice to hear something though.

it what u get when u have no coaching how in the hell do u lose a 28 point lead midway in the 3rd
how many time he call time out and ran a play that did not work how many time they shot the ball with
no players under the goal another year more of the same maybe they shine up the car in summer with
first round pick that right they do not have one
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So is AD a top 5 player in this league? Sometimes I think yes, sometimes I think no

He doesn't have that KI so I can't put him top 5 anymore

You take the win and move on to Detroit. Let’s just survive until the All Star break and hopefully get some guys healthy along with a potential signing from the buyout market. We need the depth.

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Originally Posted by DaFranchise80

You take the win and move on to Detroit. Let’s just survive until the All Star break and hopefully get some guys healthy along with a potential signing from the buyout market. We need the depth.

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Griffin and Drummond must be the best big man duo in the league. Obvs we had the best before Cuz went down. Gonna be hard

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Originally Posted by AusPel

So is AD a top 5 player in this league? Sometimes I think yes, sometimes I think no

He doesn't have that KI so I can't put him top 5 anymore

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He is top 10, but not top 5.

Westbrook
Harden
Steph
KD
Lebron
Greek Freak

Then AD

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

He is top 10, but not top 5.

Westbrook
Harden
Steph
KD
Lebron
Greek Freak

Then AD

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I don't have Westbrook top 5. He is AD Tier for me

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Originally Posted by AusPel

Griffin and Drummond must be the best big man duo in the league. Obvs we had the best before Cuz went down. Gonna be hard

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I'm sure we'll see Okafor playing a good bit to help match Drummond's size/physicality. Would be a pretty big boost to get this win, then hopefully the Lakers game, too.

Then the all-star break, which Pels will benefit from immensely. Rest for AD and Jrue, and everyone, then get Hill back in the rotation adding a solid defender will size and defensive leadership and IQ.

Marco Belli signed with 76'ers. We now have 2 roster spots open. I don't condone the recent criminal charges of Willie Reed, but if he is released by the Bulls as has been rumored, and checks out character and PR wise, then he seems like a good on court fit to help cover the bigger C's.

This game doesn't go into OT if they made 85% of their free throws.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

He is top 10, but not top 5.

Westbrook
Harden
Steph
KD
Lebron
Greek Freak

Then AD

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I don't agree with that list. Westbrook and Greek Freak are not better than AD. Giannis has to make the playoffs before he can be on any list. He's Kevin Love level until he proves anything. Harden is debatable though I might give him the nod.

I see 3 clearly better players, LBJ, Steph, and KD.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I don't agree with that list. Westbrook and Greek Freak are not better than AD. Giannis has to make the playoffs before he can be on any list. He's Kevin Love level until he proves anything. Harden is debatable though I might give him the nod.

I see 3 clearly better players, LBJ, Steph, and KD.

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Giannis has made the playoffs twice (2014-15, and last season 16-17). Sixth seed both times, both 4-2 first round exits.

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Originally Posted by Rheem654

Giannis has made the playoffs twice (2014-15, and last season 16-17). Sixth seed both times, both 4-2 first round exits.

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Touche. I felt like there was something to it. Was it with losing records?

So that moves Giannis to top 10 then for sure.

I just want to know when Gentry turned into Tom Thibodeau from his early Bulls days?

There is about ZERO chance this team makes the playoffs if Gentry can not start trusting other players to give Jrue and AD more rest. Because at this rate they will not be healthy by seasons end, book it. Playing AD nearly the entire second half when you had a 25 point lead at one point was absurd. Especially after he missed 2 free throws at the end of the 3rd and you just go ahead and run him out again. That is when you give AD that extra rest for a run, not run him back out there where he is already gassed and give him a quick minute down the stretch. So of course AD goes 0-5, misses two free throws and him and Holiday turn it over three times.

We are fighting for the 8th seed with the Clipps and Jazz on our tails. Fun times.

And AD is top 7 but not top 5.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Touche. I felt like there was something to it. Was it with losing records?

So that moves Giannis to top 10 then for sure.

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41-41 in the 2014-15 season, and 42-40 last season. So yea, not great, but good enough in the East. He also had pretty good showings in the playoffs from what I remember. Yea I'd say he's up there for sure, probably about near where AD is ranked.

Also, can't see how you wouldn't have Harden as better than AD. Dude does it all, has led his team deep(ish) in the playoffs the last few seasons. And superstar guards can just affect the game more than big men can in today's game. I mean, it's all moot point really, top 15, 10, 7, 5, they all really good.

That's not including Kawahi Leonard. When that guy is healthy he is top 3.

I'd put Harden over AD right now. Mostly because Harden has started to show effort on defense again with CP3 there. Quietly becoming the best post defender amongst guards in the league, which has allowed them to do a lot more switching successfully, and putting a lot more effort on and off the ball.

I don't think I would put Giannis over AD just yet though. But it is hard. The biggest hole in AD's game remains something I am still shocked he hasn't been better at and that is facilitating and assisting. It seemed like he was poised based on the offseason to really make that the next leap in his game. I was frankly expecting a Kawhi Leonard type jump given Cousins presence and the emphasis, and while at times it's there, he and the team have never really embraced it. I think it is also that one aspect of his game holding back him making the teams around him much better like Giannis and the Marc Gasol's/Cousins of the big man world.

I would take LeBron, KD, Curry, Harden, and Kawhi over AD. After that, it becomes rather hard to bump him further down the list. There's no denying AD's talent. But he's a frustrating player to root for at times because the bar for excellence is raised a lot higher for elite talents like him.

I'd take LeBron, KD, and healthy Kawhi over AD. That's it.

AD is top 10. The problem is he doesn't handle the ball as well as other guys you'd put in the top 10, his defense is overrated, and to this point in his career he doesn't appear to make other players better or impact the other team's defensive strategies significantly. With Lebron, Giannis, and KD playing significant minutes at PF, it's debatable whether AD is still the best PF in the game.

Is AD the best Center in the NBA? He was't the best Center on his own team for half the season and avoids guarding other Centers on defense.

AD puts up great stats, but too often it's in a losing effort. He's not a "good stats - bad team" guy per say, but he has literally been a good stats guy on a bad team.

For whatever it's worth, I don't think AD is a first team All NBA lock, especially if Pelicans miss the playoffs.

Seriously laughing at some who think AD is a better player than harden. Harden has had different coaches and trash on his team and still makes playoffs every year. Ad had been once with a really good pool of talent. As much as I love AD there is no way in hell he and harden are in the same stratosphere. Harden KD and lebron are the three best followed by curry

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

AD is top 10. The problem is he doesn't handle the ball as well as other guys you'd put in the top 10, his defense is overrated, and to this point in his career he doesn't appear to make other players better or impact the other team's defensive strategies significantly. With Lebron, Giannis, and KD playing significant minutes at PF, it's debatable whether AD is still the best PF in the game.

Is AD the best Center in the NBA? He was't the best Center on his own team for half the season and avoids guarding other Centers on defense.

AD puts up great stats, but too often it's in a losing effort. He's not a "good stats - bad team" guy per say, but he has literally been a good stats guy on a bad team.

For whatever it's worth, I don't think AD is a first team All NBA lock, especially if Pelicans miss the playoffs.

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AD has to step up his heart. Dude is not a killer on he court. He needs to hate to lose like Westbrook and cp3

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Originally Posted by tthier2

Seriously laughing at some who think AD is a better player than harden. Harden has had different coaches and trash on his team and still makes playoffs every year. Ad had been once with a really good pool of talent. As much as I love AD there is no way in hell he and harden are in the same stratosphere. Harden KD and lebron are the three best followed by curry

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I find this post accurate except for the serious disrespect shown to a 2x league MVP and NBA champion. There’s no way a guy who has vanished in the playoffs in big games like Harden should be above Curry. Harden may have all the skill and ability, but if there was NBA2K rating for flakiness, Harden would be a 100.

And it’s debatable who the best player on the Warriors is, but I give a slight edge to KD because of his stepped up defensive ability.

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Originally Posted by tthier2

AD has to step up his heart. Dude is not a killer on he court. He needs to hate to lose like Westbrook and cp3

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This "AD has no heart or killer instinct" tripe is getting monotonous . & I call bullcrap. Hey Smonty, here come the faux nonverbal communication experts. That Tim Duncan fellow Was off the chart with emotion! Right? NOT !
AD is not a naturally boisterous kinda guy. It's not synonymous with "no heart or killer instinct" . Conflation to create the outcome one wants to perceive is a lazy convenient truth. AD has NEVER been on a team completely healthy & the 1st taste he ever got of LEGIT 2nd round possibilities was CRUSHED when Boogie went down. He's 24yrs old & Boogies injury probably annihilated him emotionally. Hopefully he gets over it in time save a playoff run. Then we get Boogie back next year, with Nico & try again.
But the narrative that AD has no heart or killer instinct is horse tripe.

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Originally Posted by tthier2

Seriously laughing at some who think AD is a better player than harden. Harden has had different coaches and trash on his team and still makes playoffs every year. Ad had been once with a really good pool of talent. As much as I love AD there is no way in hell he and harden are in the same stratosphere. Harden KD and lebron are the three best followed by curry

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Harden is a three point chucker guard in a league tailored to three point chucking guards. His exceptional scoring is largely driven by his ability to pathetically worm free throws. You can call that an ability if you want, but I wouldn't. Therefore his only remaining high caliber skill is his playmaking which is largely a result of D'Antoni's system, which pretty much always blows up the assist numbers of the lead guard.

And like all D'Antoni teams, Hardens Rockets appear to be regular season wonders that crumble in the playoffs when the wormlike flopping isn't quite so favoured.

So yeah, I don't rate him above actual elite scorers who get their numbers by actually scoring within the context of an actual moving game, nor do I rate him about players who actually playmake rather than just tossing the ball to someone else who also doesn't mind chucking.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Harden is a three point chucker guard in a league tailored to three point chucking guards. His exceptional scoring is largely driven by his ability to pathetically worm free throws. You can call that an ability if you want, but I wouldn't. Therefore his only remaining high caliber skill is his playmaking which is largely a result of D'Antoni's system, which pretty much always blows up the assist numbers of the lead guard.

And like all D'Antoni teams, Hardens Rockets appear to be regular season wonders that crumble in the playoffs when the wormlike flopping isn't quite so favoured.

So yeah, I don't rate him above actual elite scorers who get their numbers by actually scoring within the context of an actual moving game, nor do I rate him about players who actually playmake rather than just tossing the ball to someone else who also doesn't mind chucking.

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Yeah, you're clearly underselling Harden's skills and production because you don't like the way he plays. Harden elevates the play of those around him at a level AD will never reach. That's why he's the better player.

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Originally Posted by PelsFan2313

Yeah, you're clearly underselling Harden's skills and production because you don't like the way he plays. Harden elevates the play of those around him at a level AD will never reach. That's why he's the better player.

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Sure thing buddy, I'm just a rampant hater.

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Originally Posted by Tinman

This "AD has no heart or killer instinct" tripe is getting monotonous . & I call bullcrap. Hey Smonty, here come the faux nonverbal communication experts. That Tim Duncan fellow Was off the chart with emotion! Right? NOT !
AD is not a naturally boisterous kinda guy. It's not synonymous with "no heart or killer instinct" . Conflation to create the outcome one wants to perceive is a lazy convenient truth. AD has NEVER been on a team completely healthy & the 1st taste he ever got of LEGIT 2nd round possibilities was CRUSHED when Boogie went down. He's 24yrs old & Boogies injury probably annihilated him emotionally. Hopefully he gets over it in time save a playoff run. Then we get Boogie back next year, with Nico & try again.
But the narrative that AD has no heart or killer instinct is horse tripe.

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Well, the easiest way to prove that this narrative is false would be with evidence of AD consistently demonstrating heart and killer instinct. Part of AD’s problem is he’s not a good ball handler or three point shooter, and it’s difficult for someone with his skill set to take over a game. He’s also missed time and left games with tweaks and minor injuries. None of that proves or means he’s soft and a Beta, but we’ve also yet to see evidence that he’s got the heart and alpha mode that some people believe he consistently needs.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Sure thing buddy, I'm just a rampant hater.

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Well that settles that then.

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Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP

Well, the easiest way to prove that this narrative is false would be with evidence of AD consistently demonstrating heart and killer instinct. Part of AD’s problem is he’s not a good ball handler or three point shooter, and it’s difficult for someone with his skill set to take over a game. He’s also missed time and left games with tweaks and minor injuries. None of that proves or means he’s soft and a Beta, but we’ve also yet to see evidence that he’s got the heart and alpha mode that some people believe he consistently needs.

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I'll take it a step further. Even easier to prove is wins which AD doesn't have. I really hated hardens game before but I have to give credit where its due. He curry Durant cp3 and lebron are the horses in this league who can drive up wins with nothing around them. Everyone else is second tier even kawhi

as much as it pains me to say it, ad reminds me of Chris bosh with his game in Toronto. Really good player and state fuller but couldn't carry a team for nothing. Boogie is gonna be needed forever with ad or an attacking guard. Imagine harden and ad...he is the perfect robin.

What hero has the talent and abilities of a batman but the heart of a Robin?

Is AD really Nightwing?

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

What hero has the talent and abilities of a batman but the heart of a Robin?

Is AD really Nightwing?

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Nightwing is one of the best leaders in the DCU. Even Superman and Batman think highly of his ability to command respect despite being younger and less experienced than Batman.

I'd say AD is more like Cyborg or Manhunter. He's got tremendous ability, but he doesn't really have that deadly fire and killer instinct.

You can absolutely win a championship with AD as your best player.. if you surrounded AD/Boogie what Lebron/Love have in Cleveland right now this team would be unstoppable. We need better players top to bottom with another stud player. The whole alpha/beta conversation is just ridiculous with AD.. not to mention how old is he? When did MJ and Lebron win their 1st championship? Put better players around him and we will get better results.. not to mention a good coach wouldn't hurt.

AD is just not your typical superstar. He has a lot of unique quirks to his game.

He requires a different type of approach, but like other dominant big men, once you get those pieces, those teams can be dominant and a matchup nightmare. Like the Spurs were for so long with Tim Duncan as the heart and soul.

Cousins/AD with a Jrue type and a Paul George or a Damian Lillard with a solid set of cohesive role players, like a Mirotic, and a few good guard and wing shooters to stretch the floor, that can play average and above average defense, with the ability to switch, would compete with any team in the league TBH.

Problem is I don't know if the Pelicans will ever be in that position, due to so many accumulated past mistakes, lack of assets and cap space, Cousins injury, and a crunch of a time schedule due to Davis's contract, that will ever allow the room for this franchise to put it all together perfectly.